truthman2013:
^^ Apparently, this dude knows next to nothing. Smg seriously for you.

Jaz'k my mentor, demmzy15

truthman..

basilico:
And the actual event of a collector of Islamic jizya
visiting a Hindu neighborhood was shameful for the
kinds of things he engaged in. Qadi Mughith ad-Din told
Sultan Ala’ud-Dîn Khaljî: “ If the Jizyah-collector asks a
Hindu for silver, the latter should offer gold in all
humility. If the collector wishes to spit into his mouth,
the latter should open his mouth without demur, so as
to enable the former to spit into it .” [from Diyâ’ ad-Dîn
Baranî, Tarîkh-i Firozshâhi, Sayyid Athar Abbas Rizwi,
selected Hindi tr., in his Khaljî-Kalîna Bhârata, Aligarh,
1955, p. 70]


More here on how Muslims are to treat non Muslims. pact of umar. older age Muslims interpreted Islam correctly but tawqiya mongering Muslims here are lying to infidels

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Analysis_of_the_Pact_of_Umar

Your source is enough for me to throw this nonsense away. Even though Muslims are required to pay Zakat which is much more than Jizyah, but what you state here is wrong. Never did early Muslims act upon this garbage. Nevertheless, watch out for my upcoming thread "Jizyah! Is it about oppression?! " Coming soon to Nairaland by Demmzy15!

malvisguy212:
[s]okay, let read verse 29 :
Fight those who BELIEVE NOT IN ALLAH
nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden
by Allah and His Apostle, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth,
(even if they are) of the People of the
Book, until they pay the Jizya with
willing submission, and feel
themselves subdued.

The verse say fight those who believe not in Allah, and the verse went on to encourage the muslims to fight thoes who do not forbid what ALLAH and MUHAMMED had forbidden. Did the christians and Jews believe in muhammed ? Talkless of forbid what he forbid.

The above emphatically exhorts Muslims to conquer the following groups of people until they pay a sum of money (Jizya) as a sign of their subjection and humiliation:

1. Atheists/Agnostics (those who believe
not in God nor the Last Day). Jews and Christians (people of the Book).
2. Everyone else, whether Hindus/
Magians, Buddhists etc., since these
groups do not prohibit what Muhammad forbade nor believe in
Islam, the so-called "religion of Truth".[/s]

Your source is enough for me to throw this nonsense away. Even though Muslims are required to pay Zakat which is much more than Jizyah, but what you state here is wrong. Never did early Muslims act upon this garbage. Nevertheless, watch out for my upcoming thread "Jizyah! Is it about oppression?! " Coming soon to Nairaland by Demmzy15! grin

proo212:
@Demmzy15


Come on Mr, you and I know that Jizya is much more than Zakat which is 2.5%. This is an obvious lie.

How can a polytheist pay less than 2.5% of his belongings and be humiliated? This is what 9:29 says

truthman2012:
Quran 9:29 is one of the clearest verses in the quran, which no amount of twisting can change the meaning.

Surah 9:29: Fight those who
believe
not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor
hold forbidden which hath been
forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the
religion of Truth, EVEN IF THEY
ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK ,
until they pay
the Jizya with willing submission
and feel themselves subdued.

The Romans are also the people of the Book, right?

The phrase ''EVEN IF THEY ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK'' in that verse shows the Romans were under a secondary attack. They were not the first target. If the story cooked-up by fake truthman2013 is true, why was Muhammad's attack on Romans (the people of the Book) secondary? I mean if the Romans initiated the fight according to the OP, why was the islamic attack on them secondary and not primary? '' EVEN IF''.

Besides, Rilwayne01 aka fake truthman2013 had on many occassions on this forum claimed and supported his claim with unrelated islamic sources that Quran 9:29 was revealed following pagans breaking the treaty they had with the Muhammadans. Now it is no more pagans who broke the treaty but Romans who raised war against the muslims. New day new lies. It is a pity that the Devil can go to this extent to deceive some muslims. Don't you have conscience? You indeed need to lie so much to defend al-liar (allahh). Since al-liar said he is the best of deceivers, it is no surprise you are so gifted with lying spirit. FAKE truthman2013. What truth do you have in you?

Coming back to the verse 9:29, the reason for the attack on the people of the Book is already stated in the verse - the pagans, the Jews and the Christians who ''FORBADE NOT WHAT ALLAH HATH FORBIDEN BY HIS MESSENGER, AND FOR NOT ACCEPTING THE RELIGION OF THE SO-CALLED TRUTH''. Period. What has this got to do with Romans raising war?

Allah is truly the best of deceivers and that shows in the way he revealed the quran. The quran has no context and therefore you need other writters to formulate the context, which allows for various lies. Why is the quran not self-explanatory in most of its verses? The simple answer is ''TO DECEIVE by the best of DECEIVERS.

May the true God deliver the ignorant and innocent muslims.

truthman2012:
Quran 9:29 is one of the clearest verses in the quran, which no amount of twisting can change the meaning.

Surah 9:29: Fight those who
believe
not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor
hold forbidden which hath been
forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the
religion of Truth, EVEN IF THEY
ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK ,
until they pay
the Jizya with willing submission
and feel themselves subdued.

Your deception is busted once again, the verse never stated "Even if they are". Yusuf Ali's translation placed it in parenthesis or brackets which shows its not part of the original message.

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Yusuf Ali

Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Muhsin Khan

Hope you can see shameless old liar!

The Romans are also the people of the Book, right?

[s]The phrase ''EVEN IF THEY ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK'' in that verse shows the Romans were under a secondary attack. They were not the first target. If the story cooked-up by fake truthman2013 is true, why was Muhammad's attack on Romans (the people of the Book) secondary? I mean if the Romans initiated the fight according to the OP, why was the islamic attack on them secondary and not primary? '' EVEN IF''.[/s]

Besides, Rilwayne01 aka fake truthman2013 had on many occassions on this forum claimed and supported his claim with unrelated islamic sources that Quran 9:29 was revealed following pagans breaking the treaty they had with the Muhammadans.

Now it is no more pagans who broke the treaty but Romans who raised war against the muslims. New day new lies.

You're the liar here, you were busted above you know?!

It is a pity that the Devil can go to this extent to deceive some muslims.

[s]Don't you have conscience? You indeed need to lie so much to defend al-liar (allahh). Since al-liar said he is the best of deceivers, it is no surprise you are so gifted with lying spirit. FAKE truthman2013. What truth do you have in you?[/s]

Lie-lieman2012 you're the liar here. Apparently Paul told you to do takkiyah to win converts, but I thank Allah that your folly and deception is exposed for the world to see. Shebi your daughter pause in the air when you shouted Jesus abi? Liar!

Coming back to the verse 9:29, the reason for the attack on the people of the Book is already stated in the verse - the pagans, the Jews and the Christians who ''FORBADE NOT WHAT ALLAH HATH FORBIDEN BY HIS MESSENGER, AND FOR NOT ACCEPTING THE RELIGION OF THE SO-CALLED TRUTH''. Period. What has this got to do with Romans raising war?

Allah is truly the best of deceivers and that shows in the way he revealed the quran. The quran has no context and therefore you need other writters to formulate the context, which allows for various lies. Why is the quran not self-explanatory in most of its verses? The simple answer is ''TO DECEIVE by the best of DECEIVERS.

Bla Bla Bla blabbing as usual. Why are you angry/pained? Is it that you can't take simple corrections? OK continu o! Oh yes! I can remember that your god sent lying spirits to his Prophets, so pathetic!

[s]May the true God deliver the ignorant and innocent muslims.[/s]

true2god:
Truthman2012, I seriously admire your courage and consistency in the face of blatant Islamic lies going on on a global scale. telling lies to defend Islamic honour at all cost seems to be the most lucrative industry in this information age.

Saudi Arabia commits millions of dollars on a yearly basis to polish Islam world wide while demonizing christianity in their national media using Arabic languaguge.

I need proof for this baseless assertion of yours! This is how you make fool of yourselves, you like lying and at the end you're exposed...smh..

So it is a battle of information and Muslims are using lies and clears deceit in defending the evil instruction s mohammed gave in qurann 9:5, 29_30, qurann 5:51, all in direct attack against the Christians and the jews .

plainbibletruth:
I was expecting a clear point-by-point rebuttal of my post but what I see is: 

You then displayed your madness or you should I say stupidity by putting down laughing emojis( )

- 'we know why these verses were revealed'. (So are we to understand that the 'why' of the verses is not quite in the verses but elsewhere? Possibly in the heads of those like 'lieman2013?)

- 'nonsensical'. (This was even when it was merely a quote from the earlier post that I made; not my own statement)

- 'His prophet understood him .....' (Is this suggesting that as long as the prophet understood it doesn't matter if he cannot plainly state it to his followers?)

- 'Must everything be about inspiration?' (Can we see that clearly these guys either don't know anything about the divine or just care less - just about any source to justify any position they want to hold is ok to grab hold of).

Islam is different from Christianity, is it not the same inspired bible that contains 100s of inconsistencies, plagiarism, contradictions? In Islam the only truly revealed book is the Qur'an which is perfect. The hadith, sirah, etc are all written by man and therefore there're mistakes. Hope you grab?!

- 'Everything is clearly explained, ...' (If it's so CLEARLY explained it should be VERY EASY to simply point them out, shouldn't it?). 

- 'You're the gullible one here, you can't read and that's a great problem' (This is supposed to be addressed to someone debunking their statements. Gullible about what exactly? About the issue in question or something totally unrelated to the discussion at hand)

I Dunno! Next!!

In all these, what is clear is that these guys are operating on a twisted set of logic. A logic that makes them run to ANY SOURCE to support whatever they want ANY part of the Quran to say at ANY point in time. 

In the case in question, what our Muslim guys have VERY CONVENIENTLY failed to point out is that there are Muslim writers who agree that  "Fight those who do not believe" means "Fight those who do not believe." and nothing else. So who is right - the Muslim sources quoted by these guys or the classical Muslim commentators who hold opposing views? Why did they hide this fact? Why do they want people to accept their DECEIT knowing that they are being economical with the truth?

Demmzy15:



From all observations you haven't been reading. The Tafsir which contains hadith narrated by the Prophet Muhammad was used to explain, the historical context was also taken.


In Islam the only truly revealed book is the Qur'an which is perfect. The hadith, sirah, etc are all written by man and therefore there're mistakes. Hope you grab?!



... mentioned a quote from a Reverend who clearly understood


Our sources are authentic which is recognized by all. In fact some of you Christians(Malviguy) misquote them, but we're always around to expose and bust you. [/font]


Go to page 1-2, it's clearly explained.

true2god:
Truthman2012, I seriously admire your courage and consistency in the face of blatant Islamic lies going on on a global scale. telling lies to defend Islamic honour at all cost seems to be the most lucrative industry in this information age.

Saudi Arabia commits millions of dollars on a yearly basis to polish Islam world wide while demonizing christianity in their national media using Arabic languaguge. So it is a battle of information and Muslims are using lies and clears deceit in defending the evil instruction s mohammed gave in qurann 9:5, 29_30, qurann 5:51, all in direct attack against the Christians and the jews .

Demmzy15:


No one is trying to twist anything, it's your extremist mind that is twisted.



Your deception is busted once again, the verse never stated "Even if they are". Yusuf Ali's translation placed it in parenthesis or brackets which shows its not part of the original message.

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Yusuf Ali

Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Muhsin Khan

Hope you can see shameless old liar!



The Roman Empire which is also called Byzantine Empire official religion is Christianity. They're known for their persecution of Arians, Copts, Jews(they're brutally persecuted), etc. So since they're Christians, they're "People Of The Book"



You were busted lying, nothing like "even if" in that verse. The war between Muslims and the Romans started when they(Romans) killed the emissaries of Prophet Muhammad which then lead to the battle of Mutah, after which Muslims prepared for Tabuk.



You fail to understand probably because of your old age, you're already weary. Parts of Suratul Tawbah 9 refers to treaties with the pagans which was broken. This is found in Qur'an 9:1-12, 28, etc. When the Muslims took over Makkah during the conquest, verse 29 was revealed concerning the war with the Byzantines or Romans. Subsequently other verses were revealed due to different events, I know you won't understand. But that's your P!



You're the liar here, you were busted above you know?!



Typical with you Christians, whenever you have nothing to say, you bring up "devil deceiving ish". Thrash!



Lie-lieman2012 you're the liar here. Apparently Paul told you to do takkiyah to win converts, but I thank Allah that your folly and deception is exposed for the world to see. Shebi your daughter pause in the air when you shouted Jesus abi? Liar!



Visit page 1-2, it's already explained.



Bla Bla Bla blabbing as usual. Why are you angry/pained? Is it that you can't take simple corrections? OK continu o! Oh yes! I can remember that your god sent lying spirits to his Prophets, so pathetic!



May Allah pardon your ignorance. May he forgive you and cohorts, it's never too late. Allah is Ar-Rahman(The Merciful), he'll surely forgive you!

plainbibletruth:
[size=5pt][/size]

1. You guys have VERY CONVENIENTLY left out the FACT that there are Muslim writers who agree that  "Fight those who do not believe" simply means "Fight those who do not believe." and nothing else.

2. So who is right - the Muslim sources quoted by you guys or the classical Muslim commentators who hold opposing views? 

Which of the classical scholars? Is it Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abdulwahab, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Hajar, An Nawawi, etc?!

3. Why did you hide this fact? 

[s]4. Why do you want people to accept your DECEIT knowing in your conscience (hope it's still working well?) that you are being economical with the truth?[/s]

Demmzy15:




Which fact exactly?

plainbibletruth:


[s]Your interpretation is actually an attempt to make the text mean a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing than what is clearly stated. 

You same guys argue against others who use a translation of the Quran, pointing out where parenthesis is used it should be discarded. Yet you pick a source that is COMPLETELY outside the same Quran and you want everybody to accept it as "authentic" interpretation of the Quran. 

Amazing!

If you were honest you would have CLEARLY started by letting your readers KNOW that even within Muslim circles there are DIVERGENT OPINIONS. You may then go on to show how you think your position is right. But you did not. 
This goes to show the extent you go to deceive readers. 
Demmzy, stop your deceit![/s]

Demmzy15:

Oya face front!

truthman2012:


May God open your eyes.

As muslims discover errors in the quran, they keep changing the translations. Many hadiths have been deleted on the internet from islamic sites. Muslims conscience has been blocked with hot iron by al-liar.

In 9:29, where did you see Roman soldiers there?

Why does the quran have no contexts as a result of which you have to formulate them by yourselves?

Why is it that there is no history of Roman war against the Muhammadans for religious reason apart from the muslims' formulations?

Rilwayne01 aka fake truthman2013 have said many times that 9:29 was revealed when pagans broke treaty and now it is the Romans raising war. Why is he inconsistent?

To prove al-liar a deceiver, I opened a thread, which all of you could not refute, yet continue to make noise everywhere on this forum:

https://www.nairaland.com/2507051/muhammad-vs-other-prophets

https://www.nairaland.com/2511448/contradictions-quran

truthman2012:
Quran 9:29 is one of the clearest verses in the quran, which no amount of twisting can change the meaning.

Surah 9:29: Fight those who
believe
not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor
hold forbidden which hath been
forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the
religion of Truth, EVEN IF THEY
ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK ,
until they pay
the Jizya with willing submission
and feel themselves subdued.

The Romans are also the people of the Book, right?

The phrase ''EVEN IF THEY ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK'' in that verse shows the Romans were under a secondary attack. They were not the first target. If the story cooked-up by fake truthman2013 is true, why was Muhammad's attack on Romans (the people of the Book) secondary? I mean if the Romans initiated the fight according to the OP, why was the islamic attack on them secondary and not primary? '' EVEN IF''.

Besides, Rilwayne01 aka fake truthman2013 had on many occassions on this forum claimed and supported his claim with unrelated islamic sources that Quran 9:29 was revealed following pagans breaking the treaty they had with the Muhammadans. Now it is no more pagans who broke the treaty but Romans who raised war against the muslims. New day new lies. It is a pity that the Devil can go to this extent to deceive some muslims. Don't you have conscience? You indeed need to lie so much to defend al-liar (allahh). Since al-liar said he is the best of deceivers, it is no surprise you are so gifted with lying spirit. FAKE truthman2013. What truth do you have in you?

Coming back to the verse 9:29, the reason for the attack on the people of the Book is already stated in the verse - the pagans, the Jews and the Christians who ''FORBADE NOT WHAT ALLAH HATH FORBIDEN BY HIS MESSENGER, AND FOR NOT ACCEPTING THE RELIGION OF THE SO-CALLED TRUTH''. Period. What has this got to do with Romans raising war?

Allah is truly the best of deceivers and that shows in the way he revealed the quran. The quran has no context and therefore you need other writters to formulate the context, which allows for various lies. Why is the quran not self-explanatory in most of its verses? The simple answer is ''TO DECEIVE by the best of DECEIVERS.

May the true God deliver the ignorant and innocent muslims.