postmann:




You miss me obviously. But I don't have time for you today.

I had enough of your time sulky boy.

postmann:


Marriage and parenthood are for people who are selfless and highly responsible. People who are sacrificial and devotional. People who can put others' needs ahead of theirs. People who can live for others.

Mr Shaq Fu, until you attain these attributes, you have no moral right to either father a child or make a woman yours.

Oh yeah! I believe you have the sole right to decide who is responsible, and who isn't right? I believe you know we humans are naturally selfish, and not everybody share your sense of selflessness, and sacrifice.

So tell me, what happens when a parent sacrifice more than the other, and what happens when that other don't feel the need to be selfless? Marriage isn't for everyone, and any who wants to father a kid, without getting married, should go right ahead. Societal norms and conventions are the major reasons why many marriages collapse today.

You mean when the child grows up, he will get to know it doesn't take a good dose of responsibility and selfsacrifice to become a father. Or if she's a girl, she can actual father 3 kids from 3 different men in the name of happiness which you mistook for selfishness and irresponsibility.

Tell me, how many responsible men/fathers do we have out there? I personally have seen and know many who grew up without a parent, and they're still very responsible, more than those who grew up with both parents, usually under false pretense and the likes.

And any girl who wants to father 3 kids out of wedlock, from 3 different men, should go right ahead, its her life, not yours, and what guarantee do you even have that she won't raise each and everyone of them, as good, moral and upright citizens?.

Thanks for once again displaying your acute sense of selfishness and irresponsibility. So you sow your wild oaths in the depth of a woman and when it's time for responsibility, you pass the baton to the mother and grandparents while you live foot lose and fancy free!!!!

Take a study on the ills of children raised by single parent.

Hai! We see what we want to see brother. You see selfishness, others see non conformist, while others may want to give me a head. Its purely personal.

And I never said anything about not accepting my responsibility, check my number 4 reason, and you'll know for sure.

ShaqFu:
Oh yeah! I believe you have the sole right to decide who is responsible, and who isn't right? I believe you know we humans are naturally selfish, and not everybody share your sense of selflessness, and sacrifice.

So tell me, what happens when a parent sacrifice more than the other, and what happens when that other don't feel the need to be selfless? Marriage isn't for everyone, and any who wants to father a kid, without getting married, should go right ahead. Societal norms and conventions are the major reasons why many marriages collapse today.

You sound like a man who makes his own laws: a chief trait of acute selfishness and unreliability. If you cannot uphold the laws of GOD or that of your forefathers that sets you up as someone untrustworthy and unstable. More like a man of chaos driven by lustful craving; one who lives for his own pleasure even to the detriment of others. A man who cannot live within the borders of religion or societal convention is automatically a recalcitrant pariah.

ShaqFu:

Tell me, how many responsible men/fathers do we have out there? I personally have seen and know many who grew up without a parent, and they're still very responsible, more than those who grew up with both parents, usually under false pretense and the likes.

Poor reason to support your lustful, lacklustre cravings.

ShaqFu:

And any girl who wants to father 3 kids out of wedlock, from 3 different men, should go right ahead, its her life, not yours, and what guarantee do you even have that she won't raise each and everyone of them, as good, moral and upright citizens?.

Even godless fools have better judgment than your sick retort.

ShaqFu:

Hai! We see what we want to see brother. You see selfishness, others see non conformist, while others may want to give me a head. Its purely personal.

And I never said anything about not accepting my responsibility, check my number 4 reason, and you'll know for sure.

Whatever rocks your world. I'm just concerned about the kids your lifestyle could raise and what a societal threat to decency they could constitute.

postmann:


You sound like a man who makes his own laws: a chief trait of acute selfishness and unreliability. If you cannot uphold the laws of GOD or that of your forefathers that sets you up as someone untrustworthy and unstable. More like a man of chaos driven by lustful craving; one who lives for his own pleasure even to the detriment of others. A man who cannot live within the boarders of religion or societal convention is automatically a recalcitrant pariah.

Indeed, if I don't make my own laws, who will make it for me? Society? Bleep society bro!. I don't conform to religious dogma and doctrines. Its my life, and I choose to live it however, and whichever way I see fit!.

Poor reason to support your lustful, lacklustre cravings.

Well, its your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.



[q
uote]Even godless fools have better judgment than your sick retort[/quote]Yea right, but the godful genius make a healthy living shagging their female church members, right? Preach on, preacher!.

Whatever rocks your world. I'm just concerned about the kids your lifestyle could raise and what a societal threat to decency they could constitute.

Well, if I could train and teach a girl who isn't my own kid, and make her Head Girl in her school that has a reputation of choosing Head Girls from science department, I wonder what I'll do with my own kid.

Food for thought bro.

ShaqFu:
Indeed, if I don't make my own laws, who will make it for me? Society? Bleep society bro!. I don't conform to religious dogma and doctrines. Its my life, and I choose to live it however, and whichever way I see fit!.


Well, its your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.



[q
uote]Even godless fools have better judgment than your sick retortYea right, but the godful genius make a healthy living shagging their female church members, right? Preach on, preacher!.

Whatever rocks your world. I'm just concerned about the kids your lifestyle could raise and what a societal threat to decency they could constitute. Well, if I could train and teach a girl who isn't my own kid, and make her Head Girl in her school that has a reputation of choosing Head Girls from science department, I wonder what I'll do with my own kid.

Food for thought bro.

I just liked your post. Now, can I have a good night rest?

postmann:

I just liked your post. Now, can I have a good night rest?

[size=22pt]NO![/size]

ShaqFu:
[size=22pt]NO![/size]

What persistence!!! It's Monday tomorrow, allow me some good night rest so we can have a healthier debate tomorrow.

Oya goodnight, Mr ShaqFu.

postmann:


What persistence!!! It's Monday tomorrow, allow me some good night rest so we can have a healthier debate tomorrow.

Oya goodnight, Mr ShaqFu.

Its evening, the weather is cool and nice, perfect time for a debate, don't you think?.

Mindfulness:
Where is TV01 when needed?

Please Mindfulness, you really need me to answer this sophomoric tripe?

Take point 1 for example - Peace of mind: I googled one of the role models mentioned - Davido - he recently had big palaver with his baby mama and her family. Ugly, embarrassing, and to be frank, low class, mud slinging. Access restrictions and concerns about how the child' welfare were cited.

How can a man of integrity and repute have peace of mind if he is not daily, actively and 100% involved in raising his offspring? Willful baby-daddyism is the height of irresponsibility, and at it's heart denies what it means to be a man and father.

A charter for producing bitter women and malformed children. A pox on all proselytisers of such.


TV

ShaqFu:
Its evening, the weather is cool and nice, perfect time for a debate, don't you think?.

You're right but, it's a perfect weather for better things...!
We'll kick it off tomorrow, mid-day preferably.

ShaqFu:
At what expense? The expense of not ever talking to the mother of your child? Or hating her more than you hate the devil? Come on bro, loosen up, no everyone desire to be trapped in the age old contract call 'marriage'.


On the contrary, when the child grows up, he'll get to know what it really mean for one to have happiness, devoid of society's expectations and the likes.

Remember, I never opined that the child will be left uncared for, or even abandoned, he still have his mother, and hey, he can visit his grand parents and spend time with them, and of course, his father.

Remember bro, marriage isn't for everyone.

Bro, I just like you (No homo). Typical of Nigerians, forcing marriage down people's neck since 504 B.C

Mindfulness:
Well, I don't share OP's views but I also wonder where you got your views from.



I diasgree. For a marriage to be successful each partner has to selfishly care about him- and herself IN THE FIRST PLACE. Selfish, in this context, does not mean that you disregard or disrespect your partner but that you make sure that you are so abundant, in emotional and pragmatic sense, that giving is a pleasure and not sacrifice.

A happy marriage does not feel like hard work and sacrifice, it feels easy and it flows (most of the time) and it is enriching and not sacrificial.




He doesn't want to make a woman his and this is what the thread is actually about. If you want to convince him of the privileges and advantages of marriage, then advertise for it instead of confirming to him the negative reasons why he doesn't want to get married.




It doesn't take any responibility and sacrifice to become a father. It takes a few minutes of pleasure. Being a father is a whole different thing. And no, I wouldn't tell my kids that I had to sacrifice anything to be a parent. I would tell them that it took love and that having them made my life more beautiful and not harder.

Again, too many people make marriage and parenthood look like it is some sort of experience that you need to have strength for, when all it takes for it to be successful is love, passion and joy.

I don't wake up in the morning, saying 'God, give me strength to sacrifice my sleep to make breakfast for my family.' I wake up and I look forward to having my family at one table. I enjoy it.




This is not what he said. He wants kids and not a relationship / marriage and with the way you people talk about marriage, I can understand him.



What about children raised in high-conflict marriages? Are they better off? Anyway, that's a different topic.

2 bottles of star and one plate of nkwobi for you.

ShaqFu, in as much as your points are weird and twisted , I get it. You do make some sense. In this life, there is no one box fits all. Most important thing is the welfare of the child(ren).

Neverquit:
ShaqFu, in as much as your points are weird and twisted , I get it. You do make some sense. In this life, there is no one box fits all. Most important thing is the welfare of the child(ren).

I agree. That's why its all important we know what's good for us, decide on it, and follow it to the fullest.

This is a good example of "arrant nonsense"!

Mindfulness:
Well, I don't share OP's views but I also wonder where you got your views from.

I'm sure postman will be back to reply you (double portion ), but I also find your views rather questionable.

Mindfulness:
I diasgree. For a marriage to be successful each partner has to selfishly care about him- and herself IN THE FIRST PLACE. Selfish, in this context, does not mean that you disregard or disrespect your partner but that you make sure that you are so abundant, in emotional and pragmatic sense, that giving is a pleasure and not sacrifice.

See evidence of your confusion - I mean, what does the bold even mean - especially in the context of marriage and family

Mindfulness:
A happy marriage does not feel like hard work and sacrifice, it feels easy and it flows (most of the time) and it is enriching and not sacrificial.

More confusion, are enriching and sacrificial mutually exclusive or diametrically opposed?

Mindfulness:
He doesn't want to make a woman his and this is what the thread is actually about. If you want to convince him of the privileges and advantages of marriage, then advertise for it instead of confirming to him the negative reasons why he doesn't want to get married.

No he doesn't want to "make a woman his", or himself hers. He wants to use her for his selfish ends. The OP is about satisfying his lusts and desires without thought to others involved or the longer term consequences.

And postmann' point was about "marriage and parenthood", which you artfully dribbled past

Mindfulness:
It doesn't take any responibility and sacrifice to become a father. It takes a few minutes of pleasure. Being a father is a whole different thing. And no, I wouldn't tell my kids that I had to sacrifice anything to be a parent. I would tell them that it took love and that having them made my life more beautiful and not harder.

Please note the difference 'twixt a father and a sperm donor. This love you keep prating on about that you have so far failed to define - as Carefree and as Mindfulness .

I have been sacrificing my sleep this past month, as for various reasons both my kids have not been sleeping well. Raising kids means I have less disposable income, less time to myself, to do the things I like to indulge in. It's a sacrifice, but one I consider well worth it. Indeed, a shorthand way of putting it is sacrifice = love. Refer to the bible verse John 3:16

Mindfulness:
Again, too many people make marriage and parenthood look like it is some sort of experience that you need to have strength for, when all it takes for it to be successful is love, passion and joy.

Yes, it may vary, but certain degrees of sacrifice, perseverance, patience and strength may all come to play in being married and raising children. It varies, but it is required. After all, if that was not the case OP wouldn't be trying his damnedest to absolve himself of the burden/responsibility would he?

Mindfulness:
I don't wake up in the morning, saying 'God, give me strength to sacrifice my sleep to make breakfast for my family.' I wake up and I look forward to having my family at one table. I enjoy it.

Ask the women here; https://www.nairaland.com/3187447/men-sex-life-after-vaginal if looking like an extra out of Spartacus after a cross-section, or having their down bellows stitched from one orifice to the other is not a sacrifice? Ask them how many enjoyed pregnancy, labour, delivery or the initial aftermath. Ask the men if not having the closeness, the intimacy or even your wife for a while is thoroughly enjoyable. Mindfulness talk true, you never born

Mindfulness:
This is not what he said. He wants kids and not a relationship / marriage and with the way you people talk about marriage, I can understand him.

What he wants is the fulfilment of his lusts and desires without consequence. The particulars of being male, without the burdens of manhood. And of course, it's women who will bear the brunt. Ask the women I cited above if after all they went through to deliver, it would be great for the father to be elsewhere knocking boots - ye I'm old - with a more nubile chick, instead of supporting her and caring for their child.

Mindfulness:
What about children raised in high-conflict marriages? Are they better off? Anyway, that's a different topic.

Standard false narrative, always compare a fatally flawed and simply bad idea with the worst possible outcome, and an outlier, of a good one.

Do try and have expansive convos, and not simply weave self-justification into your every utterance. Some real life experience would go a long way too .


TV

I have been sacrificing my sleep this past month, as for various reasons both my kids have not been sleeping well. Raising kids means I have less disposable income, less time to myself, to do the things I like to indulge in. It's a sacrifice, but one I consider well worth it. Indeed, a shorthand way of putting it is sacrifice = love. Refer to the bible verse John 3:16

This is sacrifice. Doing things to better your partner and kids even if it puts speedbumps in your path. This is greater than any form of self love for self love is selfish and seeks only its own gratification. Self love does not share and so cannot grow. True love comes from sharing your love to others.
Cc mindfulness.

5minsmadness:


This is sacrifice. Doing things to better your partner and kids even if it puts speedbumps in your path. This is greater than any form of self love for self love is selfish and seeks only its own gratification. Self love does not share and so cannot grow. True love comes from sharing your love to others.
Cc mindfulness.

Raising my kids does not feel like sacrifice to me.

TV01:
I'm sure postman will be back to reply you (double portion ), but I also find your views rather questionable.


See evidence of your confusion - I mean, what does the bold even mean - especially in the context of marriage and family


More confusion, are enriching and sacrificial mutually exclusive or diametrically opposed?


No he doesn't want to "make a woman his", or himself hers. He wants to use her for his selfish ends. The OP is about satisfying his lusts and desires without thought to others involved or the longer term consequences.

And postmann' point was about "marriage and parenthood", which you artfully dribbled past


Please note the difference 'twixt a father and a sperm donor. This love you keep prating on about that you have so far failed to define - as Carefree and as Mindfulness .

I have been sacrificing my sleep this past month, as for various reasons both my kids have not been sleeping well. Raising kids means I have less disposable income, less time to myself, to do the things I like to indulge in. It's a sacrifice, but one I consider well worth it. Indeed, a shorthand way of putting it is sacrifice = love. Refer to the bible verse John 3:16


Yes, it may vary, but certain degrees of sacrifice, perseverance, patience and strength may all come to play in being married and raising children. It varies, but it is required. After all, if that was not the case OP wouldn't be trying his damnedest to absolve himself of the burden/responsibility would he?


Ask the women here; https://www.nairaland.com/3187447/men-sex-life-after-vaginal if looking like an extra out of Spartacus after a cross-section, or having their down bellows stitched from one orifice to the other is not a sacrifice? Ask them how many enjoyed pregnancy, labour, delivery or the initial aftermath. Ask the men if not having the closeness, the intimacy or even your wife for a while is thoroughly enjoyable. Mindfulness talk true, you never born


What he wants is the fulfilment of his lusts and desires without consequence. The particulars of being male, without the burdens of manhood. And of course, it's women who will bear the brunt. Ask the women I cited above if after all they went through to deliver, it would be great for the father to be elsewhere knocking boots - ye I'm old - with a more nubile chick, instead of supporting her and caring for their child.


Standard false narrative, always compare a fatally flawed and simply bad idea with the worst possible outcome, and an outlier, of a good one.

Do try and have expansive convos, and not simply weave self-justification into your every utterance. Some real life experience would go a long way too .


TV

If having a family feels sacrificial to you, then so be it. I don't share this attitude and feeling. I enjoy having a family.

Mindfulness:


If having a family feels sacrificial to you, then so be it. I don't share this attitude and feeling. I enjoy having a family.

So you don't mind being a baby mama?

seconded!!