TheGoodJoe:


What about Conte's record in the Champions League with Juventus?

TheGoodJoe:


I do not know why you try to base your point on me throwing shades at Conte. I think it is time some people get that I do not let sentiments cloud my judgment. If you had a clear mind on this issue, you will see where I wrote that Conte is a master of the 3-4-3 and he can deal with the challenges. I am not throwing shades on Conte but I am talking of the challenges coaching with three at the back.

You chose to use throwing shades at Conte to make it look that way but I have quoted you highlighting Mancini and Van Gaal who had challenges coaching three at the back.

I talked about teams in the last World Cup and the challenges they faced. Yet you chose throwing shades at Conte.

If a different set of wing backs had challenges, do you think the Super Eagles defenders that do not play regularly together will not have problems? Is that throwing shades at Conte?

TheGoodJoe:


What about Conte's record in the Champions League with Juventus?

BascoVanVeli:


No u throwing shade was a side dish, the main meal is that west ham had a tough side on the field and chelsea started without, Hazard, Costa, Matic, Moses, Alonso and Courtois so u cannot proclaim the failure of the 3-4-3 just yet. I don't see any other reason why u won't see that but shade.

joseph1013:
Why Champion's league? Did he lead Juventus to numerous trophies or not? Did his system work or not?

How well did Conte's system work with Italy?

Is your favourite system 4-4-2? If yes, let me show you it is not a fail-proof system.

TheGoodJoe:


I did not say Conte's system did not work in Italy or he did not win trophies. Keep that aside.

Before Conte started, I wanted to see him come to the EPL and play his three at the back set-up, week in week out. Fortunately, he did not. So those people that want to see us playing three at the back soon, should know a coach who played the system for years and works regularly with the team knew it was a risky approach.

In the game against West Ham, West Ham swarmed Chelsea to the point they were laughing.

So I do it think that is the kind of system the Super Eagles should play with.

Our coach is not one who plays the system and people want him to switch from his ideal method to play three at the back.

TheGoodJoe:


I did not say Conte's system did not work in Italy or he did not win trophies. Keep that aside.

Before Conte started, I wanted to see him come to the EPL and play his three at the back set-up, week in week out. Fortunately, he did not. So those people that want to see us playing three at the back soon, should know a coach who played the system for years and works regularly with the team knew it was a risky approach.

In the game against West Ham, West Ham swarmed Chelsea to the point they were laughing.

So I do it think that is the kind of system the Super Eagles should play with.

Our coach is not one who plays the system and people want him to switch from his ideal method to play three at the back.

joseph1013:
Conte has been using 3-5-2 for years. Juventus, Italy, Chelsea.

The problem I have with you singling out the game with West Ham is that I can also single out Chelsea-United game and say it proves the system is the best in the world.

People want to see us test 3-5-2 in friendlies. Why is that a problem?

joseph1013:
You did not say the system did not work, yet you're asking me about Juventus in champions league. What was that about?

Conte has been using 3-5-2 for years. Juventus, Italy, Chelsea.

The problem I have with you singling out the game with West Ham is that I can also single out Chelsea-United game and say it proves the system is the best in the world. West Ham played a weak Chelsea. How is that difficult to understand?

People want to see us test 3-5-2 in friendlies. Why is that a problem?

TheSuperNerd:
I don't think it should be our main/central formation strategy.

But we could employ it as one of our formation strategy options in the long run.

That's my own stand.

TheGoodJoe:


History showed that in the long run, it fails. Very few coaches in the history of football have won trophies with three at the back.

Yet you want Rohr who is not known as a three at the back coach to start experimenting with it.

TheGoodJoe:


The national team does not stay long together. Experimenting, testing and playing that kind of formation is a disaster waiting to happen.

If it were under a coach like Marcelo Bielsa who has a history of the system, no problem, not Rohr.

joseph1013:
But coaches experiment all the time. Do you have any idea how many formations Pep has used? I was reading in the UK Guardian how he used 4 formations in 4 games at Bayern. Formations he's never used before. What about Mourinho? Several! He didn't use the Chelsea Diamond at Madrid.

Football is dynamic. You can't stay still. You must keep evolving. Just look at that guy at Totthenham. What's his name again? He's presently my favourite coach in the EPL. I like to watch games and see movement of players. The way he sets up his team is mesmerizing to watch. That's how dynamic football is.

So you can't say a coach should not try new things especially when we keep telling you it should be on low pressure games. There will always be games when we need to try a plan B.

TheGoodJoe:


I singled the West Ham game not because Chelsea lost. Chelsea lost other games with four at the back under Conte.

I singled the game because of the ease West Ham swarm through. Especially before the second goal.

joseph1013:
But coaches experiment all the time. Do you have any idea how many formations Pep has used? I was reading in the UK Guardian how he used 4 formations in 4 games at Bayern. Formations he's never used before. What about Mourinho? Several! He didn't use the Chelsea Diamond at Madrid.

Football is dynamic. You can't stay still. You must keep evolving. Just look at that guy at Totthenham. What's his name again? He's presently my favourite coach in the EPL. I like to watch games and see movement of players. The way he sets up his team is mesmerizing to watch. That's how dynamic football is.

So you can't say a coach should not try new things especially when we keep telling you it should be on low pressure games. There will always be games when we need to try a plan B.

TheSuperNerd:
It's not like Rohr isn't an intelligent coach.

Come on Sir GoodJoe... No harm in trying it out in just a few friendlies or in second half periods of those friendlies or for the last 25 mins of a friendly.... It's all about adding to our formation strategy options.

I love that air of unpredictability sometimes.

joseph1013:
I will keep quiet about this formation if you can show me a formation that has not never lost a game very woefully. Chelsea lost 2-1, right? Show me a formation that has never lost at least 4-0.

I will keep quiet. Just show me.

TheGoodJoe:


The system has a kind of illusion that goes with it. We debated this extensively on the 2014 World Cup thread. You can go into the friendlies winning everything and then go into the main match and it tanks.

Remember Van Gaal won all his preseason games with three at the back. When the season started, it tanked.

Rohr is smart. This is not about smartness but the challenges of the system.

TheSuperNerd:
Well, Van Gaal also used three at the back at World Cup 2014 and The Netherlands finished in third.

As for challenges, Every system has its Challenges Sir GoodJoe...

TheSuperNerd:
The guy at tottenham?

Mauricio Pochettino...

Brilliant mind.... Heard he had coaching connections as a scholar to Marcelo Bielsa... (hope I heard right)

TheSuperNerd:
Well, Van Gaal also used three at the back at World Cup 2014 and The Netherlands finished in third.

As for challenges, Every system has its Challenges Sir GoodJoe...

joseph1013:
You also heard? It was authoritatively gathered that Sir Alex wanted him for the United job, but his agent was too difficult to deal with.

He's a top top coach. Do you know that he's used 3-5-2 before?

TheSuperNerd:
Abeg.... In the midst of the 3-4-3 arguments, Ehmmm... Oga Tglobal...

Abeg no vex... Been in and out of NL today coz I've been really busy today. Just hopped in the afternoon or so to drop news after the early morning drop.

So abeg... Sir Tglobal... I didn't know it was your Birthday until Sir Terzurum5 dropped something about that few pages back... Plsss... Emabinu...

My own dey come late... HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU AND MAY ALL YOU WISH FOR BE GRANTED THEE.

GODBLESS.

TheGoodJoe:


That is what I am saying. The World Cup was seven games. By the quaters, if I am correct, Robben had to dive to win. As the tournament progressed, it got harder. The Dutch started with a bang with the system. A 5-0 demolition of Spain.

The formation was the best thing since the diamond formation. By the quarters, the fire was out. Semis, they got knocked. Got the third because of The Brazilians lost their groove.

The same Van Gaal abandoned the system.

TheGoodJoe:


This Conte's wins does not excite me. The challenge is people studying and adapting to it. I want to see how long he will last. I think due to the pace of the EPL, too much tweaking of formations do not help.

In the game against Southampton, Guardiola switched from three at the back to four, using a 4-4-2 system. In the game against Man Utd he used a 4-2-3-1 formation. I hope Pep keeps it simple from now.

TheSuperNerd:
Well, I do get you.... But it's only as an option I seek the 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 for. A good, dynamic and "interesting" formation strategic option.

Lawd!!!! Do you know the Dutch side of the '70s reached the world cup finals of 1974 and 1978 playing the finest football of that era with the 3-4-3?


Halt!! I'm not saying it should be our central formation strategy. I'M SAYING ADD IT TO OUR FORMATION OPTIONS. Chikena... It could be helpful against certain oppositions and in certain game situations.

That others have abandoned it doesn't make it bad. Risky yes... But then all of football is risky be it low-risk and high-risk....

It's good to have options.

TheSuperNerd:
Yeah for the EPL..... Too much tweaking of the formations will confuse the players.

The players have to get used to a central formation under a manager firstly before they can adapt to the formation options and tweaks.

For the national team.... We already have a central formation under Rohr (4-2-3-1) and though we're getting better and targeting perfection, we can still imbibe the 3-4-3/3-5-2 as a formation option alongside others like 4-3-3, 4-4-2 diamond, etc.

TheGoodJoe:


Do you know the technical ability of the Dutch side in 1974? Those guys were technical wizards. It is a tough challenging system. Needs drills and intelligence to pull off.

It is too challenging for the Super Eagles. Especially with the short time for preparation.

TheGoodJoe:


This is not about show you. Most coaches do not use the three at the back system because of the risk. The ratio is too high. That is enough to tell you that it is risky for our national team.

tglobal:


Thanks everyone of you, @TheGoodJoe, @TheSuperNerd, @AIG07. I appreciate it. Before today I thought the birthday wishes on nairaland came from friends who knew each other and initially wondered how terzurum5 knew my birthday till i figured out I must have given nairaland the information at some point. Thanks all and keep up the good work