OLAADEGBU:


I will call that kind of 'wisdom' earthly and carnal.

why is that?

should he have said that they be driven from church or told that if they don't change, they can't attend church?
God forbid that they are turned back from Church
let them go form their own church and express themselves as they wish there. If Christs chooses to visit them or abandon them there...so be it

mustymatic:

Are you a devout Christian? Do you kno what the Bible says regarding it?
So now I understand you do this for fun, you are not a believer.

Homosexuals were stoned in the old testament.
These old laws were ended as a result of the new covenant brought forth by Christ. New testament = Christians , and are forbidden to stone homosexuals or commit violence. It is not allowed even Jews who practise Judaism don't do that again.
600 years after Christ's ascension a brute called mohammed came to preach stonings again. Get the difference ??

parisbookaddict:


Homosexuals were stoned in the old testament.
These old laws were ended as a result of the new covenant brought forth by Christ. New testament = Christians , and are forbidden to stone homosexuals or commit violence. It is not allowed even Jews who practise Judaism don't do that again.
600 years after Christ's ascension a brute called mohammed came to preach stonings again. Get the difference ??

No I don't
Is it not the same god? How many gods do you worship?
Is it before or after editing the Bible?

I agree that churches are different and the diplomatic way he used in not giving actual answers to some questions eh! ......

Now, am left lost, in trying to figure out where he stands!

I don't know if he's in support or not in support. Is he afraid of something? What might that be?

Na wa o! If him no fit call black - black, omo! Make we ready well well o! Time don end abi end don time

Wettin I dey write sef? Me sef don confuse

esere826:

why is that?

should he have said that they be driven from church or told that if they don't change, they can't attend church?
God forbid that they are turned back from Church
let them go form their own church and express themselves as they wish there. If Christs chooses to visit them or abandon them there...so be it

No one is talking about gays attending the Church but if they or any other sinner doesn't want repent from their sin should they seek churches that affirm their sinful lifestyle?

Thoniameek:


I agree that churches are different and the diplomatic way he used in not giving actual answers to some questions eh! ......

Now, am left lost, in trying to figure out where he stands!

I don't know if he's in support or not in support. Is he afraid of something? What might that be?

Na wa o! If him no fit call black - black, omo! Make we ready well well o! Time don end abi end don time

Wettin I dey write sef? Me sef don confuse

Those who can discern the times understand where T.D. Jakes stands.

OLAADEGBU:


Those who can discern the times understand where T.D. Jakes stands.

Are you one of 'those'? If yes, where does he stand

Thoniameek:


Are you one of 'those'? If yes, where does he stand

Yes, I am one of those who believe that the scriptures are being fulfilled in these last days:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears" (2 Timothy 4:3).

OLAADEGBU:


Yes, I am one of those who believe that the scriptures are being fulfilled in these last days:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears" (2 Timothy 4:3).

Oh! Okay.... I thought you were coming from a different angle

OLAADEGBU:


No one is talking about gays attending the Church but if they or any other sinner doesn't want repent from their sin should they seek churches that affirm their sinful lifestyle?

I think the point was missed
the explanation is quite lengthy,... but let me try something short but a little bit haphazard

Churches are different just as one man is different from another, and one culture is different from another
Example of differences is:

There are some Nigerian families that allow their daughters the liberty to go outing even in the night
an onlooker that is pro lock-girls-in-the-house might hastily summaries that the parents are affirming that they should turn to prost.titutes

However, the parents might have something different in mind and might be coming from a different emotional place.

Now, this ^^^ is not a perfect example
however it should help in explaining that the word "affirm" that you used does not quite fit into what Jakes was saying

Let's move on
Christianity or Christiandom as I know it encourages people to first hear the gospel, then after this, come into repentance
this spreading of the gospel for repentance can come in two ways
1) Going out to evangelize
2) People coming into church to hear the gospel

Because the Church (as a congregation) is made up of people who are mostly closely knit and family units
there is always a tendency to protect some core shared values, unlike what you would get in outdoor evangelism
However, like I said earlier, the shared cored values differ from church to church
-one congregation would not mind if its prophet slaps everyone while spreading the gospel of repentance
-another would not mind if its prophets occasionally err and sleep with the most beautiful of its girls
-yet another would not mind if its prophets murder English regularly and teaches his flock to do same

Jakes is suggesting that is congregation would be uncomfortable with open gays, but that they can try some other church

OK,
you might say shouldn't he just condemn homosexuality outrightly and leave them to their fate
I'd say that well we are all different. One condemns, another heals

Besides, when a church spends every passing minute condemning
no one will come to hear the gospel in the first place, and there will be no repentance

But then, you might go on to say what manner of preaching will be served in a homosexual 'affirming' church?
I'd say as long as there is a living seed in the soil, no matter the amount of debris that covers it, it will one day force its way out
As 'protestants' we are taught that the Roman authorities absorbed Christianity and then snuffed it
However, it is self evident that this absorption ended up doing us a great deal of good as it spread Christianity to Europe and Africa
and stopped us from getting regularly roasted by a baying mob
but no 'dead' christianity was spread to China, and so there has been no gospel rising out of any Christian orthodox carcass in China

In summary, even if for the sake of our beliefs we cast these people away from us into the desert,
let us at least let them go with some of our water no matter how small

esere826:


I think the point was missed
the explanation is quite lengthy,... but let me try something short but a little bit haphazard

Churches are different just as one man is different from another, and one culture is different from another
Example of differences is:

There are some Nigerian families that allow their daughters the liberty to go outing even in the night
an onlooker that is pro lock-girls-in-the-house might hastily summaries that the parents are affirming that they should turn to prost.titutes

However, the parents might have something different in mind and might be coming from a different emotional place.

Now, this ^^^ is not a perfect example
however it should help in explaining that the word "affirm" that you used does not quite fit into what Jakes was saying

Let's move on
Christianity or Christiandom as I know it encourages people to first hear the gospel, then after this, come into repentance
this spreading of the gospel for repentance can come in two ways
1) Going out to evangelize
2) People coming into church to hear the gospel

Because the Church (as a congregation) is made up of people who are mostly closely knit and family units
there is always a tendency to protect some core shared values, unlike what you would get in outdoor evangelism
However, like I said earlier, the shared cored values differ from church to church
-one congregation would not mind if its prophet slaps everyone while spreading the gospel of repentance
-another would not mind if its prophets occasionally err and sleep with the most beautiful of its girls
-yet another would not mind if its prophets murder English regularly and teaches his flock to do same

Jakes is suggesting that is congregation would be uncomfortable with open gays, but that they can try some other church

OK,
you might say shouldn't he just condemn homosexuality outrightly and leave them to their fate
I'd say that well we are all different. One condemns, another heals

Besides, when a church spends every passing minute condemning
no one will come to hear the gospel in the first place, and there will be no repentance

But then, you might go on to say what manner of preaching will be served in a homosexual 'affirming' church?
I'd say as long as there is a living seed in the soil, no matter the amount of debris that covers it, it will one day force its way out
As 'protestants' we are taught that the Roman authorities absorbed Christianity and then snuffed it
However, it is self evident that this absorption ended up doing us a great deal of good as it spread Christianity to Europe and Africa
and stopped us from getting regularly roasted by a baying mob
but no 'dead' christianity was spread to China, and so there has been no gospel rising out of any Christian orthodox carcass in China

In summary, even if for the sake of our beliefs we cast these people away from us into the desert,
let us at least let them go with some of our water no matter how small

Do you call the church highlighted above a church of God? Check the link below to see how wrong T.D. Jakes theology is completely wrong.

https://www.nairaland.com/2504886/should-homosexuals-put-death

OLAADEGBU:


Do you call the church highlighted above a church of God? Check the link below to see how wrong T.D. Jakes theology is completely wrong.

https://www.nairaland.com/2504886/should-homosexuals-put-death

umhhh Olaadegbu
there are too many points here
I really don't know how to tackle them in one place
What is a church?
then, what is a church of God?
Probably, this is were our thinking might fork into different paths

My understanding is that we tend to differentiate between these 2.
A church is a group of people (christians) that come together in a location with the main aim of calling on the name of Jesus
they could be extremely 'saintly' or extremely dirty or a mix. Their beliefs can be extremely different

A "church of God" is when we try to insist or connote only the churches that are made up of 'saintly' folks and follow some doctrines which we believe are the right ones. The emphasis in such description is that the congregation must be 'holy' because God is 'holy' and hates 'sin'. The goal here is to denounce and regularly flog sin while seeking to be as holy as possible.


I would have said yes, it is a church of God, however, the challenge I have with using the term 'Church of God' in such arguments is because it would immediately raise up a mental block in someone who's idea of the association of God and holiness is different from mine

It's much like when men are discussing sex and then if for any reason the discussion shifts to their daughters or wife immediately the story ends or quarrel starts

esere826:


umhhh Olaadegbu
there are too many points here
I really don't know how to tackle them in one place
What is a church?
then, what is a church of God?
Probably, this is were our thinking might fork into different paths

My understanding is that we tend to differentiate between these 2.
A church is a group of people (christians) that come together in a location with the main aim of calling on the name of Jesus
they could be extremely 'saintly' or extremely dirty or a mix. Their beliefs can be extremely different

A "church of God" is when we try to insist or connote only the churches that are made up of 'saintly' folks and follow some doctrines which we believe are the right ones. The emphasis in such description is that the congregation must be 'holy' because God is 'holy' and hates 'sin'. The goal here is to denounce and regularly flog sin while seeking to be as holy as possible.


I would have said yes, it is a church of God, however, the challenge I have with using the term 'Church of God' in such arguments is because it would immediately raise up a mental block in someone who's idea of the association of God and holiness is different from mine

It's much like when men are discussing sex and then if for any reason the discussion shifts to their daughters or wife immediately the story ends or quarrel starts

To be laconic, the church of God comprises of a called out people who have been washed by the blood of the lamb. It is a company of people who are in Christ and have become new creatures. It is not a gathering were sin is condoned or where sinners are made to feel comfortable, it is like an hospital where the sick become healed and the sinners become saved. It is not a place for political correctness. It is a place where the truth is to be said in love and the saints are nurtured into maturity till Christ be fully formed in them.

parisbookaddict:
Jakes is very eloquent and this is the reason I am surprised at how ambiguous and unclear his initial comments were.. the rest of his remarks are not faulty but too guarded nonetheless. .
The gay life style is disgusting unnatural and condemned by scripture. He and every christian should reject gay marriage but should NOT impose our worldview on others.

they should also reject prostituting in europe

OLAADEGBU:


To be laconic, the church of God comprises of a called out people who have been washed by the blood of the lamb. It is a company of people who are in Christ and have become new creatures. It is not a gathering were sin is condoned or where sinners are made to feel comfortable, it is like an hospital where the sick become healed and the sinners become saved. It is not a place for political correctness. It is a place where the truth is to be said in love and the saints are nurtured into maturity till Christ be fully formed in them.

Now, this is where TD Jakes and I differ from you
and that is why you would find Jakes suggestion strange
we are thinking of different things although we used the same words
For us, a church of Christ is where people (no matter how in-sin or out-of-sin they ) come together to listen to the Word of God, and get refreshed
the emphasis is on Christ, but in an environment that is suitable for us

-I would find it difficult attending a church where everyone is tying their hair and have probably not washed for days even if miracles pour down like rain there.. it doesnt stop it from being a church of Christ

esere826:


Now, this is where TD Jakes and I differ from you
and that is why you would find Jakes suggestion strange
we are thinking of different things although we used the same words
For us, a church of Christ is where people (no matter how in-sin or out-of-sin they ) come together to listen to the Word of God, and get refreshed
the emphasis is on Christ, but in an environment that is suitable for us

The type of Christianity TD Jakes, Obama and yourself practise is the type that doesn't disturb your comfortable sinful lifestyle, it is not different from a social club.

esere826:


-I would find it difficult attending a church where everyone is tying their hair and have probably not washed for days even if miracles pour down like rain there.. it doesnt stop it from being a church of Christ

You sound like the Pharisees who feel superior to others who they deem inferior and dirty.

"Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread" (Matthew 15:2)

"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican" (Luke 18:2).

OLAADEGBU:


The type of Christianity TD Jakes, Obama and yourself practise is the type that doesn't disturb your comfortable sinful lifestyle, it is not different from a social club.

If you say so
however, I now spend more time on the 'things of God' and feel more bonded to Him in this 'social club' than when I was a chairman in the 'christian assembly of critics'
and interestingly, God has not complained about this to me

You sound like the Pharisees who feel superior to others who they deem inferior and dirty.
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread(Matthew 15:2)

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican(Luke 18:2).

actual with regards to homosexuality
i think you sound more like the pharisee quoted ..my opinion sha

anyways, it comes back to the same point.. let those of us sinful 'pharisees' that want to worship God in aircondition go join to those with like minds not minding others
while the 'saints' who prefer 'self infliction', go ahead to worship with their kind and throw jabs at us the 'pharisees'

..and let God be the one to separate wheat from chaff