@deji
Rugged 4 life!!!
U can kill ur self  

@ Bamsyle, Thunder fire you!

Lets hear your own.

Bamsyle:

2pac was great in his time . . . the reason he gets celebrated more than all other dead rappers combined together is that he worked harder than they did (evidenced by his post-humous hits) . . . he was real . . . he rapped about issues we can all relate with . . . in a generation of rappers who now rap jargons, why won't he be celebrated

Bamsyle, 2Pac went to Prison.

He had loads of time on his hands to pen lyrics. He was also fuelled by the torture and anger that Biggie/Puffy were killing the airwaves while he was locked down.
What do lags do in Prison?? Nothing.
The prison sentence was a blessing to him cos there was no distraction and he was able to learn/write more about the world around him(Niccolo Machiavelli, Politics, etc).
How does this equate to hard work??
There was also a clause in his contract with Deathrow(He must do 3 albums under Suge Knight's record label in exchange for his bail).
All these factors pumped Pac up to put out loads of songs out.

2Pac is excellent but i believe he is tad over-rated.

I see it slightly differently. I think Tupac was overrated for his most famous songs e.g. 'California Love' and 'Changes'. In that sense, yes he is hyped up a little since these few hit songs of his are all that some people know about Tupac.

However most people haven't heard all his other songs, including the dozens of unreleased and original mix tracks (all of which you can find on youtube if you only look). These songs are far superior to his famous 'pop' and 'hit' songs and they are unfortunately very overlooked when they are Tupac's greatest legacy of all.

To say that Tupac is overrated is incredibly ignorant. Just compare him to today's rappers. In 1996, he was still considered the driving force of hip-hop, even

before he died. In 2009, we have Lil Wayne as the driving force of today's hip-hop game, what does that say about hip-hop? Wayne has a broad

vocabulary, and tells no stories, yet he's the best we have today? Tupac was able to tell a story with a new rhyme scheme, and included a great vocabulary,

He was a great storyteller and poet, who used hip-hop as an outreach to better the world. To say that Tupac is overrated, is to say that MLK was overrated.

@ Deji

2Pac is no MLK. . . . more like Malcolm X. . . . and Malcolm X is overrated 

~Sauron~:

Bamsyle, 2Pac went to Prison.

He had loads of time on his hands to pen lyrics. He was also fuelled by the torture and anger that Biggie/Puffy were killing the airwaves while he was locked down.
What do lags do in Prison?? Nothing.
The prison sentence was a blessing to him cos there was no distraction and he was able to learn/write more about the world around him(Niccolo Machiavelli, Politics, etc).
How does this equate to hard work??
There was also a clause in his contract with Deathrow(He must do 3 albums under Suge Knight's record label in exchange for his bail).
All these factors pumped Pac up to put out loads of songs out.

2Pac is excellent but i believe he is tad over-rated.

Sauron, you know we've had this debate before and I won't just agree to this . . .

2pac was/is not the only rapper or artiste that ever went to prison . . . and even if incarceration did propel him into a genius, err'one has a driving force . . . it does not matter what motivates you . . . it's the ends that justifies the means . . .

I'm unable to see how the fact that someone turned what shoulda be a stumbling block in his life into a stepping stone becomes a minus to his credentials . . .

And don't forget that he spent only 11 months in prison . . . was it within that period he wrote the plethora of hits he has

Some other dudes would enter the same prison as stars . . . and come out as failures . . . think about it.

One of the reasons peops keep saying he's overrated is that they just can't stomach the fact that he died more than a decade ago and yet he's being celebrated this much . . . coupled with the fact that they look at his life and all they see is the THUG LIFE, F**k The World attitude and themes . . .

Behind all that smokescreen . . . lies a great poet . . . who was and is still being misunderstood.

@Ibime

Abeg comot there . . . berra find somethang profitable to do with your time and stop inflicting pain on our eardrums with that Merengue Music you call Rap . . .

Bamsyle, we are still waiting to hear your own o. How can you pull up off-topic shit from years ago to justify your argument. Thats a shady tactic mehn and completely uncalled for. Thank God I retired. But you are still active sha, so we would like to hear your own. We will judge ya skills honestly.

Bamsyle:

2pac was/is not the only rapper or artiste that ever went to prison . . . and even if incarceration did propel him into a genius, err'one has a driving force . . . it does not matter what motivates you . . . it's the ends that justifies the means . . .

I still think he was only rapper that went to Prison in his prime.
2Pac going to Prison then is like 50 cent going to Prison for 11 months in 2003.
He had something to prove. . . . . . .The 11 months jail term afforded him that.
With little or no distraction from the outside world, he wrote and wrote and wrote. 11 months in Prison is a long time(mind you).
Their day ends as early as 5 pm.

I'm unable to see how the fact that someone turned what shoulda be a stumbling block in his life into a stepping stone becomes a minus in his credentials . . .
And don't forget that he spent only 11 months in prison . . . was it within that period he wrote the plethora of hits he has
Some other dudes would enter the same prison as stars . . . and come out as failures . . . think about it.

If u consider the circumstances around the time Pac went to Prison, success was his only option.
He was shot, he went to Prison. While in Prison, lags told him it was Biggie's boys that did the shooting. 2Pac felt betrayed and angry. . . .
How could his home-boys pull a number on him?? He went to work. . . . .To destroy Bad Boy record label. What infuriated him the most was the fact that Biggie/Puffy were killing the airwaves while he was facing a lengthy sentence. Vengeance/Justice was his motivation.
Mode9 would do more songs than Pac did if he goes to Prison while Ruggedy is ripping SoundScan.

One of the reasons peops keep saying he's overrated is that they just can't stomach the fact that he died more than a decade ago and yet he's being celebrated this much . . . coupled with the fact that they look at his life and all they see is the THUG LIFE, F**k The World attitude and themes . . .
Behind all that smokescreen . . . lies a great poet . . . who was and is still being misunderstood.

He is overrated(i don't care if it's 1% more than the credit he deserves)!!!

~Sauron~:

I still think he was only rapper that went to Prison in his prime.
2Pac going to Prison then is like 50 cent going to Prison for 11 months in 2003.
He had something to prove. . . . . . .The 11 months jail term afforded him that.
With little or no distraction from the outside world, he wrote and wrote and wrote. 11 months in Prison is a long time(mind you).
Their day ends as early as 5 pm.

If u consider the circumstances around the time Pac went to Prison, success was his only option.
He was shot, he went to Prison. While in Prison, lags told him it was Biggie's boys that did the shooting. 2Pac felt betrayed and angry. . . .
How could his home-boys pull a number on him?? He went to work. . . . .To destroy Bad Boy record label. What infuriated him the most was the fact that Biggie/Puffy were killing the airwaves while he was facing a lengthy sentence. Vengeance/Justice was his motivation.
Mode9 would do more songs than Pac did if he goes to Prison while Ruggedy is ripping SoundScan.

He is overrated(i don't care if it's 1% more than the credit he deserves)!!!

Lemme see if I can make a modest list of rappers that went to or are still in prison:

Black Rob - released 2 albums, made several guest appearances on Bad Boy's joints, was incarcerated several times . . . the recent sentence being 7 years (Heavens, dude has a lot of time to write a million hits!) . . . he has slipped into oblivion.

DMX - He is even the one I respect most . . . sundry arrests . . . 6 albums . . . prison must not be his driving force cos it's obvious his multiple incarcerations have marred his career.

Da Brat - Three good albums . . . several guest apperances with hot R'n'B divas . . . a prison sentence (one year) . . . a fourth album . . . now in obscurity.

Shyne - Another Bad Boy protégé . . . 2 albums . . . wonderful rapper . . . sentenced to 10 years in prison . . . still serving time . . . I'm waiting for him to come out with at least 5 million hit songs (nigga does have time!)

Prodigy - member of the Rap Group "Mobb Deep" . . . great rapper from the East Coast . . . still serving a 3-year prison sentence . . . I'm waiting for 400 post-incarceration hit songs at least.

Mystikal - one of ma fave rappers . . . unique style . . . great concept . . . 6 albums . . . still serving a 6-year jail term . . . I'm expecting . . . erm . . . 600 post-incarceration hits.

Remy Ma - Terror Squad protégé . . . currently serving an 8-year jail term . . . how many post-incarceration hits should I expect

What's more Need I mention C-Murder, Mac, Tray Deee, etc

Betrayed?? Angry?? Sauron, you're clowning . . .

You get points abeg!!!

Bamsyle:

Lemme see if I can make a modest list of rappers that went to or are still in prison:

Black Rob - released 2 albums, made several guest appearances on Bad Boy's joints, was incarcerated several times . . . the recent sentence being 7 years (Heavens, dude has a lot of time to write a million hits!) . . . he has slipped into oblivion.

DMX - He is even the one I respect most . . . sundry arrests . . . 6 albums . . . prison must not be his driving force cos it's obvious his multiple incarcerations have marred his career.

Da Brat - Three good albums . . . several guest apperances with hot R'n'B divas . . . a prison sentence (one year) . . . a fourth album . . . now in obscurity.

Shyne - Another Bad Boy protégé  . . . 2 albums . . . wonderful rapper . . . sentenced to 10 years in prison . . . still serving time . . . I'm waiting for him to come out with at least 5 million hit songs (nigga does have time!)

Prodigy - member of the Rap Group "Mobb Deep" . . . great rapper from the East Coast . . . still serving a 3-year prison sentence . . . I'm waiting for 400 post-incarceration hit songs at least.

Mystikal - one of ma fave rappers . . . unique style . . . great concept . . . 6 albums . . . still serving a 6-year jail term . . . I'm expecting . . . erm . . . 600 post-incarceration hits.

Remy Ma - Terror Squad protégé . . . currently serving an 8-year jail term . . . how many post-incarceration hits should I expect

What's more Need I mention C-Murder, Mac, Tray Deee, etc

I am disappointed. . . . . . .
None of these rappers is grade A except DMX(who went to Prison in the twilight of his career). . .What could X have offered in 2005??
We are talking about a rapper who just made 'ME AGAINST THE WORLD' on the back of 'STRICTLY FOR MA NIGGAZ' and '2PACALYPSE' and you are mentioning Mystikal, Remy Ma and DMX?? Why not include Paris Hilton and Lil Kim in your list of ex-convicts??

In 2pac's time there was the battle of the Coasts(East/West beef).
There was the battle of record label(Bad Boy/Deathrow) and there was the battle of 2Pac/Biggie.
2 of the best cats in the world then. Imagine if Nas had been locked up during his beef with Jay-Z?? Imagine the euphoria that woulda caused.
U cannot quantify it so equating 'Pac's incarceration with Mystikal and Da Brat is a tad folly.

~Sauron~:

I am disappointed. . . . . . .
None of these rappers is grade A except DMX(who went to Prison in the twilight of his career). . .What could X have offered in 2005??
We are talking about a rapper who just made 'ME AGAINST THE WORLD' on the back of 'STRICTLY FOR MA NIGGAZ' and '2PACALYPSE' and you are mentioning Mystikal, Remy Ma and DMX?? Why not include Paris Hilton and Lil Kim in your list of ex-convicts??

In 2pac's time there was the battle of the Coasts(East/West beef).
There was the battle of record label(Bad Boy/Deathrow) and there was the battle of 2Pac/Biggie.
2 of the best cats in the world then. Imagine if Nas had been locked up during his beef with Jay-Z?? Imagine the euphoria that woulda caused.
U cannot quantify it so equating 'Pac's incarceration with Mystikal and Da Brat is a tad folly.

Oh, so the tide of your argument has changed now . . . all you said was that Pac had time to write songs whilst in prison . . . also, he was annoyed cos he felt betrayed . . . now you allude to being a Grade A rapper or not . . .

At least, you now admit Pac was a Grade A rapper . . . and he had some good albums before his incarceration . . . so what's left to debate on

I've not even delved into the reasons behind the incarceration of these folks . . . you'll agree with me that they all felt betrayed one way or the friggin' other . . . betrayed at the Justice System . . . at the people who got 'em behind bars . . . at the darn society as a whole . . . Heavens, some of 'em even attacked prison warders whilst serving time . . .

Prison is different from the outside world . . . it ain't no place that offers you the amenities to become the saviour of the world . . . the circumstances surrounding Pac's incarceration were enough to kill his dreams . . . and shut him up forever . . . but what did he do He summed it up in "Still I Rise":

"The tribulations of a ghetto kid . . . still I rise".

Bamsyle:
Quit this straight clowning and get a grip yo . . . Jay-Z boycotted but can you quote him for saying anythang

Dude stop dragging this side-argument . . . when you're overrated, it what others think of you
What Kanye thinks of himself is not your business . . . at least not on this topic

Bamsyle: he was real . . . he rapped about issues we can all relate with

I take this as a personal insult to my inteligence . . . your arguments have never been this baseless
Tel me which rappers don't talk about things we can relate with?? I know a guy that felt personally insulted by Hov's 'All the other guys say is gimme' line on Show Me What You Got
Tell me you don't relate with Kanye's 'I'll do anything to say I got it, damn them new loafers hurt my pocket' line on Touch The Sky
What I'm trying to point out is, the reason why they're artistes is because they've got an audience to relate with . . . so it ain't nuffin special.
_{Besides I seriously don't know how you relate with Against All Odds}
I won't come out to say Tupac was wack . . . nah, he wasn't, he's legendary, but was he a little overrated?? All dead rappers are!!!

[size=1pt]Eldee, could you please stop having this much fun[/size]

Bamsyle:

Eldee, you're straight clowning I swear . . .

If we begin to post wack lyrics from Kanye West, NL would suffer multiple seizures . . .

You're grinning at the asinine comments coming from a tramp like Ibime Someone who came here to say Kanye West is wack and you couldn't reply him When you even read his siggy you'll know he's the kinda person you should pay no mind . . . 

I know you argue more intelligently than this . . . better you close that mouth of yours now and face him on that . . . till then I declare you persona non grata . . . 

Hehehe . . . are you Alibaba in disguise??

I've told you . . . I'm a fan of good hiphop, Kanye just happens to be doing good music.
I put his strong points forward, Ibime didn't attack any of 'em points so I have no problem with him
A-40 tried to question Kanye's creativity, that's why I went all out on him . . . you attacked consistency, I went on to prove how flawed your argument was . . . Ibime's thinks Kanye's wack because he speaks plain English . . . that's exactly what I like about him, so no qualms.

When Ibime comes out to say Kanye's not creative or Nas is a crap lyricist . . . then we'll have to open a new topic for him to prove that Ph.D he carries about has his name on it

dejiariyo:

Ok, it appears that our transient society based upon what have you done for me lately has decide to question the noteriety associated with Tu-Pac. Saying that he was over-rated and I guess they were also attempting to imply that he was not a genius or a creative power during his time. Well lets take a look at other misunderstood white icons that society tends to look over their travesties and embellish their contributions to epic proportions. Edgar Allan Poe was an alcoholic, Albert Einstein operated in a childhood state until the age of 25! Oppenheimer was a questionable member of German loyalist? I could continue on and discuss others from earlier eras such as the bi-sexual Julius Cesar or the adulterous whoremongering Alexander the Great. No, I will not take the muck road instead I will only ask that we examine Tu-Pacs' impact on the rap genre in another 2 decades and lets see how future generations view him as overrated or do they see him as a prolific speaker of his time?

Hehehe . . . this is the funniest argument an NLer ever dropped

dejiariyo:
Wayne has a broad
vocabulary, and tells no stories, yet he's the best we have today? Tupac was able to tell a story with a new rhyme scheme, and included a great vocabulary,

Could you please stop embarrassing yourself here
What new rhyme scheme did Tupac bring?? Oh . . . he invented the couplet??
Please stick to your 'head like cocoyam' analysis and save your face.

eldee:

Dude stop dragging this side-argument . . . when you're overrated, it what others think of you
What Kanye thinks of himself is not your business . . . at least not on this topic

Eldee, throw that gbana you're smoking out the window and drink some cold water . . .

Blazin' cyclones . . . I can't believe you just said that . . . it's a side-argument I agree . . . I just threw that 'spanner' in your 'works' . . . to see how you'll react . . . your response is dismal . . .

I can swear I've seen one of your posts on this issue before . . . where you said 2pac exaggerated his gangsta life . . . and for that he's overrated . . . I disagreed . . . now you admit it's only what others think of you that makes you overrated . . . which could be worse - peops claiming he deserved the award or Kanye himself claiming so It's about time . . .  

I take this as a personal insult to my inteligence . . . your arguments have never been this baseless
Tel me which rappers don't talk about things we can relate with??

Are you serious  

Why can't you read between the lines? . . . When I say "relate with", you think it's about "comprehending" what a rapper's saying I mean "simple, everyday issues" . . . 2pac does not try too hard to impress anyone with wordplays et al . . . he raps about everyday issues that you can easily identify with . . . don't make me post some of those metaphysical lines here . . .

Tell me you don't relate with Kanye's 'I'll do anything to say I got it, damn them new loafers hurt my pocket' line on Touch The Sky
What I'm trying to point out is, the reason why they're artistes is because they've got an audience to relate with . . . so it ain't nuffin special.

When I said that about Pac, I wasn't comparing him with Kanye so get a grip.

_{Besides I seriously don't know how you relate with Against All Odds}

Out of the myriads of songs by 2pac, it's this one you can remember . . . simple reason why you lot just can't understand him.

I won't come out to say Tupac was wack

You dare not . . .

. . . nah, he wasn't, he's legendary, but was he a little overrated?? All dead rappers are!!!

Quit dribbling on the touchline . . . cut to the chase!!! He's legendary bla bla but he's overrated . . . maybe all legends are then  So why's Tupac always the issue

All dead rappers are overrated I respect your views El but this comment is most bizarre . . . Big L, Big Pun, Proof, ODB, Freaky Tah, Jam Master Jay, Mista C, Mac Dre, Eazy-E are all overrated How many peops even know Scott LaRock, Doc Doom, Big Hawk, Big Moe, Soulja Slim, Stack Bundles, Stretch, Trouble T-Roy, Yaki Kadafi Are you still the Eldee I thought I knew

Eldee, could you please stop having this much fun

Paraphrased - Eldee, could you please stop smokin' lala??  

eldee:

Hehehe . . . are you Alibaba in disguise??

I've told you . . . I'm a fan of good hiphop, Kanye just happens to be doing good music.
I put his strong points forward, Ibime didn't attack any of 'em points so I have no problem with him
A-40 tried to question Kanye's creativity, that's why I went all out on him . . . you attacked consistency, I went on to prove how flawed your argument was . . . Ibime's thinks Kanye's wack because he speaks plain English . . . that's exactly what I like about him, so no qualms.

When Ibime comes out to say Kanye's not creative or Nas is a crap lyricist . . . then we'll have to open a new topic for him to prove that Ph.D he carries about has his name on it

Aiight . . . no qualms . . . but what worse thing can anyone say about a rapper than alleging that he's wack . . . all I said was he's not hittin' hard with the music like he used to . . . you had time for me . . . Ibiye Ibime comes all out and says he's wack . . . and you grin from ear to ear when he says same thang about Pac . . .

As you can see, that comment was worth a nickel . . . no one's paying him attention.

It is quite plain to see that Eldee has a good head on him. . . . I have placed Bamsyle in the category of 'non-entity' after reading his comment that he thinks Mystikal is a good rapper. . . . it is quite obvious from that statement that we do not listen to the same type of rap. . . . . no wonder he thinks 2Pac, Mystikal, DMX and Dr Dre are great lyricists. . . . I portend that he keeps listening to his jingles whilst the rest of us listen to rap. . . . from his analysis, I would like to hear what he sounds like when spitting since he keeps making noise about it. . . . the signs are not encouraging so far. . . .

eldee:

I've told you . . . I'm a fan of good hiphop, Kanye just happens to be doing good music.
I put his strong points forward, Ibime didn't attack any of 'em points so I have no problem with him
A-40 tried to question Kanye's creativity, that's why I went all out on him . . . you attacked consistency, I went on to prove how flawed your argument was . . . Ibime's thinks Kanye's wack because he speaks plain English . . . that's exactly what I like about him, so no qualms.

When Ibime comes out to say Kanye's not creative or Nas is a crap lyricist . . . then we'll have to open a new topic for him to prove that Ph.D he carries about has his name on it

Kanye is a wack lyricist no question about that. When real HipHop heads (as I take you all to be) convene to discuss 'who is overrated', it should be automatically assumed that we are talking from a lyrical standpoint and nothing else. That includes lyrics, flow and delivery - full stop! We are not here to discuss his status as an 'artiste' or how good his songs/beats and choruses sound. Strictly the nitty gritty. I do not argue about other intangibles because one man's food is another mans poison and we all have our own tastes. However, we should be able to form a defined consensus as to whether someone is a good lyricist or not. It heartens me that Eldee has the gumption not to use the phrase 'good lyricist' in association with Kanye West's name . . . . . unlike blockheads like Bamsyle who attach such titles to deficient rappers without even knowing what the bloodclaaaart he is talking about!

eldee:

Hehehe . . . this is the funniest argument an NLer ever dropped
Could you please stop embarrassing yourself here
What new rhyme scheme did Tupac bring?? Oh . . . he invented the couplet??
Please stick to your 'head like cocoyam' analysis and save your face.

Dont mind them. They would soon tell you Pac invented inrhymes and multisyllables, metaphors and simile's, when in fact he is highly deficient in all of these. If you put on a flat beat, and tell various emcees to rhyme on it, thats where you can dig through the hype and see who is really ill and who is wack.

2Pac brought nothing new to the game lyrically.

As someone said, 2Pac is the standard - but that is not on a lyrical level. He is the standard in terms of pop culture, iconic status, behaviour, emotional disposition and thug attitude, but there is no serious rapper out there trying to copy his lyrical style. Those who have copied it are all wack - Lil Zane, Master P etc.

Those who copy someone like Kool G Rap - name em - Nas, Big Pun, Saigon, etc - so who spawns lyrical greatness more? - 2Pac or Kool G Rap?

Ibime:

It is quite plain to see that Eldee has a good head on him. . . . I have placed Bamsyle in the category of 'non-entity' after reading his comment that he thinks Mystikal is a good rapper. . . . it is quite obvious from that statement that we do not listen to the same type of rap. . . . . no wonder he thinks 2Pac, Mystikal, DMX and Dr Dre are great lyricists. . . . I portend that he keeps listening to his jingles whilst the rest of us listen to rap. . . . from his analysis, I would like to hear what he sounds like when spitting since he keeps making noise about it. . . . the signs are not encouraging so far. . . .

Dear Lord . . . this gay just keeps farting through his fat head . . .

Where did I ever mention lyrics and Mystikal/DMX in the same sentence Plus - so the fact that Mystikal ain't a dope lyricist makes him a wack rapper I can now see your problem . . . some rappers are good cos of their delivery alone . . . Biggie is a most popular example . . . listen to what Ice Cube says in "Gangster Rap Made Me Do It":

". . . And it ain't about chivalry
It's about dope lyrics and delivery"

Nucca a good rapper needs both delivery and impressive lyrics to be noteworthy . . . however, only a handful of rappers are lucky to have that . . . even then, a rapper that has any of the two would still be reckoned with . . .

Like it or leave it, Dr Dre and 2pac are impressive with lyrics . . .

What does Ibime have With the 'egberi papa' English that he speaks . . .

Kanye is a wack lyricist no question about that. When real HipHop heads (as I take you all to be) convene to discuss 'who is overrated', it should be automatically assumed that we are talking from a lyrical standpoint and nothing else. That includes lyrics, flow and delivery - full stop! We are not here to discuss his status as an 'artiste' or how good his songs/beats and choruses sound. Strictly the nitty gritty. I do not argue about other intangibles because one man's food is another mans poison and we all have our own tastes. However, we should be able to form a defined consensus as to whether someone is a good lyricist or not. It heartens me that Eldee has the gumption not to use the phrase 'good lyricist' in association with Kanye West's name . . . . . unlike blockheads like Bamsyle who attach such titles to deficient rappers without even knowing what the bloodclaaaart he is talking about!

Over to you Eldee . . . at least this nerd has declared a full-blown war on ya!

Dont mind them. They would soon tell you Pac invented inrhymes and multisyllables, metaphors and simile's, when in fact he is highly deficient in all of these. If you put on a flat beat, and tell various emcees to rhyme on it, thats where you can dig through the hype and see who is really ill and who is wack.

2Pac brought nothing new to the game lyrically.

As someone said, 2Pac is the standard - but that is not on a lyrical level. He is the standard in terms of pop culture, iconic status, behaviour, emotional disposition and thug attitude, but there is no serious rapper out there trying to copy his lyrical style. Those who have copied it are all wack - Lil Zane, Master P etc.

Those who copy someone like Kool G Rap - name em - Nas, Big Pun, Saigon, etc - so who spawns lyrical greatness more? - 2Pac or Kool G Rap?

You're not saying anything new . . . don't repeat yourself till you turn hoarse

This dude is so emotional. . . . its not like any of us care anyway, rap music is long dead. . . the difference is obviously the difference between a 'rappers rapper' and a 'masses rapper'. . . . . here I was thinking I was debating fellow head, not knowing I was debating a 'professional pundit' like Bamsyle, who never studied the composition of a verse in his life. . . only interested in if it appeals to him sonically and emotionally. . .

Simple, if 2Pac is not the best lyricist (as you agree), nor the best with delivery (his delivery is tight, no doubt, but for me its the full package or bust) and his flow is nowhere near the greatest, then he is definitely OVERRATED if he is in the no1 spot. . .

Also, if you class Mystikals delivery as good, that is your remit, not mine. . . . but he certainly aint no good rapper, delivery notwithstanding. . . .

Emotional? Hehe . . . Assiduous is better . . . I like to get to the bottom of things . . . I try to see if a co-debater is making sensible points . . .

If sonically or emotionally is all I care about, rappers like Nas would have no appeal to me . . . I hate his voice . . . he's not an emotional rapper . . . but check ma list of Top Rappers . . . he'll surely be no.3 . . . it's been like that for ages . . . and I don't see it changing anytime soon . . .

Why're you becoming so distraught over this simple debate This is a "bread and butter" version of some debates I've been engulfed in on NL . . . you're screaming your head off over 2pac, have you ever seen me argue over Nas before Nucca that's a story for another day . . .

Who put 2pac in the no.1 spot Have you ever heard me say that before Pac and Biggie are the only rappers in my A Category . . . I don't care if nerds like Ibime think I'm following popular views . . . I ain't no rebel . . . I won't decide to kick against a popular theory just to make a stupid point . . . if I don't believe it, I don't care if the Universe believes it . . . if I believe it, I don't care if the whole Universe disbelieves it . . . I make my own decisions . . . and the reasons for my decisions are kept close to ma heart . . .

You must be off your tripods . . . Mystikal is a good rapper . . . take that to your Book of Quotable Quotes . . . dry-arse delivery of great lyrics is not all it takes to make a good rapper . . . that's where we differ . . . as much as I love good lyrics, your delivery must be right. You're one of those who make some peops believe that Rap is all about speaking over beats.

Afterall, even Eldee admits that Rap is Music.

This is armaggedon bloody hell what is going on here?

eldee:

Now you're doing a Jackal over one word?? Jocking/Checking . . . release 'em straws bruv
What superlative have I used on him?? Most creative?? He shows improvement?? He's brave?? Dude . . .

He made his hit's with samples . . . so that's why he should hang on the cross upside-down??
It's called SIGNATURE STYLE!!! If sampling has given us great songs like Ether, Mo MoneyMo Problems, even Jay-Z's latest single . . .
Sampling is what he does . . . if he keeps dropping hits, then it's okay with me, and the Grammys too

Personally, I think he's an overrated rapper too . . . but a much too underrated artiste

You coined the song "Homecoming" a metaphorical masterpiece,Creativity at its best come on bruv i don't even have the time to start bringing out others but Good grief 

Now lets talk about samples because it seems the page that defines originality in your dictionary has been torn off and used to wrap the LaLa you have been puffing on are you sure you are not Kanye's lawyer?
How can someone's signature style be sampling? haba how low would you lower your standards to defend Kanye? he has practically made a career out of sampling old tunes and believe it or not that would be his legacy unlike true greats like Tupac and B.I.G its one thing when you have one or two songs that sample old tunes in your album and its another thing when 3 out of 4 of your hit tracks on an album (Late Registration) are sampled

Creativity and Originality are like siamese twins you can't separate them without having complications

PS: Don't get it twisted i love Kanye probably more than you sef but overall he is kinda over-rated

eldee:


A-40 tried to question Kanye's creativity, that's why I went all out on him . . . you attacked consistency, I went on to prove how flawed your argument was . . . Ibime's thinks Kanye's wack because he speaks plain English . . . that's exactly what I like about him, so no qualms.

Don't take yourself too seriously!! your defence for Kanye was not good enough

Interesting debate. . . . . . .

All i can say is. . . .2Pac is overrated!!!
His posthumous albums helped him in many ways than 2pac himself woulda expected.
No one is saying 2Pac ain't legendary but i think he gets more credits than he deserves(I'm being honest here).

@ A-40,

Kanye is a mediocre rapper. . . . .I don't care if he's a ladies man or not but he is extremely overrated.
His lyrics are synonymous to a kid in the 4th grade. He can be catchy when he wants to be but after 'College Dropout' he has been wack.
Eldee like the pop and the mild stylez Kanye deploys in his records but that does not wash with me.

~Sauron~:

Interesting debate. . . . . . .

All i can say is. . . .2Pac is overrated!!!
His posthumous albums helped him in many ways than 2pac himself woulda expected.
No one is saying 2Pac ain't legendary but i think he gets more credits than he deserves(I'm being honest here).

@ A-40,

Kanye is a mediocre rapper. . . . .I don't care if he's a ladies man or not but he is extremely overrated.
His lyrics are synonymous to a kid in the 4th grade. He can be catchy when he wants to be but after 'College Dropout' he has been wack.
Eldee like the pop and the mild stylez Kanye deploys in his records but that does not wash with me.

Naah i don't think 2pac is over-rated his subject matter is just so damned varied one minute he is rapping about riding on his enemies and the next he is talking about single parents before you hit the rewind button he is talking about social injustice and stuff he was the complete rapper who kept it real throughout he didn't spit the abstract shit most so-called lyricists rap about he lived what he spat compared to 99% of rappers that ever flowed on a mic

As for Kanye he is good i won't call him mediocre when people like 50Cent are still around lol but yeah he is over-rated i agree with that intoto

A-40:

Naah i don't think 2pac is over-rated his subject matter is just so damned varied one minute he is rapping about riding on his enemies and the next he is talking about single parents before you hit the rewind button he is talking about social injustice and stuff he was the complete rapper who kept it real throughout he didn't spit the abstract shit most so-called lyricists rap about he lived what he spat compared to 99% of rappers that ever flowed on a mic

His subject matter was too political. . . . .
We heard enough of that from KRS-1 and Public Enemy. He didn't add anything new to the rap game.

As for Kanye he is good i won't call him mediocre when people like 50Cent are still around lol but yeah he is over-rated i agree with that intoto

I would rather listen to 50. . . . . . . .

~Sauron~:

His subject matter was too political. . . . .
We heard enough of that from KRS-1 and Public Enemy. He didn't add anything new to the rap game.

Too political?? His Momma was a black panther his step-father a jailbird what else was he supposed to rap about? Bringing something new to the rap game? he is one of the reasons why rap is so popular around the world 2Pac was bigger than just rap when would you peeps realize that?

~Sauron~:

I would rather listen to 50. . . . . . . .

That wackawickee MC he should do a collabo with Eedris infact word on the street is he is doing the "Marcopolo" remix with Bow Wow and Soulja Boy Tell Em

Arguing on NL Music Section . . . I've been screaming at my TV for two hours, now I'm not allowed to sleep

Bamsyle:

I can swear I've seen one of your posts on this issue before . . . where you said 2pac exaggerated his gangsta life . . . and for that he's overrated . . . I disagreed . . . now you admit it's only what others think of you that makes you overrated . . . which could be worse - peops claiming he deserved the award or Kanye himself claiming so It's about time . . .  

If Tupac exaggerated the gangsta life, and no one cared, then that's he's not overrated
But when someone comes to tell me B.S like, 'he lives everything he spits' . . . that's where his name escapes into this thread.
Nas said on a song that he doesn't want to be placed above Kool-G Rap an Big Daddy Kane on any Top-five list, when a list goes 1.Pac 2.B.IG 3.Nas, then Nas has been overrated on that list.

Bamsyle:

Why can't you read between the lines? . . . When I say "relate with", you think it's about "comprehending" what a rapper's saying I mean "simple, everyday issues" . . . 2pac does not try too hard to impress anyone with wordplays et al . . . he raps about everyday issues that you can easily identify with . . . don't make me post some of those metaphysical lines here . . .

You need to stop dropping these loop-hole quotes . . . you're a lawyer.
Rapping about everyday issues equals 'not trying to impress with wordplays'??
NL is not Freestyle Friday, you're allowed to read through and edit before posting. . . advice from a brother

Bamsyle:

Out of the myriads of songs by 2pac, it's this one you can remember . . . simple reason why you lot just can't understand him.

It's the one I know you can't relate with

Bamsyle:

All dead rappers are overrated I respect your views El but this comment is most bizarre . . . Big L, Big Pun, Proof, ODB, Freaky Tah, Jam Master Jay, Mista C, Mac Dre, Eazy-E are all overrated How many peops even know Scott LaRock, Doc Doom, Big Hawk, Big Moe, Soulja Slim, Stack Bundles, Stretch, Trouble T-Roy, Yaki Kadafi Are you still the Eldee I thought I knew

Dude . . . for heaven's sake, did you have to dig up Home Office records??
Anyways, the extra hype a rapper gets is relative to his his status before death . . . it' common sense bruv.

Bamsyle:

Paraphrased - Eldee, could you please stop smokin' lala??  

Nah, maybe you'll understand when you stop taking things too serious
Them dey pay you for all this boneface??