Lezzlie:
The fact that they speak igboid language showed that they are predominantly igboid with a pocket of immigrants from Benin. Never forget the Benin empire was so great and influential it spanned across the Niger.

That my friend, may just be another reason. The answer you seek is hidden in the between the very submission you just made.

No further explanation needed.

Does the fact that Igbos outnumber the Edos make Aniomas Igbos?

According to one count, 6,703 separate languages were spoken in the world in 1996. Of these, 1000 were spoken in the Americas, 2011 in Africa, 225 in Europe, 2165 in Asia, and 1320 in the Pacific, including Australia. These numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, because our information about many languages is scant or outdated, (and it is hard to draw the line between languages and dialects). But most linguists agree that there are well over 5,000 languages in the world. A century from now, however, many of these languages may be extinct. Some linguists believe the number may decrease by half; some say the total could fall to mere hundreds as the majority of the world's languages - most spoken by a few thousand people or less - give way to languages like English, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin Chinese, Russian, Indonesian, Arabic, Swahili, and Hindi. By some estimates, 80% of the world's languages may vanish within the next century.

What does it mean to say a language is endangered?
An endangered language is one that is likely to become extinct in the near future. Many languages are failing out of use and being replaced by others that are more widely used in the region or nation, such as English in the U.S. or Spanish in Mexico. Unless current trends are reversed, these endangered languages will become extinct within the next century. Many other languages are no longer being learned by new generations of children or by new adult speakers; these languages will become extinct when their last speaker dies. In fact, dozens of languages today have only one native speaker still living, and that person's death will mean the extinction of the language: It will no longer be spoken, or known, by anyone.

Is that what happened to dead languages like Ancient Greek and Latin?
No. These languages are considered dead because they are no longer spoken in the form in which we find them in ancient writings. But they weren't abruptly replaced by other languages; instead, Ancient Greek slowly evolved into modern Greek, and Latin slowly evolved into modern Italian, Spanish, French, Romanian, and other languages. In the same way, the Middle English of Chaucer's day is no longer spoken, but it has evolved into Modern English.

How do languages become extinct?
Outright genocide is one cause of language extinction. For example, when European invaders exterminated the Tasmanians in the early 19th century, an unknown number of languages died as well. Far more often, however, languages become extinct when a community finds itself under pressure to integrate with a larger or more powerful group. Sometimes the people learn the outsiders' language in addition to their own; this has happened in Greenland, a territory of Denmark, where Kalaallisut is learned alongside Danish. But often the community is pressured to give up its language and even its ethnic and cultural identity. This has been the case for the ethnic Kurds in Turkey, who are forbidden by law to print or formally teach their language. It has also been the case for younger speakers of Native American languages, who, as recently as the ig6os, were punished for speaking their native languages at boarding schools.
http://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/what-endangered-language

chukzyblingz:
Does the fact that Igbos outnumber the Edos make Aniomas Igbos?

So what are they?

Lezzlie:
So what are they?

what a strange way of reasoning

chukzyblingz:
what a strange way of reasoning

What an evasive way of parrying self-woven obscurity.

PabloAfricanus:


Cmon dude, dont be clever by half
You like so many before appear to be fixated on conveniently forgetting facts put before you
Lemme help you out there:
1. The first "Igbo" people whom the Europeans met were at Aboh and were identified by the Obi as living
on both sides of the Niger, with the Obi claiming suzerainity over "55 miles along both sides of the river".

2."Igbo" as a appelation for identifying people speaking "Igbo" dialects did not come into being with the Europeans,
rather people were bearing names like Igboanugo, Igbokwe, Igbo, Obigbo,Igboamaeze etc. then and now

3.All the Igbo speaking peoples knew what the appelation "Igbo" meant and understood it to be the "name of the people"
or the "name of the language" by which the "Igbo" people called themselves. It was corrupted to "Ibo" apparently cos the
whites could not vocalize the "gb" sound.

4.The first "Igbo" bible was written in Opobo dialect and was not called "Opobo" or "Bonny" bible, rather "Igbo" bible.
The Igbo appellation was neither invented nor was it strange sounding to the hinterlands when they heard it.

5. The first native Christian missionaries to the Igbo hinterlands came from Opobo, Aboh, Onitsha, Ndi Olu areas and did not find
it that difficult communicating in "Igbo" language to the more unexposed hinterland dwellers they preached to. All it took was acclimatization
to the dialectical differences.

6. To the best of my knowledge, no one needs you to be Igbo or accept the Igbo nomenclature.
It is the crass rejection/denial that makes the "other" Igbos either look funny, bad or foolish, given that this is coming from
a people who were the subjects of the first "Igbo" historical writings by the Europeans.
Moreso, when "geneologies" and "ancestral ties" are invented all in a bid to perpetuate a self inflicted identity crisis,
it only leads to tauntings, mockeries and yes a little disbelief at the foolishness of it all.


My 2 cents.

The only error in this writeup are the parts where you assert a precolonial understanding of "Igbo" as an ethnonym. Aside from that, this post is excellent.

Igboid:


No. I see no reason.
We as a people had passed over that stage of clannish tendencies and independence.

The colonials met us a fragmented people, but being in the same country with bitter rivals who were non Igbo speaking, saw us emerge together as one Ibo people politically.

We have passed the clannish stage in our evolution. And won't allow some people draw us back to that stage, simply because we lost a war. Mbanu!

Ukwuani can still maintain its distinctive nature, but it has to be under the Igbo banner, because even in SE, clans like Ngwa,Nsukka,Ndoki,Asa, etc, still retained their distinctive nature, they have their own languages with dialects, an even organizations, but it's all still done under the Igbo umbrella.

This is not the same with what Igbo denials in Anioma are seeking.

Gbam!

MrAnalyst:

In the current Nigerian make-up,the statement does not make sense. No offence. Maybe in precolonial Nigeria or immediately after independence such may have being attempted but not anymore. In a time when Igbos are currently trying to save their skins,balkanizing ourselves will be foolhardy.

Yea.... That's why I said its better to team up as one and give the hausa-fulani and yoruba a run for our resources instead of claiming minorities.

So though I'm ukwuani, I would never deny that I'm igbo

PabloAfricanus:


Infact if I were Igbo, I will be loath to accept into a pan Igbo fold peoples who denied their ancestry openly and vehemently for political expediency. If human nature is anything to go by, you can be rest assured the resentment and hatred will be lying latent and still on the surface...

Calm down bro.....

No be fight

PabloAfricanus:

If there was a religious crisis in Kano and the resident Igbos were accused of having blasphemed Prophet Muhammed,
you know how it goes and the mob happen to be out for blood.
How will they tell the difference between these 6 Southern Nigerian men living in Sabon Gari?
Elechi Martins, Elechi Amadi, Chukwuma Nzeogwu, Chukwuma Soludo, Ifeanyi Uba and Ifeanyi Okowa?

How will they identify the ones who are Igbo and the ones who are Edoid among them?

That's what I've been saying .... Once you pass Agbor into Benin and onward, nobody cares about whether you're ukwuani, ikwerre or andoni or ika.

Once you bear "igbo " name ... You're igbo ...!!..

The tribe you come from does not concern them.

There are only three tribes in Nigeria ... Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba.... That's alll..!..

ChinenyeN:


The only error in this writeup are the parts where you assert a precolonial understanding of "Igbo" as an ethnonym. Aside from that, this post is excellent.

If I get you correctly, you meant "Igbo" was unknown by "Igbo" speaking peoples as an "umbrella" name hence an ethnonym right?
If that is correct, then it appears your definition of then "Igbo" inter clan communication is a bit narrow.
I agree the "Igbo" ethnonym was the common denominator name used to designate the peoples east and west of the Niger who were
identified as speaking the "Igbo" tongue.
Prior to then, it was strictly a clannish thing.

But then, "Igbo" as an ethnonym was neither invented nor imposed.
It was an appellation the majority of the peoples themselves used as the common
denominator name amongst themselves and their neighbours speaking mutually intelligible languages.


A man from Ahiara area of now Mbaise would be called Isuama by people from Owerri environs.
The Ngwas from across the Imo river called those on the other side "Ohuhu" and so on.
But you appear to forget the usage of the word "Igbo" was in vogue and was a wellknown surname or prefix/suffix in surnames.
It was also used by these peoples themselves for certain designations.
I leave it to you to do the research or even better present first hand and more accurate information.

Here are a few tips for you, when did the peoples speaking "Owerri", "Isuama","Ngwa", "Idemili", "Awka", "Nri" etc. dialects spread across the landmass now known as SE Nigeria start using the phrases "onye igbo", "asusu igbo" and "ndi igbo" ?
Which precolonial "Igbo" clans made use of the word/cognomen "Igbo" in their first names or surnames? Like "Amaigbo", "Igbokwe" etc?
While at it, how did say people in the area now called "Orlu" axis of Imo state differentiate between the language spoken by the missionaries from Onitsha and the missionaries from say Opobo or Owerri?

oweniwe:


Calm down bro.....

No be fight

Apparently you have never lived in Ikwerre land before when land tussles between sons of the soil, riverine Ijaws and "Igbo" migrants
was in vogue.
Or you have never heard of Relechi Ramadi ( as some funny poster helped him complete the transformation) or the late Kunirim Ossai, Emeka Esogbue and their Igbo speaking but Bini descended theories?
There was a time when it was the biggest personal historical hobby I embarked on when I had spare time...this whole Igbo/Bini stuff.
I tell you, the resentment and hatred is real.
The reasons why I have not been able to fathom though.
Used to think it was because of Niger delta oil, but then Imo state has been receiving payments from petrodollar sales and Anambra, Abia, Enugu and Ebonyi folks are yet to start "claiming" a part of Imo state's largesse from the petrodollars accrued to Imo state.
So you tell me, how did "Igbo" turn to "Igbon"...a so called Bini/Anioma name for slaves?
And how did a people speaking "Igbo" manage to imbibe a practice of such wide spread selective amnesia?
You know that they forget, people from across the Niger find their language mutually intelligible?

oweniwe:


Yea.... That's why I said its better to team up as one and give the hausa-fulani and yoruba a run for our resources instead of claiming minorities.

So though I'm ukwuani, I would never deny that I'm igbo

I'm Ika and I'm not Igbo. Though Anioma and Ika have a common enemy in Hausa Fulani and to some extent Yoruba that aid them in their demonic mission, no true son of Anioma will denounce their Anioma heritage for political gains. I' want the actualization of Biafra and I know Anioma will be in either Biafra or Niger delta Republic depends on how things play out. But does being in Biafra amount to being Igbo?

PabloAfricanus, the use of "Igbo" to refer to an ethnic group was first done by Europeans. They assumed that an "Igbo ethnic group" existed. However, they themselves documented several times where an overwhelming majority of incoming slaves from the hinterland expressed no previous knowledge of the term "Igbo" or the idea of an "Igbo" ethnic community. Still they carried on with their assumption.

Baikie, a naval doctor who sailed with the Royal Navy on two Niger River expeditions (and was among those who championed the "Igbo ethnic group" assumption), claimed in his report to have had trouble finding those who claimed to be "Igbo", despite the fact that he was surrounded on both sides of the Niger by communities we will now, in modern times, call "Igbo" or "Igbo-speaking". This was in 1856. In 1854, a German missionary working with freed "Igbo" slaves in Sierra Leone noted that to his surprise, only a small fraction of the Sierra Leone freed slave population admitted to knowing the term "Igbo" before meeting Europeans, but they still did not claim an "Igbo" identity. The remaining majority of the freed slave population shared that the term "Igbo" was completely unknown to them until they learned it directly from Europeans.

Lastly, most Europeans who wrote about an "Igbo" identity never stepped foot in the hinterland. This idea of a precolonial "Igbo" identity is misinformation. So, let it be made abundantly clear. The existence of the term "Igbo" is not in question. However, how the term was used is the issue. There are some who knew the term precolonially and some who did not, but even among those who knew it, it was not an ethnonym.

It was not until the period of colonial rule (period of intelligence reports) that Europeans began to realize that there was no "Igbo" ethnic identity.

You also mentioned a bunch of Igbo "clans", one of which happens to be mine (Ngwa). Having been versed in my people's oral traditions and folk tales, I can confidently state that not a single one of our traditions uses the term "Igbo", neither was the term "Igbo" used as a term of identification in our culture. In fact, any knowledgeable Ngwa person will tell you that we did not learn of "Igbo" until colonial rule.

oweniwe:


Yea.... That's why I said its better to team up as one and give the hausa-fulani and yoruba a run for our resources instead of claiming minorities.

So though I'm ukwuani, I would never deny that I'm igbo

Please preach this to Ishilove

Look at the western flank, whether they be Egun, Ijebu, Egba or whatever they accept being called Yoruba.


Look at the northern flank, whether they be Fulani, Kanuri or Hausa they all accept being called Hausa.


It is only when you come eastwards that you see people like Ishilove saying they are not Igbo but Ukwuani. You hear another one say he is not Igbo but Ikwerre. God help us in the eastern flank. I wonder what you'll will gain with all this minority you're claming. It has now changed from 'We SS' to 'We Anioma.' odiegwu ooo.


As for Ishilove and co, if a war breaks out in Nigeria today then you will understand how the rest of Nigeria sees you.

Thank God for guys like Ikechi1 & Ugomba.

A word is enough for the wise.

Leopard2A7:


Please preach this to Ishilove

She knows jor.....

The thing is... If you say you're Igbo from Anioma or Ukwuani.....

The Igbo ppl from the SE will start taunting that you're "fake igbo "

If an Anioma person want to start a venture or group and he go meet SE Igbo people for support, they will start asking him stupid questions about his origin.... Questions they would never ask an abia or ebonyi man.

In a nutshell, SE igbo see themselves as being superior to other igbo speaking people around yhem.

This kind of "Superior mentality " is what other igbo speaking people find repulsive... They would rather walk away than be dressed down or belittled by people they initially thought were their brothers.

ChinenyeN:
PabloAfricanus, the use of "Igbo" to refer to an ethnic group was first done by Europeans. It was documented several times by Europeans that an overwhelming majority of incoming slaves from the hinterland expressed no previous knowledge of the term "Igbo" or the idea of an "Igbo" ethnic community.

Baikie, a naval doctor who sailed with the Royal Navy on two Niger River expeditions claimed in his report to have had trouble finding those who claimed to be "Igbo", despite the fact that he was surrounded on both sides of the Niger by communities we will now, in modern times, call "Igbo" or "Igbo-speaking". This was in 1856. In 1854, a German missionary working with freed "Igbo" slaves in Sierra Leone noted that to his surprise, only a small fraction of the Sierra Leone freed slave population admitted to knowing the term "Igbo" before meeting Europeans, but they still did not claim an "Igbo" identity. The remaining majority of the freed slave population shared that the term "Igbo" was completely unknown to them until they learned it directly from Europeans.

Lastly, most Europeans who wrote about an "Igbo" identity never stepped foot in the hinterland. This idea of a precolonial "Igbo" identity is misinformation. So, let it be made abundantly clear. The existence of the term "Igbo" is not in question. However, how the term was used is the issue. There are some who knew the term precolonially and some who did not, but even among those who knew it, it was not an ethnonym.

It was not until the period of colonial rule (period of intelligence reports) that Europeans began to realize that there was no "Igbo" ethnic identity.

You also mentioned a bunch of Igbo "clans", one of which happens to be mine (Ngwa). Having been versed in my people's oral traditions and folk tales, I can confidently state that not a single one of our traditions uses the term "Igbo", neither was the term "Igbo" used as a term of identification in our culture. In fact, any knowledgeable Ngwa person will tell you that we did not learn of "Igbo" until colonial rule.

Fair enough. Your points are equally valid.
But you skipped these parts of my question
when did the peoples speaking "Owerri", "Isuama","Ngwa", "Idemili", "Awka", "Nri" etc. dialects spread across the landmass now known as SE Nigeria start using the phrases "onye igbo", "asusu igbo" and "ndi igbo" ?

You know in fairness to the Ikas/Aniomas, they were the first recorded ones who used the word "onye igbo" to describe peoples east of the Niger speaking mutually intelligible languages.
Till today, Onitsha folks call their next door neighbours Obosi "nwa onye igbo".
Oguta folks still call everyone else apart from their EzeChima cousins "onye igbo".
So there is an angle you might approach this discussion from and people like chukzyblingz and the rest of the Igbo deniers would be absolutely right. Cos they were the ones who used the word "Igbo" first as an ethnonym, but never on themselves.

In my opinion, the "Igbo" speaking peoples did not have the word "Igbo" invented for them.
When an Ngwa man found himself say in Aboh trading say in the 1750s, the term "onye igbo" used as an identifier would not be lost on him.
When an Opobo missionary preacher came calling to say Owerri, the question "i na asu igbo?" or phrase "asusu igbo" would not be lost on the Owerri natives.
The widespread use as an ethnonym came later on. On that I am in agreement with you.

oweniwe:


She knows jor.....

The thing is... If you say you're Igbo from Anioma or Ukwuani.....

The Igbo ppl from the SE will start taunting that you're "fake igbo "

If an Anioma person want to start a venture or group and he go meet SE Igbo people for support, they will start asking him stupid questions about his origin.... Questions they would never ask an abia or ebonyi man.

In a nutshell, SE igbo see themselves as being superior to other igbo speaking people around yhem.

This kind of "Superior mentality " is what other igbo speaking people find repulsive... They would rather walk away than be dressed down or belittled by people they initially thought were their brothers.

So untrue. No Igbo man has ever called me fake Igbo.

Leopard2A7:
Look at the western flank, whether they be Egun, Ijebu, Egba or whatever they accept being called Yoruba.


Look at the northern flank, whether they be Fulani, Kanuri or Hausa they all accept being called Hausa.


It is only when you come eastwards that you see people like Ishilove saying they are not Igbo but Ukwuani. You hear another one say he is not Igbo but Ikwerre. God help us in the eastern flank. I wonder what you'll will gain with all this minority you're claming. It has now changed from 'We SS' to 'We Anioma.' odiegwu ooo.


As for Ishilove and co, if a war breaks out in Nigeria today then you will understand how the rest of Nigeria sees you.

Thank God for guys like Ikechi1 & Ugomba.

A word is enough for the wise.

The question is are Fulani people Hausas? Is Fulani the same as Hausa? Accepting being called an Hausa doesn't make one an Hausa. Does it?

chukzyblingz:
So untrue. No Igbo man has ever called me fake Igbo.

It when they want to share positions or you are inspiring to go higher, but need their support .... That is when you will encounter such slights.

Pat Utomi had a good taste of that when he was campaigning

oweniwe:


It when they want to share positions or you are inspiring to go higher, but need their support .... That is when you will encounter such slights.

Pat Utomi had a good taste of that when he was campaigning

I'm not Igbo and will never claim to be one for any reason. but if they call any Anioma wannabe Igbo fake Igbo, he deserves it. that's to show Igbos know themselves when the chips are down

PabloAfricanus:
But you skipped these parts of my question
when did the peoples speaking "Owerri", "Isuama","Ngwa", "Idemili", "Awka", "Nri" etc. dialects spread across the landmass now known as SE Nigeria start using the phrases "onye igbo", "asusu igbo" and "ndi igbo" ?

I can definitely answer that for these different communities in question, the phrases "onye Igbo", "asusu Igbo" and "ndi Igbo" for referring to the current concept of "Igbo people" are all historically recent developments. The phrase "onye Igbo" was used in the past by a handful of communities, but had a different meaning that what it does today. The use of "Igbo" by Onitsha, Oru, etc. was in reference to the forest area, outside of their own settlement region. It did not mean an "Igbo person" as we understand it today. For the context of this discussion, "asusu Igbo" and "ndi Igbo" are all 20th century expressions. Most communities did not use the term.

PabloAfricanus:
When an Ngwa man found himself say in Aboh trading say in the 1750s, the term "onye igbo" used as an identifier would not be lost on him.

This is still incorrect, because Ngwa people had no knowledge of the term "Igbo" until colonial rule. The expression would have been lost on him as he would not use it to identify himself neither would he have known to call anyone else by that term.

PabloAfricanus:
When an Opobo missionary preacher came calling to say Owerri, the question "i na asu igbo?" or phrase "asusu igbo" would not be lost on the Owerri natives.

The Opobo missionaries using these phrases would make sense. It was already the turn of the 20th century (1900s) when missionaries finally made their way into the hinterland. CMS had managed to establish a headquarters in Owerri. So, the people in Owerri would have become familiar with the term "Igbo" by the time missionaries from Opobo made their way into the region.

The term "Igbo" was certainly not invented by Europeans. However, it's use for ethnic or self-identification is a 100% modern development, facilitated by Europeans initial and erroneous insistence of an Igbo ethnic community.

chukzyblingz:
The question is are Fulani people Hausas? Is Fulani the same as Hausa? Accepting being called an Hausa doesn't make one an Hausa. Does it?

A Fulani man is not an Hausa man but if you call him a Hausa man he will accept it and not start writing long epistles trying to prove to you that he is not Hausa. We usually call all of the Hausa up north and they don't shout about.

Ijebu language is sort of different from the core Yoruba dialect but if you call them Yoruba they accept it like that. It is only in the east where this one is trying to prove that he is Anioma and not Igbo. That one is trying to prove he is Ika and not Igbo. The other one is shouting at the top of his voice that he is Ikwerre and not Igbo. I smh for the east.

oweniwe:


She knows jor.....

The thing is... If you say you're Igbo from Anioma or Ukwuani.....

The Igbo ppl from the SE will start taunting that you're "fake igbo "

If an Anioma person want to start a venture or group and he go meet SE Igbo people for support, they will start asking him stupid questions about his origin.... Questions they would never ask an abia or ebonyi man.

In a nutshell, SE igbo see themselves as being superior to other igbo speaking people around yhem.

This kind of "Superior mentality " is what other igbo speaking people find repulsive... They would rather walk away than be dressed down or belittled by people they initially thought were their brothers.

Look, this is not true. The 'Superior mantallity' you talked about can also be found amongst Yorubas. Have you seen the Ijebu arguing with other Yorubas before yet when they are called Yoruba they accept it like that. We have a problem in the east. Honestly the westerners and even the far north appear to be smarter than the east where the wise men are supposed to come from because of people like Ishilove.

Leopard2A7:


A Fulani man is not an Hausa man but if you call him a Hausa man he will accept it and not start writing long epistles trying to prove to you that he is not Hausa. We usually call all of the Hausa up north and they don't shout about.

Ijebu language is sort of different from the core Yoruba dialect but if you call them Yoruba they accept it like that. It is only in the east where this one is trying to prove that he is Anioma and not Igbo. That one is trying to prove he is Ika and not Igbo. The other one is shouting at the top of his voice that he is Ikwerre and not Igbo. I smh for the east.

What are you saying in essence? that other tribes should give up their cultural heritage the same way 70% of Fulani people don't know how to speak their language?

chukzyblingz:
I'm not Igbo and will never claim to be one for any reason. but if they call any Anioma wannabe Igbo fake Igbo, he deserves it. that's to show Igbos know themselves when the chips are down

Just don't worry, if a war breaks out in Nigeria today then you will understand how the rest of Nigeria classify you. By that time we will see how far all this your shouting will take you.

Kaduna Nzeogu from Delta state led a coup against the north and they came for the Igbos. Nuff said.

chukzyblingz:
What are you saying in essence? that other tribes should give up their cultural heritage the same way 70% of Fulani people don't know how to speak their language?

That is not what I am saying. Even in the SE, we have differences in cultural practises and even the way we speak yet we are all called Igbos.

What is wrong if an Ishilove should say I am Igbo from Ukwuani just like Ikechukwu a prominent member of this forum will always say he is Delta Igbo? You can keep your culture and language.

The east don suffer oooo.
It is no longer 'We SS' it is now 'We Anioma', 'We Ukwuani', 'We Ikwerre.'
Na wa ooo.

Leopard2A7:


Just don't worry, if a war breaks out in Nigeria today then you will understand how the rest of Nigeria classify you. By that time we will see how far all this your shouting will take you.

Kaduna Nzeogu from Delta state led a coup against the north and they came for the Igbos. Nuff said.

How they see you doesn't define who you are. Kaduna Nzeogwu led a coup and an Igbo man benefited from the coup and the Igbos made a big deal out of the coup by making mockery of Hausas even in the North, that could be one of reasons they came for the Igbos.

The east don suffer oooo.
It is no longer 'We SS' it is now 'We Anioma', 'We Ukwuani', 'We Ikwerre.'
Na wa ooo.