Chrisbenogor:

At first I thought it was a huge conspiracy to deceive people, then I screamed at the obscenities in the book. Right now I think its just plain weird, what do you think?

NOTHING!

Chrisbenogor:

At first I thought it was a huge conspiracy to deceive people, then I screamed at the obscenities in the book. Right now I think its just plain weird, what do you think?

JeSoul:

I think you need to think about why you think so much about a book you think is fiction.

Chrisbenogor:

At first I thought it was a huge conspiracy to deceive people, then I screamed at the obscenities in the book. Right now I think its just plain weird, what do you think?

Chrisbenogor:

Look around you, what is there not to be bothered about? Look how some peeps here turned out
As for the koran, its just plain stupid no beef

JeSoul:

Exactly[b] some[/b]. Are all schools now 'weird' because some students don't learn? are all hospitals 'weird' because not everyone will get well?

I think its a cop out. Those with negative persuations towards the bible/religion almost always focus on the religious bad eggs and use that as jusitification to massage their unfortunate religious aversion.

All the while turning a blind eye to the good that many many christians (catholics and protestants) do all around the world everyday.

Chrisbenogor:

@toneyb
I read somewhere about Love your Neighbour as yourself meant love the Jews as yourself, or thou shall not kill meaning- thou shall not kill the jews, you got any clues?

Numner 31 vs 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18[b]but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.[/b]

Chrisbenogor:

Jesoul,
True there are many people who do good that are Christians but that is not because they have rationally considered what they are doing they are just blindly following the bible to the letter

and even in the face of overwhelming evidence they still choose to follow the bible. Take the position of some resident biologists here on Nairaland, they would rather follow the position of what some men wrote thousands of years ago and all the while thinking that others who follow their own writings from thousands of years ago are gullible!
To them the book is always true and if its the evidence that contradicts it then the evidence must be thrown out.

JeSoul:



Besides if you knew what it meant to be a christian you'll understand that doubt is a false luxury we do not waste time on. So you're right even if all the science in the world proved tomorrow Noah's ark never existed, I'll still believe the biblical account - does this make me irrational? perhaps - but only to secular minds that have not been met & transformed with the power and grace of God on a personal and intimate level, and hence are unaware that the God of the bible is not bound to or limited by the laws of physics or biology or chemistry - He created them in the first place. He can choose to violate them whenever He pleases.

Besides if you knew what it meant to be a christian

toneyb:

"[Cognitive Dissonance Theory] has shown how individuals cannot easily dismiss a belief or attitude they hold, even when the attitude is directly contradicted by evidence or events. People will sooner adopt farfetched ideas to explain events than relinquish their preconceptions."

- Marc Galanter

bawomolo:

and what exactly does it mean to be a christian? a mormon, greek orthodox or a baptist etc?

The Bible is a book open to a wide range of interpretations.

The time in which the bible was written should be taken in context. We should expect a book that old to weird and well a bit archaic.

JeSoul:

A point that was never in dispute. Which is the problem we have today of every manner of sect and looney group using the bible as justification for their various twisted belief system.

Look all I'm saying is this, just because people have abused the bible and perverted its teachings to their own agendas doesn't automatically discredit the bible. I'll keep saying this, there are so many christians out there doing good, whose actions and behavior and lifestyle are undeniably righteous by all human standards, why focus on only the bad eggs and say "there, christianity is false"?

JeSoul:

  lol . . . I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Are you suggesting that all christians who follow the good teachings of the bible are simply misguided? Say it ain't so Chris.
    Overwhelming evidence? I have read/followed just about every science/religion thread on NL, and I am yet to be acquainted with this overwhelming evidence thou speakest of. As a matter of fact both sides usually leave with each side claiming victory. I'm not a biologist, but I'm an analytical chemist who comes in contact every day with scientists on both sides and I've seen its pointless to 'argue' these matters. Becos this weird bible Chris tells me that you & I will think very differently, foolish to you is life to me, life to you is foolish to me. This unshakable fact seems to escape way too many discussants on these boards.


  The way I see it, most times both sides of the aisle believe in something that neither can definitively prove nor disprove. And I'm okay with that. I've always said the gospel was meant to be preached, not proven - you choose to either believe it or not.

Besides if you knew what it meant to be a christian you'll understand that doubt is a false luxury we do not waste time on. So you're right even if all the science in the world proved tomorrow Noah's ark never existed, I'll still believe the biblical account - does this make me irrational? perhaps - but only to secular minds that have not been met & transformed with the power and grace of God on a personal and intimate level, and hence are unaware that the God of the bible is not bound to or limited by the laws of physics or biology or chemistry - He created them in the first place. He can choose to violate them whenever He pleases.

Chrisbenogor:

Is there any thread here on Nairaland where there is a victor? When the issues cannot be proven by scientific method like say "God will send fornicators to hell" we can aruge till dawn but when it comes to scientific issues such as "Did Jesus Christ have a father", "Was his mother a virgin at birth", raise lazarus from the dead, and so on we have a definitive answer which is a yes or no even if there is little surviving evidence.
Before I go on I should ask you if any our over zealous fundamentalists here have written a peer reviewed journal on why evolution is false and refer us to it, I see no reason in wasting time to show what over 98% pf the scientific community in the world believe to be true.

Let me try and drive this home to you as an analytical chemist, you tell me that a metal conducts electricity, a non metal does not conduct electricity, but then I scream foul play, how come silicon conducts electricity too, you say well for now you do not know but it seems it has a relationship with temperature and I scream lie lie lie the bible says all elements do not conduct electricity! I mean when were the noble gases named so and all elements grouped accordingly? or where was silicon first put on the periodic table? I hope you get the point. 

You are saying faced with such evidence you would throw the evidence away and pick the bible that all elements created by God must react and even when Argon does not you shrug and say well maybe Argon is not an element.

Deary, this is yet another reason why I think being religious is not for me at all and a purely irrational state of the mind, doubt is the catalyst behind many great things that have happened to man, without our doubting faculties we are nothing but robots programmed to do the bidding of the master (which sadly is the man who interprets the "word" to you) without asking questions as to why. Without doubt we hijack planes and slam them into the world trade center, without doubt we strap bombs to ourselves and blow innocent women and children, without doubt we would look at a verse in the bible that clearly shows babarism and no respect for women at all - genesis 19:5, judges 19:23 only a mind without doubt would read this and not be mad at the outright disregard for a woman as a human being!

Ok lets calm down now, I do not need to bible to tell me that people in the world see things differently, truth of the matter is nothing we see touch, feel, smell and hear are really very accurate  representations of what really is. The human brain runs a very sophisticated simulation software, our eyes for instance never give our brains a true picture of what is out there, the brain continously constructs an updated model updated by coded pulses and optical illusions should make that point very clear to you ( do a google search on the necker cube or a hollow mask and see what tricks your eyes can play on you ) same goes for our other senses. So my dear we all experience different things on different levels it does not make the experience any more spiritual.

JeSoul:

By all means, Mr Galanter is entitled to his theories.

JeSoul:

  You miss my point Chris. I get where you're going with the above scenario but the bottomline for a christian is this God is not bound to or limited by the laws of nature, physics, chemistry or biology. He can choose to break them whenever He wants as is narrated so many times in the OT - the crossing of the Red Sea, the plagues on Egypt, Daniel in the Lions den, the 3 Hebrew boys thrown into the furnace but didn't suffer a scratch etc . . .

JeSoul:

 
Now as for the OT, I'm wary of going into 'discussion' with you on it cos I've noticed it hits an intense emotional cord in you. But let me say this, every christian, has struggled immensely with many events God allowed and even commanded in the OT. And I will tell you now that several of them I have no good answer for. But what I've seen is that until we understand the complex nature of God, the fireceness of His love and wrath, we won't understand the things He did.

Chrisbenogor:

@Jesoul,
This is where I rest my case, your still the best, cheers.

Tudór:

@Jesoul
Oh please spare me the honorable debater charade!
There's nothing new you can say other than same old twisting the meaning of scriptures however it suits your point.
So i likewise pull a chris and rest my case. . . .

m_nwankwo:

The laws of Nature are the laws of God in material universes. By studying the laws of nature we start to gain understanding of the working of God in material universe and then undertand the works of God in non material universes. Thus the laws of God operating in material universes or Nature is the law of Nature. The laws of God operating in the spiritual universes is the spiritual laws. The laws of God operating in the divine worlds is the the divine laws. And the origin of these these laws of God is God himself. In other words, God is the living Law. But what actually does laws of Nature mean? The Laws of God simply are the intrinsic properties of all formed and unformed creations of God. Because these properties are intrinsic, they appear to us as laws because of their immutability and impossiblity to annual. In other words, their are really no laws in actual sense but intrinsic properties, potentialities and abilities. Thus for instance, if an object has an intrinsic property of physical mass, it will attract other objects. This inevitable attraction is what is designated as law of gravity. In reality the law of gravity simply puts into concept the inevitable attraction between objects due to the intrinsic property of mass. He who undertands how these intrinsic properties or nature of creations can adapt to them and achieve things which are regarded as miracles. Such a one will also know that certain things are impossible even for God because they negate the intrinsic property which God himself made. For instance it is impossible even for God to convert stone into a human body because the stione as it was originally made by God has no precursor or substance from which a human body can be derived. It is impossible to make a seed of corn to develope to a plantain tree because the intrinsic nature of the seed of corn has nothing in it from which plantain can develop. Thus it is impossible to change the intrinsic nature of creatures and creations. You can only change the forms. Thus a clay remains a clay and nothing can change it. But the clay can be moulded to a pot, a plate etc. Looking at a beautiful plate, it will be hard for many to see the clay that was moulded into the form plate. Only when a man can see the clay in the pot, the plate, the calabash etc has he taken a step forward in understandanding the laws of God.

JeSoul:


Toney & Tudor,
I'm tempted but I'll resist. I know neither of you fine fellas are really intrested in true discourse, but moreso just wish to air your greviances against all things religion. So I must pull a Chris on you and rest my case also .

Chrisgbenobor:

Look around you, what is there not to be bothered about? Look how some peeps here turned out  
As for the koran, its just plain stupid    no beef  

toneyb:

Please Jesoul don't pull a Chris on me.

JeSoul:

Sir, how have you been?
I always find your entries most colorfully intresting . Where I predict we'll have a handicap in discussing is that you do not subscribe to the bible as a reference - which makes my job virtually impossible. But I do find your above submission most intresting. May I ask how you reached such a position on the matter?