Shymm3x:


Lol.

Stealth without oxygen?

How manoeuvrable is the raptor compared to Su-30/MiG-31? Can you even compare American pilots to the Russian ones? - you and I know you can't.

Please, there's nothing stealthy about those fifth-gen jets,hence everyone else has moved to 6th-gen.

That fifth gen can just pass , now they have the super-hornet re-vamped, there is a new block E F16 and the F15 has been pulled out of planned retirement, the A10 was planned to be ditched now it has been re-introduced while the B2 has failed to replace the B52 effectively.

I mean what is the point of tech you don't you don't use because you would rather not risk it over enemy skies, the B2's were called in for a victory parade after the B52 took out the Iraqi air-force fleet , radars and AA positions.

Shymm3x:


Obviously, coupled with the simplicity and manoeuvrability of Russian aircraft. Can you even compare most US military jets to their Russian equivalents?

Yes, it does exist. However, does the the tech can easily negate that exist - yes or no?

Stop this bad joke.

USAF pilots have been smacking their Russian counterparts since the Korean War in the mig alley. This comparison doesn't even make any sense. There is nothing wrong with Russian jets ,they are good. but like a said, an average USAF pilot have superior training. If it comes to the individual solider to take the initiative, Migs will be kaput

If you ever read Tolstoy you will know something about Russian military tradition. They are known for the physical ability to withstand horrendous conditions but are not usually technically gifted like their western counterparts.

I dont understand the question

sweetgala:


That fifth gen can just pass , now they have the super-hornet re-vamped, there is a new block E F16 and the F15 has been pulled out of planned retirement, the A10 was planned to be ditched now it has been re-introduced while the B2 has failed to replace the B52 effectively.

I mean what is the point of tech you don't you don't use because you would rather not risk it over enemy skies, the B2's were called in for a victory parade after the B52 took out the Iraqi air-force fleet , radars and AA positions.

Are you saying the B2 did not operate in Iraq?

Missy89:



WRONG!.

There was no money 2 decades ago to invest with anyway. By the way the T series went throu significant upgrades over the years. so no, they did not remain the same. In fact the T90 was just upgraded recently.

Throwing protector skirts and kontact 5 reactive Armour plates on a old tank is not by any means viable upgrades. The initial highlighted is true there was no money to spend in the late 80s and early 90s

Shymm3x:


Lol.

Have you seen the Russians in action? Heck, did you see the Russian helicopter gunship in Syria that shocked the world? Please, don't compare Russian pilots to USAF - apart from probably night, which is an area in which Russia is still improving on. Leave RAF out of it.

Nothing stealth but can be hard to find is an oxymoron. You need help from acute propaganda syndrome.

Don't let the Su-30 catch the raptor and its lack of oxygen...and the Su-30 and MiG-31 can outmanoeuvre F-22 easily. That's a $1 billion waste against the Russians. Try it against China.

It has been proven current Russian radars can pick the both the F35 and F22 up outside and inside it's firing range, so please what is the point. If a flake of "stealth" paint comes off a F35 it has to return to base and be grounded for over 150 hours. What is the point I beg !

Missy89:



The F35 is a victim of the airforce, navy and army bureaucracies.. Good idea, Bad plane. There is nothing wrong with the Raptor however

Bad plane , bad concept, bad idea , lousy excuse and they tried to flog it to the swedes and Aussies at over 100 million a pop. I'll take 5 Su35 Please, thank you.

A good number of the other western planes are good but spend too much money packing un-necessary tech to increase the price and woo foreign buyers really like India and S.Arabia eg

Gripen
Typhoon
Rafaele

Shymm3x:


Lmao @ bold.

This is what happens when folks swallow too much propaganda. How do you define wealth? Or you mean over half of the world's dead money, induced by petrodollar and the ability to print money needlessly?

The world's wealth are all over MENA, third world countries, and a large chunk in Siberia. Yes, the same Siberia Madeleine Albright alluded to as being the 2nd most important thing on the planet with too much resources for Russia alone.

Always learn to be open-minded in ya analysis - when you keep a close-mind, you'll always look too obtuse and not fit for purpose. And that's effectively displayed in the rest of ya argument - which I deleted.

She's pathetic.

Missy89:

Stop this bad joke.

USAF pilots have been smacking their Russian counterparts since the Korean War in the mig alley. This comparison doesn't even make any sense. There is nothing wrong with Russian jets ,they are good. but like a said, an average USAF pilot have superior training. If it comes to the individual solider to take the initiative, Migs will be kaput

If you ever read Tolstoy you will know something about Russian military tradition. They are known for the physical ability to withstand horrendous conditions but are not usually technically gifted like their western counterparts.

I dont understand the question

Lmao...smacking them, how? Or US jets piloted by RAF guys during the Korean war? And there were very few Soviet pilots on the Chinese/N.Korean side during the Korean war - most of the MiGs were piloted by Chinese and the difference in combat was negligible despite the fact that the coalition had overwhelming air superiority against N.Koreans. But the coalition still lost that war.

Also, Russia isn't Soviet Union. Two different eras and two military doctrines and training. And that's why the Russian adventure in Syria keeps shocking everyone that underestimated Russia. Just watch what happens when they unleash their real modern might in a proper conventional war.

Anyway, let me just put this out there. The US is on a suicide mission by opening two fronts against two formidable powers. The yanks will be surprised that in any miscalculations that will lead to an all out war - most European countries would pull out of NATO and either maintain neutrality or go with the other side. Europe is tired of America. I can bet my money on Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal and a few European countries. Let's see how the yanks will survive going against these countries - the same country that couldn't conquer Vietnam by itself.

Time for the yanks to go back home and go look after Americans - before its self-destruction. The gig is over. We the lovers of America don't want to see it self-destruct. It will be a shame to see a country like that go up in flames like Rome did.

Shymm3x:


Lmao...smacking them, how? Or US jets piloted by RAF guys during the Korean war? And there were very few Soviet pilots on the Chinese/N.Korean side during the Korean war - most of the MiGs were piloted by Chinese and the difference in combat was negligible despite the fact that the coalition had overwhelming air superiority against N.Koreans. But the coalition still lost that war.

Also, Russia isn't Soviet Union. Two different eras and two military doctrines and training. And that's why the Russian adventure in Syria keeps shocking everyone that underestimated Russia. Just watch what happens when they unleash their real modern might in a proper conventional war.

Anyway, let me just put this out there. The US is on a suicide mission by opening two fronts against two formidable powers. The yanks will be surprised that in any miscalculations that will lead to an all out war - most European countries would pull out of NATO and either maintain neutrality or go with the other side. Europe is tired of America. I can bet my money on Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal and a few European countries. Let's see how the yanks will survive going against these countries - the same country that couldn't conquer Vietnam by itself.

Time for the yanks to go back home and go look after Americans - before its self-destruction. The gig is over. We the lovers of America don't want to see it self-destruct. It will be a shame to see a country like that go up in flames like Rome did.

What British pilots? Trying to claim victory where you do not belong? Lol. Please do your research. The F-86 Sabre always had Soviet Mig 15s on the run. And there were lots of Soviet pilots in mig alley NOT few. Those were the first jet powered dogfights. USAF skilled pilots won hands down

There is very little difference between Russia and Soviet military doctrine. Both armies still maintain the old Russian military tradition. The soviet concept of deep battle is the bedrock of modern Russia military doctrine. Very little difference. There is no argument about either side's conventional capability. It is not even up for debate.

We both know no one is going to leave NATO and what other side will they go to? CSTO?

sweetgala:


Bros If you don't follow military tech closely please shut it, The US know a face-off with Russia would be disastrous, neither of them would win, it would be either a nuclear wipe-out or a decade long stalemate with the collateral damage too much for the US to bare and inconsequential to the Russians.

Just last few weeks the Russians were launching ballistic missiles off fast moving corvette ships. I say it all the time Nigeria just need to buy Russian every time and we'll be fine

Stop fantasizing on Russias might.
US will ruin Russia, if there is a face-off, the fact the world is avoiding a multi-nation
conflict does not make anyone inferior.
I guess you are one of those who think Russia and U.S shares a border
and putin can just fire his nuclear weapon at washington if he so wishes.

The bolded is the biggest joke of the century.
Should there be a direct face-off between the U.S and Russia,
putin committing suicide the same way hitler did.

Missy89:

What British pilots? Trying to claim victory where you do not belong? Lol. Please do your research. The F-86 Sabre always had Soviet Mig 15s on the run. And there were lots of Soviet pilots in mig alley NOT few. Those were the first jet powered dogfights. USAF skilled pilots won hands down

There is very little difference between Russia and Soviet military doctrine. Both armies still maintain the old Russian military tradition. The soviet concept of deep battle is the bedrock of modern Russia military doctrine. Very little difference. There is no argument about either side's conventional capability. It is not even up for debate.

We both know no one is going to leave NATO and what other side will they go to? CSTO?

Looool. I see you avoided the different variants of the MiG-15s and how performances vary. Also, the fact the there were tons of North Koreans and Chinese pilots against the coalition, which was mostly US Airforce and RAF. And the RAF outperformed USAF in battle.

How come you also failed to mention the fact that all the top aces with most dogfight kills in that war were Russians? Sutyagin, Pepelyayev, and Kirilovich who downed tons of F-86s and killed a lot of US airmen - are these Americans or Russians? Looool. So who produces the best pilots now?

Go study the modern Russian combat doctrine, chain of command, deployment etc. Vis-a-vis Soviet's and come back with a better retort devoid of propaganda. Capability on paper is different from capability when the guns go off - don't conflate two different things. If it were to be about capability on paper - Spartans wouldn't have defeated Persians; Hannibal wouldn't have led Carthaginians to Rome; the UK would've surrendered to the Nazis; the Russians wouldn't have defeated the Nazis by destroying over 90% of their strength; Ethiopia wouldn't have defeated Italy during the first war; Vietnam wouldn't have defeated the yanks; Hezbollah wouldn't have defeat Israel in 2006; and the PLA's decisive defeat of the US led coalition during the Korean War.

They don't need to join any other organisation to leave NATO. Any US miscalculations - they will just back off and leave the US and dry by itself. And we all know the US can't even win a war against small Iran by itself. Now imagine the same country going against two formidable countries. Or can the US win a war against any 3rd rate country by itself? - doubt me, ask the Vietcongs.

Shymm3x:


Looool. I see you avoided the different variants of the MiG-15s and how performances vary. Also, the fact the there were tons of North Koreans and Chinese pilots against the coalition, which include mostly US Airforce and RAF. And the RAF outperformed USAF in battle.

How come you also failed to mention the fact that all the top aces with most dogfight kills in that war were Russians? Sutyagin, Pepelyayev, and Kirilovich who downed tons of F-86s and killed a lot of US airmen - are these Americans or Russians? Looool. So who produces the best pilots now?

Go study the modern Russian combat doctrine, chain of command, deployment etc. Vis-a-vis Soviet's and come back with a better retort devoid of propaganda. Capability on paper is different from capability when the guns go off - don't conflate two different things. If it were to be about capability on paper - Spartans wouldn't have defeated Persians; Hannibal wouldn't have led Carthaginians to Rome; the UK would've surrendered to the Nazis; the Russians wouldn't have defeated the Nazis by destroying over 90% of their strength; Ethiopia wouldn't have defeated Italy during the first war; Vietnam wouldn't have defeated the yanks; Hezbollah wouldn't have defeat Israel in 2006; and the PLA's decisive defeat of the US led coalition during the Korean War.

They don't need to join any other organisation to leave NATO. Any US miscalculations - they will just back off and leave the US and dry by itself. And we all know the US can't even win a war against small Iran by itself. Now imagine the same country going against two formidable countries. Or can the US win a war against any 3rd rate country by itself? - doubt me, ask the Vietcongs.

Too much lies in one post

1st you said there were few Russians, Now Russians were aces lol. Your pants are on fire already.

USAF had overwhelming victories with the Sabre. the only time the migs had the upper hand was when they were fighting the F-80. When the Sabre showed up, It was game over. In fact the only way the commies kept escaping was by flying to China where the Sabre was not permitted to enter. I can start posting names here but i know you already saw it in the same place u dug up few Russian names that you claimed were hardly there in the first place

Instead of going back and forth, tell me one significant difference between the soviet and the Russian military doctrine

I dont understand what you are trying to say here. Do you know most of the hawkish NATO policies are driven by Europe and not the US? lemme give you 2 examples. Poland and the Baltics were the brain child of the Ukraine fiasco and the Eastern European members were the ones backing the Membership action plan in 2007 that finally led to the war in Georgia. Western Europeans might feel very safe. But Eastern and central Europe have different mentality because of their history with Russia.

Missy89:


Too much lies in one post

Raf was inconsequential in Korea. 1st you said there were few Russians, Now Russians were aces lol. Your pants are on fire already.

USAF had overwhelming victories with the Sabre. the only time the migs had the upper hand was when they were fighting the F-80. When the Sabre showed up, It was game over. In fact the only way the commies kept escaping was by flying to China where the Sabre was not permitted to enter. I can start posting names here but i know you already saw it in the same place u dug up few Russian names that you claimed were hardly there in the first place

Instead of going back and forth, tell me one significant difference between the soviet and the Russian military doctrine

I dont understand what you are trying to say here. Do you know most of the hawkish NATO policies are driven by Europe and not the US? lemme give you 2 examples. Poland and the Baltics were the brain child of the Ukraine fiasco and the Eastern European members were the ones backing the Membership action plan in 2007 that finally led to the war in Georgia. Western Europeans might feel very safe. But Eastern and central Europe have different mentality because of their history with Russia.

Loool. This what happens when folks are grasping at straws. I maintained my stance that there were few Soviet pilots during the Korean War compared to the N.Korean and Chinese pilots. However, the top aces of that war were Soviet pilots. If I'm lying why not post academic proofs of the top 5 aces of the Korean War with the most kills and let's see if they were not all Soviet Pilots? I would have done it myself, but I'm mobile right now. Regardless, I know the top 3 aces are:

- Sutyagin
- Pepelyayev
- Kirilovich

Post academic sources to prove me wrong. I dare you loool.

It seems you don't understand European politics. When have Europeans ever agreed on one thing, without everyone having to make concessions? The tiny ones playing the hawkish games with the US are inconsequential in the scheme of things and they don't have the military power to support the US. The countries that matter in Europe are tired of US and they will pull out of NATO if the US gets itself entangled in any big war. France for example seldom follows the US to any war and Chirac's critique of the Iraq invasion is still fresh. The Germans have had enough of the US and if the opportunity ever presents itself for them to break free - they will grab it with open arms, hence they backed Russian intervention in Syria. Ditto Italy that doesn't even care about the US. Then you have Spain and Portugal, two of the most pro-Russian countries in Europe. Poland is a shytehole, who cares about the poles?

Shymm3x:


Loool. This what happens when folks are grasping at straws. I maintained my stance that there were few Soviet pilots during the Korean War compared to the N.Korean and Chinese pilots. However, the top aces of that war were Soviet pilots. If I'm lying why not post academic proofs of the top 5 aces of the Korean War with the most kills and let's see if they were not all Soviet Pilots? I would have done it myself, but I'm mobile right now. Regardless, I know the top 3 aces are:

- Sutyagin
- Pepelyayev
- Kirilovich

Post academic sources to prove me wrong. I dare you loool.

It seems you don't understand European politics. When have Europeans ever agreed on one thing, without everyone having to make concessions? The tiny ones playing the hawkish games with the US are inconsequential in the scheme of things and they don't have the military power to support the US. The countries that matter in Europe are tired of US and they will pull out of NATO if the US gets itself entangled in any big war. France for example seldom follows the US to any war and Chirac's critique of the Iraq invasion is still fresh. The Germans have had enough of the US and if the opportunity ever presents itself for them to break free - they will grab it with open arms, hence they backed Russian intervention in Syria. Ditto Italy that doesn't even care about the US. Then you have Spain and Portugal, two of the most pro-Russian countries in Europe. Poland is a shytehole, who cares about the poles?

Sorry but these kills only happened on the pages of Pravda and Tass. The list of Soviet kills have always been subject to dispute and there is very little evidence to prove other wise. Sutyagin kills have long be contested from 21 to 12 to 5 no concrete prove since they fought the war unofficially too and only start adding up numbers on their heads.

James Jabara and McConnell kills however will pass any academic scrutiny. If you are off your mobile come and support your soviet aces with hard core evidence. I will be waiting

So i did some quick research on your aces

The book Soviet MiG-15 Aces of the Korean War By Leonid Krylov, Yuri Tepsurkaev


Pepelyayev and Sutyagin had 12 confirmed UN kills, Kirilovich had 10. ( The rest were over claims and never confirmed)


One the other hand, McConnell had 16, Jabara 15, Pete Fernandez 14, Davis 14


Here is another link scrutinizing every Sutyagin kills and it was brought down to 5.

http://stephenesherman.com/discussions/sutyagin.html

Please give me your own source and lets compare notes here.

I added exerpts from the book to show you why soviet claims are just fantasies and cannot be verified because their jet cameras was rubbish

Missy89:
So i did some quick research on your aces

The book Soviet MiG-15 Aces of the Korean War By Leonid Krylov, Yuri Tepsurkaev


Pepelyayev and Sutyagin had 12 confirmed UN kills, Kirilovich had 10. ( The rest were over claims and never confirmed)


One the other hand, McConnell had 16, Jabara 15, Pete Fernandez 14, Davis 14


Here is another link scrutinizing every Sutyagin kills and it was brought down to 5.

http://stephenesherman.com/discussions/sutyagin.html

Please give me your own source and lets compare notes here.

I added exerpts from the book to show you why soviet claims are just fantasies and cannot be verified because their jet cameras was rubbish

Your source is not credible!
We still remembered the weapons of Mass destruction that made you bombed over a million Iraqis to their early grave.
only for Blair to apologize.

OAUTemitayo:
Your source is not credible!
We still remembered the weapons of Mass destruction that made you bombed over a million Iraqis to their early grave.
only for Blair to apologize.

Don't mind the liar. She's good at telling lies and confusing herself.
Believe her at your perils.

neocortex:


Stop fantasizing on Russias might.
US will ruin Russia, if there is a face-off, the fact the world is avoiding a multi-nation
conflict does not make anyone inferior.
I guess you are one of those who think Russia and U.S shares a border
and putin can just fire his nuclear weapon at washington if he so wishes.

The bolded is the biggest joke of the century.
Should there be a direct face-off between the U.S and Russia,
putin committing suicide the same way hitler did.

Lol, you obviously don't comprehend well and obviously you have no clue really. The nuclear deterent is enough for US to see it as too costly and Russia would have no problem loosing millions of soldiers in a bid to hurt US.

Russian might is not something to sniff at, the media has massages US might to look big and strong, an army force that was sent packing out I'd Iraq after over 10 years with its tail between its legs and still trying after over 14 to do something concrete in Afghanistan against towel heads.

US must be glad they left Iraq before IS came along cause CNN would have turned into an obituary station. The fact remains the collateral damage is something US take more seriously than Russia, who are willing to throw bodies on the line for victory, they don't play nice or play fair, forget navy Seals or CIA SF Spetnaz are the real deal and there are enough of them to throw at a war effort.

I'm not for war but I have calculated it would be impossible for either if them to penetrate each other, to drop nukes or inflict state wide destruction

Missy89:


Are you saying the B2 did not operate in Iraq?

It did after the B52 and A10 did all the job, proven fact a Senate hearing confirmed it. It was too risky the idea of one being shot down. Only 40% of their strikes hit the target.

mazeltov:
see all these things are madia war. It's quiet unfortunate that our media has become a puppet to these Super powers. Take for example, it was reported that Russian Su-24 jam American Donald cook ship and all the 27 crews resigned immediately. I wonder when war ships like destroyer started having 27 crews. Again it was reported that Turkey scrmbled one Russian jet which is unreal, and so many more like that. But sadly, many people have increasingly become subjects and slaves of media influence to a potentially dangerous control of public opinion. See, every conflict is fought on two grounds- the battle field and the minds of people through propaganda. You can possibly know the capability of your enemy until a real challenge is stage. Who would ever think of Vietnam defeating America in war. The real battle is the propaganda and both the western media and the eastern bric media are good at misleading people with distortion, exageration, subjectivity and inaccuracy and even fabrications in order to receive support and sense of legitimacy. The battle field is on media.

When you people say that Vietnam defeated America in war,i wonder if you are being ironic because ,every documentation of that war says that America lost 55 thousand solders (give or take ) but the North Vietnamese lost over a million or figures close to that range.Every way you look at it whether proportionally or comparatively using the figures against the backdrop of each of the countries population, i don't really see how the US "lost" the war.
I am not blind to the fact that the American public opinion was totally against that war and so the death of each solder, airman, sailor that died felt like a hundred.

I don't get all the silly arguments, both countries are strong and almost equal arsenal but the US has got more money... That's what it will come down to in a war between the two... Who can hold out the longest, wins the war....

Tkester:


Don't mind the liar. She's good at telling lies and confusing herself.
Believe her at your perils.

still stalking eh? If i am lying please post your own credible source.

Missy89:

Sorry but these kills only happened on the pages of Pravda and Tass. The list of Soviet kills have always been subject to dispute and there is very little evidence to prove other wise. Sutyagin kills have long be contested from 21 to 12 to 5 no concrete prove since they fought the war unofficially too and only start adding up numbers on their heads.

James Jabara and McConnell kills however will pass any academic scrutiny. If you are off your mobile come and support your soviet aces with hard core evidence. I will be waiting

Lmao...grasping at straws, are we? When the hell did I start reading "Pravda" and "Tass"? For you to even know those sources, you must be a regular there.

Yes, you had to go quote revisionist, the same ones who claimed that the US defeated the Nazis, no? The same US that was yet to join the war, when the Russians were annihilating the Germans, and only decided to do the Pearl Harbor false flag, when it was obvious that Soviets were going to win against the Nazis...and the race to the Berlin must begin.

I bet the US will always try to deflate other people's credit, just to look pseudo-superior and for propaganda. The same they keep telling us the Soviets were beaten blue-black in Afghanistan, but the US loses in the same country is far more than the Soviet's losses. And the same reason the US will never disclose the real number of American lives lost during and after the Vietnam war.

Anyway, let me give you US sources:

Reforming America's Overhyped Airpower

Even now, the American military services' search for heroes- needed to maintain popular support for massive military budgets - often elevates people to glory that some would say is not entirely justifiable. This is especially true in the domain of airpower which makes the largest demands of all on the public purse.

Fast forward to the Korean War, in which American pilots claimed a kill ratio of between 10 and 12 to 1 against enemy fighters. American pilots in their F-86 Sabres fought well against Chinese and North Korean MiG-15 pilots, but that ratio, and the notion that the air war over Korea was a one-sided American victory has been called into question in recent years. Indeed, as Dorr, Lake and Thompson said "An air-to-air kill:loss ratio which appeared to be in the order of 10:1 after the war now appears closer to 2:1."(4) In addition, they point out, "a 1:1 ratio [is] conceivable if F-80s and F-84s were brought into the equation."(5)

The reason for the skepticism is that we now know that Soviet pilots, many of them experienced veterans of WWII air combat, flew covertly in the Korean War also, and they contest the American boasts as well. While the MiG was slightly superior in acceleration and low speed turn rate, Colonel John Boyd maintained that the Sabre had an edge because it was technically better in transient maneuverability. Notwithstanding this, a 2008 RAND study suggests that the kill ratio between US F-86 pilots and Soviet MiG-15s was "likely 1.3:1".(6) Also keep in mind that the Soviet Union claimed 52 aces in the Korean War, whereas America can only claim 41.(7) It appears that the top two aces of the war were Soviet pilots, and Soviet MiG-15 pilots themselves say they achieved a ratio of 4:1 against allied aircraft.( Furthermore, they argue that their procedures for confirming kills were far more rigorous than the Americans.(9)

All this is quite consistent with the pioneering work by air historians like Jeffrey L. Ethell who have examined in dogfight-by-dogfight detail the conflicting air combat claims of both sides in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Their evidence is overwhelming: all air forces exaggerate their air-to-air (and ground target) kill claims, while tending to understate their own losses. The historians' most consistent finding is that the skills of individual pilots, as opposed to aircraft technical performance, were always the critical factor. Given the WWI Rickenbacker mythbuilding and the continuing USAF and USN inflation of heroes and kill claims in subsequent wars, the Soviet challenge over the skies of Korea must not be dismissed as a cakewalk for the Americans.

The American claim of mastery of the skies during the Korean War becomes even more dubious when one looks at the poor performance of USAF and USN pilots in exercises with NATO air forces in the 1950s and 1960s.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/148003/an-iconoclastic-look-at-us-airpower.html

And for the aces:

During the time that the "Honchos" (the nickname given by the Sabre pilots to excellent MiG pilots) were in Korea, between April 1951 and January 1952, they shot down or damaged beyond repair 142 UN aircraft against 68 losses, an overall 2:1 kill ratio. Their most successful month was October 1951, when the Soviet MiG-15s bagged 7 F-86s, 6 F-84Es, 2 RF-80As and one F-80C, one Meteor and 10 B-29As -24 victories- and suffered only 8 MiGs lost. During that period over 30 Soviet MiG-15 pilots became aces, among them the already mentioned Nikolai Sutyagin (21 kills); and also Yevgeni Pepelyayev (19), Lev Shchukin (17), Sergei Kramarenko (13), Mikhail Ponomaryev (11), Dmitri Samoylov (10), etc.

http://acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html

Both are US sources. Now come back with a better rebuttal - not US propaganda machine. The first article I referenced from an American already killed ya propaganda.

Shymm3x:


Lmao...grasping at straws, are we? When the hell did I start reading "Pravda" and "Tass"? For you to even know those sources, you must be a regular there.

Yes, you had to go quote revisionist, the same ones who claimed that the US defeated the Nazis, no? The same US that was yet to join the war, when the Russians were annihilating the Germans, and only decided to do the Pearl Harbor false flag, when it was obvious that Soviets were going to win against the Nazis...and the race to the Berlin must begin.

I bet the US will always try to deflate other people's credit, just to look pseudo-superior and for propaganda. The same they keep telling us the Soviets were beaten blue-black in Afghanistan, but the US loses in the same country is far more than the Soviet's losses. And the same reason the US will never disclose the real number of American lives lost during and after the Vietnam war.

Anyway, let me give you US sources:


And for the aces:

Both are US sources. Now come back with a better rebuttal - not US propaganda machine. The first article I referenced from an American already killed ya propaganda.

I dont understand your rant in the first 3 paragraphs.

Show me evidence of confirmed kills not online blogs. That is what i asked how is that so hard?

Yevgeni Pepelyayev himself said that he could only confirm 6 of kills when he was interviewed in 1993. the same link you are quoting had a chart of Yevgeni Pepelyayev kills and only 13 was confirmed.

Here is a chart from your source

Missy89:


I dont understand your rant in the first 3 paragraphs.

Show me evidence of confirmed kills not online blogs. That is what i asked how is that so hard?

Yevgeni Pepelyayev himself said that he could only confirm 6 of kills when he was interviewed in 1993. the same link you are quoting had a chart of Yevgeni Pepelyayev kills and only 13 was confirmed.

You're a clown!

So, an academic journal posted online is a blog to you, no?

Did you even bother to check the link?

So "Straus Military Project at POGO; issued Sept. 17, 2013 by By Roger Thompson" is a blog to you?

Just shut up! This is what happens when propaganda overrides critical/logical thinking. Take a look at how you have been flopping all over the thread like someone suffering from epilepsy - moving from one topic to other, while getting ya arse whopped everywhere. Got to bed!

Using the same source you provided. This is Joseph McConnell kills all confirmed. Show me Pepelyayev and Sutyagin kills

I asserted that most of the MiG-15s were piloted by the Chinese and North Koreans - and a few Soviet airmen. The source proved that by alluding to the Soviets mostly doing covert operations. And the overwhelming majority of the MiG-15s shot down by the yanks were ones piloted by the Chinese and N.Koreans, yet Russians still secured the highest number of aces. Evidently, that shows the Russians were the better pilots.

Prove me wrong and stop posting US propaganda and inflated aces everywhere.

Missy89:
Using the same source you provided. This is Joseph McConnell kills all confirmed. Show me Pepelyayev and Sutyagin kills

Confirmed by who?

Yujin:

You're very correct. I've always known that any group of persons or country that can master and manipulate the various arrays of waves would be very able to disable an electronic programmed arsenal. This is because today the level of our technology is dependant on waves. Radio waves, internet and the satellites. If you can manipulate it you will be able to blind your enemies while having a field day pummeling them. I think Russia has been able to achieve that. Its surprising that the mighty US couldn't think beyond this or they may just be pretending to discover Russia's true capabilities.

i say,we africans should invest in rockets,that can destroy any satellite in space......we must make them blind...so that they dont dear to come and pisss us off again...

Shymm3x:
I asserted that most of the MiG-15s were piloted by the Chinese and North Koreans - and a few Soviet airmen. The source proved that by alluding to the Soviets mostly doing covert operations. And the overwhelming majority of the MiG-15s shot down by the yanks were ones piloted by the Chinese and N.Koreans, yet Russians still secured the highest number of aces. Evidently, that shows the Russians were the better pilots.

Prove me wrong and stop posting US propaganda and inflated aces everywhere.

So according to your logic. US numbers are inflated but the Russian number aren't? Russians had over 50 pilots flying in Mig alley so how is that just a few? You have no evidence whatsoever to corroborate you claim yet i am the one posting propaganda. all you have to do is read the same link you posted here. Gerraoutahere man

Shymm3x:


Confirmed by who?

I will tell you who once i know how Sutyagin and Pepelyayev shot down 21 and 19 jets respectively. Where did you get your #

Missy89:


So according to your logic. US numbers are inflated but the Russian number aren't? Russians had over 50 pilots flying in Mig alley so how is that just a few? You have no evidence whatsoever to corroborate you claim yet i am the one posting propaganda. all you have to do is read the same link you posted here. Gerraoutahere man

Lol. Even with the inflated numbers - Russian aces still outnumber US'.

Well, the US claimed it destroyed over 840 MiG-15s. So, if the Russians only piloted about 50, out of the over 800 - isn't that very few? Yet they still had the most aces. Common sense should tell you that they were the better pilots and most of the aces the yanks got were against the poorly trained Chinese and N.Koreans. However, because you're so far deep in useless propaganda - you won't want to admit that.

You lost!