organicfoods:

In one of my write up here on Nairaland, I described how farmers can make organic calcium phosphate by harnessing acetic acids, lactic acids and ascorbic acids from certain fruits together roasted egg shell or bones. These are formulations I invented myself and the organic world are enjoying this to devastating effects on the farm both for crops and animals.

organicfoods:

The use of Epsom salt I recommended is for folia spray to help tomatoes access magnesium as a quick fix. for the organic farmers. It's a safe practice because Epsom is consumed by humans and has low toxicity. You can not compare this with urea that you cannot even handle safely with your bare hands.

organicfoods:

When organic alternatives for Epsom salts are available, trust me we will use it. The truth here is that we allow old habits to continue, we hardly believe change is possible. Yes it's possible. [s] The errors in inorganic farming is not only using chemicals incorrectly, it's using dangerous chemicals correctly for cheap commercial gains that degrades our health and compromises the safety of our society. [/s] Nobody is attacking conventional farmers , the major stake here is that this dangerous pastime of wreck less farming with chemicals is killing us, an alternative safer method must be sort and used efficiently, this is what we are working on. Organic is not perfect but it's fixing many of our problems.

organicfoods:

The reason is that the so called [s] urea and other chemical nutrients destroys soil microbes 'ecosystem' and leave the soil impotent. [/s] Many micro organism play several roles in nutrients up take and performance for the plants. When you comprise this by destroying with synthetic fertilizer, you end up having soil rich in nutrients that can't be used.

fluentinfor:
I am going to step out of your thread so we do not turn it to a debate. Organic promoters will always be same but I do not know why you always spoil or damage your competitors in order to prove your points.


Please, do not mention the word invention. You did not invent everything you have written as I took my time to quickly read most of your posts. Since you mentioned just Calcium Phosphate here, I will just prove it that you learned it somewhere. These organic techniques are already used in Asia many hundreds years ago. You invent absolutely nothing sir. I have used everything. Is it the so called Effective Microorganism that Shonghai Farms is promoting? We that know how they make it know it. I will bring it out in just one week. What is new there? And they make it like a top secret to farmers. But i like you. You are sharing them but do not make it look like they are your inventions. It is wrong. Is it one of the following:

Fish Amino Acid
Lactic Acid Bacteria
Water-Soluble Potassium
Water-Soluble Phosphoric Acid
Water-Soluble Calcium
Water-Soluble Calcium Phosphate
Brown Rice Vinegar and many many more (just to mention a few)

Which one is new and you can come out to say you invented? Which one we do not know how to prepare? Which one have we not used? They have been used in Japan for many hundred years. Which one is invention here?

Readers, kind read this article here:
http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/recipes/calphos/

Can you all read the comments are as far back as 2013? So, what do you exactly mean by saying you invented it? How? Where is your patent? When did you invent it? Over a hundred years ago?



The phrase quick fix is exactly how professional, responsible inorganic producers use urea and other fertilizers. There are doses. When you use the right dose, you will have no problem. And I will show you. Anyway, I appreciate the fact that you have stylishly accepted that Epsom Salt is inorganic.

You raised the point that Urea can barely be handled with bare hands. Interesting. But can you handle Calcium Carbonate and Potassium carbonate or hydroxide with bare hands for long? Is it safe? Now listen, if you put urea in the right quantity in fish tank, your fish will not die. So, it is about dose and I will have to correct you again. Fish farmers put fertilizer in ponds every time. Did that little quantity pollute the environment? Did that quantity kill the microbes in the ponds?

Sir, that you cannot handle urea with bare hands means you need to dilute it very well. It is poisonous in its concentrated stage. It is why it is easy for farmers to use fertilizers as they need to dilute it well. The only issue is that they must not use over dose.



Thank God you accepted here that Epsom Salt is not organic and I pray you do not only find alternatives to Epsom Salt but to all Bicarbonates and Carbonates you all use. And then, you all must stay away from so called deadly copper.

You have not just condemned but you have attacked inorganic farmers labelling them as conventional farmers but the truth is you use inorganic products too. You call your style 100% organic but it is not. So who is deceiving who? You say what you are not as organic farmers and then condemn inorganic.

You talked about using garlic and ginger. Of course, I use it too. However, they are less potent. Very very less potent. There are periods one will enjoy them but not when the disease on the plants are serious even when inorganic products cannot stop them.

You cannot still feed the whole world with organic farming. If I give you statistics of organic food produced yearly in the world, you will be surprised. That Ope Farm you showed, is he cultivating 100 hectares? What kind of large scale farming is that? Please, do not go there at all

Also, you shared a website of the other organic farm and I checked it.
http://www.thepictaram.club/instagram/tinwotorganicfarm

I just started laughing when I saw that the farm uses plastic mulch. Hahaahahhahahahha! Organic farmers are so funny ooooo. Why can he not get straw to cover 100 hectares? Lol! And he knows he needs mulch to sustain microbes in the soil. The farm uses plastic mulch made from chemicals which are toxic to our health. What about that?


Please, do not give false information. Organic people are fond of doing this. Like I told you, using the right dose is the key. Let me take you to this pdf paper attached below. Please, download it, read it, and digest it well.

Look at the screenshot.
S = Control without fertilizer
FYM = Soil + Farm Yard Manure
S + UP = Soil + Urea Phosphate
S + UP + FYM = Soil + Urea Phosphate + Farm Yard Manure

Result= soil + Urea Phosphate + Farm Yard Manure has the highest microbes on day 7 and 90.

Conclusion: amend your soil with compost/dried manure every time you prepare your beds. To get more yield, add Urea, NPK, BiCarbonates, Carbonates using the correct dose based on soil test. Then, use plastic mulch and your yield will be extremely high.

Who says Urea kill microbes? Who says potassium Carbonate or hydroxides or Calcium hydroxides kill microbes? Ask the aquaponics guy. He is going to tell you that it is a big lie. Microbes love them when used in the right dose. The worms in aquaponics love them and they grow very big. Microbes even get activated in millions and they quickly convert fish waste ammonia from nitrite to nitrates.

When next you hear an organic farmer say inorganic kills, tell him NO. Tell him that he should advocate for proper training of inorganic farmers. Microbes die because there is no mulch. Let me prove it. Worms live in covered, dark area. No matter the amount of manure used, immediately you expose it to sun, microbes and worms start dying. But try to mulch your farm, give them little urea and npk, add manure, use fish water waste and you see super high yield. Super, hyper high yield. Microbes live in dark, cool places.

Tell all of them I say so. I am confident of what I have written here and I can defend it anywhere, anyday.

Lastly, i am getting out of this thread so that it does not turn to arguement.

Blessings

FarmTech:
wrt health, organic farming is king. Bad effect of inorganic farming range from cancer, birth defects, infertility etc. A woman giving birth to an abnormal child is a case of birth defect which certain chemicals can cause.
.
But the problem with we African farmers is that while applying these chemicals, we don't take safety precautions. I have seen an illiterate farmer boosting that he survived herbicide sprays in his eyes. I saw another using his bare hand to mix a toxic insecticides. Some farmers dont even observe reentry interval and preharvest interval. Lack of safety precautions like these only lead to bad things.
.
I am also guilty of some of these misuse of chemicals but after reading about the dangers involve, I have vowed to obey safety laws. I love organic farming but the truth is that our people are not ready to pay for it. Organic produce are not cheap. Until we find a way to make it. cheap, I'll stick to that sweet spot between organic. and inorganic farming. I call it Orginorga.

fluentinfor:


Sorry brother, I know you are not the OP but this post is why I decided to make comment here again

There is no way you can achieve positive result without using manure or compost. Sir, the lane you are is where I am too and we are good with it. Why? Every farmer knows the benefits of organic matters. Even inorganic farmers recognise its need. Microbes feed on organic matters, ammonia and nitrites and they convert these to nitrates. Logically, they feed on urea and ammonia salts too and that is what OP has failed to recognise. So, farmers who do not use at least 30 tonnes of compost per hectare are terrible. When you use just one handful of manure per plant, you are wasting your time and destroying your soil as a farmer.

I didn't want to honour you with a reply, but when you started spewing gibberish as facts then I know you lost it totally, now you deserve one. Something obviously is troubling you about my progress here, you seem to be knowledgeable enough only for criticism without full education on the topic called organic. You contradict yourself a lot. Why do you need farm yard manure for Urea not to destroy your field. Common dude, you shouldn't waste your knowledge and energy here starting a debate you will always loss, you can open your own thread and teach people the correct way to use Urea with manure and how to handle and use dangerous chemicals on the farm, I think many conventional farmers will learn a lot from you. I advice you to stop wasting useful time here trying to fix what is not faulty.

Urea is just the same as urine. Even human urine can make plants grow excellently and it why people use rabbit urine. Excellent source of ammonia. The irritsting smell and harshness is what drive away pests. The same way urine burns is the way urea burns. If you use the right dose, the right way, you will not have problems at all.
[s]
In the paper i shared, I am sure OP is just bent on making baseless points. [/s][s]By the way let him expose bacilus to 36C Nigerian sun for 90 days and see what happens. It is not a rocket science, they will die and not a single one will remain so what is he talking about?[/s]

Obviously you demonstrated your all roud ignorance here, You know nothing about microbes and never assume a position of authority on this, UV resistant Bacillus subtilis will out live your condition of 90 days. Don't say what you don't know. I pardon you because you are knowledgeable enough for criticism and not for objectivity.

[s]I will move further just to tell this OP that not everyone is stupid.[/s]

Your link contradicts what you appear to stand for. Do you even read all, I am afraid you made no point with this article.
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ja.2010.102.110&org=11

[s]www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7758[/s]
This one leads nowhere, where you sleeping or in a haste to be relevant here. See I read and make use of what I positively, and also share my results with many to explore, I don't copy miserable links like this to belittle others.

These links do not support 100% inorganic urea increaes microbes. You will see the positive and negative sides. Do not just see one point and jump to conclusion; rather, think deeply with the materials. I deliberately chose balanced links and papers.

If you really want to know that urea promotes microbes, use fertigation and inject urea daily with very small dose. I mean very small and come see the difference. Do not use side dressing, use fertigation

You appear to be good in this, why can't stick to it, or better still show how many others can benefits benefit, why waste your time been pained over my progress

[s]Please read those links. If possible download the pdf file there. OP does not know what he is talking about by saying urea kills microbes seriously. If you read the links, you will see it is very safe to use manure + urea + NPK. [/s]

Why are you using manure, have you ever trained anyone with this methods, or you just pull this out to discredit me, we are talking of Urea and here you are adding manure to it, this is a fruitless effort...besides the manure can be used alone with excellent results has provided by your article, why do you need urea? papers are just papers until you use it on the field and prove it...this is what I have been doing with whatever I found fascinating about organic. You have proved nothing until you can replicate it yourself with excellent result. I score 0 over 100 for making references to other people work that you can easily provide evidence yourself, until then, it remains on paper. Yet you lost that again

Again, read this strong debate between organic and inorganic:
http://www.gardenmyths.com/does-fertilizer-kill-soil-bacteria/

The above link is a balanced debate but you will see traces of organic promoters dancing to inorganic tunes unconsciously. Of course, I prefer organic food too.

You are driven only by commercial purpose and not care. You want organic foods and you are promoting chemicals, are you ok? You kept contradicting yourself shamefully

[s]OP says he invented adding fruits to his so called concoction when all those fruits have been used. The person who has the patent lives in Japan and he is still alive till date. If you want me go down the lane of this arguement, this OP will not like it at all. Using fruits and herbs are called: Fermented Fruit Juice, and Fermented Fruit Herbs respectively. What kind of invention is this man talking about here? I see no invention at all. It is only people who do not know these things OP can make such claim to. So then, OP should go get the patent if he invented them. Since the date OP posted his so caled invention cannot be changed on nairaland, let him use it as a proof. OP, I challenge you, kindly register your patent. If OP needs fund to register it, let him post it here and I will campaign for him. If he cannot do this, please stay silent OP and do not come here to brag you invented anything. You invented absolutely nothing OP.
[/s]

I can see where your problems is...you are sorely pained. Well I have invented a system of brooding chicken from day old without heat using this invention that's throwing you off balance. Black people are with black brains, when they are half educated, they destroy their own, when they are not educated they feel cheated, and when the are educated they see others as their problem for no reason. You know all these about Fermented Fruit Juice and your so called fermented fruit Herbs and you haven't explore it, What are you waiting for? I have studied my traditional farming system ranging from South Korean organic farming system to Japanese and Chinese method, I have blended it with African roots and herbs to produce a unique product that can be used to brood chicken from day old without heat and you come here to spew trash. You can order my product and verify my claim instead of giving yourself heart attack over another man's progress... I know why you are like this, again you lost it.

I do not expect OP to still accept the fact that fertilizers are not evil but using them wrongly is evil.

[s]1. OP uses inorganic Epsom salt but he claims he uses small dose so it is ok. Lol.[/s]

When there is no suitable organic materials to achieve the desire results, inorganic can be used, we only don't depend on it. The organic aim is to make sure we have permissible level of certain chemical residue in the final product. You appear to be on a factory default, you hardly learn

[s]2. OP criticized the man using urea which is the same salt like Epsom he uses. The man tells him that small dose like Epsom is needed but he blindly continues arguing baselessly. Is it not funny? Those who kill microbes use over dose. Funny he disregarded the over dose theory but insisted that urea is evil because he wants to promote his so called "fake 100% organic" [/s]

Why use Urea and manure when manure will serve you, when combined with effective microbes you get better results. You have problem understanding the fact about organic because you are coming from a confused background. I don't blame you, let me simplify, where organic alternatives exist, the organic farmer will avoid using Urea and NPK. I think you should be able to understand it.

[s]3. OP has colleagues who use many evil salts. OP and his colleagues accepted Calcium Cabornate which is used by painters, calcium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, potassium carbonate, boron, etc in aquaponics, yet they criticized urea and NPK which are in the same category.[/s]

How can they be in the same category, we have food grade chemicals with varying concentration and industrial chemicals, You are mixing them up and messing up your claims...You know nothing about chemicals.
[s]4. OP and his colleagues turned blind eyes to usage of NPK and Urea in fish farming, yet they critized using it in crops.[/s]

I have never recommended Urea and NPK in fish farming. Please get your facts right. I don't know why you have to lie here, anyway this is what critics are good at.

[s]5. OP in his comments supported using [b] plastic mulch . Very funny he has forgotten that no matter how excellent it is made, chemicals residue which kill microbes will be left in the soil. Plastic mulch kills some mirobes because they leave residue. It is the plain truth.[/s][/b]

What are the residues that will kill microbes? You take half truth and in your mind assume it's the truth

[s]6. WHAT works for OP and his colleagues are good like mulch plastic, Epsom salt, bicarbonates etc. Tell OP to use natural materials like straw and fill 1,000 hectares with them. He has got no answer to this.[/s]

Nobody is in a competition with you, you see impossibilities, we see possibilities, when we are advance enough organically, we will show your lost how possible to farm without them, at least we don't use herbicides, pesticides and NPK, our chemical load is so low and we are providing better clean food for our society. This is enough satisfaction as a farmer and a scientist. You can continue with your chemical use, nobody is stopping you

[b]7. OP will not tell his readers that culturing bacteria and fungi in the name of making microbes can send farmers to hospital. And doctors will assist them by prescribing antibiotics they criticize. Tell OP to use ginger and garlic to fight those cases. [/b]
You are really pained bro...sorry, I can't help you

[b]AND MANY MORE.....Seriously, I hate this debate because organic people are very naive.

But guess what? They have assisted inorganic to improve tremendously. Gone are the days when plastic mulch is tagged evil because inorganic promoters had to come up with good chemicals. Gone are the days of saying only manure is good as inorganic has shown them Epsom Salts and other Bicarbonates are useful and not dangerous when used rightly.

Copper is deadlier than Mancozeb. Does OP not know? Yet, they accepted Copper and keep saying Mancozeb is evil. What kind of world are we in? Hyprocrites everwhere. Do you want me to give you research papers where copper is used for inorganic before you accept it? Why spoil what has produced food? Why spoil what has made even your so called organic easier? Why?

[s]Tell IP to stop parading 100% organic. Let him stop that nonsense. It is irritating and mischievious. I like him for sharing freely the secrets in organic farming but I got pissed off when he said he invented them. Seriously, I lost my respect at that point.[/s]
[/b]
I am Sorry you are not happy with my progress, I can't help you. I have never claimed 100% organic, but I am making progress to achieve it, You have no idea what I have invented, let me tell you again. Many are now brooding chicks from day old without using, heat, synthetic drugs, synthetic antibiotics and multivitamins, You have only invented hatred and animosity out of my work. Black man destroys their own

The only prayer I have for inorganic is that there should be better ways to handle pests. Pesticides kills. Fungicides kills too. I do not support it. It is why I also try to use neem or safe pesticides. I am trying to start rabbit rearing on my farms too. But during vegetative when there is no fruit, it is almost 100% safe (I learned never to use 100%) to use any kind of pesticide if used correctly. Like I said, it is purely errors in using chemicals that kills.

I wish you well, you are can concentrate more efforts on these things you mentioned, instead of coming to my thread to spew nonsense that bothers on pure hatred and perhaps jealous. I wish you well

If you still ask me today to choose between organic and inorganic. Seriously, I will choose organic. I want to eat it, I love it, I cherish it. It is safer for health, no doubt about it because the way they use chemical is what I tag responsible methods. But saying they are 100% organic is mischievious. And they should not criticise inorganic as evil but should identify chemicals they should ask government to ban or revise the laws guiding their usage. Inorganic is not 100% evil and organic is not 100% excellent.

This is where you should concentrate your efforts, you appear to know the truths but keen to drag yourself on a long thing about my progress. Nobody is claiming 100% organic, but we have made progress, not even when no certifying body has verified it, stop telling a lie I never told. This your energy can be channeled to help inorganic farmers to help handle chemicals, I am sure you will have some good followers

Good morning and Bye Bye to this thread


NOTE: This topic is a big debate which will never end soon. Many papers which show fertilizers destroy soil here and there AND many counter papers which proved otherwise. This is science, it will continue. And I have included links which might even look like shooting me at the legs. Really, my intention is not to surport inorganic that it is better than organic, but to show that inorganic is not as evil as we think. What beats my imagination is that organic farmers have accepted many chemicals too yet they will not tell their followers. This is a personal decision issue. Do you want to eat inorganic or you want to stay with only organic? Why is this farmer promoting organic and denting the image of the other farmer yet he is using chemicals too? This is what beats my imagination. I am out of this debate as I let readers make decisions for themselves.