malvisguy212:
The quran say some people ask question and loose their faith, who are this people ? What question did they ask ? Who did they ask question ? Allah or muhammed ? And why the right answer are not given to them ?

malvisguy212:
moses was a jews, a true prophet. Moses has NOTHING to do with allah or muhammed. Muhammed and Allah are one person.

BETATRON:
such questions which lead people toward atheism.....christians too ask such questions and have become atheist,,although some are very intelligent questions only lacking intelligent answers but a whole lot of dem are unintelligent questions putting on the clothes of intelligence.

ari3l:


A real christian never dumps his cause. Even with atheist here in China, many of them listen to Christians..tho not all the time.
And why would you want to become an atheist upon asking questions?

BETATRON:
such questions which lead people toward atheism.....christians too ask such questions and have become atheist,,although some are very intelligent questions only lacking intelligent answers but a whole lot of dem are unintelligent questions putting on the clothes of intelligence. Well the verse didn't say that does who asked the prophet the questions became faithless it only said those bEFORE them(their generation) have asked such questions and have a result lost their faith

BETATRON:
do atheists ask questions?

ari3l:


Even he cannot answer them.

malvisguy212:
we are talking about the two religious book, yes christian ask question and loose their faith, but the bible never discourage christian to ask question. But the quran imply that some people ask question which NO muslims could answer, and this people loose their faith.

ari3l:


Yes they do. Their belief is science, don't you think they ask questions to get to knowledge of science they got to? I know of one who believes in miracles and he followed us to fellowship once, he's Chinese.

Even witches ask questions. Those who worship zoroaster and even taoism (practiced here in china) ask questions. Now why wouldn't islam ask questions? Haven't you thought something is wrong?
Think well...

WORDWORLD:


I WILL ANSWER YOU MY DEAR. NAIRALAND IS NOT PUTTING FOOD ON MY TABLE. I GOT OTHER COMMITMENTS .

The beauty of the inter-net is tha everyone can have access to it. Hence the information being exchanged here is subjective to CHOICE. in the end everyone is responsible for their beliefs.

As to Jesus cursing the Pharasiess:

Matthew 12 : 34
Maththew 12 : 38

just to mention a few.

i got work to do. Kindly be patient.

23:13-33 The scribes and Pharisees were enemies to the gospel of Christ, and therefore to the salvation of the souls of men....

BETATRON:
first is an atheist belief isn't science,, second is the beauty of science is failing and trying new things,,but every1 feels the beauty and reward of religion is ultimate success

You don't get the point....there is no how you can so accept something without asking question and understanding it...the only possible means is to force people again and this kind of procedure doesn't last long...it would have stop immediately after the death of the tyrant

And we've listed a number of verses where islam welcomes dialogue but it seems you've turned a blind eye toward them

O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you

ari3l:


Free thinking = science, existence of no God, thats what a super atheist would say, that is exactly why I said it's science.

List the areas again I would like to see where islam welcome questions.

WORDWORLD:


Stating my terms clearly to you again. 'RELIGIOUS MIND' are mostly very rigid because of INDOCTRINATION.

I hope you will in the end be exceptional.

RELIGIOUS MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, ATHEIST, DEMOCRATS,.............FEMINISTS e.t.c mostly carry a blocked mind but full of double standard.

Always defending EVEN wrong doings if perpetuated by them. A confliction against JUSTICE that is supposely a corner stone of the DOCTRINES of all these religions.

The world system is run anyway on no more than DOUBLE STANDARD.

Hence, we are mostly HYPOCRITES.

Well, for all I care the human faculty of reasoning is not meant to be blocked by DOGMA but meant to process new information and making good, wise judgements about perceptions.

"Hence, I am a sincere TRUTH seeker and not into RIVALRY OF IDEALOGY nor the sport called ARGUMENT. All I care about is the 'TRUTH'".

I just quoted myself again as a reminder so that you don't repeat the same mistake as you have written your thoughts in words thinking its an argument about who wins or who loses when you said "SO TO YOU, YOU WON AN ARGUMENT"

Its no more than a discussion aimed at a reasonable conclusion.

If TRUELY it is answers that you seek.

I for one do not take pleasure in the sport called ARGUMENT and no TRUTH SEEKER does. What we enjoy doing is DECONSTRUCTING a concept and looking at it from all sides stating the TRUTH of what it is by SINCERE EXAMINATION for the sake of LOGIC, JUSTICE, RATIONALITY and SOLUTION.

"Why would Allah ask you not to question about your religion?" ari3l

That was your curiosity which was based on a faulty premise because you didn't quote the whole verse but a part and making it seem as if its all in all.

"O ye who BELIEVE! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you TROUBLE......."

That is like giving a limitation to INQUISITIVITY.............which things are these that may cause YOU trouble when asked.

Or, what will be the conclusion of anyone who reads that alone without reading the whole of it?

But the continuation of the verse stated that the BELIEVERS in Islam of course, to whom the verse was being addressed to directly and specially are not being restricted to asking INFACT any questions at all.

The verse continues with:

"But if ye ASK about things when the Quran is being revealed they will be made plain to you"


Which answers your question by itself. That it does not say questions should not be asked by the BELIEVERS about Islam at all.

And as regards freedom of speech that is a whole different topic likewise the confusion of mostly today's Muslim.

In truth the world is such a confussion and i dont not deny the fact that Muslims of today as so CONFUSE. What is a fallacy is that their confussion has its root in the Quran.

Muslims mostly do not obey the Quran in todays world the emulate ideologies other than the instructions given by the Quran.

Their disobedience to the Quran is infact the root of their confussion.

So, what is ISLAM all about anyway. Is it not the about what is being revealed which translates to the religion. Which "but if ye ask questions about things when the Quran is being revealed (ISLAM) they will be made plain to you"

So, whatever QUESTION infact anyone is interested in asking should be within the context of what has been revealed. REVEALATION has come to an end. That is what it is saying.

Hence, the Quran is so open to questioning. Which the Quran also states clearly:

"AND NO QUESTION DO THEY BRING TO THEE BUT WE HAVE REVEAL TO THEE THE TRUTH AND THE BEST EXPLANATION (thereof). Quran 25: 33.

And so, The same verse which you quoted as your premise ends with "Allah will forgive those: For Allah is oft-forgiving most forbearing"

So, even if a BELIEVER due to his or her HONEST CURIOSITY should ask a question that if made plain may cause him or her trouble, Allah says He is oft-forgiving most forebearing" to such a BELIEVER.

So, it doesn't restrict QUESTIONS to be asked by the adherent of Islam but the INTENTION with which the question is being asked is all that matters.

For example,

The respose which Mose whom Muslims call Anabi Musa, a believer in ONE GOD, as acclaimed in the TEN COMMANDMENT. A prophet and a messenger of God and to whom God spoke, did not get the same treatment as like the childern of Israel.

They asked the same Questions which if made plain may cause them trouble.

Mose asked if he could see God likewise the children of Israel asked the same.

These are the kind of question being ADVICE TO REFRAIN from so that on such an account you don't end up losing your faith.

"Some people before you did asked such questions, and on that account lost their faith" Quran 5: 102

Refering to every thoughtless questions. So Islam doesnt encourage thoughtlessness which the ILLUSION called freedom of speech promotes.

Mose didn't eventually lose his faith in God but the Children of Israel did. They kept asking silly questions to the point of losing their faith.

So, what ever your intention for asking this question ari3l may GOD ALMIGHTY pay you back in full measure.

Its really about not asking SILLY questions with dubious intentions. That is what the whole verse is about.

The verse is SPECIALLY addressed to the believers because they are not expected to be asking the same kind of questions like those who do not believe.

THE QURAN IS 100% OPEN TO QUESTIONING AND HAS READY MADE ANSWERS WITHIN IT. YOUR QUESTION MUST BE ABOUT WHAT HAS BEEN REVEALED.

I couldnt have read a book on farming and expect to question the authour about astronomy.

That is being thoughtless.

The judgement is that, that particular verse is addressed to believers who are expected to be thoughtful.

Its as simple as that.

Thank you.

malvisguy212:
moses was a jews, a true prophet. Moses has NOTHING to do with allah or muhammed. Muhammed and Allah are one person.

lexiconkabir:
op, this is the complete verse This is very simple, dont ask unnecessary questions on things not revealed, but you can ask after it has been revealed, whats ambigous about that? also you dont ask questions on something that has been made plain to you, whats difficult to get here? for instance, you are told that eating with the left hand is an act of shaytaan, yet you are asking "what if i have a big hambugger that i need my two hands for eating" such a mischievious question, what stops you from cutting the hambugger bit by bit before eating? or you've been told that alcohol has been totally prohibited, yet you ask "what if i use it for taking medications" what a useless question, how did you know it works? when they are many alternatives. so these are the kind of questions talked about, thank you!

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 92:

Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet was asked about things which he did not like, but when the questioners insisted, the Prophet got angry.

BETATRON:
existence in no God is the definition of science...science is but the study of nature and embracing it beauty,,atheism is synonymous to materialism...that the pledge to only belief in God if He materializes Him self...science didn't say there is no God but science doesn't bring God into the equation why would science discuss God science is based on empirical findings and God isn't subject to such laws..science states from the movement religion starts from the mover...science and religion can be infact complementary

1-Are those who have knowledge and those who have no knowledge alike? Only the men of understanding are mindful-- (Quran, 39:9)----how will you gain knowledge without asking and making research

2-My Lord! Enrich me with knowledge..” (Quran,
20:114)--- muslims are asked to say this lines

3-Read in the name of your Lord Who created. He
created man from a clot. Read and your Lord is Most Honorable, Who taught (to write) with the pen.
Taught man what he knew not-quran96:1-5-look how beautifully the koran emphasizes on reading and seeking knowledge

In fact the seeking of knowledge is so much cherished in islam that the prophet is narrated to have made as an obligatory duty for ever muslim

These should suffice

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 92:

Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet was asked about things which he did not like, but when the questioners insisted, the Prophet got angry.

ari3l:


Now this area



Now asides religion and it's facts, what else would they ask a prophet of a deity?
Why would he become angry that a question or two was asked?

ari3l:


Now this area



Now asides religion and it's facts, what else would they ask a prophet of a deity?
Why would he become angry that a question or two was asked?

ari3l:


Ok then read here



What exactly would make a prophet of a deity be angry at his followers? There wasn't a stupíd question the pharisees didn't ask Jesus, why did mohammed get angry at the questions concerning religion?

Annunaki:
I always marvel at some people's ability to make long meaningless and pointless posts.

lexiconkabir:
Too dense for you to understand?

Annunaki:

Yeah the post was too dense for me.

Annunaki:
I always marvel at some people's ability to make long meaningless and pointless posts.

WORDWORLD:
@ ari3l

Is it answers that you SINCERELY seek or all you care is to making JUDGEMENTS?

A lot of answers of which all are very UNIFORM and have been CHARITABLY given to you at God's Mercy.

So, if your goal is looking for answers you have had more than enough to make you UNDERSTAND "Quran 5:101 we need answers"

I didn't fail in my own judgement of your mind by characterising it as a RELIGIOUS MIND. It TRUTH, a religious mind is a mind of a FANATIC. And a FANATIC is one who RE-DOUBLES his or her ZEAL again and again long after he or she has lost sight of his or her goals.

FANATICS have uncritical and obsessive enthusiam for their BELIEFS and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions that shakes their position. The more untenable their position becomes, the hard the hold on all because they are mostly without KNOWLEDGE nor WISDOM but follow CONJECTURE.

So with all the answers provided to you, what you really care about is FREEDOM OF SPEECH. And with your HALF QUOTED verse which is out of context you keep JUDGING IT based on Sentiments because you RESENT MUSLIMS, ALLAH, MUHAMMAD, THE QURAN.

Freedom of speech!!!

Well humanity can never prosper with such a RELIGIOUSLY prejudice soul that is full of ARROGANCE and IGNORANCE.

Why did I say Arrogance?

All the answers given to you are not correct but yours which is based on your IGNORANCE for if not, you wouldn't have based your JUDGEMENT of Muslims in the first instance to being LIMITED to excersing the FREEDOM OF SPEECH by Quran 5:101.

You should have first of all look at your own BIBLE, flashing it with the TOUCH OF TRUTH so that what is already clear becomes clearer to you and enough for you adhere to the teachings of your own BELIEF.

"AND WHY DO YOU LOOK AT A SPECK IN YOUR BROTHER'S EYES, BUT DO NOT PERCEIVE THE PLANK IN YOUR OWN EYE?" Luke 6 : 41.

Kindly consider this next verse in the HOLY BIBLE and tell me what is your SINCERE JUDGEMENT. If not being allowed freedom of speech is what your half qouted Quran 5:101 interpretes to you about ISLAM. And if you at all possess a LUCID Mind that yearns after TRUTH and UNDERSTANDING.

"ANYONE WHO SPEAKS A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN, IS FORGIVEN HIM; BUT WHOEVER SPEAKS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT, IT WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, EITHER IN THIS WORLD OR IN THE AGE TO COME". Matthew 12: 32

If that is not a LIMITATION in freedom of speech what is it? So one can't ask for example SILLY QUESTIONS about the HOLY SPIRIT. You can't criticize the HOLY SPIRIT.........most of all you can't in the language of the verse I just quoted "SPEAK AGAINST the HOLY SPIRIT".

FREEDOM of Speech is FREEDOM of speech whether we should apply commonsense or not is what Quran 5:101 made a valid judgement about.

That don't be SILLY in the questions that you ask.

Which also ends as such in the Quran that Allah is oft-Forgiving Forbearing, if one should eventually exceed that apparent limitation.

Not so about the HOLY SPIRIT. "It will not be forgiven him either in this age or in the age to come" IF YOU SPEAK AGAINST IT.

Fallacies are committed intentionally to manipulated or persuade by deception while others are committed due to careless or ignorance.

ANY PREMISE BASED ON FALSEHOOD MUST ALWAYS HAVE A FALSE CONCLUSION.

Right from INCEPTION I had studied your premise which is a frequent accussation on the Quran by noise makers. I have obviously have destroyed your premise from the ground level before you even get a CHANCE of redefining your concept of freedom of speech to suiting your DOUBLE STANDARD.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH AND I SO MUCH PITY YOU.

Apply your premise based on freedom of speech to that verse about not speaking against the HOLY SPIRIT and let us watch you exhibit your FANATICAL MIND once again to our pity of your IGNORANCE.

A fanatic is one who CAN'T change his or her mind and won't change the subject.

Should you continue in you thoughtless wriggle will only establish the above statement FIRMLY.

My question is:

Is it justice if what applies to brother Musa shouldn't be applied to brother Moses?

"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother let me remove the speck that is in your eye' when you YOURSELF do not see the plank that is in your own eye? HYPOCRITE!!!

FIRST REMOVE THE PLANK FROM YOUR OWN EYES AND THEN YOU WILL SEE CLEARLY TO REMOVE THE SPECK THAT IS IN YOUR BROTHER'S EYE". Luke 6 : 42

You may as well consult the Holy Spirit to enquire why you are not free to SPEAK against it.

As for the bolded letters you once asked me to expanciate. I will honestly do that but not on your thread.

I can't be chasing you in circles while you are thinking you are moving forward running in around in CIRCLES.

I WILL OPEN MY THREAD FOR THE LUCID MINDS THAT WALK WITH HUMILITY ON THE STRAIGHT AND RIGHT PATH IN SEARCH OF TRUTH AND UNDERSTANDING.

Thank you for the exhibition of your mind.

ari3l:


I remember I said
"Don't fùcking write a long text", don't you get?
Now coming to what you wrote, if I may ask you, why do muslims feel that who ever asks questions about islam, tries to mock islam? The answer is simple islam is not doing what if suppose to, thats why you feel insulted at every slightest query thrown at you muslims, your write up is strictly full of hate, and you want me to believe all this bullshit you write!

You don't get it do you, I don't have any form of resentment for islam, the same questions I ask,is the same questions another person in his right senses would ask, and one question, would you go on giving him this crappy nonsense of hate as an explanation? Write not out of resentment, but out of freewill. It's a free world, and I have the right to speak, or you don't see it that way?

Now let me add, if your islam is free, explain as betatron explained,and forget it. And let me ask, do you preach in mosque? If yes, I'm really sorry for your congregation, hate cannot in anyway bring a listening ear to you.

You said nothing mind you, with this I place my judgement wrongly about islam. Get over with it.

WORDWORLD:


EYAH SORRY.

I thought you believe is freedom of expression. Why should i be subjective to writing short notes when its a free world.

My dear all that i have said and also what the parable of the speck and plank in eye is teaching the world is that CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

If you are commanded not to speak against the Holy Spirit.

Then, allow the Muslim too to obey the command of not asking silly questions as commanded by the Bible.

YOU DONT SEE IT THAT WAY ALL BECAUSE YOU ARE YET TO EVEN DISCOVER WHO YOU ARE.

Embrace sincerity, rationality, rigtheousness.Being religious is just being FANATICAL.
The beauty is that posterity have the opportunity of reading all these. I hope and pray that they see clearly without being SENTIMENTAL.

It was a good exhibition of your ignorance and arrogaance and not a quest for searching forr ANSWERS.

Annunaki:
I always marvel at some people's ability to make long meaningless and pointless posts.

ari3l:


I asked a question,you talking ignorance, it's enough, to hell with your stupíd talk. Never ever you talk on this thread again. I want to know things, lexiconkabir, betatron and others talked I kept quiet, you come here, rant crap and talk shit.

I don't have time to talk to people who don't know what they are doing, I asked a simple question,you were talking sensibly,why did u divert? Because someone called islam.. and your thinking... I said you need to see a doctor, you do need to. you talking rubbish on here, so full of hate. Go away!!!