Trinitarians developed cold feet when you demand verses where Satan was directly mentioned 'as an angel in Bible, infact they wished it away or tell you that they are not interested,
The reason for the snub is simple; The logic behind juxtapose that arrive at satan allegedly to be an angel is (=) equal and same with that which arrive at 'jesus to be an Angel'

Nowhere, no bible verse ever was Satan mentioned 'as an angel in Bible' anyone with proof should put it here, pls dont juxtapose here, paste it directly.
Example of Trinitarians Evading this question are below

(1) https://www.nairaland.com/2669959/controversy-biblical-linking-arch-angel-michael

eVarn; Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction.

vooks:
You are digressing needlessly.

(2)https://www.nairaland.com/1491321/satan-default-angel-prove-it/2

johnw74:

I don't agree with you, and I'm not really too interisted in whether satan was an angel or not,
I know that he was.
but I do conceed that you know satan better than I.

we need a serious person with proofs here!

pls note; i am not a jehovahs witnesses

Satan was never an angel...he belongs to the left side of the family tree..Enki our father and creator belongs to the right side..Enlil AKA is satan, his son Ninazu is the devil and ninazu daughter inana is lucifer...this is history and not any religious ideology

sonmvayina:
Satan was never an angel...he belongs to the left side of the family tree..Enki our father and creator belongs to the right side..Enlil AKA is satan, his son Ninazu is the devil and ninazu daughter inana is lucifer...this is history and not any religious ideology

i cant laugh, ok i don hear you jare, thanks!

BERNIMOORE:
Trinitarians developed cold feet when you demand verses where Satan was directly mentioned 'as an angel in Bible, infact they wished it away or tell you that they are not interested,
The reason for the snub is simple; The logic behind juxtapose that arrive at satan allegedly to be an angel is (=) equal and same with that which arrive at 'jesus to be an Angel'

Nowhere, no bible verse ever was Satan mentioned 'as an angel in Bible' anyone with proof should put it here, pls dont juxtapose here, paste it directly.
Example of Trinitarians Evading this question are below

(1) https://www.nairaland.com/2669959/controversy-biblical-linking-arch-angel-michael

eVarn; Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction.


(2)https://www.nairaland.com/1491321/satan-default-angel-prove-it/2


we need a serious person with proofs here!

pls note; i am not a jehovahs witnesses

You need to try a more intelligent prop for your wobbly Arianism

vooks:


You need to try a more intelligent prop for your wobbly Arianism

Are you still afraid to show Where the bible mention directly that satan is himself an angel?

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:13,14,15

This passage ultimately refers to satan as a cherub, once in a class of the living creatures closest to the Throne of God:

Psalm 80:1
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel,
thou that leadest Joseph like a flock;
thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.

Scholar8200:
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:13,14,15

This passage ultimately refers to satan as a cherub, once in a class of the living creatures closest to the Throne of God:

Psalm 80:1
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel,
thou that leadest Joseph like a flock;
thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.

you will agree with me that Satan was not mentioned throughout the verses you quoted above, ''Thou hart'' or ''thou art'' was said to be an annoited cherub

Even though we have more than one Cherub in Eden garden then.
◄ Genesis 3:24 ►
''he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life''.

BERNIMOORE:


you will agree with me that Satan was not mentioned throughout the verses you quoted above, ''Thou hart'' or ''thou art'' was said to be an annoited cherub

Even though we have more than one Cherub in Eden garden then.
◄ Genesis 3:24 ►
''he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life''.

Indeed.

But the reference cannot be mistaken.

A similar passage is found in Isaiah 14:12-14
At least we know who it was in whom iniquity was found.

BERNIMOORE:
Are you still afraid to show Where the bible mention directly that satan is himself an angel?

I will share that as soon a s you can show me why Jesus is an angel contrary to Hebrews 1 which EXPRESSLY teaches that He ain't. But I don't expect much from blasphemers

Scholar8200:
Indeed.

But the reference cannot be mistaken.

A similar passage is found in Isaiah 14:12-14
At least we know who it was in whom iniquity was found.

Tradition attempts to fit Satan here....TRADITION and poor exegesis. The subject is clearly human

[b] Isaiah 14:4-13King James Version (KJV)

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:[/b]

vooks:

Tradition attempts to fit Satan here....TRADITION and poor exegesis. The subject is clearly human

No problem.

Scholar8200:
No problem.

There are tons of problems in Tradition and poor exegesis
Read the entire chapter especially from verse 4

vooks:

Tradition attempts to fit Satan here....TRADITION and poor exegesis. The subject is clearly human

[b] Isaiah 14:4-13King James Version (KJV)

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:[/b]

Why the mention of Lucifer in vs 12 and the obvious use of etherealities in vs 13?

BERNIMOORE:
Are you still afraid to show Where the bible mention directly that satan is himself an angel?

Can you show us where Satan was said to be created in the Bible?

If Satan was not a angel, wat was he?

And what makes u conclude God Word and Son was just a creation.

Scholar8200:
Why the mention of Lucifer in vs 12 and the obvious use of etherealities in vs 13?

1. Nowhere does scripture call Satan Lucifer
2. This is a TAUNT/proverb against a king

Please try and avoid reading your own biases into a text. Be humble enough to listen while the Word of God speaks. Cherry picking is no scholarship

V16 (KJV) They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying,
[size=18pt]Is this the man[/size] that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

vooks:

1. Nowhere does scripture call Satan Lucifer

Alright who is he then?

Scholar8200:
Alright who is he then?

Who is whom?

As you answer that, you need humility in admitting Isaiah is all about taunting Babylon and its King. Obtuseness and digression won't wash with me. At the very least scripturally rebut what I said

vooks:

Who is whom?

As you answer that, you need humility in admitting Isaiah is all about taunting Babylon and its King. Obtuseness and digression won't wash with me. At the very least scripturally rebut what I said

From your opinion / studies, educate us on the identity of Lucifer mentioned in Isaiah 14.

Scholar8200:
From your opinion / studies, educate us on the identity of Lucifer mentioned in Isaiah 14.

Verse 4 is your key. I have heard repetition does wonders in teaching/education so allow me to repaste the verse here;

Isaiah 14:4 (KJV)
That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say,

If you have trouble with KJV feel free to request any other version of your choice

vooks:

Verse 4 is your key. I have heard repetition does wonders in teaching/education so allow me to repaste the verse here;

Isaiah 14:4 (KJV)
That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say,

If you have trouble with KJV feel free to request any other version of your choice

Alright thanks; was that the name of the king of Babylon?

Scholar8200:
Alright thanks; was that the name of the king of Babylon?

I doubt it was. Next question?

vooks:

I doubt it was. Next question?

It's alright.

Scholar8200:
It's alright.

Question for you now.
Give me a single reason why you THINK, have been told,taught,assume Lucifer is Satan


PS
Try and stick to scriptures in your response.

Thanks

vooks:

Question for you now.
Give me a single reason why you THINK, have been told,taught,assume Lucifer is Satan


PS
Try and stick to scriptures in your response.

Thanks

First, Lucifer as used in Isaiah 14:12 means shining one

helel: a shining one
Original Word: הֵילֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: helel
Strong's concordance

Secondly the cause of satan's fall is not hidden:
1 Timothy 3:6
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He must not be a new Christian, or he might become arrogant like the devil and be condemned.

New American Standard 1977
and not a new convert, lest he become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.


Thirdly, a similar passage shows who the shining one was and what made him fall:
Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise
they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God:
and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty,
thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
I will cast thee to the ground,
Ezekiel 28:13-17

Here we see a created being(not born) who evidently was a shining one by reason of his being decked with all manner of precious stones and access to stones of fire etc falling into judgement because of Pride. Take particular notice of:
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God;

Because thine heart is lifted up,
and thou hast said, I am a God,
I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas;

While Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel were addressed to humans,

Fourthly, notice what will be the claim of he whose coming will be after the working of satan:
who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
2 Thessalonians 2:4

Now while Ezekiel appears to prophesy about the antichrist, we cannot say so because the personality in chapter 28 was perfect till iniquity was found in him. That applies to no man nor the antichrist who from the start will be the man of sin, son of perdition!

You dont need to agree with me but refute with scriptures.

P.S. Notice that in Scripture there are dual applications - proximate and ultimate. For example, Daniel's prophecies about the antichrist eg was fulfilled on Antiochus Epiphanes however, he was not the antichrist but was the proximate fulfilment; the ultimate fulfilment will be when the antichrist is revealed. So that both passages have human reference does not disqualify these applications as NO mortal can actually manifest those taunts literally. (he will need to be a spirit or one in the heavenlies).

Scholar8200:

First, Lucifer as used in Isaiah 14:12 means shining one

helel: a shining one
Original Word: הֵילֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: helel
Strong's concordance

How does this lesson in Hebrew prove anything? The subject is a King and last time I checked kings are masculine. This is horribly irrelevant part of a point unless am missing something

Secondly the cause of satan's fall is not hidden:
1 Timothy 3:6
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He must not be a new Christian, or he might become arrogant like the devil and be condemned.

New American Standard 1977
and not a new convert, lest he become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.

Bad logic. Satan was/is arrogant therefore an instance of arrogance must needs point to Satan. Any point that requires hopping across translations and versions is weak and pure semantics. I forgive you for being crafty

Thirdly, a similar passage shows who the shining one was and what made him fall:
Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise
they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God:
and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty,
thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
I will cast thee to the ground,
Ezekiel 28:13-17

See you can't help yourself but deliberately miss context to prop your theories. Why did you skip verses 1-12? I will paste them for you;
[b]Ezekiel 28:1-12 King James Version (KJV)
28 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. [/b]
Points;
1. The subject here is King of Tyre or Tyrus
2. Remember kings used to be deities and they demanded worship so claiming to be God is not exclusive to Satan. V9 is clear on this
3. The king is wiser than Daniel meaning the judgement is long after Satan has fallen. This is not a description of the fall of Satan
4. Note that strangers from nations would attack with swords, and kill the him saith the Lord.

Here we see a created being(not born)

Please, this is silly. How did you expect God to say He is sovereign over him. Did God create or born you?

who evidently was a shining one by reason of his being decked with all manner of precious stones and access to stones of fire etc falling into judgement because of Pride. Take particular notice of:
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God;

Because thine heart is lifted up,
and thou hast said, I am a God,
I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas;


While Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel were addressed to humans,

It is clear this light will be put off by men- v7. This means it is a metaphor or at the very least physical
Again men claiming to deity especially kings was the norm among pagans. We even have an incidence in Acts of a king receiving worship and being called God. Why was he slain? He received it, accepted it.

Fourthly, notice what will be the claim of he whose coming will be after the working of satan:
who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God

2 Thessalonians 2:4

Men/kings claimed to be God. Read Daniel and Nebchadnezzer

Now while Ezekiel appears to prophesy about the antichrist, we cannot say so because the personality in chapter 28 was perfect till iniquity was found in him. That applies to no man nor the antichrist who from the start will be the man of sin, son of perdition!

Nonsense. AntiChrist will claim to be God just like the innumerable kings claimed. That's all there is to it. The king of Tyrus started well, grew big and pride fell him.

You dont need to agree with me but refute with scriptures.

You should be preaching this to you every waking moment. You scattered from the multiple resurrection claims in another thread and I expect the same here when the heat is too much. Please elevate the Word above all traditions and nonsense you have heard. Ask God to teach you and have a teachable spirit.

P.S. Notice that in Scripture there are dual applications - proximate and ultimate. For example, Daniel's prophecies about the antichrist eg was fulfilled on Antiochus Epiphanes however, he was not the antichrist but was the proximate fulfilment; the ultimate fulfilment will be when the antichrist is revealed. So that both passages have human reference does not disqualify these applications as NO mortal can actually manifest those taunts literally. (he will need to be a spirit or one in the heavenlies).

This claim may have a ring of validity but not on Ezekiel 27 nor Isaiah 14 for these reasons;
1. When you apply some of the symbolic bits to Satan, you leave others hanging. For instance, how will men kill Satan? And how did Satan grow rich?
2. Subjectivity. This is why I detest 'dual application' where scriptures are silent. Anything can be FORCED to fit anywhere. The wisest approach is to be silent when scriptures are silent. Joseph Smith exploited 'dual application' theory to apply specific portions to himself and out of that was birthed Mormons. This is dangerous and will land many in hell.
3. Circular reasoning. You set out to demonstrate that Satan is Lucifer and the bulk of your 'evidence' is your own claim that Satan is lucifer.

Finally,
The reason 'no mortal can actually manifest those taunts literally' is because this is allegory or imagery at work. And this is not the only place scriptures ascribe some unnatural traits or attributes to men.