dayokanu:

I think 2pac is the most popular rap artiste worldwide.HIT EM UP IMO is the most Popular Rap track of all time.

I saw rebels in the Kenyan riots wearing G-Unit apparel . . . obviously fake, but that's how famous modern rappers are.

Did anyone see this CNN Inside Africa report on Hiphop in Northern Nigeria?? this mallam had a vest with Eminem's face . . . he even said 50's his fave rapper
In da club, Mo Money More Problems(Lemon Plus ad), Getin Jiggy With It, You Can't Touch This, Real Slim Shady, I'll Be Missin' You don't be in haste to make that judgement abeg.

eldee:

Popularity?? Come on!!!

Bamsyle is busy shouting Botswana like he's ever been there I'm 100% sure that their pop culture is just a carbon copy of the US and the UK
I'm talking about the devils I know here . . . I know the UK and I know Europe, I know China's where Em's got fans
Ask Jackal, TV broadcasts were interrupted to show Eminem's new video in the UK . . . Pac never got that alive or dead
Eminem is pop culture . . . heck Pac's not even big in the US outside the hiphop circles . . .
And cut that bullcrap bout his work being studied . . . Nas is neither dead nor popular and there are courses on him too

Eminem headlines rock concerts all the time . . . Hov got Glastonbury and they had the slowest sales ever and this is a rapper that's got over 30mil google hits, now compare to Pac

Eminem is a brand, how can you compare his fame to Pac?? Pac died over ten years ago.
Eminem's using his popularity to keep Pac's name alive . . . what, you think people buy Loyal to The Game and those wack albums for legacy??
Negro please . . . you know much better

The news doesn't make celebs, celebs are the news . . . and no, Pac is distant from ever coming on E!
Kanye, Fiddy, Hov and Eminem are everyday names

Pac died almost 13 years ago!! What recent news can they possibly have on him, His decomposition stage?

Do you think Eminem,Fiddy,Kanye would be mentioned in any discussion ten to fifteen years after their death

When last did you watch E! and see news on Elvis Presley or John Lennon? does that mean Justin Timberlake is more popular than them

Loyal to the game was a flop but who do we blame? A dead Tupac or a living Eminem that was responsible for the production of arguably one of Pac's weakest albums

eldee:

Popularity?? Come on!!!

Bamsyle is busy shouting Botswana like he's ever been there I'm 100% sure that their pop culture is just a carbon copy of the US and the UK
I'm talking about the devils I know here . . . I know the UK and I know Europe, I know China's where Em's got fans
Ask Jackal, TV broadcasts were interrupted to show Eminem's new video in the UK . . . Pac never got that alive or dead
Eminem is pop culture . . . heck Pac's not even big in the US outside the hiphop circles . . .

You see the problem with you is that you can't debate any issue without referring to CNN . . .

Seems it's only from CNN that you get all your information . . . Are you kidding me Pac's popularity can't be determined by CNN . . . he was popular before Rap Music became accepted well enough to earn a slot on CNN . . . times have changed . . . we now live in an era where you lot judge a rapper's skills by showmanship and swagga . . . plus the razzmatazz the media would have us believe . . . Pac lived in the Medieval Era of Rap Music . . . an era when peops used to visit music stores to buy CDs, unlike nowadays when folks cop albums online . . .

Unlike 50 Cent, you can mention Eminem's name after 2Pac's when popularity's the issue . . . of course Eminem is popular . . . but then still not as popular as 2pac . . .

You need to hear yourself talk . . . TV broadcasts were interrupted to show Eminem's new video in the UK . . . so what . . . in the UK bruv . . . where else if not UK How could Pac have gotten that . . . in Pac's days Gangsta Rap was anathema in the UK . . . plus they only had Vanilla Ice and other white homo rappers (although even then I can assure you some white folks used ta play Pac's songs when the whole neighbourhood was asleep. Ask Methodman - he said it in one of the skits on the "Blackout!" album) . . .

Eminem burst on the scene after 2pac died and the white community was very glad that they finally had a real rapper . . . unlike the gay rappers they used to have . . . and even with all the acceptance, Em's still not as popular as 2pac . . . the name 2pac is more than a brand . . . it's a force . . . what d'you think inspired names like 2face, 2shotz, 2phat, etc

Heck, if you're an artiste in this internet age and you ain't popular, you need to relocate to another planet . . . the world is now a global village . . . that was not so in Pac's time . . . he got popular through a gradual process . . . by consistently doing really well what he knew how to do best . . .

Pac is big in a mass number of circles in the US outside Hip Hop circles . . . in schools, political circles, Hollywood, even churches . . . they all recognize 2pac and acknowledge what he stands for.

And cut that bullcrap bout his work being studied . . . Nas is neither dead nor popular and there are courses on him too

Eminem headlines rock concerts all the time . . . Hov got Glastonbury and they had the slowest sales ever and this is a rapper that's got over 30mil google hits, now compare to Pac

Eminem is a brand, how can you compare his fame to Pac?? Pac died over ten years ago.
Eminem's using his popularity to keep Pac's name alive . . . what, you think people buy Loyal to The Game and those wack albums for legacy??
Negro please . . . you know much better

The news doesn't make celebs, celebs are the news . . . and no, Pac is distant from ever coming on E!
Kanye, Fiddy, Hov and Eminem are everyday names

You need to quit these alcohol-sodden babbles . . .

I mentioned the fact that Pac's work's being studied just to show that he left a legacy . . . it was in answer to what one joker said about him not having any legacy . . . it was a statement of fact . . . and I wasn't comparing him to Nas when I said that . . . of course I know Nas' work's being studied too . . . and it's because they're both poetic, deep and great rappers with good lyrics . . . if Pac had no lyrics as you lot claim, what would schools be studying about his works Another punch to your misdirected reasoning 

You lot keep talking B.S in here . . . so the fact that Eminem headlines rock concerts, Hov's got Glastonbury and has over 30mil google hits . . . those factors make them more popular than 2pac Blazing cyclones . . . we're talking 'bout a rapper who made Rap Music itself popular . . . a rapper whose name is synonymous with Rap Music . . . a rapper who paved the way for newbies like Eminem and Kanye West to gain acceptance with the genre of music they do . . .

I don't care if Jay-Z has the key to the city of Glastonbury or Eminem becomes the mayor of Detroit . . . mention Rap Music and tell me whose name first pops up in yo' mind

This is the thundering limit . . . Eminem using his popularity to keep Pac's name alive??  . . . you must have gulped 12 bottles of ogogoro before you said . . . and to infer that peops bought "Loyal To The Game" cos of Eminem . . . bruv, you used to be more intelligent than all these crap, what's the schitzo

Talkin' 'bout everyday names, 2pac is more than a name . . . more of a force . . . you don't see him on E! What about MTV BET Is E! the only station you subscribed for (Oops, sorry I forgot CNN . . .  ) . . . Anyways, A-40's already given you a befitting reply to that one . . .

Bob Marley is a force to reckon with in Reggae . . . so because he doesn't appear on E! and doesn't headline shows, Maxi Priest and Wayne Wonder are more popular than he is Are you high off burnt paper

Rock shows my butt . . . you lot need to check your dictionaries for the meaning of "Popularity" . . . cos, going by your strange definition, even Soulja Boy is more popular than 2pac . . . 

eldee:

I saw rebels in the Kenyan riots wearing G-Unit apparel . . . obviously fake, but that's how famous modern rappers are.

Did anyone see this CNN Inside Africa report on Hiphop in Northern Nigeria?? this mallam had a vest with Eminem's face . . . he even said 50's his fave rapper
In da club, Mo Money More Problems(Lemon Plus ad), Getin Jiggy With It, You Can't Touch This, Real Slim Shady, I'll Be Missin' You don't be in haste to make that judgement abeg.

CNN, CNN, and more CNN . . . that's what we hear err'time Eldee's talking . . . 

I also watch CNN . . . but I don't base my judgments on what CNN shows me . . .

G-Unit apparel . . . vest with Eminem's face . . . blah blah blah . . . I also saw a movie a couple of years back where some American dude was wearing a vest with Fela's face . . . this is insignificant to what we're talking about . . .

If wearing vests with rappers' names on 'em is the issue here . . . 2pac would still win hands down . . . I'm yet to see a rapper that has more vests with his face/name inscribed on them than 2pac.

Apart from "U Can't Touch This" (MC Hammer) in that list, "In Da Club", "Mo' Money Mo' Probs", "Gettin' Jiggy With It", "Real Slim Shady", "I'll Be Missing You" . . . all these are not as popular as "California Love", "Hit 'Em Up" and "Dear Mama" . . .

Oh, so Mo' Money Mo' Problems is Lemon Plus ad . . . I'm thrilled . . . WWF WrestleMania 2000's theme song is largely based on 2pac's "California Love" . . . letz not even talk about remixes and movie references . . . "Changes" is the only posthumous song to be nominated for Best Rap Solo Performance at the Grammy Awards (nominated in 2000) . . . Eminem's "Quitter" is partly a remix of "Hit Em Up" . . . "Dear Mama" presented an introspective 2pac and made him much more accepted by the whole world, even critics, for its clean message . . . check a lot of "Top Rap Songs" lists . . . it ranks in the first 10 . . .

Heavens . . . "California Love" would be in the Top 5 most popular rap songs of all times . . . "Hit 'Em Up" is the most popular diss track of all times . . . "Dear Mama" inspired a culture of rappers releasing songs to eulogise their moms . . .

What are you . . . ??

@All 2pac-Is-Overrated Theorists

I challenge you to study his lyrics closely and tell me he doesn't make much more sense than the crap we're forced to listen to nowadays??

One of the probs with you lot is this . . . legends ain't recognized/celebrated well enough until they die . . . when they die, folks get to study their works very well . . . upon realising that they deserved more praise than they got while alive, they begin to give them what they actually deserved before they died . . . their posthumous rating is not in any way bigger than what they deserved when alive . . .

Whilst alive, they were underrated . . . in death, they become properly rated . . .

An example is Nas . . . a lot of folks be underrating his stuff right now . . . when he dies, he'll be immortalised . . . folks would then begin to shower praises due to him while alive . . .

Tell me how that equates overrating

Can we move on How about Prince, Britney Spears, Ashlee Simpson, etc for a change?? 

A-40:

Pac died almost 13 years ago!! What recent news can they possibly have on him, His decomposition stage?

Do you think Eminem,Fiddy,Kanye would be mentioned in any discussion ten to fifteen years after their death

When last did you watch E! and see news on Elvis Presley or John Lennon? does that mean Justin Timberlake is more popular than them

Loyal to the game was a flop but who do we blame? A dead Tupac or a living Eminem that was responsible for the production of arguably one of Pac's weakest albums

I'm not trying to predict what will happen if Em died tomorrow . . . that's not my business
What I'm saying is . . . as at the time of posting this reply, Pac is not as popular as Eminem or 50Cent . . . c'est fini
Erm bout the album, I'll like to place a lil emphasis on the fact that, Em's album production skills . . . nan of me bizness . . . but his marketing?? top of the league . . .gave Tupac a posthumous platinum.

Oh . . . my freaking days!!! Tell me you're not bringing Elvis and John Lennon into this!!! What next? MJ??
These people had careers that lasted decades . . . they had 2-4 generations of fans . . . Pac's career was just six years, his influence was superficial compared to the John Lennons and MJs of this world.
Elvis is King of Rock and Roll . . . half of the hiphop community didn't agree that Pac was the greatest, even at his prime.

Pac and Eminem/50/Jay-Z are in the same generation of music, and even then, things like the innovations in the internet, the mass media and even the invention of the mp3 have given late 90s/2000 rappers an extra edge over the Pacs and Rakims.
Nowadays, people in Bamsyle's Botswana have the internet and satellite TV to follow Jay-Z's Glastonbury concert on BBC

Drop sentiments and see where I'm coming from . . .

Bamsyle, Bamsyle, Bamsyle

You and these epistles . . . I'll trade anything to be in one of 'em Drop a line and get out threads
Anyways . . . I'll reply as soon as I get enough time to finish reading

eldee:

. . . as at the time of posting this reply, Pac is not as popular as Eminem or 50Cent . . . c'est fini

Evidence/References please

Peops be saying stuff they know nutin about . . . back up your assertions with evidence . . . did you rod polls to arrive at this conclusion Pac's albums, vests, pictures, movies, etc are everywhere on planet Earth so I wonder if you're from another planet . . .

. . .gave Tupac a posthumous platinum.

Thatz not a big deal . . . it's a case of saying Eminem made great what was already great . . . you can't trade with Pac and lose . . . 

The documentary "Resurrection" . . . narrated by 2pac himself . . . is the 11th highest-selling documentary film in the United States as at last year . . . Eminem's not the only dude that ever produced a posthumous platinum . . . he did that to show respect to one of his idols . . . you may not be aware of this . . . one of Eminem's fave rap songs is "Dear Mama" 

Oh . . . my freaking days!!! Tell me you're not bringing Elvis and John Lennon into this!!! What next? MJ??
These people had careers that lasted decades . . . they had 2-4 generations of fans . . . Pac's career was just six years, his influence was superficial compared to the John Lennons and MJs of this world.
Elvis is King of Rock and Roll

A-40 brought that in to show you how flawed your argument is on the E! Theory . . . I asked you about Bob Marley . . . when was the last time you saw these dudes on E!?? So then, going by your argument, can I say Lucky Dube and Maxi Priest are more popular than Bob Marley?? Or Justin Timberlake is more popular than Elvis/Lennon

They may have careers that spanned ten milleniums . . . that means shiite . . . Pac's 6-year career did not end after his death . . . you're here arguing your arse off over him . . . that's one pointer to that fact . . . his influence was not superficial . . . he elevated the rap game . . . he has influenced a countless number of rappers . . . just last year, the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame plus another organization acknowledged him as a very influential artist . . . he was included in their Definitive 200 list . . . six years after his demise, he was inducted into the Hip Hop Hall of Fame . . . the list goes on . . . to round it off, he's the most talked about dead rapper/artiste in music history . . . too many conspiracy theories about him . . . some peops believe he's still alive . . . 

. . . half of the hiphop community didn't agree that Pac was the greatest, even at his prime.

Again, evidence/refs bruv?? . . . Eldee is not half of the Hip Hop Community . . .

Do you watch MTV?? . . . 7 years after 2pac's death, MTV viewers voted him as the "number 1 MC" when MTV was compiling its "22 Greatest MCs" List . . . not to talk of the MTV list of "the Greatest MCs of All Time" . . . also in 2004, voters, during a Vibe Magazine poll rated him as "the greatest rapper of all time" . . .

Pac and Eminem/50/Jay-Z are in the same generation of music, and even then, things like the innovations in the internet, the mass media and even the invention of the mp3 have given late 90s/2000 rappers an extra edge over the Pacs and Rakims.
Nowadays, people in Bamsyle's Botswana have the internet and satellite TV to follow Jay-Z's Glastonbury concert on BBC

Yeah I agree . . . the internet was not popular in Pac's time . . . but even with all that, the late 90s/2000s rappers all waxed together are still not as popular as 2Pac . . . his fame continues to spread by the day . . . peops are always interested in knowing the locus classicus of anything . . . it's impossible to claim you know Rap Music without knowing 2pac . . . 

Drop sentiments and see where I'm coming from . . .

It's a mutual thing bruv . . . 

eldee:

Bamsyle, Bamsyle, Bamsyle

You and these epistles . . . I'll trade anything to be in one of 'em Drop a line and get out threads
Anyways . . . I'll reply as soon as I get enough time to finish reading

Yeah . . . same here bruv . . . I look forward to when peops like Eldee would stop arguing without any proof/references so I'll have less work to do . . . I love debates that are backed by evidence . . .

Happy reading bruv . . .

m

Bamsyle, didn't I warn you you're too intellectual to be arguing with certain people? Can you please recommend some 2pac songs for me? Just list the classic ones you know, i wanna add more to my collection. You know one can never finish listening to pac, it's like he never died.

As for the person using the E! as a yardstick to measure popularity, I wonder what E! you watch. Videos relating to his death are continuously shown on the E! That was where I first saw it. So, what's your point?

Besides, not to be racist 'cause I love Eminem but everybody knows the E! is basically a white channel so it isn't so surprising to find Em on there. They mostly focus on the glamor lives of the paris hiltons of the world, it's basically a gossip channel. It's very stupid of one to use that channel when discussing 2pac, like wtf?

I'm arguing with Bamsyle, A-40 and Sauron, I don't expect every letter I say to be taken literally, when I mention E!, every idiot knows I'm talking about today's mass-media.
What's the point of restricting the number of people I argue with if I still have to deal with pips that are incapable of thinking outside the box??

@Bamsyle
I'll have to speed up my reply to your last post

1. Proof?? C'mon Bamsyle, sales in different countries, references in popular culture, diversity of concert audiences, and funny as it sounds even Search Engine referrals(Eminem, 50 and Hov have double Pac's Google hits) . . . even personal experiences(You don't need a degree in Music Technology to know who's hot in Nigeria, it's even easier in the UK) . . . do your homework and get back at me (we all know bout your wiki skills)

2. Aight . . . I respect that but did any of Pac's movies sell $242 mill?? And to think Pac was a better actor. This is the power of modern marketing strategies.

3. And I've proven to you that my mass media argument only applies to artistes whose careers started in this generation of music.
Dude . . . please drop these wikipedia yarns, I'm talking about popularity here not talent. Rakim influenced a majority of the 90s rappers, how popular is he??
He's the most talked about dead artiste?? LOL!!! Bamsyle . . . no offence, but you need some cultural exposure up in your life.

4. Eldee's not half the hiphop community . . . hell, Eldee's not even in the hiphop community. I'm talking about the half that said Notorious B.I.G was the better artiste.
Bout that . . . they told them to vote for the best not most popular . . . dig??

Had to quote this one

Yeah I agree . . . the internet was not popular in Pac's time . . . but even with all that, the late 90s/2000s rappers all waxed together are still not as popular as 2Pac . . . his fame continues to spread by the day . . .

Coming from someone that says I don't have proof . . . u're a joker bruv

peops are always interested in knowing the locus classicus of anything . . . it's impossible to claim you know Rap Music without knowing 2pac . .

I beg to differ . . . in my own opinion (which Ihappen to share with Nas) people are more superficial these days
They tend to forget about the origins and just go for what the media presents to them . . . how, for Bleep's sake do you think rappers like 50 and Lil Wayne sell that much in this era of poor albums sales?? two words Media Hype!!!

In the ideal world . . . Pac should be more popular the 50 and Em put together . . . but come on!!!

You just echoed my point . . . people that claim to know rap know Pac, but what of people that couldn't care less bout hiphop . . . that's where Jay-Z and Eminem come in.
Cutting through gender, ethnicity and social class . . . Jay-Z and Eminem did that
Tupac was in an era where he had to battle a moral panic that was constructed against hiphop, modern day rappers reaped the fruits of his labour.

Eminem is bigger than Pac. The numbers say so,  No offence to Pac or his fans but those are just the facts.

Besides, I'm not convinced Pac is a better artist than eminem. They just do different things, and Eminem is very very good at what he does, regardless of how juvenile or "unreal" we think it is.

eldee:

I'm not trying to predict what will happen if Em died tomorrow . . . that's not my business
What I'm saying is . . . as at the time of posting this reply, Pac is not as popular as Eminem or 50Cent . . . c'est fini

And 2Pac is more popular than Eminem and Fiddy can ever hope to be.Terminado

eldee:

Erm bout the album, I'll like to place a lil emphasis on the fact that, Em's album production skills . . . nan of me bizness . . . but his marketing?? top of the league . . .gave Tupac a posthumous platinum.

Why do you keep raving about this Loyal to the Game album? anyone who didn't know better would think that the album was the first and only of Pac's posthumous albums that went platinum EM deserves no credit because Pac is arguably the easiest rap brand to sell,Marketing skills my pitch-black ass!! 2Pac is like McDonalds and Coca-cola they are not exactly hard sells if EM wants to show his marketing skills let him market any or all of his D12 compadres and lets see how much they would sell! U think say na beans?
The album still sold despite EM's below par production which only show that Pac is still relevant in the game

Did you know that Until the end of time went 3X platinum with just one single?

eldee:

Oh . . . my freaking days!!! Tell me you're not bringing Elvis and John Lennon into this!!! What next? MJ??
These people had careers that lasted decades . . . they had 2-4 generations of fans . . . Pac's career was just six years, his influence was superficial compared to the John Lennons and MJs of this world.
Elvis is King of Rock and Roll . . . half of the hiphop community didn't agree that Pac was the greatest, even at his prime.

You are digging a hole and i am going to bury you in it i was trying to show you how ridiculous your theory was son how can you possibly use appearances on E! as a criteria to measure the popularity of a rapper? next thing we know you would use Al-Jazeera or National Geographic

I watch E! almost on a daily and there is always news on Paris Hilton or Miley Cyrus but does that make them more popular than say a Celine Dion?I hope you see how weak your example was?

Elvis was the King of Rock and Roll of course did he have any competition back in the day? The hiphop community is not a united one so expecting a common consensus on who is the best is rather naive or do we have coastal wars in Rock and Roll too?

eldee:

Pac and Eminem/50/Jay-Z are in the same generation of music,
Nowadays, people in Bamsyle's Botswana have the internet and satellite TV to follow Jay-Z's Glastonbury concert on BBC

Drop sentiments and see where I'm coming from . . .

Naah Pac came out way earlier than EM and Fiddy or would you class Shaggy and Shabba Ranks with say a Beanie Man?

eldee:

and even then, things like the innovations in the internet, the mass media and even the invention of the mp3 have given late 90s/2000 rappers an extra edge over the Pacs and Rakims.

So are you telling me now that MP3 is not compatible with songs done before 2000? or what do you mean?

A-40:

And 2Pac is more popular than Eminem and Fiddy can ever hope to be.Terminado
Why do you keep raving about this Loyal to the Game album? anyone who didn't know better would think that the album was the first and only of Pac's posthumous albums that went platinum EM deserves no credit because Pac is arguably the easiest rap brand to sell,Marketing skills my pitch-black ass!! 2Pac is like McDonalds and Coca-cola they are not exactly hard sells if EM wants to show his marketing skills let him market any or all of his D12 compadres and lets see how much they would sell! U think say na beans?
The album still sold despite EM's below par production which only show that Pac is still relevant in the game

Eminem is one of the best selling rappers of all time . . . he's proven that he can sell to different sides of the musical/ethnic/class/Atlantic divide
His work?? Fiddy . . . you have to admit that Em had a hand in 50's rise to fame . . .

Step outside he box and look at this . . . Pac, Em, Jay-Z, LilWayne all belong to the hiphop generation of contemporary music.

The E! thing?? My dayzz . . . are you a 16 year old chic in disguise??
For heaven's sake I expect more than this straw-clutching from you . . . you're intelligent, I made a statement bout the mass media and I put E! there and you're telling me you took 'E!' literally??
So when next I say Uncle Tom, I'm talking bout my uncle?? This is ridiculous.
Aiite, let me explain this to you, the way I'll explain to erm . . . Chiogo, E! in the context I used it was just symbolism for the mass media and the way they portray celebs these days. . .
Ever heard of E!-status??

Come on . . . you know bout 70% of music sales take place in the year of release . . . given that fact, it's easier for new songs from this time to be downloaded, both legally and illegally, in dfferent countries round the world.
That's just one edge over the Rakims because people download Jay-Z while the hype is high. The 0.75p single download means it's faster to get to listen to artistes.
This was impossible in the early 90s.

eldee:

Eminem is one of the best selling rappers of all time . . . he's proven that he can sell to different sides of the musical/ethnic/class/Atlantic divide

And errm Pac is what?? one of the best selling Reggaeton acts of all time?

eldee:

His work?? Fiddy . . . you have to admit that Em had a hand in 50's rise to fame . . .

Ohh and you are just gonna leave out Dr Dre right? you gave Em credit for moving one of the lowest numbers among Pac's posthumous albums and i proved your theory ridiculous.Shikena

eldee:

The E! thing?? My dayzz . . . are you a 16 year old chic in disguise??
For heaven's sake I expect more than this straw-clutching from you . . . you're intelligent, I made a statement bout the mass media and I put E! there and you're telling me you took 'E!' literally??
So when next I say Uncle Tom, I'm talking bout my uncle?? This is ridiculous.
Aiite, let me explain this to you, the way I'll explain to erm . . . Chiogo, E! in the context I used it was just symbolism for the mass media and the way they portray celebs these days. . .
Ever heard of E!-status??

What are you an escapologist or a spin-doctor? why didn't you come up with a much more meaningful analogy? any other network would have been fine with me BET,VH1 but freaking E! please admit you made a faux-pas in that argument and lets keep it moving

eldee:

Come on . . . you know bout 70% of music sales take place in the year of release . . . given that fact, it's easier for new songs from this time to be downloaded, both legally and illegally, in dfferent countries round the world.
That's just one edge over the Rakims because people download Jay-Z while the hype is high. The 0.75p single download means it's faster to get to listen to artistes.
This was impossible in the early 90s.

Which is why you should give Pac even more credit for his numbers he would probably be moving Country Musicians and Rock and Roll artiste numbers if he where around now

A-40:

And errm Pac is what?? one of the best selling Reggaeton acts of all time?

Pac used to be one of the most popular rappers . . . till the hype over his death died down
Evidence?? his best selling album was the one released immediately after his death, when the hype was there . . .
Believe it or not, his best selling studio album sold bout 3 plat immediately after his death.

And that's just album sales, don't let's go to other measures of popularity.

A-40:

Ohh and you are just gonna leave out Dr Dre right? you gave Em credit for moving one of the lowest numbers among Pac's posthumous albums and i proved your theory ridiculous.Shikena

Lol. . . but I've just proven that Em had a hand in building the popularity of another popular post 2000 rapper

A-40:

What are you an escapologist or a spin-doctor? why didn't you come up with a much more meaningful analogy? any other network would have been fine with me BET,VH1 but freaking E! please admit you made a faux-pas in that argument and lets keep it moving

You see why I like arguing with you . . . you're not scared to admit facts
It's easy to see that your beef is with E! Entertainment not the point I was driving at
Whatever helps you sleep at night bruv . . . as long as you get the message

A-40:

Which is why you should give Pac even more credit for his numbers he would probably be moving Country Musicians and Rock and Roll artiste numbers if he where around now

EXACTLY!!! Finally we agree on something!!!
You are coming from 'he would have . . .' I agree . . . he would probably be selling 12 plat, he would probably be the only hiphop artiste selling records, he would probably be the face of Coca-Cola, he would probably be the one topping Box-Office Charts, he would probably be the one selling out tickets in Tanzania, Angola, Nigeria and South Africa . . . yeah China and Australia too . . . but nah . . . he's not around so we'll never know.

eldee:

Pac used to be one of the most popular rappers . . . till the hype over his death died down
Evidence?? his best selling album was the one released immediately after his death, when the hype was there . . .
Believe it or not, his best selling studio album sold bout 3 plat immediately after his death.

And that's just album sales, don't let's go to other measures of popularity.

Have you gone loco? Till the end of time went 3X platinum 5 years after his death it sold the most number of units for a rap album in a year where albums like Blueprint 2 and Stillmatic came out, so that means 5 years on 2Pac was still the man and not immediately after his death like you seem to claim.You are even starting to sound like he lived up the hype of his death and thats why he was so successful conveniently forgetting that he sold records while he was alive as well.All Eyez on me sold 9 mili! Kilumnati sold 4

eldee:

Lol. . . but I've just proven that Em had a hand in building the popularity of another popular post 2000 rapper

Don't be a clown you attributed Loyal to the Game's success (which was a flop sef compared to 2pac's other albums) to Eminem and his popularity and i have proven to you that the reverse was the case!! surely you can come up with a better defence than that

eldee:

You see why I like arguing with you . . . you're not scared to admit facts
It's easy to see that your beef is with E! Entertainment not the point I was driving at
Whatever helps you sleep at night bruv . . . as long as you get the message

You got it twisted bruv,I have no beef with E! i watch it! but that is not exactly the station that should shape your opinion on rap music heck its like ESPN telling me Scarlett Johansson is the best dressed celebrity when we all know ESPN is not exactly an authority when it comes to fashion
Admit you got it wrong there's no harm in that i am not your teacher and i wont flog you

eldee:

EXACTLY!!! Finally we agree on something!!!
You are coming from 'he would have . . .' I agree . . . he would probably be selling 12 plat, he would probably be the only hiphop artiste selling records, he would probably be the face of Coca-Cola, he would probably be the one topping Box-Office Charts, he would probably be the one selling out tickets in Tanzania, Angola, Nigeria and South Africa . . . yeah China and Australia too . . . but nah . . . he's not around so we'll never know.

His last three albums where huge commercial successes so yeah there is nothing saying all these things wont have happened but thats besides the point what irks me is your stubborn refusal to give him credit he was successful in life and death not too many artistes can boast of that

eldee:

I'm arguing with Bamsyle, A-40 and Sauron, I don't expect every letter I say to be taken literally, when I mention E!, every idiot knows I'm talking about today's mass-media.
What's the point of restricting the number of people I argue with if I still have to deal with pips that are incapable of thinking outside the box??

Eldee, quit this debate about E! . . . just like A-40 noted, you'll have done better if you mentioned BET, MTV or VHF . . . and you know very well that 2pac still pops up very frequently in all those stations . . . of course I suspected that you might have used E! as a generic name for the mass media . . . but using E! is a lame move . . . we all know what E! stands for . . . when talking 'bout music artistes, E! should not be a channel of reference!

@Bamsyle
I'll have to speed up my reply to your last post

1. Proof?? C'mon Bamsyle, sales in different countries, references in popular culture, diversity of concert audiences, and funny as it sounds even Search Engine referrals(Eminem, 50 and Hov have double Pac's Google hits) . . . even personal experiences(You don't need a degree in Music Technology to know who's hot in Nigeria, it's even easier in the UK) . . . do your homework and get back at me (we all know bout your wiki skills)

Saying I'm disappointed at what you've got up there is an understatement . . . no, this cannot be Eldee . . . this has gotta be Eldee's 8-year old niece!!!

2pac has all those indices you got up there . . . and even more . . . I'll address only the 3rd and 4th ones . . . they're the only ones which seem to have a semblance of substance . . .

1. Diversity of Concert audiences?? You're the one not steppin' outta the friggin' box here bruv . . . agreed Pac was into hardcore rap . . . but don't tell me that his concerts would pull only a rap audience . . . songs like "How Do You Want It"/"Thug N You Thug N Me" with KCi and Jojo . . . what audience would that pull?? What audience would so many of his songs that have been remixed with appearances from a lotta R'n'B divas pull?? Toni Braxton and Jay-Z must have a reason for sampling his "Me & My Girlfriend" . . . R. Kelly must have a reason for doing a remix of "I Wish" feat 2pac . . . Brandy must have a reason for featuring Pac on "Right Here" . . .

El, you're beginning to give anotha impression of you . . . you've said it times without number on this forum that "Rap is music" so what are you now saying?? Music is all about experimenting . . . the mere fact that 2pac never lived long enough to experiment with pop, R'n'B, rock artistes, etc does not mean his songs cannot cut across all these audiences . . . you continue to make assertions in here without any proof . . . are you forgetting the goodwill/love that 2pac enjoys from all over the world . . . 50 Cent said it in "In Da Club":

". . . I want them to love me like they love 'Pac" . . . Nuff said on that . . .

2. Google Search?? Like A-40 asked you before, what else d'you wanna know about 2pac?? His decomposition stage?? Hov, Fiddy, Em are all alive . . . there's always news on 'em . . . it's not friggin' news that peops hit google to gather the latest information on their shows and whatever . . . now compare them with 2pac who died more than a decade ago . . . and you lot just wouldn't let him be . . .

Who's hot in Nigeria?? El, you're on some unhealthy pill I swear . . .

2. Aight . . . I respect that but did any of Pac's movies sell $242 mill?? And to think Pac was a better actor. This is the power of modern marketing strategies.

How does this affect your theory on popularity

3. And I've proven to you that my mass media argument only applies to artistes whose careers started in this generation of music.
Dude . . . please drop these wikipedia yarns, I'm talking about popularity here not talent. Rakim influenced a majority of the 90s rappers, how popular is he??
He's the most talked about dead artiste?? LOL!!! Bamsyle . . . no offence, but you need some cultural exposure up in your life.

Rakim influenced a majority of the 90s rappers . . . he's not popular, agreed . . . that's why I'm telling you that when you're talkin' 'bout Pac, don't talk like you're talkin' bout Rakim, KRS-One or Kool G. Rap . . . someone earlier alleged that these pioneers are more popular than 2pac . . . I said no . . . someone even said that he's more well known as a pop figure/icon of Rap Music . . . Eldee believes that should go to the Ems and Fiddys of this world . . . you see where you lot are contradicting one another/missing the point 2pac, unlike Rakim, was not only influential . . . he is very popular!!!

He's the most talked about dead artiste . . . take that to your Book of Quotes . . . you lot keep cooking up myriads of conspiracy theories about him . . . he's overrated, he's alive, he wasn't a true gangstar, he was to blame for the East/West Coast beef, etc . . .

And drop all those rabbles about wikipedia . . . a Bamsyle that quotes wiki or any other reliable source to back his points is better than an Eldee who just makes sweeping statements without proof/evidence . . . no one was born with all the knowledge in the world in his head . . . even after going to school, we all need to read regularly to update our knowledge . . . it's common knowledge that our generation has lost the art of reading . . . we prefer to sit before the TV all day . . . if peops like Eldee read regularly, instead of watching CNN all day, we wouldn't be having this debate . . .  

4. Eldee's not half the hiphop community . . . hell, Eldee's not even in the hiphop community. I'm talking about the half that said Notorious B.I.G was the better artiste.
Bout that . . . they told them to vote for the best not most popular . . . dig??

I'm glad you said that . . . Bamsyle's also not in the Hip Hop Community . . .

And this is where I always ask for refs . . . it's sickening when peops say things like half of the world said . . . just cos two or more of your friends say sumn . . . they don't become a community . . . MTV's List of "Greatest MCs of All Time" had 2pac before Biggie . . . so what are you saying . . . and if you'd taken time to read the behind-the-polls ratings, Pac almost took the no.1 spot . . . and don't drag me into a 2pac/Biggie debate . . . cos you won't succeed on that one . . . I've always stated that I rate both MCs as equals . . . I have ma reasons for saying that . . . nuff said.

And this is where you contradict yourself again . . . they told voters to vote for the best . . . they voted 2pac . . . and you said that half the Hip Hop Community say Biggie's the better artiste . . . can you please tell us who the faceless members of this community are

Had to quote this oneComing from someone that says I don't have proof . . . u're a joker bruv

Throw away the cheap blunt you've been blazin' and read my earlier posts . . . I'm sure you still haven't had the time to read 'em . . . you don't read El . . . but you have time to watch CNN . . .  I stated basic facts on why Pac's more popular than your so-called 90s/2000s MCs . . . so read and get back to me . . .

I beg to differ . . . in my own opinion (which Ihappen to share with Nas) people are more superficial these days
They tend to forget about the origins and just go for what the media presents to them . . . how, for Bleep's sake do you think rappers like 50 and Lil Wayne sell that much in this era of poor albums sales?? two words Media Hype!!!

You're completely wrong . . . Tupac Amaru Shakur is the locus classicus . . . the numero uno . . . the e pluribus unum . . . the very first name in Rap Music . . . you don't need to conduct a search into the history of Rap Music to know that . . . it's the first thing you know when you come into contact with Rap . . . forget all these your album sales gibberish . . . it's irrelevant to the issue at hand . . .

In the ideal world . . . Pac should be more popular the 50 and Em put together . . . but come on!!!

You just echoed my point . . . people that claim to know rap know Pac, but what of people that couldn't care less bout hiphop . . . that's where Jay-Z and Eminem come in.
Cutting through gender, ethnicity and social class . . . Jay-Z and Eminem did that
Tupac was in an era where he had to battle a moral panic that was constructed against hiphop, modern day rappers reaped the fruits of his labour.

Peops that have a fair knowledge of Music . . . peops that know anything at all about Music . . . they know Pac . . . whether for good or bad . . . whether from having listened to his songs . . . or from the things they've heard about him . . .

Gender?? "Keep Ya Head Up" and "Dear Mama" are easy answers to that . . . Ethnicity and Social Class?? "Changes" would easily handle that . . .

Did you say moral panic?? He battled the moral panic to obscurity . . . his music is widely accepted today . . . and if moral panic's the issue, what gives you the impression that it's still not there today?? Again, read Eldee . . . surf the net . . . read the comments that the misogynyst and homophobic themes in Eminem's songs are generating . . . songs like "Real Slim Shady" . . . read comments on his latest song "We Made You" . . . where he insulted peops like Sarah Palin, etc . . . I still read one on Yahoo a couple of days ago . . .

Just make an attempt . . . it's not that difficult to read . . .  

chiogo:

Bamsyle, didn't I warn you you're too intellectual to be arguing with certain people? Can you please recommend some 2pac songs for me? Just list the classic ones you know, i wanna add more to my collection. You know one can never finish listening to pac, it's like he never died.

I should have listened to you . . .

Hmm . . . listing his classics is a herculean task quite alright as one can't list them all . . . I'll try . . . I'm not sure you have some of these . . . but I think you'll love them:

Thug Passion
Heavy In The Game
Happy Home
Wanted Dead or Alive (aka Gangsta Party with Snoop Dogg)
All About You
Fame
Road Dogs
Late Nite
When We Ride
If I Die Tonite
Temptations
Whatz Ya Phone Number
Changed Man
Heartz of Men
Last Ones Left
Lil' Homies
Heaven Ain't Hard To Find
Thru My Rear View
Hold Ya Head
Only Fear of Death
Trading War Stories
Blasphemy
Old Skool
Just Like Daddy
Krazy
Holla At Me
Lord Knows
When Thugz Cry
My Block
Ghetto Gospel (feat Elton John)
Toss It Up
To Live And Die In LA
They Don't Give A F**k About Us
Can't C Me
Teardrops And Closed Caskets
Tatto Tears
Smile (feat Scarface)
Thugz Mansion (feat Anthony Hamilton)
Hell Razor
Fair Exchange
In The Air Tonite (feat Phil Collins)
Trapped
Ballad of A Dead Soulja
Nigga Nature
Untouchable (feat Bone Thugz N Harmony)
Pac's Life

@A-40
I get where you're coming from
I might unconsciously implied that Pac wasn't successful in his lifetime, but you have to agree that his death increased the hype on him
He was one of the most popular rappers of that era, he dwarfed the Rakims and the East Coast(not B.I.G though) . . . and even after his death he still was, but this hype cannot remain constant for 13 years, it dips slowly.
And other artistes rise to fame . . . people have their periods
Pop Culture is Chicago . . . erm this is metaphor, Chiogo beware

This E! issue . . .lol.
Now let me focus on this, I didn't want to use MTV or VH1, because they are more into contemporary urban music . . . that's still basically another hiphop circle.
What better example than an Entertainment company that has White America and Europe as its major demographic??
And yeah . . . the only thing they do s worship the idols of pop culture
As I said, you got my point, if you give me a better example, I'll gladly correct myself.

As I said, I'm not Elstradamus (never predicted an Arsenal result correctly before ), but maybe if Pac were still here, he'ld probably be the one doing all those things I listed, but nah, he's dead and now it's the Ems and Hovs doing it.
And yeah . . . as you pointed out, he didn't have enough time to do that in his lifetime, that's the first thing I mentioned in my post.
Jay-Z waited till what?? 2003 before he reached out to the rock audience, Eminem is white but he waited till the third album
We both agree on something at least . . . Moonstone is sumwhere hating this

@Bamsyle
A wise man once said 'you think arguing with the learned is hard?? try the ignorant Bamsyle' Just kidding
Now tell me how I'll get across to someone that thinks Tupac is the most talked about dead artiste
No offence, Bamsyle . . . but maybe you should just stick to hiphop . . . other genres don't suit you

@Eldee

That's a weak comeback man . . . and you know it.

For someone who claims Eminem's more popular than Pac cos he sells in different countries and peops wear his T-shirts/vests . . . I wonder if you meant to post that in the Jokes Section . . . 

Another wise man said this:

As hunger is cured by food, so ignorance is cured by study. I'll say it again . . . do your research . . . dig up facts . . . making general assertions ain't enough . . .

Thanks on the Hip Hop thingy . . . maybe when this debate is over . . . I'll be able to decide on the genre that suits you . . . but for now . . . erm . . . I'm sorry but even Hip Hop is out of it.

eminem is more popular than 2pac can ever be.

bamsyle and a-40 of all people should know that.

eminem is the saviour of the urban white kids. as long as he is white, they want his music.

the whites in america who can afford records are more than the blacks(case closed).

there's no mortal on this planet that does not know eminem(the white rapper).

superstan:

eminem is more popular than 2pac can ever be.

bamsyle and a-40 of all people should know that.

eminem is the saviour of the urban white kids. as long as he is white, they want his music.

the whites in america who can afford records are more than the blacks(case closed).

there's no mortal on this planet that does not know eminem(the white rapper).

From your screenname its not hard to tell that you are biased towards Eminem so debating with you is an exercise in futility i think you need to go through an Encarta and decipher the meaning of the word popularity because popularity does not start and end with white kids and white america

Bamsyle:

I should have listened to you . . . 

Hmm . . . listing his classics is a herculean task quite alright as one can't list them all . . . I'll try . . . I'm not sure you have some of these . . . but I think you'll love them:

Thug Passion
Heavy In The Game
Happy Home
Wanted Dead or Alive (aka Gangsta Party with Snoop Dogg)
All About You
Fame
Road Dogs
Late Nite
When We Ride
If I Die Tonite
Temptations
Whatz Ya Phone Number
Changed Man
Heartz of Men
Last Ones Left
Lil' Homies
Heaven Ain't Hard To Find
Thru My Rear View
Hold Ya Head
Only Fear of Death
Trading War Stories
Blasphemy
Old Skool
Just Like Daddy
Krazy
Holla At Me
Lord Knows
When Thugz Cry
My Block
Ghetto Gospel (feat Elton John)
Toss It Up
To Live And Die In LA
They Don't Give A F**k About Us
Can't C Me
Teardrops And Closed Caskets
Tatto Tears
Smile (feat Scarface)
Thugz Mansion (feat Anthony Hamilton)
Hell Razor
Fair Exchange
In The Air Tonite (feat Phil Collins)
Trapped
Ballad of A Dead Soulja
Nigga Nature
Untouchable (feat Bone Thugz N Harmony)
Pac's Life

Gee. . .thanks. .I only have two of the above listed - 'when thugs cry' and 'hold your head'. I've been speculating getting some of 'em and the rest. .I had no idea about 'em. Well, thanks. Even in death, he has so many songs, well I rest my case regarding the 'hard working' issue.

You're welcome . . . all the listed songs are Pac in his introspective elements . . . I think he's at his best at such moments . . . you'll particularly love the hooks for:

Thug Passion
Heavy In The Game
Happy Home
Wanted Dead or Alive
All About You
Whatz Ya Phone Number
My Block
Ghetto Gospel
Toss It Up
To Live And Die In LA
Smile
Thugz Mansion
Fair Exchange
In The Air Tonite
Nigga Nature

Another one you'll love: Mama's Just A Little Girl.

Aww, Ok, thanks. . .I'll check 'em out.