The Christian God is also The Creator of evil. According to Isaiah 45:7 the Lord that you go to church and worship every Sunday created evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

(Go and read it in your bible)

Maybe the people who commit those atrocities should accept responsibility rather than blaming it on God all the time?

Bastage:

Maybe the people who commit those atrocities should accept responsibility rather than blaming it on God all the time?

So who created evil??

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

Do you see that in Isaiah 45:7 your Christian"god" is telling you that he created evil. And you Christians are blaming every non-christians when your god created evil.

Horus:


Do you see that in Isaiah 45:7 your Christian"god" is telling you that he created evil. And you Christians are blaming every non-christians when your god created evil.

Nope. That's not my god, bobo.
That's the Jewish god of the OT.

Horus:

The Christian God is also The Creator of evil. According to Isaiah 45:7 the Lord that you go to church and worship every Sunday created evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".

(Go and read it in your bible)

Wrong.

 The word for evil in Hebrew "rah" can mean many things. Only the KJV translates the word to 'evil' in our english and its the only translation you conviniently used. Other translations use the more contextually appropriate word of 'disaster'.
 
I know you don't care to read it in context but here it means calamity, disaster or such as is demonstrated in the case of God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah and the plagues on Egypt and the great flood etc.
  God creates disasters not 'evil'.

JeSoul:

Nonsense.

  The word for evil in Hebrew "rah" can mean many things. Only the KJV translates the word to 'evil' in our english and its the only translation you conviniently used. Other translations use the more contextually appropriate word of 'disaster'.
 
I know you don't care to read it in context but here it means calamity, disaster or such as is demonstrated in the case of God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah and the plagues on Egypt and the great flood etc.
God creates disasters not 'evil'.

Dont blame me you should blame the one who translated your bible. Did I translated the bible?. If your pastor, preacher, teacher, minister, deacon or any other religious leader really cared, he would take time out to research the original language, rather than rely on poor translations.

JeSoul:

Wrong.

 The word for evil in Hebrew "rah" can mean many things. Only the KJV translates the word to 'evil' in our english and its the only translation you conviniently used. Other translations use the more contextually appropriate word of 'disaster'.
 
I know you don't care to read it in context but here it means calamity, disaster or such as is demonstrated in the case of God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah and the plagues on Egypt and the great flood etc.
  God creates disasters not 'evil'.

I'm trying to be a jackass here but aren't disasters evil?  No one exactly is pleased when an hurricane comes to town.

It's not to extreme to consider the Christian God the creator of evil considering how he brags of it's omnipotence and being the top dog.

Bastage:


Nope. That's not my god, bobo.
That's the Jewish god of the OT.

lol i smell the sarcasm here.

Evil,disaster,war,poverty,hunger,famines,disease,pain,suffering. . . . .and so on. All are the same and are created by your god.

hey fellow nairalanders! the conception that God is evil is as false as a false definition of God could be. the philosopher cum theologian, St. Anselm, described God as that greatest possible being who by his very essence cannot but be perfect, else something greater than he would exist. God is Love! the problems, vices and evil that exist in this world are not the creation of a God who is All-Good. we are free and moral beings, and our actions flow from this our freedom. as for the natural disasters, they result from disturbances in nature's order. lets think better!

gozie joe:

hey fellow nairalanders! the conception that God is evil is as false as a false definition of God could be. the philosopher cum theologian, St. Anselm, described God as that greatest possible being who by his very essence cannot but be perfect, else something greater than he would exist. God is Love! the problems, vices and evil that exist in this world are not the creation of a God who is All-Good. we are free and moral beings, and our actions flow from this our freedom. as for the natural disasters, they result from disturbances in nature's order. lets think better!

Who created evil?. And who allowed the existence of evil?. Religions teach you how to think from their point of view. That's one of the African's problems. We always had someone else's point of view. . . Once you begin to think with a liberated mind, free of beliefs and falsehood, no one will be able to feed you lies and garbage. You will have learned to question everything. So again who created evil?. And who allowed the existence of evil?.Can you answer this 2 questions?.

Horus:

Dont blame me you should blame the one who translated your bible. Did I translated the bible?. If your pastor, preacher, teacher, minister, deacon or any other religious leader really cared, he would take time out to research the original language, rather than rely on poor translations.

  Au contraire, while the translation may not be the best the problem is YOU reading it out of context and choosing to stretch and extend its meaning beyond what is suggested in the verse. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want, all they have to do is read & quote it out of context.

bawomolo:

I'm trying to be a jackass here but aren't disasters evil?  No one exactly is pleased when an hurricane comes to town.

It's not to extreme to consider the Christian God the creator of evil considering how he brags of it's omnipotence and being the top dog.

lol i smell the sarcasm here.

   You could certainly make the case for that from a human point of view. But I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) the "evil" Horus was attributing to the God of the bible is moreso in the moral sense.
  God didn't cause disasters in the bible becos He was bored or was eager to show off how powerful He was and how powerless we are to stop Him. We see God causing disasters in the OT as a means of punishment for the most heinous sins on record. I would think the rapists and murderers in Sodom and Gomorrah got just what they deserved.

God created the evil ones does not mean that he is evil. He gave every man a choice to choose between good and evil. Then he sent His son to die for those who choose evil but are regreting they did so.
Jesus did not die for the evil ones but made himself available for reconcilation with God  those who choose evil and now wanting to choose good.

God created the evil ones does not mean that he is evil. He gave every man a choice to choose between good and evil.

Doesn't God realize that humans are imperfect and would definitely mess up at some point? His whole paradise creation plan seems to have hit a glitch. Why not just abort it all?

We see God causing disasters in the OT as a means of punishment for the most heinous sins on record. I would think the rapists and murderers in Sodom and Gomorrah got just what they deserved.

That would mean evil is in the Arsenal of God. An Omnipotent/Omnipresent God should encompass the good the bad the everything.

Jesus did not die for the evil ones but made himself available for reconcilation with God t

something about this statement doesn't seem right.

bawomolo:

Doesn't God realize that humans are imperfect and would definitely mess up at some point? His whole paradise creation plan seems to have hit a glitch. Why not just abort it all?

  God knew beforehand that man would fall short of His ideal. The solution? Jesus Christ.

That would mean evil is in the Arsenal of God. An Omnipotent/Omnipresent God should encompass the good the bad the everything.

 No. That would mean your definition of evil is in the Arsenal of God.

As I pointed out look at the natural disasters God carried out in the OT. They are all meted out as punishment.  Is it evil for a judge to condemn a serial killer to death? For the courts to send to deathrow the soul who rapes and murders a child? In the same way it is not evil for God to punish those people as He saw fit for their atrocious transgressions.
You and others may not accept it by your earthly moral 'standards' but this is the biblical explanation and position for why God did those things.

BTW, read aksat's entire post and put the line you selected to quote back into context. Perhaps the phrasing is a little off but I believe he's basically saying Jesus died for all, but the 'evil' ones choose not to accept Him.

JeSoul:

  Au contraire, while the translation may not be the best the problem is YOU reading it out of context and choosing to stretch and extend its meaning beyond what is suggested in the verse. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want, all they have to do is read & quote it out of context.

Some sort of Vox populi, Vox Dei right? no wonder why God speaks in discordant tunes, he is only echoing the ideals of the people who claim his existence.

JeSoul:

    We see God causing disasters in the OT as a means of punishment for the most heinous sins on record. I would think the rapists and murderers in Sodom and Gomorrah got just what they deserved.

Are you implying that all the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah participated in those crimes? is god so much lacking in precision that American laser guided munitions are more accurate in identifying their targets? can it be that scientists have surpassed god in this regard?

or can it be that the olden day Jews wiped out perceived enemies with different cultures and religion (as they are still doing today) and then rewrote history to embolden their offsprings while striking terror into the hearts of the communities that surrounded them?

duduspace:

Some sort of Vox populi, Vox Dei right? no wonder why God speaks in discordant tunes, he is only echoing the ideals of the people who claim his existence.

Are you implying that all the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah participated in those crimes? is god so much lacking in precision that American laser guided munitions are more accurate in identifying their targets? can it be that scientists have surpassed god in this regard?

or can it be that the olden day Jews wiped out perceived enemies with different cultures and religion (as they are still doing today) and then rewrote history to embolden their offsprings while striking terror into the hearts of the communities that surrounded them?

Sarcasm thinly veiled as conversation/discussion. Sorry brotha, of such, I refuse to be a participant.

JeSoul:

Au contraire, while the translation may not be the best the problem is YOU reading it out of context and choosing to stretch and extend its meaning beyond what is suggested in the verse. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want, all they have to do is read & quote it out of context.

Yourself here agree that the translation may not be the best,so why you dont blame the one who translated the bible?,you never answered this question. And yes anyone can make the bible say anything they want, including You.

Sarcasm thinly veiled as conversation/discussion. Sorry brotha, of such, I refuse to be a participant.

Just say that you cant answer his question about your bible, or maybe your bible is just a sarcastic "book"?

duduspace:

Are you implying that all the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah participated in those crimes? is god so much lacking in precision that American laser guided munitions are more accurate in identifying their targets? can it be that scientists have surpassed god in this regard?

You are right, This "god" is lacking in precision, if Christian preachers claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today?, or did God fail to kill them?

Why do you call yourself Horus?

Was Horus not evil? After all, he was the fore-runner of Christ.

I dont know why we should even debate dogma. Dogma is totally blind to hat reason has to say and it dissolves your arguement before you've even thought of anything to say.

This is the same book that has talking donkeys for goodness sake. Its amazing when one girl here is talking about translations in Hebrew and rah rah rah. Do you think Israelis or Arabs care about what Africans have to say about their religion. Islam is for Arabs, Christianity/Judaism is for Israelis.

How can Africans go out of their way to embrace a religion and culture that has nothing to do with them and clearly doesnt respect them?

Blood_Shed:


This is the same book that has talking donkeys for goodness sake. Its amazing when one girl here is talking about translations in Hebrew and rah rah rah. Do you think Israelis or Arabs care about what Africans have to say about their religion. Islam is for Arabs, Christianity/Judaism is for Israelis.

How can Africans go out of their way to embrace a religion and culture that has nothing to do with them and clearly doesnt respect them?

The religious endoctrination is one of the reason WHY no one has been able to really unite the Africans in any considerable numbers, and also WHY the people of African descent have not been able to make real progress toward freedom and equality (liberation).

Horus:

Yourself here agree that the translation may not be the best,so why you dont blame the one who translated the bible?,you never answered this question. And yes anyone can make the bible say anything they want, including You.

I said the translation is not the best, doesn't that imply the translators could have done a better job? The fact still remains you chose to stretch and extend the verse beyond what is said[b] in context[/b].

Just say that you cant answer his question about your bible, or maybe your bible is just a sarcastic "book"?

Some of us don't have the time to waste on frivolous nonsense. I prefer to use my short time wisely in discourse with genuine people who though we may disagree still maintain intellectual honesty. That is sorely lacking in majority of the posts on this thread.

So if the discussants see it wise enough to drop the sarcasm and smarter-than-thou attitude, I will be more happy to engage.

JeSoul:


So if the discussants see it wise enough to drop the sarcasm and smarter-than-thou attitude, I will be more happy to engage.

Maybe you should also drop holier than thou attitude. It works both way, stop forcing religion down other people throat, this is why nigeria is poor.

Niga Lurva:

Maybe you should also drop holier than thou attitude. It works both way, stop forcing religion down other people throat, this is why nigeria is poor.

So Nigeria is poor becos people go to church and go to mosques? and choose to believe in the existence of a God?
this is why Nigeria is poor?

Be afraid . . . be very afraid . . . God is "evil" and He will burn all sinners in hell. 
This thread will stand against you on that day. Be very afraid.

What have we gained from religion except make pastors richer than they would have been. Why do you think every wants to start their church? Am sure you JeSoul has a church hence hiding the attrocities commited by church and mosque.

Niga Lurva:

What have we gained from religion except make pastors richer than they would have been. Why do you think every wants to start their church? Am sure you JeSoul has a church hence hiding the attrocities commited by church and mosque.

lol . . . No Jesoul does not have a church. But I do have a job where I have to work hard and smart to provide for myself and those around me that I am blessed to help.

I am against the charlatans who are parading as pastors and hate that they fleece a good chunk of the population. BUT theiving pastors are not even a tip off the iceberg of the root and cause of Nigeria's problems, so lets not give them more credit than they deserve.

The politics section is ripe with all kinds of issues that contribute to the decayed state of the nation.

JeSoul:

 God didn't cause disasters in the bible becos He was bored or was eager to show off how powerful He was and how powerless we are to stop Him. We see God causing disasters in the OT as a means of punishment for the most heinous sins on record. I would think the rapists and murderers in Sodom and Gomorrah got just what they deserved.

The same god told his chosen men to rape and murder others in the bible for no reason at all except that they were worshiping other gods. He even encouraged his chosen people to steal from other. why not tell his chosen men to preach to them? why tell his chosen men to burn their cities including innocent women and children as a burnt sacrifice unto him? is that not a heinous crime?

JeSoul:

 
As I pointed out look at the natural disasters God carried out in the OT. They are all meted out as punishment.  Is it evil for a judge to condemn a serial killer to death? For the courts to send to deathrow the soul who rapes and murders a child? In the same way it is not evil for God to punish those people as He saw fit for their atrocious transgressions.
You and others may not accept it by your earthly moral 'standards' but this is the biblical explanation and position for why God did those things.

When has killing innocent children become a punishment?  the punishment is not done only to the offender but to his family and his descendants in most of the bible. I am saying that killing innocent babies by dashing them upon rocks and ripping open the uteri of pregnant women is evil no matter when or why it happens.  If it is godly to those that say it is then so be it.  That just means that IF there is a god AND he did order such things to be done as it says in the bible, then god is evil.

Psalms 137: 8-9 "O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Hosea 13:16  Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

How can infants be wicked? Why is it that when God(and all the other Gods like Allah of the koran) do something, then morality doesn't matter any more? Why is it that when God ordered the murder of thousands upon thousands of babies and that thousands of fetuses be ripped our of tehir mothers' wombs, it was because the babies and fetuses had "wicked attitudes. Why is it that when God tells Men to cut off the hands of women that try to rescue their husband from their assailants, it is the woman that are always at fault? Why are we having this discussion when the bible god himself admit that he is evil?

"Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, to whom you sent me to offer your prayer: If you remain quietly in this land I will build you up, and not tear you down; I will plant you, not uproot you; for I regret the evil I have done you."(Jeremiah 42:9-10)

JeSoul:


I said the translation is not the best, doesn't that imply the translators could have done a better job? The fact still remains you chose to stretch and extend the verse beyond what is said[b] in context[/b].

I didnt changed the word evil and the verse, it is like it is in your bible,it is your own ego who decided that it was not in your context instead of dealind with the Fact that you still dont give us evidences and proofs that your "god" didnt create evil. And who allowed the existence of evil?

toneyb:

The same god told his chosen men to rape and murder others in the bible for no reason at all except that they were worshiping other gods. He even encouraged his chosen people to steal from other. why not tell his chosen men to preach to them? why tell his chosen men to burn their cities including innocent women and children as a burnt sacrifice unto him? is that not a heinous crime?

When has killing innocent children become a punishment?  the punishment is not done only to the offender but to his family and his descendants in most of the bible. I am saying that killing innocent babies by dashing them upon rocks and ripping open the uteri of pregnant women is evil no matter when or why it happens.  If it is godly to those that say it is then so be it.  That just means that IF there is a god AND he did order such things to be done as it says in the bible, then god is evil.

How can infants be wicked? Why is it that when God(and all the other Gods like Allah of the koran) do something, then morality doesn't matter any more? Why is it that when God ordered the murder of thousands upon thousands of babies and that thousands of fetuses be ripped our of tehir mothers' wombs, it was because the babies and fetuses had "wicked attitudes. Why is it that when God tells Men to cut off the hands of women that try to rescue their husband from their assailants, it is the woman that are always at fault? Why are we having this discussion when the bible god himself admit that he is evil?

  Once you've stripped yourself all your bias and prejudice against God and the bible and can be somewhat objective please re-ask the above questions and I am sure one of us christians will be glad do our best and answer.

Horus:

I didnt changed the word evil and the verse, it is like it is in your bible,it is your own ego who decided that it was not in your context instead of dealind with the Fact that you still dont give us evidences and proofs that your "god" didnt create evil. And who allowed the existence of evil?

  See the above.

@poster , Thunder wil strike you one day, remember Curse god and Die, i pity your soul