Can the Obamamaniacs please shed light on this. I would love to hear from those who have fought valiantly in support of President Obama's stimulus plan. Please enlighten me on why your cousin in the White House is doing this?

CASH FOR CLUNKERS. . .

But first, did anyone see Geithner on abc's This Week? Does the guy suffer from autism or something? He sounded like whining Palin. . , .no sorry, Palin has more testosterone than this guy.

Anyway, why should my tax money subsidize a car purchase that I am not driving?

Negro_Ntns:

Can the Obamamaniacs please shed light on this. I would love to hear from those who have fought valiantly in support of President Obama's stimulus plan. Please enlighten me on why your cousin in the White House is doing this?

CASH FOR CLUNKERS. . .

But first, did anyone see Geithner on abc's This Week? Does the guy suffer from autism or something? He sounded like whining Palin. . , .no sorry, Palin has more testosterone than this guy.

Anyway, why should my tax money subsidize a car purchase that I am not driving?

It's called Demand Side Stimulus.

The govt can't imagine just giving money out to its citizens . That would be some sort of socialism so why not disguise it in programs such as of "cash for clunkers."

By the way don't worry. They haven't taxed you that money yet but will do so in years to come to recoup so you still have a chance to escape back to Naija to avoid it.

The govt can't imagine just giving money out to its citizens . That would be some sort of socialism so why not disguise it in programs such as of "cash for clunkers."

Ahhhh!!! That makes sense. . .so what happened to his mantra of "CHANGE WASHINGTON"? If White House would fund socialist programs disguised as capitalism, then who is left standing to convince Congress from hiding pork allocations under such generous but defeatist programs? I guess Bush left some barrells of "kool aid" behind for Obama to dispense to the dumbed citizens.

By the way don't worry. They haven't taxed you that money yet but will do so in years to come to recoup so you still have a chance to escape back to Naija to avoid it.

, waiting on Becomerich to finish work on his new map so I will know if I belong in East, North or West.

And the march towards socialism continues. Americans are getting exactly what they voted for and hence exactly what they deserve. You cannot vote in a socialist and not expect socialist policies/programs.

JeSoul:

And the march towards socialism continues. Americans are getting exactly what they voted for and hence exactly what they deserve. You cannot vote in a socialist and not expect socialist policies/programs.

I don't see what the gripe is about socialism. America needs to fall into these cycles when necessary.

As if Capitalism does not have its evils.

JeSoul:

  And the march towards socialism continues. Americans are getting exactly what they voted for and hence exactly what they deserve. You cannot vote in a socialist and not expect socialist policies/programs.

Obama is no socialist. Trust you haven't seen socialist yet.  The likes of hugo chavez and eva morales would laugh at such statement. The US has always ran as a mixed economy so i'm surprised folks are whining about the same tax money that was already wasting away in iraq and afghanistan anyway.  Cut defense spending if you are really worried about saving that precious tax money.

@bawomolo,

Obama is no socialist. Trust you haven't seen socialist yet. The likes of hugo chavez and eva morales would laugh at such statement. The US has always ran as a mixed economy so i'm surprised folks are whining about the same tax money that was already wasting away in iraq and afghanistan anyway. Cut defense spending if you are really worried about saving that precious tax money.

Tell me, what has been the differnece between the way Obama has been operating and Chavez and co have done as well? Granted, Obama hasn't called for the constituion to be changed to accomodate a life presidency but his support for a second bill of rights is an open window to his soul.

Obama like FDR believes in the "Second Bill of Rights". This is nothing more than a socialist agenda. Both men believe that the Bill of Rights we have now are "negative" BOR and that Govt should also ensure "positive" BOR. That is socialism, period.

Why should the country cut defense spending? Isn't that the role of govt to fight wars and defend the country? The govts role in my opinion should be very limited. Offering universal healthcare, mortgages, cash for clunkers, etc shouldn't be in the govt's court.

Tayo-D:

@bawomolo,
Tell me, what has been the differnece between the way Obama has been operating and Chavez and co have done as well? Granted, Obama hasn't called for the constituion to be changed to accomodate a life presidency but his support for a second bill of rights is an open window to his soul.

Obama like FDR believes in the "Second Bill of Rights". This is nothing more than a socialist agenda. Both men believe that the Bill of Rights we have now are "negative" BOR and that Govt should also ensure "positive" BOR. That is socialism, period.

Why should the country cut defense spending? Isn't that the role of govt to fight wars and defend the country? The govts role in my opinion should be very limited. Offering universal healthcare, mortgages, cash for clunkers, etc shouldn't be in the govt's court.

the US expects to pull out of his investments, chavez doesn't. one is temporary the other is expected to be permanent. it's an agenda that combines both socialism and capitalism. Why didn't the republicans get rid of medicare and medicaid if they were all against FDR's policies?

don't see what the gripe is about socialism. America needs to fall into these cycles when necessary.

As if Capitalism does not have its evils.

Amerca has an anti-solcialism policy towards South America. . .or anywhere else on the globe for that matter. Precisely, America is preaching democracy and capitalism around the globe. No socialism, no communism, only capitalism. Falling into a socialist cycle when necessary is not acceptable and could only mean America had been a fraud all along. If there is hope and faith in socialism for economic recovery, then Chaves, Morales, Mugabe and all these other people are doing the right thing for their countries economically.

I can see Taye-Diggs and De La Soul rambling on again about whatnotwhatever.

Socialism ko, communism ni!

Wait till your company gets seized by Obama, then come tell me about Socialism. . . . . Oh I forgot, he virtually seized General Motors. . . . hehehehehe

@ Post,

Cash for Clunkers is not unique to the USA. We've got the same scheme here in the UK. I guess its something to help local car manufacturers, and also with the added benefit of an environmental effect. No be today wey the automobile industry was made a quasi-public institution.

Ibime:

I can see Taye-Diggs and De La Soul rambling on again about whatnotwhatever.

Socialism ko, communism ni!

Wait till your company gets seized by Obama, then come tell me about Socialism. . . . . Oh I forgot, he virtually seized General Motors. . . . hehehehehe

  See this yeye boy    we shall look like the prophets no one listened to in 4 years once the US govt controls the very air we breathe  . They already own banks, cars, housing, soon healthcare, next Ibime, Bawo & Morph 

  Me I will be moving out as soon as this joint becomes second Cuba.

@JeSoul,

They already own banks, cars, housing, soon healthcare, next Ibime, Bawo & Morph

I thot this was a done deal already. Isn't it pathetic to see our brothers carrying bricks for Pharaoh? 

No mind dem pretenders jare. Seriously, America cannot be regarded as a free society anymore. The change has been gradual but it appears Obama just put it on steroids. It seems my good ol' Naija is a freer society than the supposedly God's own country.  Someone made the following statement which I can only paraphrase: "Govt handouts may appear free, but they come with a hefty price tag".

JeSoul:

See this yeye boy we shall look like the prophets no one listened to in 4 years once the US govt controls the very air we breathe . They already own banks, cars, housing, soon healthcare, next Ibime, Bawo & Morph

Me I will be moving out as soon as this joint becomes second Cuba.

last time i checked, obama made it clear that if u like your healthcare, keep it . . . . . . some people dont like theirs and the govt is there to help them.

and if the united states begin to look like cuba to you, you are always free to change base . . . and hurry b4 u loose that freedom to change base

even cuba, russia, china, idi amin's uganda were not able to control the air people breathe, stop scaring ignorant people into paranoa.

Tayo-D:

@JeSoul,
I thot this was a done deal already. Isn't it pathetic to see our brothers carrying bricks for Pharaoh?

No mind dem pretenders jare. Seriously, America cannot be regarded as a free society anymore. The change has been gradual but it appears Obama just put it on steroids. It seems my good ol' Naija is a freer society than the supposedly God's own country. Someone made the following statement which I can only paraphrase: "Govt handouts may appear free, but they come with a hefty price tag".

psycho talk typical psycho talk.

america is no longer free and yet some psychopaths invade town hall meetings and shout down elected officials. try that in russia
good old naija is freer than america now? c'mon, have u been listening to news from naija recently. ahaa. . . . we had a free and fair election and census AND WE SAW JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS THRU AN EFFICIENT JUDICIAL SYSTEM THAT TRIED, CONVICTED AND EXECUTED BOKO-HARAM MEMBERS . . . that is a free country right? . . . ooops . . .error . . . i'm just told, that did not happen

at every critical point in american history, the govt always steps in to help the less privileged. major economists believe stimulus will help the economy. so the president did what he had to do. same thing they told bush and bush did what he had to do (against his party's wishes) some people need health care reforms. you can keep your healthcare b/c obviously it is good, but dont stop the president from helping those who need help. have a heart.

and why maintain unnecesary defence spending on a plane that is no longer needed? cut defense spending from unnecessary to indispensible projects. and who gave the advice? republican defence secretary bob gates.

some of obama's policies have been unacceptable to me, but all this psychio talk will lead nowhere

pres-elect:

last time i checked, obama made it clear that if u like your healthcare, keep it . . . . . . some people dont like theirs and the govt is there to help them.

  I see you have been drinking the kool-aid without checking the nutrition facts. Even the democrats agree that it will be damn near impossible for the privates to survive and people would forced to switch to a govt plan. Old tapes that the right has conveniently dug up for the rest of us show Obama's intent has always been the govt takeover. No new spin is going to erase what he promised to do years ago.

I'm all for reform & have previously been in the uninsured boat as it was too expensive for me. We should make a way for those (citizens & legals only, america doesn't owe anything to illegals) who want it but can't afford it. But this so-called bill even the AMA came out and criticized.

[size=13pt]The biggest insult to me of this entire healthcare reform crap is that members of Congress & their families will NOT be enrolled in it, they will have their own private healthcare seperate from the rest of us insignificants. [/size] I consider this the red-est of flags in this entire situation. If this reform is the best thing since sliced bread why aren't they themselves going to be enrolled in it? what makes their children any more important than ordinary americans?

Tayo-D:

@JeSoul,
I thot this was a done deal already. Isn't it pathetic to see our brothers carrying bricks for Pharaoh? 

hehe bricks  

No mind dem pretenders jare. Seriously, America cannot be regarded as a free society anymore. The change has been gradual but it appears Obama just put it on steroids. It seems my good ol' Naija is a freer society than the supposedly God's own country.  Someone made the following statement which I can only paraphrase: "Govt handouts may appear free, but they come with a hefty price tag". 

  Gbam. I can only laugh at anybody who still thinks anything the govt gives is "free".

JeSoul:

Even the democrats agree that it will be damn near impossible for the privates to survive and people would forced to switch to a govt plan.

A whole load of crap. Is that because the Privates have been cream-skimming, or overcharging for their services, and suddenly they cannot afford to compete at competitive prices? Thank God for Public Healthcare, otherwise these Private companies would be charging obscene amounts. Let the publically provided Healthcare drag them down to realistic prices jare.

Here in the UK, we have a functioning Public and Private healthcare system. Anyone who sells you this load of crap should be charged to travel outside the confines of the 50 states to see the world for what it is.

Load of crap indeed. That's why the rest of the world runs to America for surgeries and other critical healthcare abi? 

I will take private with their obscene costs anyday over public where we'll all be scrambling for reduced, rationed service. You cannot dump 50million extra people into the system and expect it to still work the same way without increasing the number of doctors and other service providers.

and btw are Britian's lawmakers also enrolled in the healthcare system? I am not aware. Can you give me a logical reason why Congress is too special to partake in the public healthcare reform they are trying to shove down our throats?

@JeSoul,

I see you have been drinking the kool-aid without checking the nutrition facts.

You know I was offered that kool-aid as well. However, I decided to check the nutrition facts as you have advised.  Don't expect same from the Association of Pharaoh Brick Builders on Nairaland (APBBN), chaired by no other than his pre-eminent brick-builder, pres-elect.

Here are some of the facts I found out from the kool aid.  It's a reflection of what Obama said to what Obama did.

1.  Obama said he will publish all legislation to the govt's website for five days,  before the President signs it,."  He has broken that promise over and over again.

2. He promised to keep lobbyists out of his administration.  There are at least 15 in his administration.

3. Obama criticised earmarks claiming he will carry out a line item veto to eliminate them.  I'm sure we all know better now.

4.  Same Obama who berated Bush for fear-mongering to achieve a political goal, has adopted the same approach in passing the stimulus package.

5.  Obama hates deficits and called Bush out for doing same.  Yet he voted for the TARP that pushed the deficit under Bush to over $1trillion. Can you imagined he's virtually doubled Bush's deficit with just a few months in office? Doing in months, what Bush did in years!!!

The list goes on and on.  My advise to honorable members of APBBN? If Obama says it, there is a good chance he won't do it.  

Cash for Clunkers is not unique to the USA. We've got the same scheme here in the UK. I guess its something to help local car manufacturers, and also with the added benefit of an environmental effect. No be today wey the automobile industry was made a quasi-public institution.

The End of Imperialism! The UK, for many centuries, trotted round the globe forcing its parliamentary system of government and capitalist economy on natives in different continents.  America is in that same position UK was many years back in the sense that its overbearing power shrinks and to maintain scale of revenue flow, which is dwindled from foreign earnings, it collapses inward on its own citizens. The citizens start to feel what the colonies felt under the imperial power of foreigners.  The fact that the same scheme of subsidy for cash purchase exist in UK does not excuse the practice as anti-capitalism.  Anti-capitalism is reason why Cuba has for many years been economically cordoned off from rest of the global economy. Anti-capitalism is reason why America invaded Panama. Anti-capitalism was used diplomatically and militarily to wage war and destroy societies that supported their own indigenous industries against imposing influx of American corporations on their soil.  Why would America and UK practice, in effect, the very same policies that they advocated against?  Is that not fraudulent?

lol at "APBBN".

Tayo, you no well o. .

@bawomolo,

Why didn't the republicans get rid of medicare and medicaid if they were all against FDR's policies?

First, you may want to know that Medicare and Medicaid were not FDR's entiltlement program.  Those were put inplace by President Lyndon Johnson.

As to FDR? I will quote from Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's book - The Coming of the New Deal: "Those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll taxes there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program."

And as for the intentios of Medicare and Medicaid, please check out what Wilbur Mills told Johnson about the medicare Bill: "I think we've got you something that won't only run on in '66 but we'll run on from here after." http://www.larrydewitt.net/Essays/MedicareDaddy.htm

The biggest insult to me of this entire healthcare reform crap is that members of Congress & their families will NOT be enrolled in it, they will have their own private healthcare seperate from the rest of us insignificants.

"CHANGE WE BELIEVE IN". . .well, walk the talk! This is one of many things wrong with congressional privileges and I thought Obama wasgoing in there to change Washington. Here is the chance to start from top. . .lead by example. Reform healthcare from top where the privilege is at the subsistence of tax dollars.

As to FDR? I will quote from Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's book - The Coming of the New Deal: "Those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll taxes there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program."

Good point! In retrospect, its a good thing Bush failed in his attempt to throw SSI into speculative market.

@Negro,

Good point! In retrospect, its a good thing Bush failed in his attempt to throw SSI into speculative market.

I don't agree on your last point based on principles. I believe every man should only eat what he earns. You should enjoy the fruots of your labour. What we have now is insuring our future with our children's sweat. The principle I live by in this instance this: "Parents should lay up for their children". In this case, we have children laying up for their parents. It's not just right on many levels.

Negro_Ntns:

The End of Imperialism! The UK, for many centuries, trotted round the globe forcing its parliamentary system of government and capitalist economy on natives in different continents.  America is in that same position UK was many years back in the sense that its overbearing power shrinks and to maintain scale of revenue flow, which is dwindled from foreign earnings, it collapses inward on its own citizens. The citizens start to feel what the colonies felt under the imperial power of foreigners.  The fact that the same scheme of subsidy for cash purchase exist in UK does not excuse the practice as anti-capitalism.  Anti-capitalism is reason why Cuba has for many years been economically cordoned off from rest of the global economy. Anti-capitalism is reason why America invaded Panama. Anti-capitalism was used diplomatically and militarily to wage war and destroy societies that supported their own indigenous industries against imposing influx of American corporations on their soil.  Why would America and UK practice, in effect, the very same policies that they advocated against?  Is that not fraudulent?       

While I agree with everyting you mention above. It must also be said that "Anti- capitalist' invasions did not give the ideals of a socialist system any breathing space to evolve as this so called "Western Capitalism" is evolving. This same sentiment was used virtually to destory south american economies during its early stages of democracy by way of the the US interferance using  political sabotage, assasinations and opposition funding in south america.

Many African states have also sufferd this gripping authority which has led to several grotesque policies supported by this system including Apatheid and Privitization schemes to the detriment of the people, This economic imperialism propagated by the west is dependent on the ideals of capitalism as the best system possible in any society without taking into account individaul societies unique history or make up and how well this system can be intergrated into such societies.

Trust me I understand the reasons for capitalist based societies and the issue of Government interferance and control judgng from historical records. However one must take into account the other side of the coin as well.

Which is the overwhelming power these big corporations wield over citizenry not only within but outside of the US  and how it is essential to create equality in the face of such greed and individualistic gluttony seeing that these self created "monsters" do not have overwhelming influence over life and death situations.

If i have to delegate this authority to the government, then I am willing to do so in this instance ( talking about health care).

morpheus24:

Which is the overwhelming power these big corporations wield over citizenry not only within but outside of the US  and how it is essential to create equality in the face of such greed and individualistic gluttony seeing that these self created "monsters" do not have overwhelming influence over life and death situations.

  You are right and I agree with the above. We need to get a handle on the type of greed that led to the downfall of the housing industry. Healthy competition is good but when they connive with themselves against the citizenry in order to line their pockets, it is wrong and should be fought against. Where I disagree is this:

If i have to delegate this authority to the government, then I am willing to do so in this instance ( talking about health care).

   To relinquish this kind of authority to the govt is scary. 

Let me use my state the good ol' massachusetts for example. Exhibit A: the Big Dig, the most expensive highway project in US history. Which has come to be the poster child for govt failure in the history of Mass and the US public projects. The 'completed' highway has so many problems from corruption to massive leaks to substandard materials and work which led to the ceiling collapsing and killing a woman in her car - one day after I drove through that same tunnel. Est to cost $6 bill, the costs are now standing somewhere in the neighborhood of $22 billion.

What is my point? the govt cannot run anything effectively, almost everything they try to fix, they ruin or create another problem in the process. They underestimate cost to make people fall for it, then the price tags explodes. If we think Private insurance companies are doing a shoddy job, just wait till the govt takes over and shows us they are capable of attaining previously unimaginable, unattainable lows.

  I am for govt finding a way to monitor or 'regulate' and provide watchful oversight on the insurance companies but not for an outright takeover (which is what it will come down to). Especially when they themselves will not be enrolled in this so-called reform.

Tayo-D:

@JeSoul,
You know I was offered that kool-aid as well. However, I decided to check the nutrition facts as you have advised. Don't expect same from the Association of Pharaoh Brick Builders on Nairaland (APBBN), chaired by no other than his pre-eminent brick-builder, pres-elect.

ROTFLOL where pres-elect? come and defend yourself quick quick

I couldn't believe when I heard the audio yesterday from years ago where Obama was complaining about the Patriot Act and how it was rushed into law and people did not have the time to read or debate it and it was shoved down americans throats I was like is this dude serious? this is the exact same thing he's doing with the healthcare bill.

One angry taxpayer said "He took 6 months to pick a dog, but they want to change the entire healthcare system in 3-4 weeks?" - Classic!

. . .  wait a second, this thread is about Cash from Suckers for Clunkers not Healthcare
Sorry poster!

@JeSoul,

One angry taxpayer said "He took 6 months to pick a dog, but they want to change the entire healthcare system in 3-4 weeks?" - Classic!

Let me share another classic statement with you. It was made by the John Conyers, the Democratic Chairman of the House Judiciary Committe. He said the folowing: "What good is reading the bill if it’s a thousand pages and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?" Can you imagine, even the Chairman of the Judiciary Committe requires lawyer[b](s)[/b] to understand the Bill they were planning to force down our throats.

I like Gringich's response to the above statement. Gingrich said something like this: "If the Bill is too complicated to understand, it must be too complicated to implement."

JeSoul:

(1.)  Load of crap indeed. That's why the rest of the world runs to America for surgeries and other critical healthcare abi?  

(2.) I will take private with their obscene costs anyday over public where we'll all be scrambling for reduced, rationed service. You cannot dump 50million extra people into the system and expect it to still work the same way without increasing the number of doctors and other service providers.

(1.) Dont flatter yourself. Who want reach Yankee for wetin? Private healthcare in Britain is better than in Yankee so stop chatting rubbish. My girl works for UCL HCA in Warren Street and they always have people like the King of Bahrain, Roman Abramovic etc coming there for treatment.

(2.) Yeah, and we also get top quailty private here as well


You made a silly suggestion that Privates will close under Obamas scheme. This is scare-mongering, the likes of which Republicans easily fall for. Hell yeah, some privates may close, but demand for Healthcare remains the same, and the same no of jobs or more will remain for Doctors, Nurses & Lab Technicians . . . . .some Privates may close when demand falls. . . . but the only loss is that SHAREHOLDERS OF THOSE PRIVATES WILL LOSE EQUITY. . . .who gives a flying phock?. . . . thank God, money is not flying out of your pocket into shareholders pockets anymore instead of being spent on YOUR ACTUAL HEALTH!!!. . . I wonder if some people are lobotomised by listening to radio shows and lose all sense of perspective.

Privates who are competitive will remain so. . . .the rest of the charlatans can hit the wall, but their doctors and nurses will find gainful employment almost immediately.

JeSoul:

. . . wait a second, this thread is about Cash from Suckers for Clunkers not Healthcare
Sorry poster!

They did the quck "switchero" on us

@Ibime,

You made a silly suggestion that Privates will close under Obamas scheme. This is scare-mongering, the likes of which Republicans easily fall for.

It will be nice if you understand the position of the person you are defending. Obama's goal is to eliminate the private option leading to a single payer system. Maybe you should watch this 2 minute video chronicling Obama's stand on the matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk&feature=player_embedded