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Stats: 2,282,180 members, 5,003,998 topics. Date: Thursday, 27 June 2019 at 11:21 AM
|Re: Sango Olukoso by Nobody: 5:21pm On Jul 09, 2015|
This is all fascinating, really.
Anyway, good luck with your new book.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 6:53pm On Jul 09, 2015|
Radoillo:Thanks jare, people like storybooks, they don't know what to ask for in a book, but if we believe our regular stories to be of any worth, we can put our back to it. My Igbo customers always tell me, 'go and bring igbo history, I will buy it' its true, they will, and my mind always call to you guys at such points, you all have the gift but what about the will? Somebody else should do it, who? Then I used to tell them, 'if our Igbo scholars write it, we wont hesitate to bring it to the market'. You have the talent my friends, we all do. What will you do with it when you are young? I've done my part not minding the excruciating task inherent in self publishing.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by Nobody: 7:06pm On Jul 09, 2015|
Now that you mentioned it, I have actually thought seriously of producing an Igbo history book. And I'm almost sure I will...sometime before I die.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 10:09pm On Jul 09, 2015|
Radoillo:No, make the sacrifice, good fortune keep account of all our sacrifices. I know how I felt reading the work of Cyprian Ekwensi (Passport of mallam Ilya) in my formative years to this day. I have not mastered creative writing of such dexterity and maybe never would I, but the joy and sorrow the story gave me makes me believe my life mean something. We can blame whites for just anything what have
|Re: Sango Olukoso by macof(m): 1:27am On Jul 10, 2015|
Arabambi Oko Oya = Arabambi husband of Oya, not Arabambi same as oya
His 3 wives have their home town far away from Oyo-ile or koso, Osun's home is not far from my hometown and we worship her in my lineage, i still remember the oriki, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Sango is Osun.
Oya’s house is still existing till today in Ira, for centuries untouched and kept as a sacred place, you won't find Ose Sango inside
Braiding hair doesn't make a man a woman , the person who made Sango's hair was Oya, his other wives saw this and complained about it - this is a very popular part of the Sango tale
And as 9jacrip already said nobody can say this is the exact way Sango dressed, I have personally seen Baba Mogbas in different styles, what's important and binding is the red colour.
In the old days Ooni wears wrapper, and there's only been one female Ooni
All over southern Nigeria, men wear wrapper. ..absoluteSuccess aren't you Awori? Don't you know how Awori dress? Wrapper it is.
The former regent of Akure Omoba Adetutu Adesida always wear agbada, I guess that makes her a man?
You need to see Olu-iwa celebrations in Ekiti, the priests tie wrapper, does that make them women?
Infact wrappers are what men wear to keep charm in the knots. .learn your yoruba
|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 4:42am On Jul 10, 2015|
My macof, my proposal is this: some of the words coming from the ancient Yoruba are ayinike, meaning 'archytype when chipped'; then there is ayinipada, archytype as feedback. Ayi is a word in circulation, some storytellers picked such words and interpret it and fashion stories that perfectly rhyme with the ayinike from it. Such stories are aroba or ayinipada, not ayinike. I want us to leave ayinipada alone and examine ayinike. That's the only time we will see sense in my nonsense. I want to say the word okoya ('avenger') is what our forebears miscontrue as okoya 'husband of oya'. The Yoruba women usually flatter themselves saying 'nigbati mo siwa ni Sango Ode, kinto di Oya ile' 'when I was still an outgoing Sango, before I became an householder', Oya is part of Sango's credential as 'secessionist' or 'breakaway'. Oya is Ose, that is, 'break-off' or spillover or offender. Now carefully note this: 'won kan nb'Oya ja, Sango loni Seere', meaning 'they were keeping futile malice with Oya, Sango owns the rattle.'
|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 5:58am On Jul 10, 2015|
Moreso, I think our argument is like we are saying a tree is a perfect tree because our father who planted the tree couldn't have made a mistake. But I am arguing that we already have a tree but the structure of that tree has been altered in the period of last re-planting by the error of oversight on the part of our father. The point is, the genetic coding of the tree is still intact in the seed, and it tells us something different that is possible about the tree.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by macof(m): 11:43am On Jul 10, 2015|
so now you know more about Sango than those that have devoted all their lives to Sango and Oya? Those who say Sango husband of Oya
Btw I don't know the word Okoya to mean avenger, I'll rather say Agbesan
It's impossible for a whole cult reformed by Sango to be built on falsehood, and certainly it won't take one who isn't initiated to that cult to identify the falsehood (if any)
So you are completely wrong, good you know no yoruba would support your position, especially not the very keepers of Sango
|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 12:27pm On Jul 10, 2015|
macof:Alright brov, i'm about to yield, I'm not claiming to know more but I only see they mixed it up somewhere and that's a ruse. But before then I want you to tell me how Sango died first, according to the knowledge about Sango that had come to us as Yoruba. As to Okoya, the Yoruba use this often in people's name: Orekoya, Olukoya, Adekoya, Ogunkoya, Onakoya, etc. Infact, did you notice San(go) in AgbeSan?
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 2:22pm On Jul 10, 2015|
Since my background is with the Mama Wata sect I can tell you why ancient male Kings wore dresses and braids.
The Chieftess of the Mama Wata, Mama Zogbe, has an interview she gave a few years back the only one she ever gave. She's not interested in being seen in the media, she states, she is highly involved in living her tradition not promoting it. Anyway this wisdom I share today is hers and not mine. In dawn of the humanity, in Ancient Africa where life and civilization began, primitive man worshipped women as gods. This is well documented even Dr. Charles Finch speaks of this historical fact. Ancient humanity was ruled by women and women were seen as gods because they gave birth to life. Women and not men are the only ones given this great power and awesome responsibility. In the beginning primitive man didn't know that the sperm cell fertilized the egg, well it was known but not well known, so the strong belief was that the woman alone gave birth to human beings. Women were worshipped and the birth of girls were more important than the birth of boy children. Which is reverse in this patriochical dominated world where families pray for boys before they do girls. Women were the rulers of the society, as Queen Mother, anyone having relationship to the Queendom was because they were blood related to the mother. These ancient Africans practiced husbandry, that is several men to one woman, one woman had several husbands. This today would be considered taboo but not so back then and this system survived much longer than the patriochical dominated world and belief system. This system went on for 100,000s of years and the patriochical world is fairly recent, having origins of maybe 15,000 years ago.
Lots of scholar run away from this true human history of women as gods and Queens because they don't won't to be seen promoting women having sex with several men as some would charge that husbandry was whoredom. But being the true holder of the light I don't have such a flaw in my character I promote the entire truth without bias. There are 3 types, those who join evil, those who are passive to evil, and those who are heroes, Heru, and fight to overturn evil which is bias. I can tell you this that those who are heroes are in the extreme few. But back to the topic.
Mama Zogbe went on to say that when men became kings it was a gradual acceptance. At first the men had to wear dresses and put braids in their hair because the people were accustomed to seeing women only as the rulers. All of the land of ancient Kemet now erringly called Egypt was owned by the Queen Mother. The Kabaka of Buganda is now a male, all the Kababas known are males, but the ancient meaning of the word, "Kabaka" is Queen Mother. It took a little digging for me to find this one out. Even the Bugandas don't know anything about this. Queen Mother Sylvia is the true force behind the steady rise of Buganda Kingdom, you've got to study this and you will find out. Queen Quet is the true force behind the rise of Black Nationalism and Pan Africanism in the United States. Majority of the members of the Black Panther Party were women, as is the very radical and extremely civil rights AME Church, where 6 African American women loss their lives to a White Supremacist organized terrorist attack. What people don't know is that women can be strong, political savvy, shrewd and very creative as men rulers.
Women invented agriculture, which is farming herbs and flowers, or plant life. Herbs are the same thing as medicine and food, there is no distinction in African culture or ancient culture worldwide. In ancient Kemet land was owned by the women and in some parts of Africa women still provide much of the food for the family. So since herbs are medicine as well as food, the women also were the first physicians. But no one looks this deeply as I'm giving it to you now. So its quite clear now what the symbol of the Lion means as this is the head of the Sphinx, which was built around 15,000 years ago. It occurred during a time when women were still the rulers and the head of a male lion symbolizes a change in beliefs. But also the system of the lion, as I've pointed out before, the alpha female lion is the boss, the other 2 females lions follow her lead, the alpha male lion is the protector. Well in Ancient Africa this is exactly what went on, women ran the Queendom, the males were head of the army, the workforce etc.
Let me show you how Yoruba stories verify this perception. The story of Obba wanting Sango to love her like he loved Oshun, so she cuts off her ear and puts it in his dish. Sango discovers the ear, becomes angry, chases Obba out of the house, and out of shame she turns into a river. This is the Yoruba mark of the beginning of their head leader becoming a male. Obba was the Queen Mother, the first lady of the Kingdom. With her now being regulated to a lower position means that Sango is elevated, the man is elevated over the woman as the official head of the kingdom. Because if women still held the power that the woman held before what happened to Obba in this story would have never happened. So this story signifies a change in Yoruba culture from matriochical to patriochical.
Is it possible for Sango to be a woman? Yes, because Sango is a spirit, the fiery spirit of Olodumare, the Creator. Sango can embody any individual, man or woman, and several individuals at once. Spirits can be in two places at one time since they don't have to obey the laws of physical creation. Also Orishas aren't really male or female as they don't have physical bodies. We get so caught up in story telling that we forget the Odus are actually stories. Stories are meant to convey a higher truth or principle. But only the wise grasp the true meaning hidden behind the stories.
Going further, husbandry also marks female rulership, and in the practice of husbandry the birth of girls is more important than the birth of boy children. In polygamy, its the opposite, polygamy marks male rulership and the birth of boys is more important than the birth of girls. Its not fixed however, so don't get too caught up in my words but understand the different time perceptions. Living in matriochical times the birth of girls were seen as a blessing to the family as is the birth of boys is seen in our patriochical times.
But the current Alaafin is the living Sango, and any Alaafin coming to the throne of Oyo is the living Sango. This is the same system practiced in Ancient Kemet when each King coming to the throne was considered Heru. Thus Asar dies but is resurrected by Aset/Isis, and lives on in his offspring or potential male inheritors to his throne. And when one of them is crowned he becomes the living Heru. The Oyo system is the same as ancient Kemet all equal respects. The Orishas are the same as the Kemet gods and goddesses in all equal respects. The Ogboni society is the same as the masonic society of Ancient Kemet. West Africans are East Africans and East Africans are West Africans. Arabs and Europeans are invaders who have established a counter revolt against traditional African beliefs.
I am awake and conscious and this fight is not mine as I've lived in Ancient Kemet and Oyo in past lives. This fight is the fight of the younger souls who are struggling to claim your original inheritance in the world of light. Love, Sango.
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|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 3:30pm On Jul 10, 2015|
Great revelation. However, can we ever seperate history from religion?
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 4:13pm On Jul 10, 2015|
If I could separate the history of Africa from religion to show you step by step the truth I would. But you and I know Africa is obsessed with spirituality and religion, its engrained in our DNA.
I believe the historical Sango was a real man, the 3rd Alaafin of Oyo, but the tradition of wearing dresses and braids is taken from the long history of women rulers. That's historical not religion.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by macof(m): 7:08pm On Jul 10, 2015|
I don't think there's any mix up at all, Yoruba ancestors are very intelligent and tho they mix Spirituality with History , it's not so difficult to identify the history in what the yoruba say
You only read too much into Sango's braids and wrapper. ..
All Sango devotees braid their hair but not the male Osun devotees...goes to tell you a lot
Adekoya to me is Ade ko Iya, crown rejects suffering...apply same to the rest
Agbesan , the 'San' there is different from 'Shan' of Sango
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 7:33pm On Jul 10, 2015|
Sango was the Alaafin, the paramount King, Oshun was a concubine Ayaba/Queen. Sango took the supreme position, as the official head of all officials, this was once head by women, thus the braids and dress look that Africans king wore. This Mama Zogbe spells out very excellent. I don't see no issue in it though, it seems simple. But some are suggesting proof in homosexuality, completely bogus. There's some sodomite on youtube claiming to be a babaloawo but he's openly gay. Baba means father and a gay man is volunteering to give up his right to procreate.
There's a lot of nonsense people will try to push off on Sango or Esu just so they can validate their ego and sins.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by absoluteSuccess: 8:35pm On Jul 10, 2015|
macof:I understand your need to be elusive dear brother. Tell me how Sango died and then the true gender of Oduduwa. The ancestors left some tasks for us, to find out truth about Itan (history) and Aroba (creation of king). It is the duty of the keen spirits to re search the creation of kings. The cup of Yoruba history is half empty, I am needed here. Obara meji, Odu Sango. Ara mbe ti mo fee da.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by lawani: 7:01am On Dec 21, 2015|
Iit must be appreciated that the real Sango or Jakuta is pre historic, in antiquity and not an Oyo man. Oyo ile is not more than 1000 years ago. The orisha of vengeance is as old as humanity which is why a day is dedicated to that orisa. It must also be appreciated that reincarnation is the Yoruba belief about life. Take Ogun for instance and the popular poem
Ogun meje lOgun mi!
Ogun Alara ni ngbaja
Ogun onire Agbagbo
Ogun ikola Agbagbin
Ogun Elemona agbeesun isu
Ogun Akirun a gbawo agbo
Ogun gbenagbena eran ahun ni nje
Ogun makinde ti dogun lehin odi!
Bi o gba Tapa a gba a boki a gba uku uku a gba kemberi.
Nibo lati pade Ogun?
A pade Ogun nibi ija
A pade Ogun nibi ita
A pade re nibi agbara eje nsan
Agbara eje ti nde ni lorun bi omi ago
Orisa toni ti Ogun o s i, yio fenu bosu je
Bi omode ba nda ile ko ma se da Ogun
Oro Ogun leewo. Ma ba Ogun fi ija sere
Ara Ogun kan gogogo!
It is in thesame light of multiple incarnations that Sango should be seen not as an Alaafin Oyo. I am happy that someone pointed out that Sango was Queen in the Akoko area. Those are 8 incarnations of Ogun listed there, not mentioning the Ajero who was my ancestor who likes palmwine, The Ogun Badagry, even Ogun Ewuare of Benin.
When considering Yoruba orisa, take note that there have been hundreds if not thousands of incarnations. For instance Ogun Makinde was a terrible man, a human ritualist.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 3:23pm On Dec 21, 2015|
Interesting point of view you have. Orishas are cosmic spirits as the Ajogun are as well. Man is ultimately a spirit so when combined with the Mother and Father Orisas of our family all humans have spiritual lineages. Many people throughout history have totally surrendered themselves to the spirit and allowed the spirit to lead their actions. This possession is more than likely what is called Orisha incarnation. Yet Baba Sango was also an Alaafin, the works he performed and deeds he accomplished could only have come from the seat of an Alaafin. The world dynamics must be taken into account, like where and how, and to whom the Orisha incarnates. And since an Orisha is a spirit, not bound by the physical laws, can be in several places at one time or incarnate several people, incarnate in several lifetimes or many lifetimes. Sometimes it good to read other mythologies besides Yoruba to get a clearer picture of how this works. Like for instance, in Krsna belief, Lord Krsna called the Godhead, manifests in many lifetimes but only comes once an eon. Krsna is Obatala as Obatala is the owner of all heads, trusted with the throne of Olorun the sky god, the second manifestation of Olodumare whom is the Creator. But in Kemetic legends, Obatala is Asar also known as Osiris, who wears all white like Obatala. Asar is killed by his brother Set, he leaves the world and becomes Lord of the Underworld charged with weighing souls, a very powerful position. Asar's heir is Heru aka Horus, but Heru is Sango, has all the same powers, and inherits Asar's throne, as each Alaafin is Baba Sango and inherits the throne of the one before also all the powers of Sango. Sango is the son of Almighty Obatala. Obatala's throne is in Ile Ife but Sango is the Earthly ruler while Baba is the Spiritual ruler. I'm not saying the Ooni is higher than the Alaafin. Almighty Obatala is a secret individual deep inside the ancestral Ogboni and very ancient secret societies of Africa, hidden, unknown, but very powerful. These societies stretch all across Africa and the world. The world is not what we think it is. True reality is hidden from the masses. Love, Sango.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KaffyK(f): 7:44am On Dec 23, 2015|
When an Orisha dies,yoy know something is wrong.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KaffyK(f): 7:44am On Dec 23, 2015|
Really, what is a Sango?
|Re: Sango Olukoso by lawani: 8:10am On Dec 23, 2015|
All humans die including incarnations of orisas. Orisa does not die. Mohammed the incarnation (mouthpiece) of Allah died, didn't he?
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 3:17pm On Dec 23, 2015|
True, in a sense what you say is true. But that's on one level. On another level energy/Emi aka spirit never dies. And since man has several Ka or that is the physical Ka, the Ka surrounding the body and the spirit which belongs to a certain spiritual lineage. Ancestors were defied especially African royalty, who were often buried with their earthly possessions. This is proof that our people wiser than we are now knew of the existence of another realm after this and they prepared for it with a lifetime of rituals and deeds dictated by Maat. The Pyramids were temples were priest brought down celestrial beings. These beings helped them to levitate the heavy stones, cut them precisely to where they didn't need mortar, also the entire structural complex was set precisely under specific constellations. We have lost so much and but if we open our minds to the traditions we could see a better future is in store for us. The Cosmic Age is here. The rise of Sango energy, the Earth is heating up and storms are rising all over the planet, flooding and natural disasters are happening. Prepare. Train. Pray. Love, Sango.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 4:44pm On Dec 24, 2015|
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KaffyK(f): 5:09pm On Dec 29, 2015|
lawani:if i may ask, all humans are an incarnation of Orisa. And Orisa never dies. Orisa is Allah. Allah is Orisa. Just like Mohammed, Sango is also an incarnate of the same Orisa
|Re: Sango Olukoso by lawani: 7:40pm On Dec 29, 2015|
Ifa says all humans are incarnations of irunmales, not necessarily orisas. Orisas are exceptional people who came to advance humanity. If people set back humanity, then they are not orisas. They may be incarnations of irunmales with bad character ie Ajogun.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by chiefolododo(m): 10:18pm On Dec 29, 2015|
|Re: Sango Olukoso by KingSango(m): 6:05pm On Dec 30, 2015|
Interesting, so some are actually demons in the flesh? I kind of figured this shape shifting thing is made up and we are actually in spiritual war with humans possessed by demons or have demonic minds, whatever they take humanity backwards, destroy the world, etc.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by ghostofsparta(m): 5:47am On Apr 20, 2016|
I have stated repeatedly that Sango the once Alaafin of Oyo who attained prominence for acquiring Sango-like attributes is different from the actual Sango the Irunmole who is at a level below the prime Irunmoles in the Yoruba pantheon.
One was born a human who wield Sango powers while the other is a deity supernaturally unique like each one of the 401 Irunmoles, all of whom manifest-existed in dual form.
90% of folks and scholars of Yoruba cosmogony unknowingly and mistakenly tend to blend the two together and has thus given critics the opportunity to disregard Sango as no more a human deified into a God.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by macof(m): 2:33pm On Apr 26, 2016|
before the Alaafin, nobody called on the name "Sango". It was Jakuta and the Jakuta cult was reformed by Sango
it's only in places that were under Oyo influence that have Sango. .. In Ife and eastern yoruba areas like Ilaje, it is Oramfe. The center of Sango veneration is Koso, where Sango followers founded...
Oramfe is Ile-Ife
Sango is an orisa not Irunmole.. similar case with Obatala who was the leader of the Cult that came to be known with the Name "Obatala"
|Re: Sango Olukoso by Nobody: 3:56pm On Apr 26, 2016|
My big brothers, I enjoy reading your posts and tapping from knowledge you drop on the pages of nairaland - May Olodumare continue to keep you for me and many others who learn from you both.
My own thoughts are that, Yoruba civilization reveres and ascrbes a deity to any (super) natural phenomenon.
Thus, we have the irunmole and the actual human figure for each phenomenon mostly intertwined which makes it difficult for the 'ogberi' to distonguish what from what.
As for lightening and thunder.
In Ife, it is Oramfe but then there's actual Oramfe figure and history surrounding him. Oramfe, apart from being the deity of lightening and thunder in Ife goes further as the deity of night and day (time) and rain. (His brother also controls rain, can't recall his name right now).
Sango, what was Sango's actual name? Sango the human was not known to control thunder & lightening. He, apart from having popular wives - Osun, Oya, Oba & Ganbiolu, was known for his tempranent and emiting smoke/fire from the mouth and also using stones to fight - stones that cause an explosion of fire upon hiting target - hence, 'Jakuta'. From the Sango human's life style, he was all about smoke, fire & stone not thunder & lightening.
We can say the mattee of lightening & thunder was incorporated into his followership much later and it was copied off of Oramfe.
Obatala is not the name of the isese sect. The worship and followership of Obatala was/is a family thing and we called ourselves Omo Olorisa or Ile Olorisa. There was Obatala the irunmole who created things and was next to Olodumare then there was Obatala the human who existed and didn't start a cult other than Ogboni which one of his sons founded. He was a king and had friends/followership from other kings - Oluorogbo, OrisaIkire, Ijugbe etc who were remained independent but saw him as a senior and most powerful - the Oduduwa war brought a sharp division that made everyone take different sides of the divide. Despite the sign up for his team, an 'Obatala cult' did not arise from it.
What we have is just a family compound upholding Obatala's temple and artefacts, propiatiating him as he requested all revolving around certain guidelines, rules and regulation. I do not see this as a cult
Just my 2 cents even though no one asked me for donations.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by macof(m): 7:07pm On Apr 26, 2016|
nice input egbon.
obarese is the name of Oramfe's brother. and I think Ijugbe is the place in ife where he is worshiped
|Re: Sango Olukoso by ghostofsparta(m): 10:09pm On Apr 26, 2016|
macof:Do you mean Oramfe is Ile-Ife or Oramfe is in Ile-Ife ?
Jakuta as I understand from my past research would be classified as a 'TITAN' with divinistic attributes, who hauled boulders hence 'ja kuta' (one who fights by hauling huge boulders) has it ever crossed your mind that there must have existed enormous entities similar to the Greek 'titans' from your Ifa researches but our ancient Ifa folks has no way of translating to us in that way. I have data that points to the existence of giants or titans in ancient Yorubalands lending credence to outer-space earth-visitors theorists and writers such as Eric Von Daniken. I am beginning to agree with my hypothesis that Irunmoles are Titans and Orishas are Gods because I have researching for a long time the difference between the two.
|Re: Sango Olukoso by lawani: 1:05am On Apr 27, 2016|
Isnt everybody irunmale incarnate? We are all irunmale incarnate and all orisas are irunmales who are with special energies. Olodumare is an irunmale who rules from Ogotun as Olu Ogotun chairing a council of 401 irunmales, two hundred on the right and two hundred on the left. Then we cant pin down just one person and say the person is Obatala and Ogun. There were very many of them. The first Obatala spoken of in Ifa was a woman Oba, later down the line, Obatala was referred to as a woman but the energy is 'perfect government administrator'. A fun nini gba fun aini. O so eni kan di igba eni. Anire niwa, Aniwa nire. Iba o!. So you can not pin any orisa down to something that happened in Ile Ife around 15 centuries ago.
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