^ The only thing you so impressively presented is your ability to glean evidences from Sunni literature, especially that of Alamah Albany (RA). That I think is very problematic. I am not a scholar of Hadith to analyse authenticity of those ahadith you cited against Hadrat Aisha(RA).

The thing is, like I previously presented, that Rosullah(SAW) also considered Aisha part of his Al-bayt. I already cited the hadith above. What the hadith you quoted doesnt say is "special household". My point is it could have been mere versions to suit each sect. The hadith I quoted clearly state that prophet mentioned Aisha as well. And that is Sunni hadith.

I also cited Aisha's (RA) involvement in the Battle Of Jamal that she was not the commander as you previously claimed.

There is no doubt that there were mistakes on her part which she regreted. I clearly demonstrated that as well. This is why I said earlier that these are no issues that have greater negative effect on the Deen. Take the case of Abu Bakr(RA) and Fatimah(RA) for instance, the prophet love both and are beloved to him. Yet, after the prophet, both quarreled till their last breath. Who's going to judge that except Allah. Yet, Allah and His prophet revered these people.

Reading from Sunni tradition, it's clear that they have no problem with Al-bayt as understood by the Shi'i. To me, all i can say is there is some sort of hatred, schism that only led to these disagreement btw the two major sects.


End

@Empiree, what do you understand with the hadith:{Fatima is part of me and I am part of Fatima, whoever angers her angers me}.

Then, I ask you of your understanding of ahadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain?!

AlBaqir:
@Empire.e, what do you understand with the hadith:{Fatima is part of me and I am part of Fatima, whoever angers her angers me}.

The hadith was originally narrated concerning ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him). Bukhaari and Muslim narrated that al-Miswar ibn Makhramah said: ‘Ali proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahl. When Fatimah heard of that she came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said to him: Your people are saying that you do not get angry for the sake of your daughters, and ‘Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) stood up and I heard him when he recited the shahaadah, then he said: “I gave a daughter of mine in marriage to Abu’l-‘Aas ibn al-Rabee’, and when he spoke he told me the truth. Fatimah bint Muhammad is a part of me, and I do not like for her to be hurt. By Allah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah and the daughter of the enemy of Allah will not be joined together as wives of one man.” So ‘Ali abandoned that proposal. According to a version narrated by al-Bukhaari: “Fatimah is part of me and whoever angers her angers me.” [al-Bukhaari no. 3523 and 3556; Muslim, no. 2449].

By examining the report quoted above it will be clear that if blame were to be laid on anyone, it would be laid on ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), because the reason why this hadith was narrated was his wish to propose marriage to the daughter of Abu Jahl, as the result of which Fatimah (may Allah be pleased with her) became angry. [size=15pt]It is established among the scholars of Usool that what counts is the general meaning of the words, not the specific reason for them,[/size] but it is also established that the reason for the text must be taken into account first and foremost and the reason cannot be excluded at all.

When some Shia quote this hadith as evidence for criticizing Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him), because of their ignorance and trickery, they conceal the fact that criticism if there is any criticism, would be directed at ‘Ali first of all.

* The anger mentioned in the hadith occurred for a specific reason which is mentioned above. This indicates that the anger arose not because Fatimah(RA) was infallible or whatever claims some people make because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was keen to protect his daughter’s feelings, and what upset her also upset him (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). This is indicated by what is mentioned in the report of Muslim: “Fatimah is a part of me and what hurts her hurts me.” This was offence caused to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and it has nothing to do with the matter of infallibility as those some claim. This is genesis of saying 'if you beat my daughter you beat me.' The phrase commonly used in Africa when their daughters are given in marriage.


* The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said in other sahih ahadith: “Whoever obeys me had obeyed Allah and whoever disobeys me has disobeyed Allah. Whoever obeys my commander has obeyed me and whoever disobeys my commander has disobeyed me.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 6718; Muslim, no. 1835. According to consensus, even among the Raafidis, this does not mean that the commander is infallible; rather some of the commanders sent by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) made mistakes in some matters which it is known went against the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

An example of that is the proven report in which:

‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent out an expedition and he appointed in charge of them a man from among the Ansaar and told them to obey him. He got angry and said: Didn’t the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tell you to obey me? They said: Yes. He said: Then gather firewood for me. So they gathered it for him and he said: Light a fire. So they lit a fire. He said: Enter it. So they thought of entering it, but some of them held others back and said: We have fled to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to escape the fire. They stayed until the fire burned out and his anger died down. News of that reached the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said: “If you had entered it you would never have come out of it until the Day of Resurrection. Obedience is only with regard to that which is right and proper.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 4085; Muslim, no. 1840. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) restricted this obedience only to that which is right and proper. So if the anger of Faatimah was part of the anger of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then according to consensus it is limited only to that which is right and proper, and if the anger of Faatimah was for reasons that were not in accordance with the law of Allaah, then what is right and proper is to implement the law of Allaah, even if it angered Faatimah. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If Faatimah the daughter of Muhammad were to steal, I would cut off her hand.” And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O Faatimah bint Muhammad, save yourselves, for I cannot avail you anything before Allaah, ask for whatever you want of my wealth.” This implies that she was not infallible.


[size=13pt]Manhaaj al-Sunnah al-Nabawiyyah, 4/250.[/size]

Then, I ask you of your understanding of ahadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain?!

This ahadith is quiet profound. Although i basically see it pretty much as Sahih ahadith. Definitely, it is worthy of merit.

^Simple question brother, what is your understanding of Hadith Thaqalain and Hadith Khalifatain? If you have forgotten the ahadith, I will quote it with their Sanad, grading and sources. The ahadith are Mutawattir.

# About {Fatima is part of me whoever angers her angers me}. If am not mistaken, Imam Muslim did not recorded the so-called story or rather tale documented by Imam Bukhari. Imam Muslim only narrated the hadith. Imam al-Hakim, Asqalani, Al-Hindi et al equally narrated this hadith without those tale.

Then Empiree when you source for replies, endeavor to scrutinize it before you post lest you quote the mistakes, abuse of the parent writer.

The so-called story simply revealed three things:

1. Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) did not lived by the Quran. Quran emphatically declared that a Muslim male can marry 2,3,4 wives of his choices. Even the Prophet himself married 11 wives. Why did he denied Ali of his religious rites provided the daughter of Abu Jahl was a muslim. [I seek Allah's refuge from this nonsense].
The idiots that forged the story as part of the hadith never thought of this fatal implication.

2. Ali (alaihim Salam) has contradicted Quran for him to ever want to marry a Mushrikat (polytheist woman) provided Abu Jahl's daughter was a kafir. [I seek Allah's refuge from this nonsense].

Allah declared it Haram for Muslim to marry Mushriqun.

3. Fatima (alayha Salam) rejected Allah's order for her husband to marry another wife [I seek Allah's refuge of this].

Mr Empiree, believing in that nonsense story as part of the hadith, you simply have those three questions to ask yourself if you have Taqwa.

^ My mentions dont come on whenever you mentioned me. Notice that since yesterday.

Anyways, the three points you raised, again, i say this is another typical example of what I have been saying. It's just another Sunni version of the whole thing- just like in Shi'ism. That's the way i see it. Nothing more.

Empiree:
^ My mentions dont come on whenever you mentioned me. Notice that since yesterday.

Anyways, the three points you raised, again, i say this is another typical example of what I have been saying. It's just another Sunni version of the whole thing- just like in Shi'ism. That's the way i see it. Nothing more.

Allah says: {O Dawud! We have made you a Khalifa on earth so Judge among the people with TRUTH}.
Mr Empiree this ayah hamper you hard with the above reply of yours. Interestingly, your Sheik, Imran Hussein and you yourself labored hard to defend Umar in the hadith of "verse of stoning" despite being reported by the two Sahihs. So why do you find it difficult to defend your Prophet and his Ahlulbayt? Rather to protect an interest, you choose to label it "Sunni version - Shia version of the whole thing". Is that academical?

# As per the Chief Nasibi's remarks, he had a fair comments but worst conclusion. I bet Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah never believed in that stupid story, perhaps because of its fatal implications. If had, he would have buried himself within that story to justify that those words of the Prophet is restricted to that story of Ali wanting to marry Abu Jahl's daughter [Authubillah min dhalik].

However, he has raised another issue regarding the infallibility of Bibi Fatima [salamullahi alayha]. Sheik doubted Bibi Fatima's infallibility on non-existing evidence. Yes! Non-existing. Allah clearly states that the Ahl al-bayt are free of al-Rijz and cleansed Absolutely. Fatima was the ONLY female of this blessed group [the Ahlul Kisa]. The word "al-Rijz" is used in the Quran with prefix "al". This alone behead our Sheik and all of his Nawasib followers.

Hummm, alright.

Unless something more interesting comes up later on this thread,

Resemblance Of Habits With The Holy Prophet (saw)

# Imam Al-Hakim:

The narrations are Saheeh (Authentic) that the Messenger of Allah (saw) used to stand up and welcome Faatimah and kiss her hand every time she came to him, due to the respect of her mother Khadijah and herself, as it is narrated: Aboo Al-Abbas Muhammad ibn Ya’qoob from Muhammad ibn Ishaq Al-Sanhani from Uthman ibn Umar from Israhil from Maisara ibn Habib from Al Minhal ibn Amr from A'isha Bint Talha from A'isha who said: "I have never seen someone more similar to the Messenger of Allah (saw) in speech and talking than Faatimah. And everytime when she came upon the Messenger of Allah (swt), he used to stand up to welcome her and took her hand and kissed her hand and seated her in his sitting place, and when the Messenger of Allah (saw) went upon her, she used to stand up and welcome him (saw) and took his hand and kissed his hand. She came upon the Messenger of Allah (saw) in his illness in which he died. He welcomed her and kissed her and told her some secret then she cried and he (saw) told her some secret again and she laughed, then I said: I had supposed of this woman excellence over the other women, and now I see that she is laughing right after weeping, so I asked her and she said: 'I will not tell you the secret.' When the Messenger of Allah (saw) died, I asked her again and she said: 'The Messenger of Allah (saw) told me that he is going to die, so I cried and then he told me that I will be the first one among his family who will join him.'

Footnote: Al-Hakim: This Hadeeth is Saheeh (Authentic) based on the criteria of Sheikhayn Bukhari and Muslim collectors of 'Al-Saheeh', because all of it’s narrators are 'Thiqah' (Trustworthy).

Source: Fadhahil Faatimah Al-Zahra of Al-Hakim. Pg. # 35

# Al-Tabarani also documents:

Narrated Alee from Al-Hassan ibn Shawkar from Isma’eel ibn Ja’far from Israhil from Maisara ibn Habib from Al-Minhal ibn Amr from A'isha Bint Talha from A'isha who said:

"I have never seen among the people Allah has created, someone more similar to the Messenger of Allah (saw) in religion and sitting and walking than Faatimah and every time when the Messenger of Allah (saw) went upon her, she used to stand up and welcome him (saw) and took his hand and kissed his hand and seated him in her sitting place. And everytime when she came upon the Messenger of Allah (saw), he used to stand up to welcome her and took her hand and kissed her hand and seated her in his sitting place. Once she came upon the Messenger of Allah (saw) in his house, he told her some secret then she cried and he (saw) told her some secret again and she laughed, A'isha said: Then I said to the other women: "I had supposed of this woman excellence over the other women, and now I see that she is laughing right after weeping", so I asked her: "What did the Messenger of Allah (saw) tell you?" And she did not reveal it. When the Messenger of Allah (saw) died, I asked her again and she said: 'The Messenger of Allah (saw) told me that he is going to die in that illness, so I became restless and cried and then he told me that I will be the first one among his family who will join him, and I became happy because of that and laughed.'

Source: Mohjam Al-Awsat of Al-Tabarani. Vol. 4, Pg. # 242

# Allamah Al-Albani:

Narrated Muhammad ibn Bashar from Uthman ibn Umar from Israeel from Maysara ibn Habib from Al-Menhal ibn Amr from A'isha daughter of Talha from A'isha who said:

"I have not seen anyone resembling Allah’s Messenger (saw) more closely than Faatimah daughter of Allah’s Messenger (saw) in habits, gait and characteristics, and in her getting up and her sitting down. When she came to the Prophet (saw) he would stand up for her, kiss her and make her sit in his place. And when he visited her, she stood up from her seat, kissed him and gave him her place to sit down. When he was taken ill, she came to him, fell down on him, and kissed him. Then she raised her head and wept. Again, she fell down on him, and raised her head and laughed. I said (to myself). “I had thought that she was the most intelligent of women, but, after all, she is a woman.” When the Prophet (saw) died, I said to her, ‘What do you say when you fell down on the Prophet (saw) and raised your head (afterwards), you wept. Then again, you tell down, raised your head and laughed, what made you do that?” She said, “While he was alive, I had kept this secret. He informed me that he would die from that illness, so I wept. Then he informed me that I would be the quickest of his family to meet him. So at that time, I laughed."

Al-Albani: It is Saheeh (Authentic)

Source: Saheeh Sunan Al-Tirmidhi. Vol. 3, Pg. # 570 - 571 [Annotator: Nasir deen al-Albani]

Albani also document same hadith in: Al-Adab Al-Mufrad. Pg. # 355 - 356, H. # 947 / 725

To be continue, in sha Allah

@AlBaqir and Empiree

I don't think it is in our place to talk about the issues in their relationship or consequences of those issues. What we all know is that they were in communication before the prophet's death(SAW). I suggest you stop turning non issues into issues

@AlBaqir, I am going to disagree with your portrayal of Fatimah. Don't you think it is enough that she was the prophet's daughter, she was modest, honest and obedient ? Unarguably, she is a model for other Muslim women so why must you bring up issue on what or what not she is or she is going to be?

I no understand you people at all.

daretodiffer:
@AlBaqir and Emp.iree

I don't think it is in our place to talk about the issues in their relationship or consequences of those issues. What we all know is that they were in communication before the prophet's death(SAW). I suggest you stop turning non issues into issues

@AlBaqir, I am going to disagree with your portrayal of Fatimah. Don't you think it is enough that she was the prophet's daughter, she was modest, honest and obedient ? Unarguably, she is a model for other Muslim women so why must you bring up issue on what or what not she is or she is going to be?

I no understand you people at all.

Thanks. Perhaps you could see I tried to avoid this thread. This is non issue to me either. But sometimes it's necessary to challenge the brother for saying things dispeakable about Aisha(ra) and Sahaba (first 3 imams - RA). I never wanted to get on sectarian talks but it looks like he's so much interested.

Please visit his other threads opened few days ago to confirm what I'm saying. It's unhealthy to be arguing over sectarian issues especially in this day and age where muslims are at the center of every bad news.

Empiree:
Thanks. Perhaps you could see I tried to avoid this thread. This is non issue to me either. But sometimes it's necessary to challenge the brother for saying things dispeakable about Aisha(ra) and Sahaba (first 3 imams - RA). I never want to get on sectarian talks but it looks like he's so much interested.

Please visit his other threads opened few days ago to confirm what I'm saying. It's unhealthy to be arguing over sectarian issues especially in this day and age where muslims are at the center of every bad news.

It is beyond dispensable. I am so searching for how those issues are relevant to being a Muslim or to the issues threatening the survival of Islam and Muslims.

You are not God neither are you the prophet. If God or the prophet had issues with Aidha and the other Caliphs, he would not have allowed them to be part of the prophet's close circle neither would he have allowed Aisha marry the prophet. Either way, it is not an issue!!!

daretodiffer:


It is beyond dispensable. I am so searching for how those issues are relevant to being a Muslim or to the issues threatening the survival of Islam and Muslims.

You are not God neither are you the prophet. If God or the prophet had issues with Aidha and the other Caliphs, he would not have allowed them to be part of the prophet's close circle neither would he have allowed Aisha marry the prophet. Either way, it is not an issue!!!

Lobatan! This I have told him severally but he doesn't get it. Thanks for your understanding.

daretodiffer:
@AlBaqir and Empiree

I don't think it is in our place to talk about the issues in their relationship or consequences of those issues. What we all know is that they were in communication before the prophet's death(SAW). I suggest you stop turning non issues into issues

Honestly I don't know from which perspective exactly you are talking about. This thread is about Bibi Fatima (peace be upon her) and Umm Mu'minin Aisha only came to the fold on the issue of Ahl al-bayt. My explanations and definitions are crystal clear as per the Ahl al-bayt but Mr Empiree thought otherwise.

And there is no way any unbiased mind is going to discuss the Ahl al-bayt with respect to "Allah purifying them absolutely" without discussing who were those blessed people. ALL ahadith unanimously agreed that Prophet introduced them to be Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein with the exception of his wives. Ayah of Mubahala is another nail on the coffin exempting the wives. Yet Mr Empiree insist the wives were part without any substantial evidence. This is what dragged us to surah Tahrim about Aisha and Hafsah.

And I simply don't understand why an academic discussion should be perceived as non-issues and emotionally frowned at especially if it pertains to a particular icons. Allah gave plenty examples in His book about people of the past. So why can't we study those before us in light of the Quran and authentic narration? In fact that is what is commanded in the Quran.Too much love of a personality will blind one's inner eye for truth.

"Search the truth and you will recognize its people" ~ Imam Ali. You don't search the truth by name of personality.

daretodiffer:

@AlBaqir, I am going to disagree with your portrayal of Fatimah. Don't you think it is enough that she was the prophet's daughter, she was modest, honest and obedient ? Unarguably, she is a model for other Muslim women so why must you bring up issue on what or what not she is or she is going to be?

I no understand you people at all.

Sorry am an old school. I simply don't understand @underlined. Kindly help break it down.

# Portrayal of Bibi Fatima? Sorry how exactly did Albaqir portray her? This thread is evidenced based from Quran and Sahih ahadith. Where do I introduced my personal formulations?

# Cant Fatima just be Prophet's daughter? Prophet had many daughters and granddaughters to start with. Nabi Yaqub (alaihi Salam) had several sons but why did he cared so much for Yusuf (alaihim Salam) to the extent that when they got separated, despite assurance from Allah that Yaqub will find his lost son, he continue crying till he became blind?!

Fatima's status in this Ummah is nearly forgotten and that of other women (esp Aisha) has been raised so much high that innocent people will think she was the best of this Ummah.

# Fatima as a role model?! Yes! She's not only a role model but the best role model just like her father. And for a person to become your role model, you simply need to know the person better.

AlBaqir:


Honestly I don't know from which perspective exactly you are talking about. This thread is about Bibi Fatima (peace be upon her) and Umm Mu'minin Aisha only came to the fold on the issue of Ahl al-bayt. My explanations and definitions are crystal clear as per the Ahl al-bayt but Mr Empiree thought otherwise.

And there is no way any unbiased mind is going to discuss the Ahl al-bayt with respect to "Allah purifying them absolutely" without discussing who were those blessed people. ALL ahadith unanimously agreed that Prophet introduced them to be Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein with the exception of his wives. Ayah of Mubahala is another nail on the coffin exempting the wives. Yet Mr Empiree insist the wives were part without any substantial evidence. This is what dragged us to surah Tahrim about Aisha and Hafsah.

And I simply don't understand why an academic discussion should be perceived as non-issues and emotionally frowned at especially if it pertains to a particular icons. Allah gave plenty examples in His book about people of the past. So why can't we study those before us in light of the Quran and authentic narration? In fact that is what is commanded in the Quran.Too much love of a personality will blind one's inner eye for truth.

"Search the truth and you will recognize its people" ~ Imam Ali. You don't search the truth by name of personality.

You should never open a thread about what Fatima is or is not. She is a model to all muslimaahs (full stop)

An unbiased mind would not delve into the discussion of who makes up Ahl Al Bayt because for goodness sake I don't know how it affects you or Islam as a religion. Your business is with the prophet, the hadiths and the Quran.

If the subject matter was so significant to Islam, God would have highlighted those who are included. And my knowledge of Islam is enough to know that a married man's family comprises of him, his wife(ves) and children. Whatever issues the prophet and Aisha/other wives have is their personal issues. I can't remember where the prophet specifically ordered his followers to send his wives away after his death nor can I recall where it is written that they were estranged divorced before his death.

An unbiased mind wouldn't have sat down and tagged Fatimah, the leader of all women in all world. If it is not enough that she is a model, them nothing else would be enough for that an idle and unbiased mind.

Maybe it is high time you stop quoting others and start using your own mind. If your wife is not part of your household, what else is she part of, her father's?

daretodiffer:


You should never open a thread about what Fatima is or is not. She is a model to all muslimaahs (full stop)

An unbiased mind would not delve into the discussion of who makes up Ahl Al Bayt because for goodness sake I don't know how it affects you or Islam as a religion. Your business is with the prophet, the hadiths and the Quran.

If the subject matter was so significant to Islam, God would have highlighted those who are included. And my knowledge of Islam is enough to know that a married man's family comprises of him, his wife(ves) and children. Whatever issues the prophet and Aisha/other wives have is their personal issues. I can't remember where the prophet specifically ordered his followers to send his wives away after his death nor can I recall where it is written that they were estranged divorced before his death.

An unbiased mind wouldn't have sat down and tagged Fatimah, the leader of all women in all world. If it is not enough that she is a model, them nothing else would be enough for that an idle and unbiased mind.

Bingo! Obviously you haven't read the hadith Thaqalain (two weighty things) before. Here is it:

Imam Tirmidhi records:

Nasr b. And alRahman al-kufi - Zayd b. Al-Hasan al-Anmati - Jafar b. Muhammad - his father - Jabir b. Abd Allah:

I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, during his Hajj on the Day of Arafat while he was on his camel, delivering a sermon, and I heard him saying: O Mankind! I have left behind over you that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray: THE BOOK OF GOD AND MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL AL-BAYT (كتب الله وعترتي اهل بيتي)

Tirmidhi says on this riwayat: {And this hadith is Hasan gharib (i.e has a Hasan chain) from this route...}

Allamah al-Albani also has a simple comment: SAHIH

Ref: {al-Jami al-Sahih Sunan al-Tirmidhi (Beirut: Far Ihya al-Turath al-Arabi) [annotator: Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani], vol. 5, p.662 #3786}

You see how adherence to the offspring, Ahl al-bayt (and Quran) is linked with salvation?!

AlBaqir:


Bingo! Obviously you haven't read the hadith Thaqalain (two weighty things) before. Here is it:

Imam Tirmidhi records:

Nasr b. And alRahman al-kufi - Zayd b. Al-Hasan al-Anmati - Jafar b. Muhammad - his father - Jabir b. Abd Allah:

I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, during his Hajj on the Day of Arafat while he was on his camel, delivering a sermon, and I heard him saying: O Mankind! I have left behind over you that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray: THE BOOK OF GOD AND MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL AL-BAYT (كتب الله وعترتي اهل بيتي)

Tirmidhi says on this riwayat: {And this hadith is Hasan gharib (i.e has a Hasan chain) from this route...}

Allamah al-Albani also has a simple comment: SAHIH

Ref: {al-Jami al-Sahih Sunan al-Tirmidhi (Beirut: Far Ihya al-Turath al-Arabi) [annotator: Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani], vol. 5, p.662 #3786}

You see how adherence to the offspring, Ahl al-bayt (and Quran) is linked with salvation?!

Bingo!


Obviously you didn't read what you posted.

Where did the prophet mention those who make up his household? Where did he sat you down to be the judge and jury over his marital affairs? Where did he ask you to disregard his wives? Where did he tell you that his wives are not part of who he is? Where did he ask you to consider the meaning of Ahl Al Bayt with Islam?

If you can tell me how it is any one's business to make his household an issue then I might agree? You have to tell me who ordered us to search for those who are part of his household or not and the person that asked you to adjudicate whether or not they are worthy to be revered.

If the prophet has no problem with his people, why should you? Who are you to tell him what or what not his people should be?

You are way over what is expected of you as a Muslim

Empiree:
Thanks. Perhaps you could see I tried to avoid this thread. This is non issue to me either. But sometimes it's necessary to challenge the brother for saying things dispeakable about Aisha(ra) and Sahaba (first 3 imams - RA). I never wanted to get on sectarian talks but it looks like he's so much interested.

Please visit his other threads opened few days ago to confirm what I'm saying. It's unhealthy to be arguing over sectarian issues especially in this day and age where muslims are at the center of every bad news.

Empiree, Itaqillah! Fear God. Fear the day when nothing except only truthfulness will be judged by. Expose me that all my submissions about Aisha and the three caliphs are not from the Quran and Sahih ahadith. Its a big big shame on you guys that once you don't have things substantial to say, you accuse and castigate.

You called Shia misguided for calling your dear caliphs usurpers while it is documented in your prestigious books that Imam Ali was the first to labeled them as such. Imam al-Ghazali also concured. But all these personalities were guided but not Shia. Indeed love of personality usually blind one's inner eye to recognize and follow the truth.

AlBaqir:


Bingo! Obviously you haven't read the hadith Thaqalain (two weighty things) before. Here is it:

Imam Tirmidhi records:

Nasr b. And alRahman al-kufi - Zayd b. Al-Hasan al-Anmati - Jafar b. Muhammad - his father - Jabir b. Abd Allah:

I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, during his Hajj on the Day of Arafat while he was on his camel, delivering a sermon, and I heard him saying: O Mankind! I have left behind over you that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray: THE BOOK OF GOD AND MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL AL-BAYT (كتب الله وعترتي اهل بيتي)

Tirmidhi says on this riwayat: {And this hadith is Hasan gharib (i.e has a Hasan chain) from this route...}

Allamah al-Albani also has a simple comment: SAHIH

Ref: {al-Jami al-Sahih Sunan al-Tirmidhi (Beirut: Far Ihya al-Turath al-Arabi) [annotator: Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani], vol. 5, p.662 #3786}

You see how adherence to the offspring, Ahl al-bayt (and Quran) is linked with salvation?!

Ahl Al Bayt is an ambiguous word. If I were I will stop claiming to know what the prophet meant by it

http://islamqa.info/en/10055

daretodiffer:


Ahl Al Bayt is an ambiguous word. If I were I will stop claiming to know what the prophet meant by it

http://islamqa.info/en/10055

Ambi-what? Cant you see the hadith clearly where our Prophet said "...and MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL AL-BAYT"? Obviously the Prophet had closed any door of ambiguity with the word "my offspring" otherwise we will be fighting ourselves based on who exactly he meant by "Ahl al-bayt".

Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) clarifies always in an unambiguous word. Only thieves and liars twist his words.

AlBaqir:


Ambi-what? Cant you see the hadith clearly where our Prophet said "...and MY OFFSPRING, MY AHL AL-BAYT"? Obviously the Prophet had closed any door of ambiguity with the word "my offspring" otherwise we will be fighting ourselves based on who exactly he meant by "Ahl al-bayt".

Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) clarifies always in an unambiguous word. Only thieves and liars twist his words.

Can't you see the hadith where there is a comma after 'my offsprings'

Only a thieves and liars will claim to know what he never clarified especially when we also have hadiths that point to several meanings of who are included in Ahl Al Bayt.

daretodiffer:


Can't you see the hadith where there is a comma after 'my offsprings'

Only a thieves and liars will claim to know what he never clarified especially when we also have hadiths that point to several meanings of who are included in Ahl Al Bayt.

Sorry what is the function of that comma (,)?

Then here's the Arabic text if you know how to read (no offence ma'am) [(كتب الله وعترتي اهل بيتي)]. Nothing like comma there. Obviously there's no comma or full stops or bracket in the entire Quran. Translators put all these interpolation for simplicity and clarifications.

daretodiffer:

Bingo!


Obviously you didn't read what you posted.

Where did the prophet mention those who make up his household? Where did he sat you down to be the judge and jury over his marital affairs? Where did he ask you to disregard his wives? Where did he tell you that his wives are not part of who he is? Where did he ask you to consider the meaning of Ahl Al Bayt with Islam?

If you can tell me how it is any one's business to make his household an issue then I might agree? You have to tell me who ordered us to search for those who are part of his household or not and the person that asked you to adjudicate whether or not they are worthy to be revered.

If the prophet has no problem with his people, why should you? Who are you to tell him what or what not his people should be?

You are way over what is expected of you as a Muslim

It is crystal clear you did not read or understand ANYTHING on this thread. Plenty ahadith were presented where the Prophet declared only those five as his Ahl al-bayt with respect to verse of purification, verse of Mubahala and hadith Thaqalain. In all these, he kept all his wives out.

So many ahadith have been posted but again let me repost this:

Imam Muslim (d. 261H) also documents:

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyan appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from cursing Abu Turab ('Ali b. Abi Talib), whereupon he said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (s) having said about him that I would not abuse him … (first) I heard Allah's Messenger (s) say about 'Ali… And (second) I heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too (that is 'Ali)... (The third occasion is) when the (following) verse was revealed: "… come let us call our sons and your sons..." Allah's Messenger (s) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain and said: O Allah, these are my Ahl (family)"
{Sahih Muslim 2404 d. In-book reference: Book 44, Hadith 50. USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 31, Hadith 5915}

In other ahadith (about verse of purification), prophet covered them [Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein] in a black clothe and said "O Allah! These are my Ahl al-bayt purify them with absolute purification." Umm salamah specifically asked the prophet "Am I with them?" Prophet said: "You are on your path". [Hadith Sahih fi riwayat Tirmidhi and others]

No doubt his wives, cousins are part of his Ahl al-bayt but whenever the verse of purification, verse of Mubahala, hadith Thaqalain and Khalifatain are on focus, Prophet everytime clarify which among his Ahl al-bayt those declarations addressed.

@ albaqir you seems to take this issue of Ahl Al Bayt to serious rather extremist .... now my question , are you following Allah and his messenger or you are following the messenger Ahl Al Bayt?...bi sallam ...

AlBaqir:



The word "ahl al-bayt" means "household". If we are to go by the meaning alone, all the inhabitants of the house of the Prophet [wives, children, house-helps etc] were his "ahl al-bayt". In fact, Salman al-farsi was included as part of the prophet's ahl al-bayt despite being a non-arab, non-quraish, non-banu Hashim.

The arabs goes further to include all blood relations of a man as part of his ahl al-bayt. That's why you see some ahadith where the children of Abbas, Aqil, Jafar were counted as Prophet's household.

However, when it comes to: 1. Verse of purification, 2. Verse of Mubahala, 3. Hadith Thaqalain and 4. Hadith Khalifatain, the holy prophet himself specialized some individuals from the whole bulk of the so-called "Ahl al-bayt". This is what I refer as "special Ahl al-bayt"

Ref 1: Verse of Purification

Imam al-Tirmidhi documents:

Umar ibn Abi salamah, the dependent of the prophet, peace be upon him:

When this verse {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt, and to purify you absolutely} was revealed upon the prophet, peace be upon him, in the house of Umm salamah, he called Fatima, Hassan, and Hussayn and spread a clock over them while Ali was behind him. Then, he covered them with a clock. Then, he said, "O Allah! These are my Ahl al-bayt. So keep impurity away from them and purify them absolutely."

Umm salama said, "Am I with them, O prophet of Allah? He replied, "You are upon your place and you are upon a good thing."

Allamah al-Albani comments: Sahih

Ref: al-Jami al-Sahih Sunan al-Tirmidhi, [annotator: Nasir din al-Albani], vol. 5, p. 351, #3205.

Imam al-Hakim also document this same hadith in his {al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihain, vol. 3, p.158, #4705}

Furthermore, Imam Muslim records:

Aisha reported that Allah's apostle went out one morning wearing a stripped cloak of the black camel's hair, then there came Hasan b. Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Hussein and he wrapped him under it along the other one (Hassan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came Ali and he also took him under it and then said: {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt, and to purify you absolutely}

Ref: Sahih Muslim, vol.4, p.1883, #2424 (61)
www.sunnah.com/muslim/44
NB: interestingly, this is the ONLY hadith under the chapter of the merit of Ahl al-bayt in Sahih Muslim.

Observe: This verse {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt, and to purify you absolutely} was revealed ALONE, recited ALONE but as per arrangement today, it occupies verse 33 of sura Ahzab within the context where Allah address the wives of the Prophet.

Ref. 2: Verse of Mubahala

{So, if someone argues with you in this (matter) after what has come to you of the knowledge, say (O Muhammad), "come let us call our sons and your sons, OUR WOMEN and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then (let us) pray and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars."} [Sura Aal-Imran:60-62]

Imam al-Hakim (d. 403H) records:

There have been Mutawattir [successive sahih narration] reports in the Tafsir Books from Abd Allah b. Abbas and others that the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, on the day of al-Mubahala, held the hands of Ali, Hassan, Hussein, and they positioned Fatima behind them. Then he said, "These are our sons, ourselves and our women, so bring yourselves, your sons and your women. Then we do Mubahala and place curse of Allah upon the liars (among us)"

Ref: kitab Ma'rifah Ulum al-hadith, [4th edition, 1400H; Beirut], pg. 50.

Imam Muslim also records:

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Mu'awiyah b. Abi Sufyan appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said:

What prevents you from cursing Abu Turab [nickname of Ali], whereupon he said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger having said about him that I would not abuse him...

(The third occasion is) when the verse was revealed: ...come let us call our sons and your sons..." Allah's Messenger called 'Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein and said: O Allah, these are my Ahl (household).

Ref: Sahih Muslim 2404 d. In book ref: book 44, hadith 50; book 31, hadith 5915.

NB: Interestingly, the word "Nisa'ana" is in plural form and primarily according 90% references in the Qur'an, it refer to the wives of the Prophet (e.g see surah Ahzab). Alas! Prophet never took along ANY of his wives. This ayah was revealed in the 9th Hijri, a year after the demise of the Prophet when he challenged the Christians of Najran.

Ref 3: Hadith Thaqalain

The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said: "I am leaving behind over you the Two Weighty Things (al-Thaqalain): the Book of Allah and my offspring, Ahl al-bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the lake-fount."

Sheik Shuaib al-Arnaut comments: Sahih
{Al-Tabarani, Mu'jam al-Kabir, vol. 5, p. 169, #4980}

This hadith is Mutawattir. It is documented by Nasa,i, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, al-Albani et al.

this are the "special Ahl al-bayt". If you need more references, I will be more than glad to furnish you with them.

# And these (ahl al-bayt) are the one you are commanded to send salawat upon. That's why Imam al-Bukhari used the "alaihim salam" for Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain, and Ali ibn Hussain.

Mr Newnas you are invited.

[size=14pt]Angel visit Bibi Fatima And also covered, the Mushaf of Fatima [/size]
# Hadith 1: Kitab al-Kafi (Beirut edition, volume 1, p. 142, # 2; Tehran edition, volume 1, p. 240, # 2):

A number of our companions – Aḥmad b. Muḥammad – ‘Umar b. ‘Abd al-‘Azīz – Ḥammād b. ‘Uthmān:

I heard Abū ‘Abd Allāh, peace be upon him, saying: “The atheists will appear in the year 128 H because I have found it in the Book of Fāṭimah, peace be upon her.”

I said: “What is the Book of Fāṭimah?” He said: “When Allah, the Most High, took His Prophet, peace be upon him and his family, his death caused such a degree of grief to Fāṭimah, peace be upon her, that only Allāh, the Most Holy, the Most High, knows of its extent. Allāh then sent an angel to her to offer solace and speak to her. She complained about it to Amīr al-Mūminīn (Ali), peace be upon him, and he said: ‘Whenever you sense that, and you hear the voice, inform me.’ So, she informed him of it, and Amīr al-Mūminīn, peace be upon him, then wrote down all that he heard, so much so that his notes took the shape of a whole book.” Then he said: “There is nothing in it of the ḥalāl and the ḥarām. But, in it is knowledge of what will happen.’”


This riwāyah is ḍa’īf (weak) according to ‘Allāmah al-Majlisī in his Mir’āt al-‘Uqūl, vol. 3, p. 56. His comment, however, is only about its sanad. We, on our part, do believe that its matn (content) is ṣaḥīḥ, since it is corroborated.


# Hadith 2: Kitab al-Kafi (Beirut edition, volume 1, p. 142-143, # 5; Tehran edition, volume 1, p. 241, # 5):

Muḥammad b. Yaḥyā – Aḥmad b. Muḥammad – Ibn Maḥbūb – Ibn Riāb – Abū ‘Ubaydah:

One of our companions asked Abū ‘Abd Allāh about the Jafr. So, he said: “It is the skin of a bull which is full of knowledge.”

He said to him, “What of the Jāmi’ah?” He said, “It is a parchment that is seventy yards long with the width of a hide like that of the leg of a huge camel. It contains all that people may need. There is no case for which there is not a rule in it. In it there is the law even to settle the compensation for a scratch caused to a person.”

He (i.e. the man) said, “What of the Book of Fāṭimah?” He kept quiet for a long time. Then he said, “You ask about what you really need and what you do not need. Verily, Fāṭimah lived for seventy-five days after the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him and his family. She was severely depressed because of the death of her father. Jibrīl, peace be upon him, used to come to provide her solace and condolence due to the death of her father. Jibrīl used to comfort her soul, and also used to inform her about her father, his place, of the future events and about what would happen to her descendants. ‘Alī, peace be upon him, used to write them down. And this is the Book of Fāṭimah, peace be upon her.’”


This is ṣaḥīḥ according to al-Majlisī in Mir-āt al-‘Uqūl, vol. 3, p. 59.

Angels visitations to non-prophets?!
The fact an angel speaks to someone does not automatically mean it is bringing a new scriptural waḥy. Waḥy is of two types.

* The first is the scriptural waḥy, which brings new Sharī’ah or a new divine book. The Qur’ān (4:163) has mentioned it:

"We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nūḥ and the Prophets who came after him. And We revealed to Ibrāhīm and Ismā´īl and Isḥāq and Ya´qūb and the Tribes, and ´Īsā and Ayyūb and Yūnus and Hārūn and Sulaymān. And We gave Dāwūd the Zabūr."

This type of waḥy ended with the death of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family.

* The second type of waḥy – the non-scriptural waḥy - has nothing to do with any new Sharī’ah or scripture. For instance, Allāh says (5:111):

And when I revealed to the disciples: “Believe in Me and My Messenger!” They said: “We believe, and bear witness that we are (Muslims) submitted exclusively to Him.”


1. Allāh sent waḥy to the disciples of Prophet Īsā, peace be upon him, even though they were not prophets. The waḥy, of course, was not related to the revelation of any new Sharī’ah or any new divine book. It must be added, however, that this second type of waḥy is received by both prophets and non-prophets alike. An example of it, for a prophet, is in this verse (7:117):

'We revealed to Mūsā: “Throw down your staff!” and behold! It swallowed up their false devices.'

2. The mother of Prophet Mūsā, peace be upon them both, who was NOT a prophet, also received this second type of waḥy (28:7):

'We revealed to Mūsā’s mother, “Suckle him and then when you fear for him cast him into the sea. Do not fear or grieve; We will return him to you and make him one of the Messengers.”


3. Maryam, peace be upon her, the mother of Prophet ‘Īsā, peace be upon him, received this second type of waḥy as well, and she was not a prophet either (3:42):

And when the angels said, “O Maryam, Allāh has chosen you and purified you. He has chosen you over all other women.”

And, Jibrīl came to her too (19:17):

"And she veiled herself from them. Then We sent Our Rūḥ to her and it took on for her the form of a handsome, well-built man."


And the fact that this second type of waḥy has not ceased is in this āyah (41:30-31):

The angels descend on those who say, “Our Lord is Allah,” and then go straight: “Do not fear and do not grieve but rejoice in the Garden you have been promised. We are your protectors in the life of this world and the Next World. You will have there all that your selves could wish for. You will have there everything you demand.”

# Today in Islamic history marks the martyrdom of Hazrat Fatima bint Muhammad, the leader of women of paradise.

* Peace and blessings be upon her.

AlBaqir:
# Today in Islamic history marks the martyrdom of Hazrat Fatima bint Muhammad, the leader of women of paradise.

* Peace and blessings be upon her.

As tonight mark her shahadat, we remember the beloved daughter of Rusulullah, the best of all women and the doyen of women of paradise, Hazrat Fatima az-Zahra (alayha afdhal salat wa salam)

AlBaqir:


As tonight mark her shahadat, we remember the beloved daughter of Rusulullah, the best of all women and the pdoyen of women of paradise, Hazrat Fatima az-Zahra (alayha afdhal salat wa salam)

Salaam alaa sayyidah Faatimah alayhassalaam.

Anyone who has been following OP's thread will have know he is simply a Shi'a!

Twist texts.

Elevate 'Ali and his family and degrade/curse Aa'ish, Abu-Bakr, Umar, Uthman....

Find errors in Sunni Saheeh Books.

Carry Iran for head and denigrate Saudi Arabia.

Anyways!
Fatimah, Aa'ish and a host of other pious women are Muslimah's role model!
The Prophet's wives are Mothers of the believers!
Fatimah is one of the foremost Believers of our time!
Aa'ish is one of the wife of the Prophet of Allah!
So logically, i can say Aa'ish is the mother of Fatimah too!

The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their (believers') mothers (as regards respect and marriage). And blood relations among each other have closer personal ties in the Decree of Allah (regarding inheritance) than (the brotherhood of) the believers and the Muhajirun (emigrants from Makkah, etc.), except that you do kindness to those brothers (when the Prophet SAW joined them in brotherhood ties). This has been written in the (Allah's Book of Divine) Decrees (AlLauh AlMahfuz)."
Qur'an 33 vs 6

And finally i love them all.

AlBaqir:
# Today in Islamic history marks the martyrdom of Hazrat Fatima bint Muhammad, the leader of women of paradise.

* Peace and blessings be upon her.

Guy, allow Fatimah to rest in peace. Which kain wahala be this? Stop mourning a woman dead over 1000 years ago who is not even in your family tree. What is wrong with African people?

Laughing..

A kafir talking about Islam and her heros..


Laughing out loud ..


Shia talking about Islam is like a Jew talking about nabeey eesa