Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The problem here is that some people tend to be erroneously dogmatic. Unfortunately, in this case, it is some of those who support modern tithing.

One thing myself and Hndholder (as far as I can see) have maintained is that : we do not have a problem if an individual chooses to tithe; it is their personal choice. We also do not say they are missing any "blessings" from God even though we say the modern tithing teaching is biblically wrong. I think in holding that line, we have been fair and charitable enough. Our essential point is that if you seek to interpret the Bible accurately and in true Christian spirit, the conclusion is that tithing is, firstly, not compulsory and, secondly, not even necessary for a Christian. Again, I repeat we respect anyone's freedom to choose to do it.

If only similar respect can be shown by some of those who support the modern tithing and not casting aspersions that people may not be "born again" or "do not have the Spirit ..." etc

One particularly thing of interest to me is that none of the people who support the modern tithing teaching has been able to address the passage in Deuteronomy 14:22-28. Again it is quoted below for anyone who support modern tithing to harmonise with what is being taught today.

22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24[b] But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
28 “At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do[/b].

(NKJV)

Enigma may the lord bless you as you show understanding of his words

You see hypocrites are dangerous than evil doers

Well i am surpporting hopy2005
paying tithes is biblical according to the book ov amos chapter3

This is what u quoted...

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

...Do not leave those others (including tithing) undone.

otokx,

you most probably do not  understand the meaning of the word tithe...
It means one-tenth (ten persent).
So to say that Abraham did not pay tithe but gave 10% is tautology...because that is what the tithe is...10%, one-tenth.

And by the way, the old testament clearly defined it and defined its practice because they understood that as children of Abraham, they should live according to the faith of Abraham.in his steps.

........the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done.........


Love your neighbour as your self

@Donnie the word is tautology and not totology, feel free to pay any amount to the church in the name of tithe. The truth still remains, abraham gave a tenth part of the spoils of war (which were not his) to melchizedek as a gift. The remaining nine parts he distributed to the young men who went with him to battle. The bible never tells us that abraham gave another tenth part after that. By the way abraham gave a lot to the Lord even up to his son. Giving should not be tied to tithing. Give liberally

hhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa the day i got my freedom was the day i discovered that tithing has nothing to do with money. sadly we are talking about nigerian's 2nd god here "money".

tithing is about love and respect of God. money is a secondary matter. most people dont love God and neither respects Him so it becomes a pain and calculation thing when you ask them to give on god to a greater God.

to whom much is never enough. if u give some people a £1,000,000 they would rather go to hell than give up £100,000. they dont see how good God has been to them to love Him with their all and so God's best is almost always with held from them by default.

give God all He is due and see a life full of pleasure like u never dreamt.

it is not about money. it is about love and honour. money may bee your tithe tool your time, your marraige, your kids, your home may be your tithe tool.

i hope u dont serve a God that cant carry you too long

joshjosh:

hhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa the day i got my freedom was the day i discovered that tithing has nothing to do with money. sadly we are talking about nigerian's 2nd god here "money".

tithing is about love and respect of God. money is a secondary matter. most people don't love God and neither respects Him so it becomes a pain and calculation thing when you ask them to give on god to a greater God.



i hope u don't serve a God that can't carry you too long

Good talk , the truth made you free and you are are a free man

Don't let's turn this thing upside down. To pay tithe simply means to give God 10% of ur money.

It is 10% of all your increase.... increase of any kind ...money or material. Most people prefer to give a tithe of the money value of the increase they have recieved of other kinds (apart from money) since money is the most liquid measure of wealth and value we have today.

In bible days, a man's wealth was measured, in terms of cattle , oxen, lands, houses etc. the kind of money we have today ( bank notes) were not in use then.

So u give 10% of watever increase you recieve, cash or kind.

we are still saying the same thing.

Tithing is something that most people don't understand. most preachers emphasize the need to thithe because it is believed that the thither is doing his or herself good and not the church. it's a convenant between you and God and that is what makes the rest of your finance or income remain. It kinda acts like a covering for the rest of your income. noone should force anyone to pay thithe as the thither should fully understand the benefits of thithing and willingly agree to partake. It could be referred to as one of the rituals of christianity. it really doesn't cost much to give to Ceasar what is his and to God what is likewise his but we sometimes find it very hard to do.

True talk ...but no one is forcing anyone here. Afterall i do not think any of those opposing tithing in their opinions on this site worship in the same church as i do.

But i will always guard against anyone trying to insult the church or it's ministers and water down our faith in the name of theologising or intellectualism.

...but i love them all u know.

@Donnie, I love you with the love of Jesus who died for us all that we might be free.

Tithe is good to be paid,so as to continue receiving MORE,
blessings from GOD the giver of all the blessings.

God has spoken all this are blabbing.
He has set the conditions for receiving, so it's left for you to obey.
If you become poor and see me prospering please don't envy me oo.
And don't be that arm robber only to be trailing me.

The tithe is not  yours, it belongs to God. So you don't give   your tihe, you pay your tithe.   Then you can give whatever freewill offering you intend to give.

The truth is, i am glad that many have  already caught this revelation and are prospering by it. The devourer cannot touch them or their families or anything connected to them.

And these folks usually are the biggest givers when it comes to charity or or giving towards the propagation of the gospel. Keep  up the good work brother... you cn never loose!

to tithe of course.

lol, ppl are funny.

Thithing is a biblical command - yes - to the Israelites. It was done to support the priest class. The priests did not earn money doing any other work. Thithing was instituted as a financial support for them. The bible further goes to tell how much you should tithe. Typically, it is one out of ten (of some live stock that you have or grain that you grew). Further, the bible says that if in a certain year, a man did not raise X amount of crops or had X amount of livestock, HE DID NOT have to tithe. Further, there was a penalty for ANYONE who paid their tithe with cash!

Now, you must remember that the Levites were 1/12th of the Israelites - so it can be reasoned that a tithe of ten percent (for those who could pay it) was necessary. For us, who have very very very few pastors compared to the size of the congregation, we should not have to tithe as much. Further, some, heck, a lot, of churches pay their pastors a salary. That being the case, for those people, there should be very little reason to tithe at all.

Now, giving an offering to God as a thank you for his blessing - that too is not required. But, you try not showing thanks to someone who has blessed you with your life and see how far you get.

Tithing is a covenant principle of God for His people, Isrealites and non-Isrealites. Abraham tithed before the law commanded the Isrealites to do so. He did so as a man of faith in covenant with God almighty.

Allonym,

The pastor recieves tithes not because they are for Him to consume but because He is a representative or priest of  Christ to whom these tithes are actually paid.

They are not for personal use but for the Lord. Melchisadech recieved tithes from Abraham, not because He was a poor man seeking a means of survival but because he was a priest and representative of God.

Lastly. Paying tithes is a covenant principle of God for his people and not just a way of raising fund for the pastor or church as many believe. It is a faith principle.

I can agree with the part about Abraham - however, just because abraham did it, doesn't mean I should. Abraham also had a kid when he was very old - I don't have to do that too? Abraham was the father of many nations - I don't have to be father of many nations? Did Abraham pay a tithe? Or did he give an offering to God in thanks for everything God did for him?

Now, for the rest of what you said, where in the scripture does it say tithing is a is a faith principle or some covenant principle?

ALL Scripture referenced here is from the King James Version of the Bible.
(Gen. 14:18-20)

18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

From this, it would seem that Melchizedek is the one giving the tithes, NOT Abraham. But assuming that it is Abraham doing this tithing - what law says Abraham should tithe? Where is it established that Abraham tithes to show his commitment to God? How come we don't hear about Abraham tithing on a continual basis. This thing with Melchizedek is a one time tithe.

Anway, this is only a beginning. If you feel you have some scriptural basis for what you are saying, please, feel free to share it. I don't mind being proven wrong, however, if you are going to argue with me, I need more than just because I said so.

i travelled with a proffesional call girl one time. she knew every scripture in the book and was gladly showing me all her air miles and used tickets.

her school was that it doesn't matter what she does for a living as long as she tithed on it. i went to the church she invited me to and it looked afluent but i am sure if Jesus came in during that service about 99% would not have known Him. and o they had a very good choir and most ladies i saw where of her class if i call it that.

i did keep in touch with her for a while but obviously we couldnt remain friends for a long time because i dont subscribe to her any money at all cost beliefs.

i gather this is common now.

God said if i were hungry i wont tell u. God is not desperate for cash. He own the cattle on a thousand hill. tithe is not about money but about obedience and love for God. it is about trust. Jesus would say lovest thou me? feed my ........ HUNGER but the way some people preach this money thing u wiil almost believe the whole world would collapse without people tithing.

i tithe myself and i think about 65% of my church people do and i think all these debate about not tithing is basically stinginesss towards God and allowing other people to foot the bill of the kingdom while some come along on a cruise control.

it is all ook. we are still members of the greatest family. some families have theives and those who will be poor always.

i choose to be different.

What a sad story u just told. I hope you know if that was a church, Jesus was there. I also hope you met with him and didnt spend all ur time looking at the ladies.

Malachi 3

7 ¶ Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. In the whole of 66 books of Bible this is the only refrence


The Question is 'Are you a Christian'? If yes, then the Scriptures must be Obeyed; i.e. Old testament and New testament to the Letter. So, it's either you obey the Word or not. If you do, then you don't need to be preached to before you pay your Tithe and have no objection to it. If you don't pay Tithe, am sorry for you cos you're in living in disobedience, a Thief as you're stealing from God, and "You don't know what you're missing"

Ok, so, the Old Testament says I should not eat pork because it is unclean. Are you saying I should do that? The Old Testament says I should stone an adulterer. I should do that too?

Or, are you going to change what you just said?

Also, name one christian in the old testament. . . aaahh. . . .ummm. . NONE. Yep, no christians in the old testament.

So, according to you, if I am a Christian, the entire OLD testament, does not apply to me.

To tithe is right and biblical

enough talk, prove it