@El razur

#why not speak to your friend devaidylan about throwing insults all about. If you go to read this thread from the begining you would see he is the Chief originator oof insults to this thread and i called his attention to that. I see you feel personal about it when Richy called u a name u dont like,it will be wise to advise your friend in arguements to restrain from insults for us to take you serious on this.

Insults should have no place in debates and i beleive we should all act matured. From today till eternity i shall not support the state of israel until it vates the occupied terrirtories and so will most of u guys ever support Israel so whats the fuss about insults. Lets table our points across and it is a fact we are all guilty of bias towards either Israel or the neighbours of israel so again whats the fuss.

Iran is an independent state and any act of aggression against it by Israel should be met with an ovhelming retaliation to teach those zionist pre emptive strike is gone with the killer George Bush. Obama is wiser and will not authorise pre emptive strike by Israel unless the US wants to fight on 3 front s now ;Iraq, Afghanistan and then Iran.

Hell no!!!

Lagosboy:

@El razur

#why not speak to your friend devaidylan about throwing insults all about. If you go to read this thread from the begining you would see he is the Chief originator oof insults to this thread and i called his attention to that. I see you feel personal about it when Richy called u a name u dont like,it will be wise to advise your friend in arguements to restrain from insults for us to take you serious on this.

Insults should have no place in debates and i beleive we should all act matured. From today till eternity i shall not support the state of israel until it vates the occupied terrirtories and so will most of u guys ever support Israel so whats the fuss about insults. Lets table our points across and it is a fact we are all guilty of bias towards either Israel or the neighbours of israel so again whats the fuss.

See you seem to have got it wrong from the very beginning with your post.  Davidylan is not my friend, I do not know the guy. Just because we have similar views on certain issues do not make him my friend.

If you feel he's called you names and insulted you, please do call him up on it and bring his attention to it. I have nothing to do with that, and I really do not see the need for you to ask me to "advise him". My issues is with Richy and I will like to keep it that way, instead of bickering about something else.

Richyblack is a poor debater and his understanding of words is not so great. Something he has demonstrated time and time. Imagine if I say "All Muslims are terrorist" will that not be an ignorant thing to say? Off course it is, as I know many Muslims are peace loving. Now if someone calls me as being ignorant as a result, then I deserve every ounce of it.

RichyBlack thinks being called ignorant is an insult! I even showed him the definition of ignorant, yet he feels the need to make a threat to me. Well, I am not your average, nor am I your typical forumite. I just will not back down because I haven't done a single thing wrong. He weaves in and out of a debate, ignores questions posed at him, engages in ad homen tactics, and when he is called a poor debater, he gets mad. Jeez! may be he should learn to be more tactical and stop those things that portrays him as being weak.

Me and you have disagreed on a few things and none of us is yet to trade insult. That is how mature minded people do it. Period.

Lagosboy:

Iran is an independent state and any act of aggression against it by Israel should be met with an ovhelming retaliation to teach those zionist pre emptive strike is gone with the killer George Bush. Obama is wiser and will not authorise pre emptive strike by Israel unless the US wants to fight on 3 front s now ;Iraq, Afghanistan and then Iran.

Hell no!!!

I hate for things to come to war. Why is it okay for a country with abundant oil reserves to seek nuclear technology advancement? A bit odd, dont you think? This is the same nation that threatens Israel at every opportunity.  A country that the government wants to push Israel into the sea or wipe them off the map. A country that is as vile and have no respect for human rights [look up on how homosexuals are hanged etc, and how Christians are persecuted in Iran], And you want Israel to feel comfortable with this? I am not an Israeli, and the thought of a Rogue state like Iran with a nuclear weapon scare the hell out of me. After all, I am a non-muslims/christains so in their eyes, it is okay to kill a Kaffir like me isnt?

Iran may be an independent state, but it fits more with the definition of a rogue state. [See my previous post on the definition/explanation of a rogue state]

Like I said before, Israel appears to mean business this time, they are carrying out their largest military exercise ever sometimes end of the month. They have gone as far to say it would be a drill on long range attack etc. If history is correct, Israel hardly sabre-rattle.
Israel really do not need obama's permission to carry out such a feat. US and her allies will be forced to act and most likely protect/support Israel if push comes to shove.

Militarily, Israel may be small, but they are considered one of the best in the world and they have shown time and time again they can surprise the biggest of enemy. I suggest you look up on 7days war, recent attack on a site in syria, recent attack on a convoy in Sudan etc.
Also, their military tactics is advanced and pretty much every organisation e.g CIA et al borrow a few leafs from their books. Please look up "Krav maga". Do you know that Israel have guns that can shot round corners? No joke. I have seen the documentary.

The point I am making is that Israel packs a deadlier punch than Iran militarily period.

Mahmoud Armadinejad is just the front man for the western opposition (RUSSIA). He has 100% from Russia, North Korea and recently China. Just watch out for the third world war.

Lagosboy:


Iran is an independent state and any act of aggression against it by Israel should be met with an ovhelming retaliation to teach those zionist pre emptive strike is gone with the killer George Bush. Obama is wiser and will not authorise pre emptive strike by Israel unless the US wants to fight on 3 front s now ;Iraq, Afghanistan and then Iran.

Correct.

No country has the right to attack another country. Military action against a nation can only be justified if it is carried out in self-defense. The false doctrine of preemptive strike has led America to regret the actions of George W. Bush.

Sometimes, the only way to stop a bully is to hit back and hit back very hard when that bully hits you. Iran also has the right to defend herself!

@RichyBlack,

What would you call a situation where a country actively funds, arms and encourages every element it can to destabilise and wage war against another country?

If Cameroun was actively arming, training and financing some militias in Nigeria to destabilise the country, would you consider it pre-eptive strike if Nigeria attacks Cameroun?

Tayo-D:

@RichyBlack,

What would you call a situation where a country actively funds, arms and encourages every element it can to destabilise and wage war against another country?

If Cameroun was actively arming, training and financing some militias in Nigeria to destabilise the country, would you consider it pre-eptive strike if Nigeria attacks Cameroun?

That could be mere suspicion, false allegations, false intelligence or just a policy position. However, if that is Israel's position on Iran, then Israel should take it's case to the United Nations.

Recall the Cuban missile crisis? The US had the same suspicion of the Soviet arming Cuba. What did they do? Bomb Cuba? Nope. They took their case to the UN and produced photographic evidence that the Soviets couldn't refute. The tension subsided and the US and the Soviet resolved the issue without a single bomb being dropped!

Why cant' Israel do the same?

@Richy,

Why cant' Israel do the same?

In a way Isreal is doing just that. While they are not so much bothered by Hezbollah or Hamas, Iran geting a nuclear weapon poses an existential threat to Isreal. Through the IAEA, Isreal through the US has been calling for closer monitoring of Iran's nuclear work. We can all see how well that is going.

@RichyBlack what are you talking about? Remember from the beginning this is not about Iran, it is about Israel and Palestine, the problem has existed for ages. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has made his intentions very clear. Do you expect Israel to fold her arms and Watch this racist develop atomic weapons? Certainly not, Israel needs to hit Iran very hard.


The war can only be delayed, it is biblical. The bible listed the names of the countries, Russia was boldly written in the Bible. I can tell Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has backings from Moscow. Remember the North Korean nuclear test, Russia also supported them. This is the road to the third world war.

Tayo-D:

@Richy,
In a way Isreal is doing just that.  While they are not so much bothered by Hezbollah or Hamas, Iran geting a nuclear weapon poses an existential threat to Isreal. Through the IAEA, Isreal through the US has been calling for closer monitoring of Iran's nuclear work.  We can all see how well that is going.

Have you ever asked yourself this question: What if JFK bombed Cuba during the missile crisis?

Some conspiracy theorists speculate that his refusal to follow a more hawkish agenda on the Cuban issue was a reason for his assassination.

Israel should continue on the path of diplomacy in dealing with Iran.

yeswecan:

@RichyBlack  what are you talking about?  Remember from the beginning this is not about Iran, it is about Israel and Palestine, the problem has existed for ages.  Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has made his intentions very clear. Do you expect Israel to fold her arms and Watch this racist develop atomic weapons? Certainly not, Israel needs to hit Iran very hard.


The war can only be delayed, it is biblical. The bible listed the names of the countries, Russia was boldly written in the Bible. I can tell Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has backings from Moscow. Remember the North Korean nuclear test, Russia also supported them. This is the road to the third world war.

Why start a war when there is no war? What is wrong with Israelis and Iranians living their life as they're doing today?

If Israel strikes Iran and Iran retaliates, then that may be the beginning of a new war. There would be casualties on both sides and you can't even predict how far it could go.

Israel needs to pursue the diplomatic channel. Starting a war with Iran would definitely hurt Israel. And if the Arabs join the Persians in fighting Israel, a scenario that has never played out before, the cost of the war may be unbearable for the Israelis.

I'm convinced the military planners in Israel are not foolish enough to ignore the potential grave consequences of igniting a war by conducting a first strike against Iran.

First Iran has refused to identify Israel as a state. Ahmadinejad made it clear he is ready for talks but will never identify Israel as a state.

Please understand the religion connotation of this war. The Muslims view Israel as their archenemy, the land Israel occupies is known as the most sacred land for the Islam and they will do everything possible to get the Israelites out of that land. Saudi Arabia is viewed as a sacred Land because no Israelite has ever stepped a foot on Saudi. Late Prophet Mohammed instructed the Arab that no Israelite should be allowed to step a foot on that land. Sorry for the diversion am tiring to bring out the point that Iran will never subscribe to any diplomatic channel. This is about religion, not just a normal war.

If you can read Ezekiel, from the old testament of the Bible, you will understand the religious aspect. Americas will not Support Israel here but at the End, Israel will defeat the whole Islam world.

What has United Nations/Obama done to North Korea for breaking the rules?

I just wonder the rationale in Israel possesing nuclear weapons and them not wanting iran to have nuclear technology. All animals are equal but some are more equal than the other innit?

Israel attacking iran would trigger fire in the whole region, thos gulf states would dare not support the US in such attacks as Iran would wipe them out in one day. The arabs will join the persians and it will be a colossal crises in the world. Israel will even never survive to regret it in my opinion. This is not 1981 iraq and i know Obama is wiser and will not be foolish to allow Netanyahu push him like a dummy.

He will remember his campaign rhetoric and the premise of change on which he assumed power.

My people why is the world ok with israel having nuclear weapons and not iran i still cant fathom.

yeswecan:

First Iran has refused to identify Israel as a state. Ahmadinejad made it clear he is ready for talks but will never identify Israel as a state.

Please understand the religion connotation of this war. The Muslims view Israel as their archenemy, the land Israel occupies is known as the most sacred land for the Islam and they will do everything possible to get the Israelites out of that land. Saudi Arabia is viewed as a sacred Land because no Israelite has ever stepped a foot on Saudi. Late Prophet Mohammed instructed the Arab that no Israelite should be allowed to step a foot on that land. Sorry for the diversion am tiring to bring out the point that Iran will never subscribe to any diplomatic channel. This is about religion, not just a normal war.

If you can read Ezekiel, from the old testament of the Bible, you will understand the religious aspect. Americas will not Support Israel here but at the End, Israel will defeat the whole Islam world.

Christain zionism at its best.

Only if we could look at issues without our religious bias and sentments. How come there was no crises in the region until 1947, how come the jews lived side by side with the muslims for hundreds of years in that region, how come the jews always found sanctuary in muslim enclaves all through their history , even when they were persecuted in europe.

Please leave the issue of religon out of this and lets anaylse the issues politically.

It is rational for Israel possessing nuclear weapons because they are not posing as a treat to any region. This is different with Iran; they made their intentions very clear if they are allowed to join the nuclear owners club, they will definitely attack Israel.

North Korea has nuclear plants; Israel has no comment on that. Iran intends to attack Israel with theirs, Iran has been funding various terrorist groups that Attacked Israel in the past.

Point of correction, please note that Israel has been fighting before the birth of Jesus Christ. David and Goliath, if you ever heard of that story, Goliath was from Palestine.

r

Lagosboy:

Christain zionism at its best.

Only if we could look at issues without our religious bias and sentments. How come there was no crises in the region until 1947, how come the jews lived side by side with the muslims for hundreds of years in that region, how come the jews always found sanctuary in muslim enclaves all through their history , even when they were persecuted in europe.

Please leave the issue of religon out of this and lets anaylse the issues politically.

Please read up your History book about Palestine (Philistine) Long before 2000 years the Israelites and Palestine ( then Philistine) has been fighting one war after the other. The Battle of Shephelah, Battle of Aphek, Battle of Eben-Ezer, Valley of Elah, these are battles between Israel and the Philistines You think they have been leaving in peace? Nooooooo. This is just a rebirth of an old misunderstanding.

yeswecan:

It is rational for Israel possessing nuclear weapons because they are not posing as a treat to any region. This is different with Iran; they made their intentions very clear if they are allowed to join the nuclear owners club, they will definitely attack Israel.

[size=18pt]North Korea has nuclear plants; Israel has no comment on that.[/size] Iran intends to attack Israel with theirs, Iran has been funding various terrorist groups that Attacked Israel in the past.

My brother i'm not expecting ur salient points to get through to the numbskull islamobots here

Lagosboy:

Christain zionism at its best.

Only if we could look at issues without our religious bias and sentments. How come there was no crises in the region until 1947, how come the jews lived side by side with the muslims for hundreds of years in that region, how come the jews always found sanctuary in muslim enclaves all through their history , even when they were persecuted in europe.

Please leave the issue of religon out of this and lets anaylse the issues politically.

Rich sense of irony. You are doing exactly the same thing you wish others wouldnt . . .

Look at this piece of fraudulent demagoguery from you - How come there was no crises in the region until 1947 . . . the short answer is THERE WAS! Read up on history . . . the Hebron massacre of Jews in 1929 anyone?

how come the jews lived side by side with the muslims for hundreds of years in that region - They never did live "side by side" . . . Jews were nothing more than dhimmis in their own land. Muslims were NEVER original settlers on jewish land, we all know they conquered Jerusalem around 638 AD.

how come the jews always found sanctuary in muslim enclaves all through their history - As long as they were inconspicous dhimmis everything was marginally ok.

Lying, dishonest slowpoke.

Lagosboy:

My people why is the world ok with israel having nuclear weapons and not iran i still cant fathom.

Simple - Israel isn't arming terrorists to attack Europe and the rest of the world, Iran is. Israel is a very capable technological and economic ally to the largest economies on earth . . . Iran is a threat to them. Israel's nuclear weapons are secure and only as a deterent, Iran wants weapons to attack her neighbors and other world nations . . .

By attacking Iran now, Israel is only defending herself. Obama can take the back seat if he chooses to, Israelite will defend themselves.  Go and read about the six days war (June 5, 1967 – June 10, 1967) when Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria. It will happen again.

yeswecan:

By attacking Iran now, Israel is only defending herself. Obama can take the back seat if he chooses to, Israelite will defend themselves.  Go and read about the six days war (June 5, 1967 – June 10, 1967) when Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria. It will happen again.

I mentioned this before. [made a mistake calling it the seven days war.]

Here is a summary of it all

During the Six-Day War, the IAF demonstrated the importance of air superiority during the course of a modern conflict, especially in a desert theatre. Following the IAF's preliminary air attack, in which the IAF achieved near total tactical surprise (only four unarmed Egyptian training flights were in the air when the strike began [127]), it was able to thwart and harass what remained of the Arab air forces and to grant itself air superiority over all fronts; it then complemented the strategic effect of its initial strike by carrying out tactical support operations.

In contrast, the Arab air forces never managed to mount an effective attack. Attacks of Jordanian fighters and Egyptian Tu-16 bombers into the Israeli rear during the first two days of the war were not successful and led to the destruction of the aircraft (Egyptian bombers were shot down, while Jordan's fighters were destroyed during the attack on the airfield).

Numerous disillusioned Arab pilots defected with their MiGs to Israel prior to the outbreak of the conflict. Israel capitalized on this by test flying the MiGs to the maximum, thus giving Israeli pilots great advantage over their opponents.

All I can say is[i] Allahu Akbar[/i].

I think there is no point arguing this with you. You have made an unreasonable remark citing the advantage the Israeli have over the entire Arab during the Six days way. Well, it’s a shame that Israel (The smallest country in the Middle East region) can stage a war with Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria and defeated them within six days. what a shame.

That is not the first time the Arab region came together against the Israelites. Check your history book May 1948–March 1949 Israel fought against Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Holy War Army and Arab Liberation Army Another Victory for Israel and the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

Israel captured the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. This Arabian Countries are well populated. Why are they loosing out? Ask your self that question.

As a reasonable person, ask your self this question, why is the entire Arab coming together against Israel? Religion I suppose. I bet you, not even Russia, Iran or any other nation on earth can withstand Isreal. They have backings from above.

yeswecan:

I think there is no point arguing this with you. You have made an unreasonable remark citing the advantage the Israeli have over the entire Arab during the Six days way. Well, it’s a shame that Israel (The smallest country in the Middle East region) can stage a war with Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria and defeated them within six days. what a shame.

That is not the first time the Arab region came together against the Israelites. Check your history book May 1948–March 1949 Israel fought against Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Holy War Army and Arab Liberation Army Another Victory for Israel and the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

Israel captured the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. This Arabian Countries are well populated. Why are they loosing out? Ask your self that question.

As a reasonable person, ask your self this question, why is the entire Arab coming together against Israel? Religion I suppose. I bet you, not even Russia, Iran or any other nation on earth can withstand Isreal. They have backings from above.

Dont expect lagosboy to agree with you. He knows its all about religion . . .