rich_john:

I'm not supporting mazaje in anyway! but to call him blasphemer is wrong. If he's quoting something from the bible you and I CARRY ABOUT AND YOU CANT EXPLAIN IT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG SOMEWHERE. I dont believe Jesus is a liar I believe men that wrote those things in the bible are! LET ALL MEN BE LIARS AND LET GOD BE TRUE. Truly we've been sabotaged and God will not hold them guiltless looking through the bible, the stories in it they are without doubt outrageous, blown out of proportion and some were written based on heresay. Please pray for mazaje dont criticize and tell someone he either repent or grin. even If he repents these questions will still be in his mind

Mazaje's a pretty interesting guy. He grins a lot though.
But is every Christian supposed to answer for and explain every single text in the Bible?As if the book itself isn't complicated enough, it has been revised and edited and rewritten an incredible number of times. God didn't come down himself to write it. Human beings wrote it. Anyone going through the book can tell it's been tampered with. Doctrines and ideas that are time capsules containing ancient philosophies, cultural attitudes and norms and mere opinion. These outmoded attitudes are perfectly preserved and go on to fabricate doctrinal disharmony, gender abuse and 'holy' war in the name of religion in age after age after age, and it's now in our age. Look at threads that ask if women can preach, if they can use make up,look how many different creeds there are in Christianity and all its strife and disharmony. But that doesn't subract from the Bible's core of truth. When you read the Bible parts of it deeply resonate within you. It's extraordinary,really.

Mazaje, the answers to some of your questions are pretty self-evident, you know. And a few people are trying to answer as best as they can. Maybe you should point those mocking questions at distinguished Bible scholars and theologians? I mean, people who really know and can explain so you get it?  You can compare their responses and arrive at your own conclusions.

Mowire:

I read this thread just to see if those who are responding are Christians or try to defend Jesus. And my fear is confirmed "serious" christians are the respondents and people are trying to defend the Lord Jesus.

Brethren learn: this Atheist and Jesus bashers don't deserve any response when they come in the manner of mazaje's post. I have been in such circle before, so I know what I am saying. You cannot possibly defeat them with the truth that you are convicted of. They waste their life on researching into what fault they can find with the bible and/or Jesus than you spend studying the bible. And they read a lot.

And God does not need anyone to defend him. The longest anyone can live in doubt is to the day of his death, After that the reality will follow.

This I know: no one losses anything serious by following the Lord Jesus and confessing Him

You have been wired to accept anything that comes with the bible as the final  truth, even when you read things in the bible that do not make sense to you, you pust it away and blind your eyes. . . you are very emotionally attached to your beliefs even if they don't make any sense. . .i would have no trouble convincing you that the moslem holy books are false, that those books are not the true word of god. you would tend to agree that all those other people, who have other gods and other religious books, are mistaken. you might agree that they have been misinformed, or even deceived. it would seem that people in other parts of the world are so easily made to believe whatever is accepted in their part of the world. they so easily believe in false idols. only you who happen to be born into the christian religion have the "true truth.". would have no trouble, if I were in a moslem part of the world, convincing the people there that the christian bible is not "the word of god." if i were addressing buddhist, hindus, or people of any other religion i would have no trouble proving, to their satisfaction, that the christian bible is not the inspired word of god. the bible is the words of men like you who created what ever idea of god they have in their own image, just like the koran, tanakah and all the other religious text out there. . . .

Bobbyaf:

And there is a simple explanation for it. Both sentences carry different ideas and messages. The prior has to do with Jesus' second return in ultimate glory in which case every eye shall see him according to Revelation 1:7, "Behold He cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him"

you see the problem is that you are saying what the bible does not say at all. . .does the bible tell you that both sentences carry different messages and different ideas? you are the one saying that not the bible. the problem with you guys is that you create your own gospel narrative out of what the gospel writers are saying if the passages carry different ideas and messages the writer of the gospel would have said so. . . .the passage is very clear, jesus said that he was coimg to reward his listeners according to their deed in his glory and with is angels during the life time of some of them. . . . 

The second statement has to do with the miniature glory that was given to some of Jesus' hearers which happened to have been, Peter, James, and John.

What you seem to be overlooking is the fact that Jesus sometimes spoke in codes deliberately so that He could avoid undue trouble from the religious leaders. Often His disciples in private would make their queries if they didn't understand a point made by Jesus.

how do you know this? is that what the bible says? can you see why there is no universally acceptable christian doctorine of belief? you guys say what the bible does not say, your continious repetation makes people to accept it as what the bible is saying. . . if you guys will only stick to what the gospels are saying with out adding your own opinions and interpretation then christianity would not have been the laughing stock that it has become in todays world. if i may ask how do you know when jesus is speaking codedly and when he is not speaking codely? it seems when ever you guys see things that you disagree with in the bible you concluded that jesus is speaking in codes or that the passage is an allegory, but when you see things that you agree with then it should be taken as it is written in the bible. . . .

You're not trained in that area so I wouldn't expect you to comprehend. You see when Jesus returns there will be two classes of righteous people - the righteous dead who will be resurrected at His 2nd return, and the living righteous who will not die. Jesus often spoke about this to His very own disciples, who were still not sure, about His mission despite the many miracles He wrought.

What better way to illustrate it than to have Moses and Elijah appear to the disciples in person.

you are neither trained in that area too, do you know bart ehrman? he is was once a very fundamentalist christian and one of the greatest theologians that we have today. . .he learnt greek, hebrew, latin and some coptic langauges just so that he will understand the bible in its original form. he had access to some of the oldest manuscripts of the bible that are available and he saw how very differnt they are from the bible that we have available in the market. he is now an atheist because he came to realise that the bible was strongly edited, mistranslated, and full of copyist errors. him and other open minded christian theologians out there agree that the passage was an error that should have not been included in the bible, by the way efforts where  once made to remove those passages from the bible at a time according to bart erhman. . .

Now that quote in Matthew 26:64 has to do with the 2nd return, and not what transpired on the mount of transfiguration. In fact Revelation 1:7 provides more details. Indeed the ones who had plotted against Jesus will die for sure, but when Jesus returns again in glory they will be raised just to see Him return with His glory, and that of His Father's, plus that of His angels. Revelation 1:7 says, "7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

here you are creating your own gospel and saying what the writer of matthew did not say at all. . . . if the writer of matthew wanted to say what you are saying he would have said so. . .  . . can you see the reason why no two christians agree with what the bible is saying? all you guys do is interperte and add your own opinions to what is written in the bible you relegate what the writters are truly saying to the background. . another christian will not interprete the passage the way you interpreted it. . . if you think i am lying then call another christian that seems to disagree with what the passage is saying in its original context and ask him to explain to you what he understand with what the passage is truly saying, you will be amazed at his own interpretation of the same passage. . .

Yes the Romans physically pierced Him, but it was the Jewish religious leaders that were responsible for the piercing. These leaders will be raised so that Jesus' prediction will come to pass. Just for the moment they will see Jesus whom they pierced return in majestic glory, but will be struck down again by the same glory. The only ones who will be able to withstand such a glory are all those who have been accounted righteous.

here again you are saying what the bible does not say. . . another christian will interprete this  very differently. . . .

I see that your main thrust is about the generation that Jesus spoke of, and you still have not gotten the gist of His manner of speech. Just ask for the codecs and you will see exactly what Jesus meant by that. 

That is why I say to you to bear context in mind before being critical. Jesus used the word generation to describe those people in the last days that will see the end time signs of His coming. The phrase "this generation" can be rightly seen as "that generation" Its obvious that there would have been signs that would have occurred after Jesus' death and resurrection that would happen in the future.

Jesus said this,  "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."

Then He said this afterwards, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

So obviously the "this generation" would be the "they" in the previous verse. You cannot isolate a phrase out of a wider context and begin to extrapolate something. Any serious student of scriptures will eventually come to realize that very important point.

Another part of the solution is to also realize that some translations have posed a huge problem in how people come to appreciate the bible. You can't only be a surface reader and think that you have a hold on Christians.

My advice to you is to humble yourself to God and allow Him to guide you.

this is you own apologetics, how did you know that is what the writer of matthew is really saying? he would have said so if that is what he really wanted to say. . . ok lets assume that it was god that guided you to this conclusions, if another humble christian is asked to interprete this same passage i am 100% sure that he will not interprete it the way you just did. . . does that then mean that the same god guided you guys differently? is this not what is happening to christianity? people not accepting the gospels as the truly are but adding their own personal opinions to the text just because they do not really feel comfortable with what the bible is saying, all the christians i know believe that the recieve their inspiration and interpretation of the bible from the holy ghost but why is it that the holy ghost keeps giving them different interpretations of the same passage. . . .

Mazaje:

What is the meaning of this:

"Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: " 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone? Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed." Luke 20

you see the problem is that you are saying what the bible does not say at all. . .does the bible tell you that both sentences carry different messages and different ideas?

Common sense tells me that both sentences have different ideas, unless of course grammar and context mean nothing to you. In case you didn't realize the bible was meant to be read intelligently.

you are the one saying that not the bible. the problem with you guys is that you create your own gospel narrative out of what the gospel writers are saying if the passages carry different ideas and messages the writer of the gospel would have said so

Not necessarily! You read without understanding, because you deliberately read out of context, while we read with the understanding.

the passage is very clear, jesus said that he was coimg to reward his listeners according to their deed in his glory and with is angels during the life time of some of them. . . .

Jesus said a lot of things, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to figure out what is said. Unlike you I go beyond the surface. I take nothing at face value.

how do you know this?

I just happen to know because of research, something you need to adapt.

is that what the bible says?

Jesus spoke in codes in some circumstances, and my job with the aid of His Spirit is to help persons like you who struggle with the bible.

can you see why there is no universally acceptable christian doctorine of belief? you guys say what the bible does not say, your continious repetation makes people to accept it as what the bible is saying. . . if you guys will only stick to what the gospels are saying with out adding your own opinions and interpretation then christianity would not have been the laughing stock that it has become in todays world.

You're free to express your opinion but I doubt if any Christian on this forum will agree with you. Besides, why the concern for truth anyway, since you are rejecting the very embodiment of truth Himself, Jesus Christ.

if i may ask how do you know when jesus is speaking codedly and when he is not speaking codely?

Its obvious only to those who are guided by His Spirit who is the author of the same scriptures you are stumbling over.

it seems when ever you guys see things that you disagree with in the bible you concluded that jesus is speaking in codes or that the passage is an allegory, but when you see things that you agree with then it should be taken as it is written in the bible. . . .

well I will be honest there are some Christians who play that game.

you are neither trained in that area too, do you know bart ehrman? he is was once a very fundamentalist christian and one of the greatest theologians that we have today. . .he learnt greek, hebrew, latin and some coptic langauges just so that he will understand the bible in its original form. he had access to some of the oldest manuscripts of the bible that are available and he saw how very differnt they are from the bible that we have available in the market. he is now an atheist because he came to realise that the bible was strongly edited, mistranslated, and full of copyist errors. him and other open minded christian theologians out there agree that the passage was an error that should have not been included in the bible, by the way efforts where once made to remove those passages from the bible at a time according to bart erhman. . .

How unfortunate! My my! What this very learned theologian didn't seem to realize is the reality of prophetic fulfillment. If the bible weren't true then how do you explain prophetic fulfillment? Didn't Jesus the Messiah come after all in accordance with bible prophecy? So many prophecies have been fulfilled since.

Incidentally I have been trained in theology and religion just so you know. I too studied biblical languages.

Bobby,

I see your point, but let us see it as an exercise for Christians to ", prove all things"

Christians do not need to prove all things to people - reaching them with the gospel is the primary exercise. Once a person becomes a disciple, then comes the teaching of all things and baptizing them and all things. Some of the people need to be seen in the context of the verse "do not give to dogs and pigs what is precious to you". God in his wisdom said it, sounds harsh but is the right answer to many posters here and all over the world. There is no other apt word for some here and elsewhere who are so full of evil that all their words smack of satan himself.

There are many instances in the Bible to prove that proving all things to people doesnt mean much, where people turned away after hearing all things. Example: The women caught in adultery in John 8 surrounded by accusers who dragged her there ready to stone her. When Jesus confronted them with the question, "one without sin should throw the first stone", they acknowledge their sinfullness therefore all left one by one. The ideal thing would have been to drop their stones and kneel alongside the adulteress acknowledging that they were no better, but knowing the truth they still decided not to change. By repenting they would have returned home happy and forgiven just like the adulteress whom Jesus sent in peace instructing "sin no more". They all had opportunity and everyone forfeited it. Interestingly, the only one who saw the divinity of Jesus was the adulteresses, who was considered the most incompetent to receive grace and revelation from the divine!!! Glory to God who reveals himself to little children, the penitent, the broken hearted, the helpless, the rejected, the fallen, the destitute - anyone who acknowledges helplessness and stretches out the hands for help.

Another interesting point to note is that the Pharisees who always wanted to kill Jesus left that place. It shows that even enemies who were baying for blood had some sense of shame and respect even when they wanted to kill! But today we are in terrible times spoken of by Paul in 2Timothy

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
2 Tim 3

We are in those terrible times. Some members here give a good example. They are carrying bag full of stones(check their posts!) throwing them at will. When exposed of their unclothedness they neither apologise nor leave, but go ahead and grin and continue as if nothing happened! This is the way of an adulteress: She eats and wipes her mouth and says, 'I've done nothing wrong.' Prov.30:20 The others have to leave feeling ashamed and not able to stand it anymore!! Amazing shamelessness and resilience to keep standing in foolishness! I believe we have entered those "terrible times" , the end times as told by Paul. I wonder if such stone-heartedness and stiffneckedness hurts even mortals, who profess to be redeemed (though prone to falls) how much more it would hurt the one who is absolutely holy from eternity to eternity.

Having said the above, not to forget we were no different than Mazaje or anyother person worldover. But some of us submitted to the grace offered by God through Jesus and therefore have our eyes opened so we could see our own wretchedness. Even today, I may not be much different from Mazaje or others in the sight of God (I may be worse on some days) but its the grace of Jesus in my life through faith on the cross and the blood which makes me righteous. It is the Spirit of God in me through Jesus who makes me repent every day (in fact many times a day) to wash away my sins in the blood of Jesus.

Blessings,

Bobby,

but as you aware a time will come when Christians will have to answer to those in authority.

God will help when such time comes:
On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. Mat 10:18-20

Besides, this person may very well be sincere in his attempts to question the word. Let us see this as a revision class for those Christians that need to sharpen up their reasoning skills.

This person Mazaje and others have been soaked in word by many loving brethren, but they (especially Mazaje) continue to be be what Paul wrote to Timothy, which I quoted in my post above, "boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient, unholy, slanderous, " .

Unfortunately every person who interacts for the first time with Mazaje tries to show the love of God and he has always rejected and hurt them, fulfilling the scriptures(Mat 7:6).

blessings,

Jesus(God) does not only tells lies he commits evil and he regrets or repents.

"Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly in this land I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant you, not uproot you; for I regret the evil I have done you."(Jeremiah 42:9-10)

@ truth11

I appreciate your candor, but we are not in a position to right off anyone. Bear in mind too that the responses that come from different Christians might just be of help to those who are having issues with the very same passages brought up by mazaje.

By the way only those who are of the elect will be brought before governors to answer for their faith. As you have rightly reminded of the help that God's Holy Spirit will provide at the time appointed to which we agree, but bear in mind that God's Spirit will not bring back to memory what was never studied, memorized, and taught.

Having to respond to the likes of Mazaje keeps me tuned.

i think if mazaje wants to know, he would have known.
To inform u Christians in this forum, mazaje is an atheist. What he needs is prayer and not to reply his posts, else he will make disciples of this feeble hearted.

@ hymnha

think if mazaje wants to know, he would have known.
To inform u Christians in this forum, mazaje is an atheist. What he needs is prayer and not to reply his posts, else he will make disciples of this feeble hearted.

I know he is an atheist, but what I find opportunistic is his desire to prove the bible wrong. There have been others like him who are now Christians, so let us not give up on him.

Who can battle with my God

Bobbyaf:

@ hymnha

I know he is an atheist, but what I find opportunistic is his desire to prove the bible wrong. There have been others like him who are now Christians, so let us not give up on him.

who is a christian if i may ask? the last time i looked around i saw over 30,000 different sects of christianity each with their different beliefs and doctorines I understand that you are a member of the seven day adventist church right? Pls go and tell davidylan or oladebuguu that you are a christian and you will be amazed with their reply, they will tell you that you are not a true christian because you do not believe in hell as a permanent place of suffering. you don't have to go to far there are christians here on nairaland that will write you off as a misguided follower of wrong doctorines who need to come to the full knowledge of christ and be "saved" because as far as they are concerned you are not "saved" because of the beliefs you hold. There is nothing like christianity its all personal opinion and interpretation of the bible according to like minds. . . . .if there was anything like christianity there wouldn't be 30,000 different sects of it. . . .

OLAMIND, :

Who can battle with my God

men did, go read it up in the old testament. . . .

Matthew 16:28 states, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Parallel passages are found in Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27.

The key is found in what immediately follows each of these verses. Jesus calls Peter, James, and John, takes them up to a high mountain and is transfigured before them while Moses and Elijah come down to discuss His coming death. Consider the things that point to this being the event Jesus referred to in Matthew 16:28.
Jesus "was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light" (Matthew 17:2). This matches the glorified appearance of Christ in Revelation 1:13-18 where "his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (Revelation 1:16).
Of Moses and Elijah, the Bible says that they "appeared in glory" (Luke 9:31). They did not just appear in a natural way but "in glory." Colossians 3:4 states, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." This points directly to the coming of Christ in glory (Matthew 24:30).
When the disciples awoke, they looked at Christ and "saw his glory" (Luke 9:32). This is a very powerful statement. They saw the glorified Christ. They saw Him as King of Kings.
A cloud overshadowed them and the Father said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him" (Luke 9:34-35). This too points to the presence and glory of God in fullness and power.
Jesus told them not to tell of the vision until He had risen from the dead (Matthew 17:9). Ths vision was not for the time that Jesus walked on the earth before His crucifixion. It was a glimpse of His coming kingdom.

Peter, James, and John received a vision of the future kingdom and glory of Christ. They saw Him coming in His kingdom. It was to this event that Peter referred when he said, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." (2 Peter 1:16-18). These three men were eyewitnesses of the majesty of "the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." What a glorious opportunity they had! What a glorious testimony they give!

sammyzacks:

Matthew 16:28 states, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Parallel passages are found in Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27.

The key is found in what immediately follows each of these verses. Jesus calls Peter, James, and John, takes them up to a high mountain and is transfigured before them while Moses and Elijah come down to discuss His coming death. Consider the things that point to this being the event Jesus referred to in Matthew 16:28.
Jesus "was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light" (Matthew 17:2). This matches the glorified appearance of Christ in Revelation 1:13-18 where "his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (Revelation 1:16).
Of Moses and Elijah, the Bible says that they "appeared in glory" (Luke 9:31). They did not just appear in a natural way but "in glory." Colossians 3:4 states, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." This points directly to the coming of Christ in glory (Matthew 24:30).
When the disciples awoke, they looked at Christ and "saw his glory" (Luke 9:32). This is a very powerful statement. They saw the glorified Christ. They saw Him as King of Kings.
A cloud overshadowed them and the Father said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him" (Luke 9:34-35). This too points to the presence and glory of God in fullness and power.
Jesus told them not to tell of the vision until He had risen from the dead (Matthew 17:9). Ths vision was not for the time that Jesus walked on the earth before His crucifixion. It was a glimpse of His coming kingdom.

Peter, James, and John received a vision of the future kingdom and glory of Christ. They saw Him coming in His kingdom. It was to this event that Peter referred when he said, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." (2 Peter 1:16-18). These three men were eyewitnesses of the majesty of "the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." What a glorious opportunity they had! What a glorious testimony they give!

Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Mat 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Did jesus also reward Peter, James, and John according to what they have done?

Mat 10:18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.

Mat 10:19 [b]But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say,
[/b]
Mat 10:20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Mat 10:21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

Mat 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mat 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

spin this one too. . .

Mat 26:61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "

Mat 26:62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, [fn] the Son of God."

Mat 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Spin it too

mazaje,

The "coming of the Son of Man" that Jesus talks about in Mt 16:27 is a different coming with the one in mt 16:28. In that verse Jesus is clearly talking about his return on Judgment Day. But in the next verse he does not mention coming in his Father's glory with his holy angels. He simply mentions "the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." This is not a reference to his return on Judgment Day.

you see, just because you do not understand does not prove that Jesus was a liar!

I have something to say to you Mazaje. Imagine that, after you die, your friends and relatives write a book on your life - Several of them writing just one book. Dont you think there will be discrepancies? Now, we christians need to understand the Bible as much as possible, but even if we dont, it is sufficient that we understand the central message; what Jesus stood for. You seem so smart so instead of critisizing Jesus, Christianity and the whole idea of spirituality as a whole, tell us why we should exist without any higher power. You just might be more successful that way.

italo:

I have something to say to you Mazaje. Imagine that, after you die, your friends and relatives write a book on your life - Several of them writing just one book. Dont you think there will be discrepancies? .

sure i expect people to make such mistakes but i will not accept or expect mistakes in the writing of people that claim they write on behalf or with the inspirations of a perfect being that created the world who knows everything and is above mistakes. Most people believe that the bible is the word of god that contains no error what so ever. so many people believe that.

The Holy Spirit moved men to write. He allowed them to use their own style, culture, gifts and character, to use the results of their own study and research, to write of their own experiences and to express what was in their mind. [b]At the same time, the Holy Spirit did not allow error to influence their writings; He overruled in the expression of thought and in the choice of words. Thus they recorded accurately all that God wanted them to say and exactly how He wanted them to say it, in their own character, style and language." [/b]

This is a quote from another thread but it summarizes the way most christians see the bible. But if you look at the bible from the old testament to the new you will see that it is riddle with COUNTLESS errors, and contradictions. let me give you one example each from the old and new testasment amongst countless of others.

there are differences between 2 Samuel and I Chronicles. these books contain different versions of the same story, with several differences. second Samuel 24:9 states there were eight hundred thousand fighting men in israel. first Chronicles 21:5 states there were one million, one hundred thousand. The same verses also state different numbers of the fighting men in judah. second Samuel 24:13 states that god sent his prophet to threaten david with seven years of famine. first Chronicles 21:12 states that god sent his prophet to threaten David with three years of famine. There are many, many more such contradictions i could delve into in the old testament. let me give you one example in the new testament, the writers do not agree as to where jesus first appeard to his disciples after he was ressurected, in matthew the gospel writer said he first appeared to 11 of his disciples on a mountain in galilee while luke says he first appeared to his disciples in a room in jerusalem, the problem is that jerusalem and galilee are at least 100km apart, so one of the writers is definately wrong in his story, the two can never be correct. here is another one, the books of Matthew and Luke contain contradictory accounts of jesus’ ancestry. the common explanation is that one of these genealogies is for jesus’ mother, and the other is for jesus’ father. the problems with this explanation is that the bible does not say this, and there is no need for joseph’s genealogy. joseph was not jesus’ father according to the bible, the holy spirit was. Many of these contradictions are explained by christian apologist as simple copyist errors by scribes, this explanation can not be accepted, because if this was true, why did a god as describe by christians and the bible as a being who is perfect and can do all things allow copyist errors into his word? the same bible describes jesus in some cases as his word but the same bible accounts of jesus do not add up, could such a god that knows all things and is all powerful not have kept the scribes from making such errors into his word?

Now, we christians need to understand the Bible as much as possible, but even if we dont, it is sufficient that we understand the central message; what Jesus stood for. You seem so smart so instead of critisizing Jesus, Christianity and the whole idea of spirituality as a whole, tell us why we should exist without any higher power. You just might be more successful that way

i don not care about christians believing in what ever they want to believe, what i do not like is when christians ridicule and disparage me and other atheist because we do not believe in the god that their parents indoctrinated them and told them to believe in without question since childhood. i post here on nairaland to let christians see the inconsistencies of their so called only word of god and the errors and outright contradictions that are inside so that when the see someone that tells them he is an atheist they should be able give him/her the benefit of doubt and not condemn him as the son of satan or an evil person because that is what most christians do, the word of a perfect god if there is any such thing should contain no error and contradiction but the bible has countless errors and contradictions. the problem is that over 80 percent of the christians living in the world today have never read the bible in full or know what is really inside but are quick to call you the son of satan for not believeing in that which they were thought to believe in since childhood with out asking questions.

God speaks to all creation. Any person (wicked, wretched, bad, ugly, black, white, yellow, simple, stupid, intelligent - any colour, any race, any nationality, ) can understand.

But a proud, unrepentant person cannot comprehend the simple speech of God. Such people even when they come to God, they come in arrogance and dont give God the glory due to him therefore they dont hear. Such people abuse God and try to show they are above above him. So God gives them over to their delusions and the more they do it the deeper they get into their foolishness but they think they are wise, as God has reavealed in the Bible:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.  For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

I was also one such person, but God of the Bible, who is a loving God did not destroy me in that state but continued to love me with patience. One day he showed the extent of his love due to which he sacrificed his son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. This changed me and I humbled and asked Christ to come into my life and forgive my sins, I was instantly transformed, oh what a blessed and glorious moment of my life!!

A God hater became a God worshipper! The Bible became the most precious book for me as God spoke everytime I opened it and I fell in love with this God and his revelations! A fool became wise!  A worthless person became precious in God's sight!  A dead person became an eternal being! A sinner became a saint! A wicked person became kind! A troublemaker became useful to the society! A preacher of violence became a preacher of love! A cursed person became a blessed person! A mortal person became eternal! Salvation through Christ opened up the flood gates of blessings from heavens for me and life changed so beautifully. Even after 15 years I am basking in his love and look forward to hearing God and his plans daily. He filled my life with hope and blessings.

I believe he loves everybody in the world, even Osama or Hitler, as long as they are alive and have a chance to repent (after death face judgement). I belive everybody can go through my experience or even better experiences because God does not show favouritism (For God does not show favoritism. Rom 2:11).

So, all unbelievers and God haters, taste and see that the Lord is Good!
All who are trying to prove him a liar, receive Christ and you will see for yourself if he is the Truth!
All who have violence in their hearts, taste and see that he is a God of peace! He will forgive you completely!
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, . . . ;

Blessings,

Ogaga4Luv:

Jesus or whatever its been called,that Guy is a Bastard Lier,that jewish Guy is not Straight farward,if you like dopt me!

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. . . . do not take revenge, . . ., but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Anybody can tell what you from your speech. Come back to senses. If not spiritual, at least be normal human being.

Ogaga4Luv:

Jesus or whatever its been called,that Guy is a Bastard Lier,that jewish Guy is not Straight farward,if you like dopt me!

Your post is offensive. You should apologise.

GOD: Believe, and I will reveal myself to you.

MAN: Reveal yourself and I will believe in you.

italo:

GOD: Believe, and I will reveal myself to you

When did any god say that to humanity. . . men said that, no god has ever said that. . . . .

mazaje:
Quote from: italo on Yesterday at 11:13:11 PM
GOD: Believe, and I will reveal myself to you

When did any god say that to humanity. . . men said that, no god has ever said that. . . . .

2000 years ago! Your ignorance of the Bible.

Truth11:

2000 years ago! Your ignorance of the Bible.

where u there when the biblegod ever said any thing to man 2000 years ago? was the meme not passed from one generation to generation by men?

mazaje:
where u there when the biblegod ever said any thing to man 2000 years ago? was the meme not passed from one generation to generation by men?

you call her mother - were you there when she gave you birth or did you ever ask for proof that she is your mother or do you trust the fact?
you call him father - were you there during the act or did you ask for proof that he was the one or do you trust the fact.
Your parents - do you trust or did you get your DNA tested?
Do you believe when you are told that this is your mother, your father, your brother, your uncle, your sister, your aunt, etc. etc. or do you do the DNA for each Or do you really doubt all of them till proved?

George Washington was the first president of USA. Do you believe? I believe the answer is yes. Were you there? No. This account also comes from many generations but we still believe.

Truth stands on its own, it doesnt need anybody to support it. Just have to believe it and be blessed. Lies get exposed over time if not immediately and cannot stand. We are spirit beings and if we love the truth, we will get uneasy on hearing lies. If we love lies, we will get uneasy on hearing the truth. Therefore, accept Christ, life will return to the rightful owner and life will return to the correct balance.

Blessings,

Truth11:

you call her mother - were you there when she gave you birth or did you ever ask for proof? y
ou call him father - were you there or did you ask for proof that they are your parents or you simply trust them?

This is the principle the whole world runs on, majority believe their parents - how? love and truth speak on their own and a true heart will recognise the creator when encountered just like we know our parents from their love. Greater love has no one than this that he gave his life for his friends.

if your heart is seeking the truth you will know when truth is revealed to you.

your arguments fall flat, i can see the resemblance that exist between me and my parents. . . . where you there when jesus was crucified? did you parents not tell you that and showed it to you inside the bible? do you only believe and have faith in all these things or do you know them to be facts. . . . .

mazaje:
your arguments fall flat, i can see the resemblance that exist between me and my parents. . . . where you there when jesus was crucified? did you parents not tell you that and showed it to you inside the bible? do you only believe and have faith in all these things or do you know them to be facts. . . . .

I think you got the message straight to your heart this time and your argument fell flat just now but you want to continue your argument.

I was not there when any of the things written in the Bible happened, but I love the truth and so I believe it absolutely. So I was there when Genesis 1 tells about creation, I dont have even 0.0001% doubt!! I absolutely believe whatever I read from the Bible, I believe when Daniel was thrown to the lions, I believe when David killed Goliath, I believe when God took his children out of Egypt and all the plagues and the wilderness journey, I believe everything in the Bible and my heart agrees.

Earlier, when I did not receive Christ as my personal saviour I used to doubt everything like you and I could not believe anything from the Bible, it all looked like lies even though I was born in a believing christian home.

God has given me discernment so I can differentiate the truth from lies. You can also have this beautiful nature through Christ.

Blessings,

never try to drag issues with this guy again, i know God is moulding him to become a great preacher of our time,afterall, saul was once like him!

Truth11:

I think you got the message straight to your heart this time and your argument fell flat just now but you want to continue your argument.

I was not there when any of the things written in the Bible happened, but I love the truth and so I believe it absolutely. So I was there when Genesis 1 tells about creation, I dont have even 0.0001% doubt!! I absolutely believe whatever I read from the Bible, I believe when Daniel was thrown to the lions, I believe when David killed Goliath, I believe when God took his children out of Egypt and all the plagues and the wilderness journey, I believe everything in the Bible and my heart agrees.

Earlier, when I did not receive Christ as my personal saviour I used to doubt everything like you and I could not believe anything from the Bible, it all looked like lies even though I was born in a believing christian home.

God has given me discernment so I can differentiate the truth from lies. You can also have this beautiful nature through Christ.

Blessings,

good keep on believing, i used to be like you too, i was once a bible believing almost a fundamentalist christian. . . dont go around writing people off just because you believe and they don't share you beliefs. . . . . .