The problem you experience comes about due to the way you think about matter. Thinking that matter must be clunky and dross, and very different from spiritual stuff which must be refined and ephemeral, leads us to the dualistic conception of the universe.

The fact is that the nature of the universe is one. Call it material, or spiritual (if you like). The universe manifests itself in a continuum ranging from presently undetectable dark energy, to visible energy, and the grosser material forms.

There is no duality. Normally, matter manifests in an unorganised way. Life, and its product mind, is just one of the special manifestations of matter when it is highly organised. Asking whether consciousness begat the universe or vice versa is just like the old chicken and egg problem. Its afallacy in analysis that misunderstands the nature of the universe and the observed rules of its development. Please refer to the laws of dialectics, and Newtons laws of motion. Particularly, that any developing system contains diametrically opposed forces active within it, responsible its development, or movement (if you will)

And what is the real ultimate nature of matter or the universe? We can never be able to answer this question, and there's little point in guessing. It should be sufficient to understand our area of the universe for the improvement of our physical existence.

holocron:
The problem you experience comes about due to the way you think about matter. Thinking that matter must be clunky and dross, and very different from spiritual stuff which must be refined and ephemeral, leads us to the dualistic conception of the universe.

The fact is that the nature of the universe is one. Call it material, or spiritual (if you like). The universe manifests itself in a continuum ranging from presently undetectable dark energy, to visible energy, and the grosser material forms.

There is no duality. Normally, matter manifests in an unorganised way. Life, and its product mind, is just one of the special manifestations of matter when it is highly organised. Asking whether consciousness begat the universe or vice versa is just like the old chicken and egg problem. Its afallacy in analysis that misunderstands the nature of the universe and the observed rules of its development. Please refer to the laws of dialectics, and Newtons laws of motion. Particularly, that any developing system contains diametrically opposed forces active within it, responsible its development, or movement (if you will)

And what is the real ultimate nature of matter or the universe? We can never be able to answer this question, and there's little point in guessing. It should be sufficient to understand our area of the universe for the improvement of our physical existence.

Finely done!!!

But sirs, I'm still yet to comprehend how it is possible for biological processes and chemical reactions to have given rise to mind and consciousness... Seriously, uncles, the concept is just beyond me... it seems like a cop-out, and really does test my objectivity. I can't dismiss it though, other than it sounds far-fetched... I'll appreciate if you can really break it down for me, 'cause I still don't get it sirs...

Ayomikun37:
But sirs, I'm still yet to comprehend how it is possible for biological processes and chemical reactions to have given rise to mind and consciousness... Seriously, uncles, the concept is just beyond me... it seems like a cop-out, and really does test my objectivity. I can't dismiss it though, other than it sounds far-fetched... I'll appreciate if you can really break it down for me, 'cause I still don't get it sirs...

What is consciousness to start with

johnydon22:


What is consciousness to start with

I think it is the state of being aware of things external to one's self, having a mind and being aware of other self,-conscious beings. I think this is what is called :having a theory of mind... So I've been wondering how matter could have given rise to a mind that philosophizes, that recognizes a good music and can shed tears when thrilled by one, and so on... I'll appreciate some explanations sir.

The universe is purely physical off course . But it 'emerged' from the immaterial realm . God created the universe from Nothing . Nothing = non existence of the physical realm . Consciousness comes from God . Consciousness basically is self awareness , God has always been self aware . So yes , the universe is a product of consciousness , the mind , energy - these are all part of the eternal conscious creator , God .

cc : Ayomikun37

Ayomikun37:
This is a question that has always bothered me ever since the advent of my atheism... Is the universe really all about the physical alone? Is it possible that everything can be explained through empirical and physical means? Is MIND a product of MATTER or is it the other way round? Which sounds more probable? How reasonable and credible is the materialistic position? What do you think of Robert Lanza's concept of Biocentric Universe which holds that [size=16]Consciousness "creates" the universe and not the other way round?[/size] How credible do you think this is? Does it contain any element of truth? WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Thoughts create matter . Thoughts come from the mind . The mind created matter . God has the mind . God created matter

Ayomikun37:
I think it is the state of being aware of things external to one's self, having a mind and being aware of other self,-conscious beings. I think this is what is called :having a theory of mind... So I've been wondering how matter could have given rise to a mind that philosophizes, that recognizes a good music and can shed tears when thrilled by one, and so on... I'll appreciate some explanations sir.

slowly, so consciousness is a state of being aware.... Is a plant then conscious?

KingEbukasBlog:


Thoughts create matter . Thoughts come from the mind . The mind created matter . God has the mind . God created matter

Do plants have thoughts?

sonOfLucifer:

Do plants have thoughts?

I can't say for sure . But they are conscious, have feelings and are intelligent - response to changes and communication . If they respond in a particular way to an action then they are rather programmed . Thoughts lead to decision , planning etc .

More evidence of design

KingEbukasBlog:


I can't say for sure . But they are conscious, have feelings and are intelligent - response to changes and communication . If they respond in a particular way to an action then they are rather programmed . Thoughts lead to decision , planning etc .

More evidence of design

You have a knack for answering unasked questions.

sonOfLucifer:

You have a knack for answering unasked questions.

Wah did I do

Some european scientists sometimes bury their ego and accept the truth for what it is. Robert Lanza is right in this instance that " Consciousness created and will always create and had always created the universe. Universe has a beginning and has an ending. Creation on the other hand neither has a beginning nor an ending.

Consciousness in itself exist within a super-consciousness(Unconsciousness). Consciousness is when I am aware of what surrounds me with the help of My seven (7) senses, yet I seem not to be able to see more than 90% of all that is around but My Unconsciousness sees it all.
Consciousness is when I vibrate at the same frequency at which all that I can sense vibrate (synchronization).

Can I see the sun and feel its warmth? Yes (It exist)
Can I see the stars at night as a result of the sun setting? Yes (They exist).
Can I see your question, on nairaland? Yes (The computer, your thoughts, YOU, all those who Replied, viewed etc are all real).

I am going to attach two pictures below describing faintly the beginning from Ifa sciences and few other tales(allorgorical but mathematical when understood) from an Elder who authored IFISM (Osamaro Ibie)

Ayomikun37:
This is a question that has always bothered me ever since the advent of my atheism... Is the universe really all about the physical alone? Is it possible that everything can be explained through empirical and physical means? Is MIND a product of MATTER or is it the other way round? Which sounds more probable? How reasonable and credible is the materialistic position? What do you think of Robert Lanza's concept of Biocentric Universe which holds that [size=16]Consciousness "creates" the universe and not the other way round?[/size] How credible do you think this is? Does it contain any element of truth? WHAT DO YOU THINK?

johnydon22:


slowly, so consciousness is a state of being aware.... Is a plant then conscious?

I will say NO, sir...

Ayomikun37:
I will say NO, sir...

Plants are conscious my friend .

KingEbukasBlog:
The universe is purely physical off course . But it 'emerged' from the immaterial realm . God created the universe from Nothing . Nothing = non existence of the physical realm . Consciousness comes from God . Consciousness basically is self awareness , God has always been self aware . So yes , the universe is a product of consciousness , the mind , energy - these are all part of the eternal conscious creator , God .

cc : Ayomikun37

Sir, you should know that I, being an atheist won't buy into your explanation...

KingEbukasBlog:

Plants are conscious my friend .

Be my teacher, sir...

Ayomikun37:
I will say NO, sir...

But they are Aware of both Light and water in their surroundings, Plants are Photoreceptive ..

If you want to confirm we could do a little experiment, Cover a small pot plant with a carton and make sure no light enters the box from any place, make sure it is pitch black.

then make a small hole just at any side of the carton you want, drop it and leave it for some days or week, check again you will see the plant will lean towards the source of light..

why do you think trees grow upwards .. lol..

So plants are Photoreceptive... should we continue?

KingEbukasBlog:

Plants are conscious my friend .

No be fight ..lol

Ayomikun37:
Sir, you should know that I am close minded and I won't buy into your explanation...

Fixed your comment for you .

The universe is a product of consciousness . Consciousness requires an entity . God is conscious . God is that entity . How is this abstruse ?

johnydon22:


No be fight ..lol

You read that comment in a different way . Read it a mild way .

johnydon22:


But they are Aware of both Light and water in their surroundings, Plants are Photoreceptive ..

If you want to confirm we could do a little experiment, Cover a small pot plant with a carton and make sure no light enters the box from any place, make sure it is pitch black.

then make a small hole just at any side of the carton you want, drop it and leave it for some days or week, check again you will see the plant will lean towards the source of light..

why do you think trees grow upwards .. lol..

So plants are Photoreceptive... should we continue?

Do you think plants have thoughts ? If you consider Rene Descartes' statement “I think, therefore I am” which supposedly perfectly encapsulates the mystery of consciousness then we can without doubt conclude that plants should have thoughts .

johnydon22:


But they are Aware of both Light and water in their surroundings, Plants are Photoreceptive ..

If you want to confirm we could do a little experiment, Cover a small pot plant with a carton and make sure no light enters the box from any place, make sure it is pitch black.

then make a small hole just at any side of the carton you want, drop it and leave it for some days or week, check again you will see the plant will lean towards the source of light..

why do you think trees grow upwards .. lol..

So plants are Photoreceptive... should we continue?

Yes sir. Please continue...

Ayomikun37:
Yes sir. Please continue...

Ok so now, what do you think is responsible for this photoreceptiveness cum awareness in a plant

KingEbukasBlog:


Do you think plants have thoughts ? If you consider Rene Descartes' statement “I think, therefore I am” which supposedly perfectly encapsulates the mystery of consciousness then we can without doubt conclude that plants should have thoughts .

Does this imply anything that is, thinks?

johnydon22:


Does this imply anything that is, thinks?

I don't think there were actual thoughts in place before it responds to any change to environment . Its like it is programmed to behave in a particular way as a response to a particular change in its environment . Its tough to say .

johnydon22:


Ok so now, what do you think is responsible for this photoreceptiveness cum awareness in a plant

Perhaps the presence of a "mind" or "will", but at a rather primitive level...

KingEbukasBlog:


I don't think there were actual thoughts in place before it responds to any change to environment . Its like it is programmed to behave in a particular way as a response to a particular change in its environment . Its tough to say .

No my question was in response to the quote "I think, therefore i am" which you said supposedly perfectly cover the mystery of consciousness.

so i asked "Does this imply that everything that is, think? "

Ayomikun37:
Perhaps the presence of a "mind" or "will", but at a rather primitive level...

No i mean in a biological sense, what part of a plant is responsible for it's photosensitivity?

E.g in a human you would say eyes which of course can be broken down to billions of neurological connections through the retina to the brain for interpretation..

So what part of a plant is responsible for it's photoreceptiveness?

johnydon22:

No i mean in a biological sense, what part of a plant is responsible for it's photosensitivity?

E.g in a human you would say eyes which of course can be broken down to billions of neurological connections through the retina to the brain for interpretation..

So what part of a plant is responsible for it's photoreceptiveness?

Photoreceptor proteins called phototropins, I think...

Ayomikun37:
Photoreceptor proteins called phototropins, I think...

Good and are Phototropins Matter?