This is about the issues I have with Naija men. U probably have issues with them too. or are you a man with issues with the women? bring them here.

Many of these are not peculiar to the Muslims. They might in fact have more to do with our culture than religion or in other cases, religion than culture. let me also add that I am not generalising But talking of what I see in a large percentage of them.

lemme start -

The surname issue.

I wonder how many men and especially Yoruba men would allow their wives bear her father's name. It is even supposed to be a non-issue among Muslims since Islam is A WAY OF LIFE. In fact, this definition is most likely the one to prop up when anyone asks you what Islam is. How then hard is it for our brothers o to accept what Allah says in the following verse-

"Call them after their fathers. That is most just in the sight of Allah. . . (suratul Ahzab,33:5)

It is also apparent in the traditions of the prophet that women be called by their fathers' names. Aisha(the wife of the prophet) is known as Aisha, the daughter of Abu bakr. And hafsa as hafsa, the daughter of Umar. Also, Khadijah bnt khuwaylid.

How about living our lives the way of the prophet all the time and not only when it suits us??

Muslim men, any objection to the above??

^ I am not telling 

This your extensive research is getting interesting. Don't worry, I am working on genetically engineering 'your perfect man' in a Lab somewhere. He will be gift-wrapped and delivered to you on your 'X' birthday.     

maclatunji:

^ I am not telling 

This your extensive research is getting interesting. Don't worry, I am working on genetically engineering 'your perfect man' in a Lab somewhere. He will be gift-wrapped and delivered to you on your 'X' birthday.     

can you stay on topic please. very obviously, I didnt talk of a 'perfect man' and if you meant that as a joke, I wasn't joking either.

NB. I'd be too ready to ignore any illogical comment from you.

Now, thanks and God bless

deols:

can you stay on topic please. very obviously, I didnt talk of a 'perfect man' and if you meant that as a joke, I wasn't joking either.

NB. I'd be too ready to ignore any illogical comment from you.

Now, thanks and God bless

Who defines logic for you? Try not to let me get to you, it is hate-in-reverse .

Okay, back to topic. You know that we live in a society that is not fully integrated with Islam. Hence, my wife not bearing my name would not be a problem for me but to her- she would have to explain to my relatives and the society at large why she is not bearing my name. Personally, I have no problem with Mrs. Maclatunji deciding she wants to keep her father's name.

I think the sensible thing to do is to adopt a compound name Mrs. Myfathersdaughter-Maclatunji would be the best for her I believe. she wouldn't have to answer awkward questions from the society. Barka Jumat!

Personally, I would insist that my wife keeps her fathers name:: That is more Just!!

@Deols; Most nigerian muslims I know, yorubas included [i am a yoruba man] have their wives bear the names of their fathers. My wife bears her father's name. she wanted to make her last name compound though; solely her choice. Her money is hers. And almost all the men I know do house chores, too.

Deols; are you ready for such a husband who will let you bear your father's name and let you keep all your gains and get involve in house chores? I have eligible bachelors, always around me. You may need to write to galadimalou At AOL dot com.

And women can make proposals, too. Khadijah [ra] did.

Deols & Maclatunji you remind me of tom and jerry

Sweetnecta:

Deols; are you ready for such a husband who will let you bear your father's name and let you keep all your gains and get involve in house chores? I have eligible bachelors, always around me. You may need to write to galadimalou At AOL dot com.

*cough* cough*

mukina2:

Deols & Maclatunji you remind me of tom and jerry

*cough* cough*

Mukyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, where have you been?

In my immediate society and group of friends, I haven't noticed deols observation of men not allowing ladies bear their father's name should they choose. Most Ladies i know make the choice themselves, keep the father's name, make it compound or change to husband's but in the end it was their choice.

^Actually, no sane woman should abandon her family name for any man's family name.

I will not look at a woman who insist that she must bear my family name without her's in it.
I prefer a woman who will bear her father's name. period.

maclatunji:

Who defines logic for you? Try not to let me get to you, it is hate-in-reverse  .

Okay, back to topic. You know that we live in a society that is not fully integrated with Islam. Hence, my wife not bearing my name would not be a problem for me but to her- [b]she would have to explain to my relatives and the society at large why she is not bearing my name. [/b]Personally, I have no problem with Mrs. Maclatunji deciding she wants to keep her father's name.

I think the sensible thing to do is to adopt a compound name Mrs. Myfathersdaughter-Maclatunji would be the best for her I believe. she wouldn't have to answer awkward questions from the society. Barka Jumat!

If that becomes a problem, I think there's something wrong. One of the roles of a man is to be the protector of his family. explaining things to your family should be your duty as regards the above IMO. The society shouldnt be a problem either. Who cares about what the society thinks anyway.

tbaba1234:

Personally, I would insist that my wife keeps her fathers name:: That is more Just!!

thanks brother. This isnt supposed to be difficult especially for pple who have a good understanding of Islam. But unfortunately, many people who are aware of this go ahead either because of ego or because they'r afraid of what pple might say or think, the thought that they are 'not man enough'.

Sweetnecta:

@Deols; Most nigerian muslims I know, yorubas included [i am a yoruba man] have their wives bear the names of their fathers. My wife bears her father's name. she wanted to make her last name compound though; solely her choice. Her money is hers. And almost all the men I know do house chores, too.

Deols; are you ready for such a husband who will let you bear your father's name and let you keep all your gains and get involve in house chores? I have eligible bachelors, always around me. You may need to write to galadimalou At AOL dot com.

And women can make proposals, too. Khadijah [ra] did.

Actually, I do know there are some Nigerian men who would allow it but not many of them, I believe. I hope some peeps would change their minds after reading this.

Yeah! am ready for such a husband. About the eligible bachelors, am an eligible spinster myself . So u know, theyve got to be some great deal of a man to  woo me . . lol.

I havent got the liver to make proposals o.  that would have been phenomenal

mukina2:

Deols & Maclatunji you remind me of tom and jerry

*cough* cough*

tom and jerry isnt that something pple enjoy. I think this, is nauseating and .

zeeleso:

In my immediate society and group of friends, I haven't noticed deols observation of men not allowing ladies bear their father's name should they choose. Most Ladies i know make the choice themselves, keep the father's name, make it compound or change to husband's but in the end it was their choice.

it seems you are hausa and yes, it isnt common among hausas. that is why I tried not to generalise.

Sweetnecta:

^Actually, no sane woman should abandon her family name for any man's family name.

I will not look at a woman who insist that she must bear my family name without her's in it.
I prefer a woman who will bear her father's name. period.

thank u sir.

ISSUE No2

this is common generally and more common among preachers(Imams and alfas).

they seem to emphasise the role of the woman in a marriage more than they do that of the man. You even hear some highly ridiculous, fake stories like that of a woman who put her legs under fire to cook for her husband as an example of a good woman. They dont talk much of the good man and when the husband isnt so endowed, the woman is to understand, whereas an erring wife should get a co-wife.

Of course, a woman takes the position of honor and her roles are very important.

But, what happens when she becomes the reason, almost all of the time when the marriage isnt working, when her child isnt doing well, etc is, It puts the men in a position where they think they can do no wrong and sometimes, the women in harms way. *I wish I can explain this better than this*

certain roles of the men, or emphasis on them being good to their wives I didnt hear until I started reading Islamic literatures. Examples of them-

*The Noble Qur'an 4:19

O ye who believe! ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness. .

*"The best of you are they who behave best to their wives."(hadith)

*:"The more civil and kind a Muslim is to his wife, the more perfect in faith he is."(hadith)

*"Among my followers the best of men are those who are best to their wives, and the best of women are those who are best to their husbands. To each of such women is set down a reward equivalent to the reward of a thousand martyrs. Among my followers, again, the best of women are those who assist their husbands in their work, and love them dearly for everything, save what is a transgression of Allah's laws."

*“The best of you are those who are best to their families.” (Tabarani, Sahih)

deols:

If that becomes a problem, I think there's something wrong. One of the roles of a man is to be the protector of his family. explaining things to your family should be your duty as regards the above IMO. The society shouldnt be a problem either. Who cares about what the society thinks anyway.

 

Sweetheart (No harm intended), you are living in LALALAND. I have said I don't have a problem with a woman keeping her Father's name. However, the way our society is setup, she would have to start explaining to her own Father and Mother why she does not want to keep my name because people have been brought up in that way to believe a woman must change to her husband's name.

Then, will I be everywhere she goes to start explaining to people that have known her since she was in diapers why she chooses to bear her father's name instead of mine when they start asking the question?

She may not be bothered but she is likely to find it 'nauseating and embarrassing' like you find my teasing you. After some time it gets to you, that is why most women go for the compound name.

So it is not about my abilities as a man, it is about the realities on the ground.

Note: I will almost certainly insist on my wife not dropping her father's name.

And sorry I make you want to puke sometimes, you get me in that mode when you start playing 'Miss Independent' and 'I am too serious'. It is also partly because of your 'big ego.'

What Mukina2 means is that we have Like/Hate/Like relationship which for all intent and purposes is true. MDSocks said the same thing eons ago and he was right.

Assalam alaykum deols, on the first issue, i don't think its a yoruba tradition, i think it crept into our society just like engagement during walimotu nikkah. A faithful muslim man wouldnt insist on changing of name, just as you said its encouraged in islam for the wife to keep her father's name. I believe its not haram for the wife to adopt the name of her husband. Perhaps its even the women that eagerly change their name to do nyanga se dem don marry
on the 2nd issue, most of the nikkah ceremony i have graced, the roles of both parties are always discussed. My own problem is with the process of getting the patner, most of the islamic organisations do a poor job in match making and providing adequate councelling for their members even after the nikkah.

^About making yanga about being married, they use changing of name to mark their territory. By changing their name to their husband's name, they are marking their territory and saying to other females- 'keep-off, he is mine.'

If they start-off with the ideal that deols has so well presented, some of their family, maybe mother, sister or friends will call them to the side and tell them: 'look, it is not a good thing that you have left out your husband's name O. How do you want other people to know you are his wife? Or do you want them (other women) to take your husband?'  It is then that most of the opinionated sisters will change their mind and add their husband's name to their fathers.

A lady may have high ideals when she is outside marriage but when she enters, she realises that it is a different ball game. This is partly the reason that scholars emphasize the duties of the wife- she is the one that is happier on her wedding day and could be the unhappier of the 2 if things go wrong.

As a lady, you shouldn't worry about that too much- just accept a man that does not need too many lectures from anyone to perform his duties.

sino:

Assalam alaykum deols, on the first issue, i don't think its a yoruba tradition, i think it crept into our society just like engagement during walimotu nikkah. A faithful muslim man wouldnt insist on changing of name, just as you said its encouraged in islam for the wife to keep her father's name. I believe its not haram for the wife to adopt the name of her husband. Perhaps its even the women that eagerly change their name to do nyanga se dem don marry
on the 2nd issue, most of the nikkah ceremony i have graced, the roles of both parties are always discussed. My own problem is with the process of getting the patner, most of the islamic organisations do a poor job in match making and providing adequate councelling for their members even after the nikkah.

I agree with you it is not a yoruba culture but a western one. It is not haram when Mrs is boldly written before it but this isnt done in all cases. for example the ECOWAS passport has no marital status on it. when a woman is called by other than her father's name, it is a direct disobedience to that statement of Allah, call them by the name of their fathers. the verse continues to say and if you dont know the names of their fathers, call them your brethren in the religion. which kind nyanga. .womwen usually have misplaced priorities. there's more to a marriage than the name

yes. the roles are discussed during the solemnization. But that of the women is always over emphasised. Apart from during the wedding ceremonies, there is little said of the roles of a man. the effect of that is what I have problems with. how many men see playing with their children as a religious duty. if pple never knew, we can @ least start mentioning them.

maclatunji:


And sorry I make you want to puke sometimes, you get me in that mode when you start playing 'Miss Independent' and 'I am too serious'. It is also partly because of your 'big ego.'

and why should that be your problem.

What Mukina2 means is that we have Like/Hate/Like relationship which for all intent and purposes is true. MDSocks said the same thing eons ago and he was right

.

you must have been in the la la land o . hate/like? u bn dreaming bros. no wonder u think my comments are directed at u sometimes. for all intent and purposes, get this- u are just a user name So I cant hate u . if i find a reasonable post by you, I can like it.

I avoid saying my mind sometimes, so i do what is on my location status. but now, I thnk u shld know that ur replies to my posts, ur too many words, ur whinings and rants,supposed 'tease' have always given me an impression of you as 'a sorry-excuse-for-a- man' (I just had to say it) eventually, I cldnt be bothered by them.

^You have a right to act and I have a right to react. That is what happens when human beings interact. (Rhyming this morning).

This user name wants to make you puke sometimes, so leave that ego tripping.

As for being a 'sorry excuse for a man', I doubt you would recognise a man if you saw one. Now, we are reading like Tom and Jerry again!

You need to develop a bigger sense of humour, I will give you this advice for free. Actually, it is you who is projecting most of the time but you cannot see that.

You bore me this morning with your attempt at firing back.

maclatunji:

^You have a right to act and I have a right to react. That is what happens when human beings interact. (Rhyming this morning).

This user name wants to make you puke sometimes, so leave that ego tripping.

As for being a 'sorry excuse for a man', I doubt you would recognise a man if you saw one. Now, we are reading like Tom and Jerry again!

You need to develop a bigger sense of humour, I will give you this advice for free. Actually, [b]it is you who is projecting most of the time[/b] but you cannot see that.

You bore me this morning with your attempt at firing back.

ok. we av heard you, or at least I have . can the derailment stop so People can put in meaningful comments to the main subject of discussion?

*clears throat:

* ignores Oga maclatunji and Madam deols:

on topic 2:

i. ) Muslim women need to start becoming scholars and dā‘ī too and learn about their deen, Some of the greatest scholars in our history were women. Abu bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) used to seek advice from Aisha (RA).

Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr was another female scholar of hadiths: the leading scholar at her time was also a female : Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah taught both men and female because she was considered the greatest and most knowledgeable in some of the classical texts in her time.  There are thousands of female scholars that litter Islamic history.

It looks like women are less interested in Islamic scholarship and because it is a male dominated field now. The men talk about what they feel comfortable with.

Na real wa oh, no be by force nah

Salaam Sis Deols

deols:

ok. we av heard you, or at least I have . can the derailment stop so People can put in meaningful comments to the main subject of discussion?

Very good, you are learning the trick. Now, go and have a cup of Ice Cream and have a nice day- LOL.

the very first thread where i see muslims having a good banter!   they are human afterall . . .

deols:

I avoid saying my mind sometimes, so i do what is on my location status. but now, I thnk u shld know that ur replies to my posts, ur too many words, ur whinings and rants,supposed 'tease' have always given me an impression of you as 'a sorry-excuse-for-a- man' (I just had to say it) eventually, I cldnt be bothered by them.

at least deols and i agree on one thing for once.  

deols:

ISSUE No2

this is common generally and more common among preachers(Imams and alfas).

they seem to emphasise the role of the woman in a marriage more than they do that of the man. You even hear some highly ridiculous, fake stories like that of a woman who put her legs under fire to cook for her husband as an example of a good woman. They dont talk much of the good man and when the husband isnt so endowed, the woman is to understand, whereas an erring wife should get a co-wife.

this is not a muslim-only problem and is also a deep issue in christianity as well. Pastors spend all their time hammering on a woman submitting to her husband YET forget that the preceding verses did say a man should love his wife as himself FIRST before admonishing her to submit.

this makes me feel it is less a religious issue as much as it is a product of the patriarchal nature of our society.

tbaba12345:

*clears throat:

* ignores Oga maclatunji and Madam deols:

on topic 2:

i. ) Muslim women need to start becoming scholars and dā‘ī too and learn about their deen, Some of the greatest scholars in our history were women. Abu bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) used to seek advice from Aisha (RA).

Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr was another female scholar of hadiths: the leading scholar at her time was also a female : Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah taught both men and female because she was considered the greatest and most knowledgeable in some of the classical texts in her time.  There are thousands of female scholars that litter Islamic history.

It looks like women are less interested in Islamic scholarship and because it is a male dominated field now. The men talk about what they feel comfortable with.

I think you are missing OP's point there. It is true that many scholars keep-on talking about the role of the woman whilst barely speaking of that of the man. It is largely because most men want to enjoy the benefits of marriage without fulfilling their responsibilities. Honestly, I don't know how this negative trend can be checked, I can only suggest that women should not reward bad behaviour in men. So, if the man does not show good qualities, refuse to marry him until he changes or find somebody else altogether.

Many scholars around here aren't very good examples when it comes to marriage.

^^ my point is as long as the landscape is dominated by male scholars: that is what you will get:

The men will talk about what they are comfortable with and less about their responsibility. Many women do not even know the rights they have over their husbands.

I feel that the growth of women scholarship might help address the imbalance.