₦airaland Forum

am waiting for south africans to dispute the facts about your military failures you've been bragging about. SA didn't fight the bush war alone. they had all the external supports and lost. then mike..za wants to tell me about "war" that he doesn't know the meaning.

[quote author=Mike..ZA]South Africa intervened when UNITA,was threatened by the Angolan advance south.[/quote]yeah you did and failed woefully. am not a novice on SA matters bob.

In Angola in the spring of 1988 the armed forces of apartheid South Africa and the US-backed mercenaries of Jonas Savimbi were defeated by the combined force of the Cuban military, the Angolan army, and the military units of the liberation movements of South Africa and Namibia. This led directly to the independence of Namibia and then to the fall of the apartheid regime in South Africa itself. Cuba’s heroic role is the outstanding example of principled anti-imperialist internationalism in the last decades of the twentieth century.
http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola

[quote author=Mike..ZA]And stop talking like Nigeria has ever been in any war.[/quote]from the way you sound, i doubt you know the meaning of war. go and learn first before talking trash

andrewza: burrindie and lestho were sa missions, though burrindie did turn in to a un mission

dude, you failed woefully in Lesotho. only a novice will think SANDF failures started from CAR

South Africans botch military intervention in Lesotho

At 6h30 South African Time on Tuesday, 22 September 1998, 600 troops backed by AFV's and APC's crossed the border into Lesotho in an armed intervention designed to quell the unrest in Maseru and the purported mutiny of junior officers in the Lesotho army.

They achieved the exact opposite. Moving in against fierce resistance, with poor information from their intelligence apparatus, they failed to secure their objectives timeously, and stood by while the Basotho basically looted and burnt down their own capital. The major causes of this failure were due to a lack of intelligence as to the situation on the ground, and the fact that they were understrength militarily for an operation of this nature.

I suspect that most of the South African casualties occurred in the first few hours as the South Africans waltzed in like some sort of colonial expedition, expecting the natives to see our "maxim guns" and run away. Wars don't happen like that. Something the South African general staff only realised to its dismay when it was too late. Not only was order not restored, but the South African army and the Botswana army stood by and watched Maseru go up in flames. I think it would be accurate to say that they failed to achieve all their objectives in this "splendid little war".

The intervention was authorised by the SADC apparently in line with some agreement with Lesotho in 1994, that the SADC could intervene to preserve the ruling regime, should it come under threat. Elections had been held in May 1998 and the ruling party had scored 79 out of the 80 seats. This caused an uproar with accusations from the opposition supported by the junior officers of the army, that the election had been rigged. A commission of enquiry was held with Judge Pius Langa as its head into these allegations. Langa is a South African judge. The report was ambiguous. On one hand it stated that there had been fraud. On the other hand it did not find that the election had been rigged.

After the report appeared, the opposition engaged in steady "unrest" against the government. Junior officers forced 15 of their seniors to resign. These senior officers fled to South Africa. Mandela and Mbeki were overseas, when Buthelezi, the Minister for Home Affairs, and head of the Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP), who was the acting President of South Africa, consulted them about an SADC intervention in Lesotho. They agreed to this, and on Tuesday morning the troop carriers rolled.

As things stand now, it appears that sporadic fighting continues between SADC and members of the Lesotho army. The South African intervention is enormously unpopular with the Basotho who regard it as an invasion by their big brother next door. South African journalists have been shot at and harassed, and if you are a South African, Lesotho is not the safest place to be at the moment.

The central business district (CBD) of Maseru has basically been cleaned out by looters and burnt to the ground. The equivalent of half of Lesotho's economy has been wiped out in one week, while the SADC troops stood by and watched. A considerable portion of those businesses destroyed were South African. Reuters reports that: "Lesotho does not have its own major retailers. South African companies are responsible for virtually all fresh food and produce, furniture and clothing sold in the country."

It is extremely doubtful whether the insurance companies will pay out for the damage. They will use the "war, riot, and insurrection" exclusion clause to escape liability. All of this means that South Africans will not be returning to Lesotho anytime soon. With half their economy gone, the Basotho will cross the border looking for work. Unemployed South Africans will not be too happy with this.

Joel's interpretation: The South African government has created an unbelievable mess. Not only have they failed to achieve their stated objectives to restore law and order, but they have failed to preserve South African interests by standing by while Maseru went up in flames, after a steady round of pillaging by its inhabitants. The inhabitants of Maseru have displayed a capacity for self-destructive behaviour which seems to be found throughout most of Africa rendering it the most wartorn and undeveloped continent in the world.

The naievity of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) and the Defence Ministry is truly astounding. They went in there assuming that they would be considered "peace-keepers" or that there would be very little resistance. In other words they planned this *military* operation as though the best outcome was a foregone conclusion. They did not realise that when one engages in military operations you hit the objectives with maximum force immediately to gain military dominance as quickly as possible. You assume the worst and hope for the best.

Therefore you do not attempt to effectively take over a country (which is what an armed intervention is) with a force of anything less than divisional strength. In addition you make sure that you gather the intelligence you need and plan the operation properly. You do not haphazardly gallop across the countryside, asking the locals for directions or how many entrances there are to the royal palace that you are about to assault !

The sheer stupidity and incompetence leaves me breatheless ! What also astounds me is that Mandela and Mbeki, and the foreign minister Nzo are overseas when South Africa engages in the first military operation of the ANC's tenure as government. This is a dereliction of duty and betrays an almost colonial attitude towards Lesotho. As though the Basotho are mere natives with spears, and bones through their noses who will cave into our little act of gunboat diplomacy !

If they had executed a proper military operation, the SANDF could have secured Maseru and the "strategic" hamlets within hours and prevented the destruction of Maseru. This would have enabled the SADC to gain space to sort Lesotho out. It would have been unpopular in Lesotho, but South African credibility would have remained intact, at least as a hegemonic power in the region. Instead we have a debacle
http://www.ecn.org/communitas/en/en121.html

andrewza: Then why have nigerians still been ambushed in sudan? And SANDF have gotten in to a number of fire fights in Sudan. Largest one had a covouy hit by auto cannons and rpgs 1 dead 3 wouned. The SA APC's survied the attack and made it out.

how many battalions do you have in sudan

agaugust: CraigBitch cannot generate any creative, informative, and educated comment/post on this thread

i thought i was the only person who noticed it.

agaugust: DRC has no peace yet. Sudan nigerian army was first to land in the north war in Dafur and we stopped the R.ape and G.enocide againt black sudanese by half-arabs sudanese. Nigerian soldiers were attacked at night, some died but we did not run away like south africa in CAR.

i know a soldier who was part of the company that was ambushed that night. the guy told me that was the day Sudan became fearful of Nigeria. said they defended their base against thousands of Sudanese backed militias and still held the base. that's bravery

but SANDF will always have excuse for their failures and will continue to fail until we retrain them.

Msauza: DRC, Burundi, Sudan, etc

dumbo.. direct military intervention. not some UN blue beret honeymoon trip.

Msauza: MR "SA is not on the list"

where has SA ever brought peace to in Africa? of course you can't be in the list of peace enforcers cos your military need to learn to fight first.

SANDF had to travel to train in Brazil just to fight rebels in a mission that's not theirs alone. shame

Msauza: The French are the true winners of Mali mission and the biggest losers are Nigerians.

do you even have the moral justification to talk about military and strategic failures? SA is the master of failure in both

Msauza: Zuma loves her ex wife who is the head of AU and would not take failures of Nigerian Army to spoil the AU's successes, hence he came with the plan.

you just dey yarn opata for here

NaijaPikinGidi:
Cause a provocation and see how Nigeria will swiftly get the party rocking! . We showed SA a snippet during your overzealous Yellow fever card provocation and you came apologizing on national and international television just as Zuma sent through to President Jonathan emissaries with a formal letter of apology and a promise to be of good behavior!

they know we don't bluff like them. if they knew we wouldn't why did they apologize after we threatened to cut ties and take their companies.

courtesy: www.beegeagle.

U.S NAVSCIATTS, NIGERIAN JSMTC COOPERATE ON TACTICAL RIVERINE OPERATIONS COURSE (JULY 13-SEPT 6) , 6 PATROL BOATS DELIVERED TO NIGERIA ; NIGERIAN NAVY SPECIAL BOAT SERVICE DESCRIBED AS “HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL, MATURE, TACTICALLY SKILLED AND RESTRAINED”

[img]http://beegeagle.files./2013/08/120731-n-eo971-193.jpeg[/img]
Senior-level officers from Nigeria and partner nations take part in a capabilities demonstration on an 11-meter long Naval Special Warfare Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat (RHIB) while attending a 2012 Strategic Level Small Craft Combating Terrorism Course at the Naval Small Craft Instruction and Technical Training School.

[img]http://beegeagle.files./2013/08/120223-n-eo971-012.jpeg[/img]
A student from Nigeria takes part in a communications training exercise while at Naval Small Craft Instruction and Technical Training School.

NaijaPikinGidi: Blockhead as usual!

the guy's a complete nutcase

Msauza: You cannot do that since foreign investment is protected by international law, hence your government can be sued billions of dollars for failure to deliver on their duties. Besides, Nigeria will stand the greatest challenge of economic decline and massive loss of employment.

The only area where Nigeria is failing is by allowing foreign investment to run without any local ownership, that was the biggest blunder ever done by any country. No wonder many investors are now running to Nigeria because they know that they stand to lose hardly anything to local businesses. In this regard, Nigeria will need to shift to Mugabe's indigenization policies of forcing foreign investments to relinquish 50% ownership to Zimbabweans. Immediate economic policy shift is needed in Nigeria or else they will be owned by foreigners at every cost.

this your blab is false. NNPC has a stake in all oil companies in Nigeria, most major companies are listed in stock stock market, we are working on a bill to force telecoms companies to be listed on stock market so we'll be owning MTN soon.

south africa didn't have a mining company till 2011 and you never had any stake in those mining companies cos recently your government proposed a bill to have stake in foreign owned mining companies, you were only collecting royalties.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-30/south-african-mining-law-won-t-deter-investment-government-says.html

Zimbabwe is under sanctions. that's why they are struggling. we have nationalized foreign companies(e.g BP, First Bank etc) and we are still moving with the companies expanding.

we can nationalize your companies and carry on and won't feel a pinch. but so far we like as your companies are making you jobless by exporting the jobs to Nigeria . after all no man is an island

NaijaPikinGidi: Young man ... You are wasting your breathe trying to impress yourself. What is the long and short of your story?

the guy wan test weda he get small sense. which he failed

CraigB: Just look at this one:

http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/features/south-africa-ripping-nigeria-off.html



I had the misfortune of walking through a South African owned shop in Lagos recently. Mr. Price to be precise. I had just returned from a trip to Johannesburg and looking for cheap gifts i had forgotten to pick up for my hangers on when i returned. There was a piece of sweat shirt I had made a mental note to purchase at Mr. Price and decided to get it at the Nigerian store.

This was a piece of item placed at their “priced to go” racks at N1,800 (R114.74) per piece. I have a long, retentive memory and i could still recall that this same piece of sweatshirt sells for N784.24 (R49.99) in South Africa. And if you factored in my 14% tax rebates, that sweat shirt did in fact come to me at N669.34 (R42.99). That’s some 269% increase over and above the marked prices inside South Africa.

This huge price differential is typical across board on most south african owned consumer products in Nigeria. From Shoprite to Chicken Republic to Massmart (Game), Mr. Price, Woolworth and Truworths. It is a tale of undue exploitation of Nigerians by South African Businesses.

Before i am crucified for being xenophobic, it is important to understand that the criticism of South African companies have persisted as a consequence of their approach to business in Nigeria, which has often been characterised as predatory and mercantilist. South Africa’s foreign policy towards Nigeria and indeed, towards all of Africa is not based on any Pan-Africanism or anti-imperialism; it is rather based on promoting South Africa’s expanding business interests on the continent.

It is an expansionist agenda that South African corporations and parastatals have successfully implemented in a one-sided hegemonic relationship. As echoed by Foluso Phillips, the chairman of Lagos-based Phillips Consulting, a business consultancy of branding advisors, “There is much that South Africa can offer Nigeria, but there has been a problem of attitude and lack of trust as well as divergent objectives by both parties,… however, there must be a strong spirit of win-win, as the track record and perception makes it all look one-sided in South Africa’s favour.”

Believe me, I am a fan of South African business in Nigeria. Rightly or wrongly, the economic boosts our country has experienced in various sectors of the economy, in particular, retail and telecommunication, through the interventions of South African businesses have helped to redefine the consumer experience here. They have brought healthy competitions and quality alternatives to other product offerings. They have been open about their desire to conquer the consumer market and have in turn created employment opportunities for thousands of Nigerians. They saw the potential of the middle income groups in Nigeria and positioned themselves to tap into it.

My grouse however, is that this competitive positioning cannot and should not be exploitative in nature, which is exactly what is happening today. It shouldn’t happen in a market of 170 million people in which, 40% of the population describe themselves as middle income earners.

This target group alone represent a market that’s still larger than the entire population of South Africa! Worse still, this should not be happening in a country that allows businesses to repatriate 100% of entire profits back to home. And it definitely shouldn’t be happening in a country that has massive disparities in incomes with it. Some comparative economic data will suffice here:

Nigeria South Africa
Population 170 million 52 million
Gross Domestic Product $268.7 billion $375.9 billion
GDP per Capita $1,657 $7,257
Exports (1st Quarter, 2012) $750 million $150 million

How does it happen that the earning power of the average south african is more than 4 times that of his Nigerian counterpart and yet, Nigerians are made to pay almost 3 times for the same quality of goods. The reality is, South African companies are making a dangerous killing in Nigeria and we are helpless to do anything about it. There is evidence that South African companies have been involved in blatant profiteering and looting in Nigeria.

For a very long time, MTN charges in Nigeria were the highest rates in the world for cellular phone calls. And despite its massive profits, MTN has really only created about 500 permanent jobs. Most of its employees are casual or temporary workers, and just like other South African corporations, denies all of its workers the right to join a trade union. Something that would be most unheard of in their own country.

And do not be deceived by the trade surplus in Nigeria’s favour. Of the 750 million dollars worth of Nigerian exports to South Africa reported in the first three months of 2012 by The South African Revenue Service, 740 million dollars worth are made up of mineral products, mainly oil. That means, other than oil, Nigeria have absolutely no stake in South Africa’s economy.

Compare that with MTN owning 52% of Nigeria’s mobile telecommunications market; franchises like Nandos, Chicken Republic and St. Elmos, etc owning 50% of the international fast food market worth US$2.5 million per annum; DSTV accounting for 90% of the viewers that watch satellite TV in Nigeria; SASOL playing major roles in Escravos with Chevron; and Entech and Broll managing prime estates and properties including the development of the Bar Beach (Eko Atlantic) and management of over 600 fuel stations and malls across Nigeria respectively. This can’t healthy.

There is a reason why such unequal trade relations exist between Nigeria and South Africa. The bilateral agreements signed by both governments since 1999 allows this to happen without hinderance to operations. South African companies’ investments in Nigeria are heavily protected from any interference at any level by the Nigerian government. It is a license to grow as they please without consequence. Added to this, there are substantial tax rebates for companies operating here through agreements on eradicating double taxation.

South African companies that paid tax in Nigeria are protected from paying taxes back home and can repatriate the entire profits. Now, imagine the US$5.3 billion MTN had earned after tax in the 10 years of operation from 2001 – 2011 finding its way back to the South African economy tax free! Why wouldn’t the Rand be stronger than the Naira at any level?

When the foundations of this country was laid in the fight against imperialism, it was not envisioned to have it substituted with another form of neo-colonialism. The activities of South African businesses in Nigeria have been abrasive to Nigerians and the Nigerian economy.

There is a siege mentality they have on this country that needs to be addressed. They have created opportunities not to develop the Nigerian economy but to exploit its resources. We experienced that with the British, endured it with the Chinese and now, it’s the South Africans that are our new colonialists. This is not the sort of relationship we should be aspiring to at this time. The sooner our government addresses these imbalances the better.


___

YOU ARE OWNED

Boring..old story

we can decide to nationalize them, kick you out and Nigerians will still have their jobs. you'll lose

further proof of you poor reading ability for not seeing "political influence" in my previous posts

CraigB: A metaphor of what, exactly?

You are all over the place, except where you need to be.

Here is your question:



So, in other words, you aren't able to name a single country in the world that can do what you expect South Africa to do.

So, in other words, this was a silly question? Why then do you continue to demand an answer?

Why have you wasted our Saturday discussing a nonstarter?

Oh, I know! You asked a question before engaging your brain. And now, it's backtracking time. Only, it's too late.

Trust a Naai-gerian to celebrate the fact that South Africa takes your money every single day, while you try to beg for a chance to be allowed to do business in South Africa

______

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-08-02-00-nigeria-seeks-sas-vehicle-expertise


Plans to set up automotive manufacturing plants could prove beneficial to both countries.

The trade and industry ministers of sub-Saharan Africa’s two superpowers are collaborating on the concept of the “Zagerian” car. Nigeria wants to set up its own motor industry — and it wants South Africa’s help.

South Africa has agreed to share insight on its automotive production and development plan. In return, it hopes to export its components to Nigeria for a preferential rate.

But major changes would need to take place before Nigeria’s motor manufacturing landscape in any way resembles that of South Africa’s.

In order to create a truly “Zagerian” manufacturing scene, the Nigerians will need to increase import tariffs significantly, see a massive increase in demand for new cars, and tackle a consumer preference for imported vehicles.

In the first quarter of this year, car sales in South Africa totalled 113 971. Every year, over 400 000 new cars are bought by its population of about 51-million people.

In comparison, Nigeria, with a population of more than 160-million, imports a total of 50 000 new cars every year. This makes up the bulk of the new-car market in the country.

There is only one local manufacturer and it has not made significant inroads into the market.

That means South Africa sells more than eight times the number of new cars Nigeria does, despite Nigeria having more than triple South Africa’s population.

Nigeria rose from being the 13th-biggest buyer of South African automotive exports in 2011 to the ninth-biggest buyer last year. It was South Africa’s second-biggest African customer, beaten only by Zambia.

The total value of South Africa’s automotive exports to Nigeria rose from R1.3-billion in 2011 to R2.14-billion last year, according to the Automotive Export Manual published by the National Association of Automobile Manufacturers of South Africa. Last year, South Africa’s vehicle sales to Nigeria constituted almost 20% of all its automotive exports.

The import factor
The South African government-supported production and development plan replaced the motor industry development plan in January.

It aims to increase local vehicle production by incentivising local investment and hiking up import tariffs to 20% and 25% for imported components and vehicles respectively.

The South African motor vehicle market is made up almost entirely of local sales, but it has come at a cost, with some contesting that the programme has ­contributed R49-billion to the country’s trade deficit, Business Day reported in April.

Nigeria imports 150 000 used cars every year — three times the number of new cars brought into the country — and spends $360-million dollars bringing them in, according to the National Automotive Council in Nigeria. The country’s “import-friendly” tariff policy has led to cheaper imports.

“The sorry thing for Nigeria is that, while other [developing] countries were increasing their duties, Nigeria actually reduced its import duties on vehicles from 30% to between 10% and 20%, making Nigeria one of the dumping grounds for automobiles,” opined an editorial in the Leadership newspaper of Nigeria.

Unlike in South Africa, where the sale of used imported cars is banned, in Nigeria motor vehicles up to 15 years old can be sold in the country.

In a bid to protect the local industry, a government-mandated committee had been considering decreasing the age of allowable imports, which was originally 10 years.

“But instead they increased it to 15 years,” said Dianna Games, chief executive of the South Africa-Nigeria Chamber of Commerce. “There was a bit of an outcry around that.”

The allowance of older vehicle imports into the country, she said, was to enable more Nigerians to buy cars.

“A five-year-old car in Nigeria is still expensive,” said Games. “The reason [the decision to allow older imports was made] was to make it more affordable. At the time the petrol price was going up, so it was a double whammy for the consumer.”

But according to Leadership, other countries such as South Africa got around this by restricting low tariffs to small vehicles, “to help the middle class”.

Local tastes
But South African manufacturers are also up against the buying preferences of Nigerians — and according to Games, they prefer imported brands to local ones.

Chief Innocent Chukwuma, the chairperson of Nigeria’s Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing — the first automobile manufacturing plant in the country — said the company is suffering from low demand from both the private and the public sectors.

Chukwuma said in January that Nigerians refused to appreciate and patronise locally made vehicles. This was despite the fact that some of the cars were cheaper and of better quality than their imported counterparts.

The Nigerian market is not only open to formal imports. It is bolstered by the existence of informal imports from Dubai, China and other places, said Games. These products “remain popular in Nigeria because they are priced lower, not having had to have duties and tariffs applied to their sale price”.

Nevertheless, Games predicts this will change and Nigerians will seek legally imported or locally made cars as they become wealthier. “As the middle class grows, people will seek better value and proper back-up ­service,” she said.

Both Toyota and Nissan have shown an interest in setting up operations in Nigeria, should the “Zagerian” plan get the go-ahead. The South African Revenue Service does not track car exports by brands but, according to Games, Toyota and Nissan are the two most popular exports to Nigeria from South Africa.

Any preferential deal will do
Preferential opportunities in Nigeria for the manufacturers will provide a valuable leg-up for entry into a highly competitive market, said Games.

“This would be a great opportunity for South African auto manufacturers as the competition is stiff in the Nigerian market and any preferential deal would be useful.”

The Mail & Guardian conducted a price comparison between five popular retail cars in Nigeria and South Africa. It shows that prices are generally between 4% and 15% higher in Nigeria than in South Africa, although the comparison was a snapshot rather than one that should be considered reflective of the entire market.

Nevertheless, said Games, a local manufacturing capability would not necessarily translate into cheaper prices for the consumer.

“The cost of production in Nigeria is very high,” said Games. “There is nothing to say that it will be cheaper to buy local cars.”

And yet, despite myriad difficulties, the South African industry remains optimistic about its opportunities for involvement in the Nigerian motor market, which is “still in its infancy” but has great potential for growth, said Games. “As incomes grow, the market for goods and services is growing and that will drive demand.”

Pockets of potential
Norman Lamprecht, executive manager of the National Association of Automobile Manufacturers of South Africa, also saw pockets of potential.

“Opportunities of mutual benefit could be pursued, especially on the automotive component side, depending on the specific models to be produced in Nigeria,” he said.

To this end, the South African government is drafting another agreement of co-operation with Nigeria. Department of trade and industry spokesperson Sidwell Medupe says it is too early to disclose the timelines and how exactly this is being done.

“We are assessing the best ways to collaborate,” he said.


The future of the “Zagerian” car industry hangs in the balance while they do.

*YAWNS and stretches*

so after this long story you have no political influence in Nigeria. i hope you know what can happen if we decide to cut ties or punish you.. we will nationalize those companies and continue from there. now tell me who will lose. olodo

CraigB: A metaphor of what, exactly?

You are all over the place, except where you need to be.

Here is your question:



So, in other words, you aren't able to name a single country in the world that can do what you expect South Africa to do.

So, in other words, this was a silly question?

Why have you wasted our Saturday discussing a nonstarter?

Oh, I know! You asked a question before engaging your brain. And now, it's backtracking time. Only, it's too late.

EMPTY. EMPTY as usual.

did SA hesitate to arrest okah after we gave the order?

so no answer to my question.. case closed

SA is like that boy in a class that everyone takes money from but don't like or respect him.

CraigB: You asked the question. I didn't. You need to prove yourself right.

Which country in the world can tell another one what to do without resistance? Which country meets your very high expectations?

Just give us one, before you can demand to know what countries South Africa can "tell do" without resistance.
Just one country. Not too many.


"Moving to [y]our backyard", while we are in your house. Wonderful.

Metaphor. donkey.. you don't need to be a genius to understand the question. oh i forgot that you are STUP1D.
didn't i say this in my previous post. see how your desire in life is backwardness.

in our house? that's funny. so why did you arrest henry okah after we ordered you to when he fled to SA? why did your government beg for deporting Nigerians after we threatened to cut diplomatic ties and own your companies? you may have businesses here but we own you b!tches.

if you knew how to read you'll see i already answered that. i assume i'll never get my answer other than your usual empty response..

CraigB: In other words, your spewing rubbish means that you're actually the smart one?

Too smooth to shout losing his cool.

Too smooth to shout stuck in the underside of a debate.

you should have at least proved your higher level of intellect by proving me wrong. ID1OT

predictable as usual. whenever i finish you with a proper lecture your over rated schools failed to give you, your counter intelligent response is that i'm fuming.. typical blockhead

i even gave the wrong answer. Nigeria has and will continue to have political influence in almost all the west african countries and we are moving to your backyard.

and dude am not debating with you, am just doing what your schools failed to do for you.

CraigB: I'm off to enjoy my weekend. It's almost noon.

Enjoy the stinky Lagos, losers!

Chow now!

what an ID1OT
saying it's almost noon at 5.09pm.

CraigB: Name one country in the world that "tells do" another and the other doesn't hesitate.

Just one.

D*umb Naai-gerian logic. D*umb question.

The principles of diplomacy allude you.

the EU did it to make your stup1d cowardly government to legalize gay marriage without resistance

the US does it to the whole world.

if your brain wasn't so slow in intelligence and quick to yap at everyone's post, you would know my question is a metaphor. since your ant brain can't decode what i meant, let me help you. my question is "which country can south africa influence politically"?
please don't mention zimbabwe cos the world knows ZIM doesn't respect you.

you are such an Id1ot to be talking about principles of diplomacy and not know that the first principle is "power is a necessary condition for foreign policy success, but not always a sufficient one." Power is necessary because it is not possible to reason with every adversary that threatens a vital interest. Deciding the balance between patience and power is a difficult judgment every president must make.

and diplomacy can also be applied in different ways and the types my comment refers to are: GUNBOAT DIPLOMACY or PUBLIC DIPLOMACY.

you are just too predictable. that why it's so easy to scroll past your comments and not miss a thing.

you are a STUP1D SCUMBAG CraigBitch and it's just been proven.

tell me one country south africa has influenced in politically africa. Id1OT

zetdee: Nigeria is everybody's b**ch.

name one country that respects south africa. just one country SA can tell do and they won't hesitate.

common zimbabwe ran to us for credible and peaceful election while they could have just crossed your border. A nigerian diplomat was chosen to observe an election your government paid for. a common rag tag rebel group that dared to kill your soldiers knowing you don't command respect, FOMAC disgraced you, etc..

it's south africa that is a b**chass country. your government even legalized gay marriage due to european pressure.

[quote author=Mike..ZA]South Africa taking orders from Nigerian government? Don't be ridiculous. Is this the same Nigerian government that because of its failiers,led to the creation of Boko Haram and MEND?[/quote]dude don't be silly. MEND was a problem caused by Abacha(former dictator) after he killed saro wiwa. Niger delta militants have disbanded and have been trained and re integrated into society since 2009.

as for boko haram, am sure you know good or bad government does bot influence islamic fundamentalism? there are british terrorists as well, remember around 2012 when US killed a senior alqaeda militant in Yemen that sparked controversy cos he was an american, many terror suspects have been discovered in Britain too. there are many fundamentalists in developed societies that will become terrorists if the window opens.

Nigeria is one of the countries with high number of muslims in Africa. so islamic insurgency is likely if you look back into the history of northern Nigeria in connection with the sahel.

am not sure you'll want to read to much if i give you the history of the group.

after 3 years boko haram cannot even lay claim to one territory in a vast Nigeria, they now face internal dispute.(one faction wants to lay don arms while shekau's faction wants to keep fighting) say what you will but that's progress.

islamic insurgency is not like a normal rebellion that have root cause. they are die hard muslim fanatics

[quote author=Mike..ZA]Boko Haram evaporated? Your government begged for a ceasefire agreement. You should be thankful to South Africa put to jail the MEND leader.[/quote]you must be crazy to say our government begged for ceasefire if you can't show proof. and about mend, dude your government took orders from us to arrest him after he fled to SA. the guy was living in SA all those years and your government didn't have the balls to hold him.

henry okah is in your jail cos we ordered you to hold him. simple

paniki: The question asked was simply but this thread has gone 600 pages which shows that there will never be any consensus. So in hope for some general agreement, let me ask another question: Which country has the weakest military in Africa?

this is one of the funniest question i've seen on this thread

it's more difficult than knowing who has the strongest. out of 56 countries in africa, there are only about 10 strong military. so to chose from the rest, i think the criteria has to be the nation must have a regular military with a minimum of 5,000 uniform personnel?

CAR
MALI
Rwanda
Swaziland
Ghana

just my opinion o

[quote author=Mike..ZA]The only reason for your country to deploy its troops on the streets is because there's a war going on. Cause crime is a job to be handled by the police not soldiers.[/quote]i can see how your police is saving you indeed. You are being poached everyday and your government will rather pour resources to save animals.

CraigB: They are dying for you - killed by other Naaai-gerians

Do you even believe that you make sense?

South Africa soldiers won't put out military missions against South Africans when we have a police service. South Africa is not ghetto, I repeat. That's why humanoids from the ghetto Naai-geria are dying to come to South Africa.

It's always police missions.

Your years of military rule have served to confuse you.

dude stop being ignorant. It's the worst desease.
We moved beyond military rule like 14 years now.

So who were the marikana miners your military deployed and were armed with assult rifles to fight? Aliens?

See why i hate arguing with you? Always baseless, no objective, just yapping.
You just like moving backwards making me repeat myself.

CraigB: http://www.theafricareport.com/Southern-Africa/army-deployment-in-marikana-draws-widespread-criticism.html]

Make sure you read everything about a subject, before opening your mouth, Naai-gerian.

You'll only serve to further embarrass yourself.

you are a confirmed mokey.. Oh wait.. A mokey is smarter than you. So it will mean you share an IQ with a lemming.

Kindly show me where our military is deployed that isn't plagued by insurgency.

And even before the SOE, Nigerians protested against the deployment of troops on the streets.

And you must be the biggest f00l if you think your dead police can face a full blown islamic insurgency.

The thing is your government deployed soldiers to do police work that could hhave been handled by your dead police... Oh wait..they couldn't(shot almost 40 unharmed protesters just cause one held a gun). SA is a dust bin worst than a real democracy(by your definition of democracy)

CraigB: And Naai-gerian humanoids don't die everyday by gun violence and bomb violence and and and?

at least our troops and police are dying to for us.

What are yours doing? Oh wait i know... They would rather die for rhinos cos your lives aint worth sh*t.

CraigB: Because, humanoid, as explained previously, protecting South Africans inside South Africa is the job of the police. South Africans soldiers cannot point guns at South Africans, simply by virtue of crime.

This is not Naai-geria, where democracy and the separation of power don't exist.

meaning south africa is also not a democracy as you just asserted in your baseless empty post.
cos your useless undemocratic government also deployed soldiers alongside police against marikana protesters with knives and spears, Sent soldiers to do a park ranger's work.

So according to your own statement, what kind of democracy would send soldiers to do police work to the level of working as park rangers. SA is also a ghetto.

How's that you this stup1d Mooch