ministeriallist:
I have been attending Conventions of JWs. They always preach and teach love and peace. They never and will never teach hatred. Abeg don't teach us hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses. They're loving and simple people. Their love can be seen in their effort to share Bible message with people everywhere regardless of your status, religion, color or background. They will never hate anybody including the Police.
OP, abeg stop posting hate message.

rottennaija:


By your response, your are obviously a jw. I'm sure you have also seen the bunger videos. Truth is, is the videos promoting any hatred for police? Are the videos promoting police as tools used by Satan to attack witnesses? Have the Watchtower organisation been teaching that Satan uses police and other religious organisation to attack them?
Don't try to disgrace yourself here. You and I well know that the message we preach to people that are not JWs isn't the same message you preach about them in your Kingdom halls

rottennaija:


By your response, your are obviously a jw. I'm sure you have also seen the bunger videos. Truth is, is the videos promoting any hatred for police? Are the videos promoting police as tools used by Satan to attack witnesses? Have the Watchtower organisation been teaching that Satan uses police and other religious organisation to attack them?
Don't try to disgrace yourself here. You and I well know that the message we preach to people that are not JWs isn't the same message/view we preach/have about them in when we study about them

tempem:


Lol.. Spotted!! dying for front page to just defame, you'll soon drink it hot..

rottennaija:


What baffles me about us is, we blame others of what we do 100% of the time. We defame other religion, we say bad about their adherent, and yet we see nothing bad about it. Our publications shows it and we turn a blind eye to it.

tempem:

First of all.
Do you believe in the Bible?

rottennaija:


No. I don't

tempem:

Thanks for saving me the stress. Enjoy your day.

ChristianFreedo:
Jehovah’s Witnesses Promote Police Hatred at Summer Conventions

Jehovah's Witnesses use loyalty to promote hatred

https://www.the-newshub.com/general/jehovahs-witnesses-promote-police-hatred-at-summer-conventions

The annual summer conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses are often used to disseminate the latest teachings and doctrine for all members. The latest conventions have a new message of fear and hatred to invigorate members to greater donations and book sales.

The theme if the program is, “Remain Loyal to Jehovah”

The thought carried forward by every summer convention of Jehovah’ s Witnesses for the last one hundred and fifty years, is that the end of the world is coming next week and in order to be a survivor you must sell JWorg publications. How do we know this? Note the quote from the Watchtower July 2013:

When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings.

The greatest fear of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the “Great Tribulation” and for years members have been told that they will have great hardship during that time. Note the following quotes from the same article:

During the great tribulation, after all, organized false religion has been destroyed, former adherents will run for cover but will find no secure place to hide. (Luke 23:30;Rev. 6:15-17) Then, realizing that there is no escape from destruction, they will weep in desperation and ‘gnash their teeth’ in anger. As Jesus foretells in his prophecy about the great tribulation, at that dark moment, they “will beat themselves in lamentation.”*—Matt. 24:30;Rev. 1:7. Hence, those former adherents of false religious organizations will be destroyed during the final part of the great tribulation, Armageddon.—Mal. 4:1. As the end draws near, our enemies will intensify their fight against us, “but they will not prevail.” (Read Jeremiah 1:19.) Jesus foretold that the Christian congregation would come under attack.

So as we see according to JWorg doctrine all religions will be destroyed by the “authorities” and then JWorg will be the only ones left to be attacked. Who will do the attacking? Note this quote from the Watchtower September 2014:

…Christians will face tribulation in the form of physical persecution, perhaps at the instigation of religious or political leaders.
Will you continue to trust in Jehovah, knowing that he can deliver you from this wicked system of things and allow you to enjoy everlasting life under the rule of his Kingdom? You have every reason to do so and to face up to persecution courageously.—1 Pet. 5:8, 9.

The Watchtower Feb 2007 makes matters even clearer:

However, Jesus identified Satan as the criminal mastermind behind the corrupt world we live in. He called him “the ruler of this world.” (John 12:31;16:11) “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one,” wrote the apostle John. (1 John 5:19)….) He is the one whom mankind in general obeys. ….those obeying Satan, in effect, make him their god. Hence, Satan is “the god of this system of things.”

As you can see Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the entire world is ruled and controlled by Satan. They believe the governments, military, courts and local police are all “agents of Satan” that are being used to ultimately destroy all religion and then attack all Jehovah’s Witnesses which in turn will trigger Jehovah to exterminate every man, woman, and child on earth, that is not a Jehovah’s Witness. How do we know? Note the following Watchtower 02–5/1 quote:

By the end of that day of Jehovah, Satan’s world and its supporters will have been annihilated. First to go will be all false religion. Then Jehovah’s judgment will be expressed against Satan’s economic and political systems. Those who desired to serve Jehovah began to be cleansed of vestiges of false religion and commenced preaching the good news of the established Kingdom worldwide, a work to be completed before the end of this wicked system of things.—Matthew 24:14.

This summer the quotes and message above are reinforced by over forty self-produced videos from JWorg. Within these productions are six “bunker videos” in which members are shown fleeing from the police. The police are depicted as “agents of Satan” being used to torture, rape and murder faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses shortly before Jehovah brings Armageddon to annihilate all earthly authority. There is an actual screen capture at the beginning of this article.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are encouraged to have go-bags ready to flee to go into hiding bunkers to avoid police persecution. You can watch the video at this link:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz7ztagfBPE&feature=youtu.be

The end result is the police are presented as mindless Satanic controlled minions that have no greater purpose than to hurt innocent people trying to serve God. In this day and time where so much tension has been created, is this a positive message to be sending out to the public and members? For members that are mentally disturbed could this possible trigger them into taking negative actions toward the police?

Recently one member after viewing the video material was triggered into climbing a bridge in Australia and screaming about the ‘Great Tribulation” coming at any minute. See picture below.

Any group or religion that promotes negative images of police should think twice about their actions. Recently in Dallas, twelve officers paid a dear price for the promotion of police hatred. Officers of the law have a motto, “To protect and serve”. As members of the public, we should promote that image and encourage members of law enforcement to aspire to protect and serve as they work each day with the public. When Jehovah’s Witnesses use their Summer Conventions to show videos that openly show the police to be persecutors and working for Satan, it is at least considered in bad taste and at most might trigger a member with mental problems to attempt to take matters into their own hands.

Hatred and fear have no place in helping people to do good things. This summer Jehovah’s Witnesses are using hatred and fear to insult the good work that police do and possibly even put them in further danger.

We ask you the public to contact JW.org and express your outrage at any religion that would promote hatred against the police.

jworg:


@christianfreedo I took my time to read through your post and found it very interesting. Do you know why? You must really have hated the witnesses so much to be able to sit and spin all those lies and hate message about them. Please if the witnesses have wronged you so much please as a christian (as your name implies) forgive them.
My friend I am not going to try to explain to you or counter whatever you wrote as the facts are clear that Jehovah's witnesses are peace loving people (that fact is know world over) they don't impose their religion on others. They come to your door but won't force you to listen to them. If you tell them you are not interested they ask you if you would love to read their publication and if you say you are not interested in that also they thank you and leave.

Hatred and religious bigotry is the root of all the wars and genocide that has taken place on earth. But in all Jehovah's witnesses have and will always be neutral, they don't join the military and would rather go to jail than join in or support warfare. If all christian religious groups share the same ideology 80% of the worlds wars would be over.
So when you spread such a lie that the witnesses are teaching their members to hate the police, it saddens my heart to imagine you instead of doing something useful with the limited time you have you are using it to malign a group of people who owe you no ill will. Even if Jehovah's witnesses share beliefs that defers from yours, Tolerance means you should let them be and continue in the way u feel is right for you not going about spreading falsehood and instigating others including security agencies against them.

What you are doing is not new to the witnesses. In Russia for example the book "My book of bible stories" (Popularly called children's bible) is banned from distribution and marked as extremist publication, but the Question is how can that picture book used for teaching children the bible be extremist. The reason is because people like you who hate the witnesses so much and can't just let them be in peace instigated the government authorities with outright lies like the ones you are presently spinning out.
But has such people succeeded? Please ask Adolf Hitler who vowed to wipe Jehovah's witnesses from Germany, or ask kamuzu banda of Mozambique, Or starlin of the former soviet union. History has proved repeatedly that no matter what people do to Jehovah's witnesses, no matter how you hate them, they continue to progress and grow (please my friend read Isaiah 54:17)

Conclusively my friend my centuries ago a group of men did something i would suggest that you do also. The story is found in the book of acts of apostles 28:20-25. The Jews in Rome have heard a lot of stories about Paul and the Christians but what did they do. Read verse 21 they said we thought it proper to hear from you(Paul who is a christian) because every where this your sect is spoken against. After explaining to they the crowd was split some accepted the explanations while others did not. But the fact is that they have gotten the information from the horses mouth. In the same vein my friend if you want to get know about Jehovah's witnesses visit the official website of Jehovah's witnesses jw.org go to about us and click on Frequently asked questions. Am not asking u to agree with every explanation giving there but at list if you are quoting from the official site u will not be slandering the Jehovah's witnesses.

Have a nice day

ChristianFreedo:


Thanks for you mannered response. As you may have seen from the source, the news was not mine. The link to the news was also posted. The article was written outside the country. I simply shared it. Secondly, the article was an analysis of the implication of watchtower videos presented in that convention, published in their publication. It was clearly quoted, word for word from Watchtower publications. Besides, the article was not mine, so I could not have edited anything nor need to go to JW.org to obtain any information. The same information in JW.org is also presented in Watchtower library.

Also, I may ask the question, what have you learned from this response?



It should tell you that watchtower does not tell all the story. They only share what they will use to brag and elevate their religion as the best in the world, creating such feelings in the minds of JWs. In the case of Nazi, when I was young, I used to watch the video "Purple triangle" and "Faithful Under trial - Jehovah's witnesses under Nazi assault". I grew with the impression that only JWs were persecuted in Hitler Germany. But in my university days, a course maid, who was not a JW needed the video "Faithful Under trial - Jehovah's witnesses under Nazi assault" and I brought it to him. I was proud to brag that it was only Jehovah's witnesses that was persecuted by Hitler. He responded by saying that it was not JWs alone, but the Jews too.

That was the first time I heard of it. Just like millions of other JWs, you have been indoctrinated that it is only JWs that were persecuted. But it was not true.

Here is my point:

Watchtower uses a standard mind control technique on JWs. How?

1. They build trust in themselves and their information alone
2. They censor information that JWs have access to
3. They castigate anyone that disagree with them, calling them "apostate".
4. They create fear of those they call apostate in the minds of JWs

The result is that watchtower can afford to present information that may not be true to JWs, knowing fully well that most JWs trust them implicitly, they will never try to find out the information where true or not. For example, the watchtower study of 22 January, 2017, contain many of such spurious claim, knowing fully well that the rank and files will accept them, hook, line and sinker. At times, they even outrightly lie.

Let me give you a typical example:

The Watchtower has regularly lied about what it said prior to 1914, claiming it correctly predicted the occurrences of 1914, and has held to consistent teachings regarding that date. Until the 1930's, the Watchtower taught that:

• The time of the end commenced 1799
• Jesus presence commenced 1874
• Jesus' heavenly rule in 1878

"There are two important here that we must not confuse, but clearly differentiate, namely, the beginning of "the time of the end" and of "the presence of the Lord". "The time of the end" embraces a period from A.D. 1799, as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan's empire and the establishment of the kingdom of the Messiah. The time of the Lord's presence dates from 1874, as above stated. The latter period is within the first named, of course, and at the latter part of the period known as "the time of the end"." The Harp of God (1921) p.231

"The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord …" Studies in the Scriptures - The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord …" Studies in the Scriptures - The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239[/color]

Yet it is now stated that the Watchtower "anticipated" Jesus would receive power in 1914.

"By linking the "seven times" of Daniel 4:25 with "the times of the Gentiles", they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914." Watchtower 1998 Sep 15 p.15

"For over thirty years before that date and for half a century since, Jehovah's witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of "the appointed times of the nations" and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule. (Luke 21:24)" Watchtower 1966 Feb 15 p.103

Likewise, it was originally predicted that the end was to occur in 1914, yet now it is wrongfully stated that 1914 was the "start" of the end.

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226

"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8

Let me stop here, I am planning to write a full article on lies, deception of watchtower.


Even in this new history book, "God's Kingdom Rule", they watchtower is still being dishonest in it's history. They cannot truthfully present to JWs that untill 1930, they were still claiming that said Jesus was enthroned in heaven in 1878. That is because they had created in an impression in the minds of JWs that they had proclaim 1914 four decades in advance.


As a result of this standard method of mind control, the watchtower can afford to present information that is not true, knowing fully well that JWs will not bother to check its authenticity.

you can read more about this mind control technique the watchtower uses in this link
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php

jworg:


I wish to address some points you raised
1. You said Jehovah's witnesses distort facts to make it seem as if they are the only ones being persecuted. Interestingly you quoted two videos documentaries produced by Jehovah's witnesses. In those documentaries you quoted which I have also watched severally it was obvious that the witnesses spoke against the massacre of Jew's although the documentary was based on the lives of witnesses who stood firm against Nazi assault, it also spoke about thousands of Jew's who where massacred and how the mainstream churches kept mute ( http://tech.mit.edu/V118/N13/bvatican.13w.html) check the link given to read about the Vatican's apology to Jews. But in that very video an excerpt of a talk given by J F Rutherford called Hitler a man of unsound mind and criticized his action against the Jews. Presenting the facts of that video as u did is distorting facts. You may try and rewatch the video again so you can get the facts right.

2. You try to present the Jehovah's witnesses organization as not Presenting the facts to it's members. Your example was very fine. It is true that at a point in the history of Jehovah's witnesses believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878, and that the Kingdom would not be fully set up until October 1914 . The harvest would extend from 1874 to 1914 and would culminate in the gathering of the anointed to heaven. But contrary to what you said above the book God's Kingdom Rule in chapter 5 paragraphs 5-8 made it clear that that was how the bible students understood it then but the understanding has changed. Every Jehovah's witness believe that the truth of God's word is like the light of dawn that gets brighter and brighter gradually until the day is fully accomplished. So our understanding of God's word continues to change as we see more facts from the bible. So if you start quoting harp of God and other out of print books as your reference with regards to Jehovah's witnesses teaching,you would get things wrong.

3. Pertaining to that video at the convention that portrays some people in bunkers hiding away from the authorities was never meant to present the authorities in a hateful light to Jehovah's witnesses. The video was designed to strengthen the faith of all watching the video, preparing their minds on what to do when persecution come. Jesus did that to his followers he prepared their mind not to fight the authorities but to be willing to remain loyal to God almighty. Such persecutions is presently going on like you mentioned in Russia. And more on a global scale will take place.

Feel free to respond to my explanations but please after carefully reading and understanding what I meant so that we will get ahead.

And it is like you used to be one of Jehovah's witnesses when you where younger.
Have a nice day

ChristianFreedo:



Again, I most say thank you for your mannered response. You hardly find that among JWs, especially when their worship is question. That include elders and other high ranking members.

CLARIFICATION NEEDED

Let me try to clarify one important aspect, and I think I have tried to be consistent in my usage. 2 words, "the watchtower" and "Jehovah's witnesses".

When i refer to "Jehovah's Witnesses", I speak mostly of the ranks and files, those are the receiving end, they have no part in doctrinal, policies or direction formulation. These ones are main the elders, the ministerial servants, the ordinary publishers, even bethel member, CO and even some District (Regional) Overseers. Majority of them falls under the rank and files. They are the loyal followers, believers of everything that comes from the watchtower, loyalty parroting whatever is taught. These are the ones I refer to as Jehovah's Witnesses. They certainly have no choice than to follow.

When I refer to "the watchtower or watchtower", I speak about those directly involved in anything that happens in the organization. Governing Body is the head, the writers, policy makers, source of direction, doctrine makers, bible interpreters, those involved in almost any important issues with the organisation. They are often times referred to as "the organisation".

MY RESPONSE

1. @bolded statement, Jehovah's witnesses, in the context I have categorised them cannot distort fact. They simple parrot or echo what is presented to them in the publication by the watchtower. What I said is "the watchtower" distort facts, and often times lie. I also said, the watchtower does not tell the whole story, they only say what is favorable to them. "The watchtower" not "Jehovah's witnesses" in that context.

Secondly, it is true that the documentary was about Jehovah's witnesses. However, carry out a little survey and inquire a pool of say 50 Jehovah's witnesses how Hitler Germany targeted. Then you respond. But what will be obvious will be that the Zanist Regime target Jehovah's Witnesses. You will hardly hear of the Jews. What I mean is that, the watchtower has created the impression in the minds of JWs that they were the only group that Hitler targeted. Also, the figures speaks for themselves. 6m Jews to 1200 JWs, certainly, the Jews hard a more horrible experiences that 1200 JWs. But the impression created in the minds of JWs is that it is only the JWs that suffered, that was why I was taken by surprised when the my colleague in school responded that way. Certainly, if the watchtower had presented that fact rightly, JWs would have known and appreciated that what 1200 Jws went through under Hitler Germany pale insignificant to what 6m Jews when through.

However, what you may not have known is that watchtower is not really honest with JWs about what really happened in Germany. Just like the suffering of JWs in malawi, what the 1200 JWs went through was caused directly by the watchtower, through its president. I can't go into details at the moment, but you can google it (because watchtower will never present the real reason). However, I also appreciated that the catholic pope apologies for their role or lack of it, that caused the suffering of Jews, something the watchtower is so proud to do, even when they know well that the unjust treatment of JWs by hitler was directly caused by it president, J. F. Rutherford.


NOTE: WHAT THE WATCHTOWER NEVER SAID ABOUT THE ORDEAL OF JWS UNDER HITLER GERMANY
At first, Rutherford was in support of what happened to the Jews, he pledge allegiance to Hitler government. He wrote letters to Hitlers, criticising the Jews, praising Hitler's government, saying that the ideology of the watchtower aligns with the ideology of Nazi Germany. At some point, in a convention, some part of the Nazi anthem was incorporated into the song to be used to open the convention, German flash everywhere in the auditorium. He also accepted that the preaching will stop in Hitler's germany. All this was meant to appease Hitler so as to open and allow them access to the watchtower property which had been sized.

However, when Hitler's government would not release those properties, upon all the praises, Rutherford started attacking him, calling Hitler a man of unsound mind and criticized his action against the JWs, I can't remember him criticising the actions against, because at first he was in support of those actions. That is the only part watchtower can honestly present. But before that, there was a whole lot of events watchtower does not present and do not want JWs to know. Among them include Rutherford's letter to Hitler, his support of his actions, infact the watchtower had to look for pausible deniability, by claiming that Rutherford had sent a "personal letter" to Hitler, but not saying what the content of the letter was and in truth, it was not a personal letter. Rutherford was acting in his capacity as Watchtower president, his letter had watchtower letter head and was was from the watchtower.

Moreso, Just like Russel before him, everything that happened back then needed the express approval of watchtower president. He determine policies, doctrines, interpretations, properties to purchase, just about anything. Just like the governing body today, the watchtower president held absolute power and control, he determined everything that happened in the organization. So, watchtower trying to distance themselve by claiming that the letters was "a personal letter regarding the situation was written by J. F. Rutherford to Adolf Hitler" is nothing short of deceptive portrayal of what Rutherford and his letter really stood for. It is like saying a letter from the governing body signed for by the governing body is a personal letter from the governing body and not represent what the body stand for.

Fact is, a greater part of the suffering of JWs eithers in times of war, Malawi, Russian, Eritea or Nazi Germany was caused exclusively by their leaders, by their actions toward the authorities. However, the Watchtower cannot factually present these things to JWs, because one, it will require an apology from them and most importantly, a lot of JWs will not be following them blindly anymore, questions will be asked and the watchtower cannot afford that.

That is the most reasons they severely caution JWs against "apostate". Because the so called "apostate"came to know this things and couldn't follow them blindly anymore. So they had to be kicked out.

2. I didn't try to. I said the watchtower lies to Jehovah's witnesses. Also, I need to present fact, that was why I quoted the old out of print Publication.

Let me clarify. Anyone can believe anything, that believe can change and he believes something. The watchtower present them to JWs as light getting brighter, new understanding, as rendered today, "cherished understanding". Now, the point is not whether the understanding changes or not. The point is in lying about it. Now, Let me go a little deeper.

Before 1914, this is what the watchtower taught and believed.
• The time of the end commenced 1799
• Jesus presence commenced 1874
• Jesus' heavenly rule in 1878
• 1914 will be the end of the world and will be taken to heaven
After 1914, even till 1930, this doctrines were still taught by the watchtower to JWs and they believe.

So where is the lie?
Let the watchtower tell us.

"By linking the "seven times" of Daniel 4:25 with "the times of the Gentiles", they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914." Watchtower 1998 Sep 15 p.15

"For over thirty years before that date and for half a century since, Jehovah's witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of "the appointed times of the nations" and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule. (Luke 21:24)" Watchtower 1966 Feb 15 p.103

"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8

Those statement are clearly not true. They are outright lies. The only changed those dates, christ presence, christ enthronement and the start of the conclusion of things after 1930. Claiming that they had know 30 years in advance is clearly not true, but meant to create the impression in the minds of JWs that they had been accurate in their time prophecy.

But notice again, I am quoting Watchtower 1998, Awake 1973, watctower 1966. This were all publication that where published before the God's Kingdom Rule book of 2014. However, the watchtower had know that many ex-jws had gone on to show and prove that they had not been truthful to JWs about this 1914 teaches and other related teaches, they had to include that part in the History book "God's Kingdom Rule"

The truth is, this history had been there for more than 100 years, why present them now? So while it is true that they later admitted this dates, and then use the light getting brighter teaching. It only came as a result of the fact that the "apostate" had gone on to show and show all this dates to the world, so the watchtower had not other choice but to include them in the Kingdom Rule book.

Even at that, even in the landmark article "Birth of the nations" as can be seen in Par 7, Chp 5 of God's Kingdom Rule, it is not still admitted that they were still teaching that Christ Presence began in 1874, and as at 1930, they were still teaching them. But most importantly, the kingdom rule book used the strong word "Convincing scriptural evidence" in the landmark article "Birth of the nations", 1925 watchtower to show that Christ began to reigned in 1914.

If the prove was so convincing, scriptural, why discard them today? more than 80 years after? What was so convincing about them that you do not teach them today? The watchwer will say, because light was getting brighter. if it is so, then the evidence does not qualify to be called "Convincing scriptural evidence", unless you intend to give a wrong impression.

NOTE: The book "Birth of the nations", 1925 watchtower can be found online, I just downloaded a PDF searchable copy.

3. Concerning the video, someone has to talk some sense to the watchtower. They need to know that the world is bad, your message can have a bad effect, especially for people mentality unstable. Secondly, actions like this (castigating authority, painting them as to be used by satan) was what caused JWs to suffer in countries like Russian, Germany and malawi. It is why they are labeled extremist in a country like Russian. You are actually preaching around, telling people of that country that some foreign government will over throw their government. Do not forget that these people have their own religion, and I am not sure that their worship which they regard highly teaches them so. So, they will definitely brand you an extremist, because it is terrorist that goes around brainwashing people, telling them how bad the government of the day is and what they will do to overthrow that government and make life better.

How can overzealous government such videos and certain publicans as extreme (extremist)? How can you show the state apparatus, used to maintain law and order as tools used by satan to harm "God's people". That was the same way to use to preach, accusing churches of all sort of things and when these complain to governmental authority, the watchtwer in turn will accused churches of instigating persecution. This was exactly what Russel did that caused Hitler to go after JWs in Germany.

4. I said the watchtower is not honest with JWs concerning event, even when translating and interpreting the bible. That they distort truth and fact. They have created in the minds of JWs that they were some sort governing body in Jerusalem, where christians of the first century were organised and receive direction from. Recently, they have been some attempt to include Apostle Paul among those they referred to as the governing body, and JWs will believe that. I am not going to say much, but go through the pages of the book below, and ascertain for yourself if such assession is true. The book is crisis of conscience, from former governing body member Raymond Frank, Cousin of former watchtower president Fred Frank, who translated the NWT of 1950 and 1986.


5. Reading through the legal section of the official website of JWs, it will appear that it is only JWs that are targeted in Russia by the government. That is the impression the watchtower keeps in the minds of JWs as it is published in the watchtower publications. That was the impression I had until few days ago, that I decided to check out for myself.

You can compare it yourself here.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/

However, compare it with what is obtained in the news media.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/july/russia-ban-evangelism-effect.html

https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2016/07/4555259/

So, when the so-called apostate says that watchtower distort information and sometimes lie, you may want to confirm if that is so or is one of those "apostate" lies.


Apart from some few emotional outburst of those that lost everything as a result of leaving the watchtower organisation, from my investigation, the "apostate" appears to be more truthful than the dreaded watchtower.

ChristianFreedo:



Again, I most say thank you for your mannered response. You hardly find that among JWs, especially when their worship is question. That include elders and other high ranking members.

CLARIFICATION NEEDED

Let me try to clarify one important aspect, and I think I have tried to be consistent in my usage. 2 words, "the watchtower" and "Jehovah's witnesses".

When i refer to "Jehovah's Witnesses", I speak mostly of the ranks and files, those are the receiving end, they have no part in doctrinal, policies or direction formulation. These ones are main the elders, the ministerial servants, the ordinary publishers, even bethel member, CO and even some District (Regional) Overseers. Majority of them falls under the rank and files. They are the loyal followers, believers of everything that comes from the watchtower, loyalty parroting whatever is taught. These are the ones I refer to as Jehovah's Witnesses. They certainly have no choice than to follow.

When I refer to "the watchtower or watchtower", I speak about those directly involved in anything that happens in the organization. Governing Body is the head, the writers, policy makers, source of direction, doctrine makers, bible interpreters, those involved in almost any important issues with the organisation. They are often times referred to as "the organisation".

MY RESPONSE

1. @bolded statement, Jehovah's witnesses, in the context I have categorised them cannot distort fact. They simple parrot or echo what is presented to them in the publication by the watchtower. What I said is "the watchtower" distort facts, and often times lie. I also said, the watchtower does not tell the whole story, they only say what is favorable to them. "The watchtower" not "Jehovah's witnesses" in that context.

Secondly, it is true that the documentary was about Jehovah's witnesses. However, carry out a little survey and inquire a pool of say 50 Jehovah's witnesses how Hitler Germany targeted. Then you respond. But what will be obvious will be that the Zanist Regime target Jehovah's Witnesses. You will hardly hear of the Jews. What I mean is that, the watchtower has created the impression in the minds of JWs that they were the only group that Hitler targeted. Also, the figures speaks for themselves. 6m Jews to 1200 JWs, certainly, the Jews hard a more horrible experiences that 1200 JWs. But the impression created in the minds of JWs is that it is only the JWs that suffered, that was why I was taken by surprised when the my colleague in school responded that way. Certainly, if the watchtower had presented that fact rightly, JWs would have known and appreciated that what 1200 Jws went through under Hitler Germany pale insignificant to what 6m Jews when through.

However, what you may not have known is that watchtower is not really honest with JWs about what really happened in Germany. Just like the suffering of JWs in malawi, what the 1200 JWs went through was caused directly by the watchtower, through its president. I can't go into details at the moment, but you can google it (because watchtower will never present the real reason). However, I also appreciated that the catholic pope apologies for their role or lack of it, that caused the suffering of Jews, something the watchtower is so proud to do, even when they know well that the unjust treatment of JWs by hitler was directly caused by it president, J. F. Rutherford.


NOTE: WHAT THE WATCHTOWER NEVER SAID ABOUT THE ORDEAL OF JWS UNDER HITLER GERMANY
At first, Rutherford was in support of what happened to the Jews, he pledge allegiance to Hitler government. He wrote letters to Hitlers, criticising the Jews, praising Hitler's government, saying that the ideology of the watchtower aligns with the ideology of Nazi Germany. At some point, in a convention, some part of the Nazi anthem was incorporated into the song to be used to open the convention, German flash everywhere in the auditorium. He also accepted that the preaching will stop in Hitler's germany. All this was meant to appease Hitler so as to open and allow them access to the watchtower property which had been sized.

However, when Hitler's government would not release those properties, upon all the praises, Rutherford started attacking him, calling Hitler a man of unsound mind and criticized his action against the JWs, I can't remember him criticising the actions against, because at first he was in support of those actions. That is the only part watchtower can honestly present. But before that, there was a whole lot of events watchtower does not present and do not want JWs to know. Among them include Rutherford's letter to Hitler, his support of his actions, infact the watchtower had to look for pausible deniability, by claiming that Rutherford had sent a "personal letter" to Hitler, but not saying what the content of the letter was and in truth, it was not a personal letter. Rutherford was acting in his capacity as Watchtower president, his letter had watchtower letter head and was was from the watchtower.

Moreso, Just like Russel before him, everything that happened back then needed the express approval of watchtower president. He determine policies, doctrines, interpretations, properties to purchase, just about anything. Just like the governing body today, the watchtower president held absolute power and control, he determined everything that happened in the organization. So, watchtower trying to distance themselve by claiming that the letters was "a personal letter regarding the situation was written by J. F. Rutherford to Adolf Hitler" is nothing short of deceptive portrayal of what Rutherford and his letter really stood for. It is like saying a letter from the governing body signed for by the governing body is a personal letter from the governing body and not represent what the body stand for.

Fact is, a greater part of the suffering of JWs eithers in times of war, Malawi, Russian, Eritea or Nazi Germany was caused exclusively by their leaders, by their actions toward the authorities. However, the Watchtower cannot factually present these things to JWs, because one, it will require an apology from them and most importantly, a lot of JWs will not be following them blindly anymore, questions will be asked and the watchtower cannot afford that.

That is the most reasons they severely caution JWs against "apostate". Because the so called "apostate"came to know this things and couldn't follow them blindly anymore. So they had to be kicked out.

2. I didn't try to. I said the watchtower lies to Jehovah's witnesses. Also, I need to present fact, that was why I quoted the old out of print Publication.

Let me clarify. Anyone can believe anything, that believe can change and he believes something. The watchtower present them to JWs as light getting brighter, new understanding, as rendered today, "cherished understanding". Now, the point is not whether the understanding changes or not. The point is in lying about it. Now, Let me go a little deeper.

Before 1914, this is what the watchtower taught and believed.
• The time of the end commenced 1799
• Jesus presence commenced 1874
• Jesus' heavenly rule in 1878
• 1914 will be the end of the world and will be taken to heaven
After 1914, even till 1930, this doctrines were still taught by the watchtower to JWs and they believe.

So where is the lie?
Let the watchtower tell us.

"By linking the "seven times" of Daniel 4:25 with "the times of the Gentiles", they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914." Watchtower 1998 Sep 15 p.15

"For over thirty years before that date and for half a century since, Jehovah's witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of "the appointed times of the nations" and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule. (Luke 21:24)" Watchtower 1966 Feb 15 p.103

"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8

Those statement are clearly not true. They are outright lies. The only changed those dates, christ presence, christ enthronement and the start of the conclusion of things after 1930. Claiming that they had know 30 years in advance is clearly not true, but meant to create the impression in the minds of JWs that they had been accurate in their time prophecy.

But notice again, I am quoting Watchtower 1998, Awake 1973, watctower 1966. This were all publication that where published before the God's Kingdom Rule book of 2014. However, the watchtower had know that many ex-jws had gone on to show and prove that they had not been truthful to JWs about this 1914 teaches and other related teaches, they had to include that part in the History book "God's Kingdom Rule"

The truth is, this history had been there for more than 100 years, why present them now? So while it is true that they later admitted this dates, and then use the light getting brighter teaching. It only came as a result of the fact that the "apostate" had gone on to show and show all this dates to the world, so the watchtower had not other choice but to include them in the Kingdom Rule book.

Even at that, even in the landmark article "Birth of the nations" as can be seen in Par 7, Chp 5 of God's Kingdom Rule, it is not still admitted that they were still teaching that Christ Presence began in 1874, and as at 1930, they were still teaching them. But most importantly, the kingdom rule book used the strong word "Convincing scriptural evidence" in the landmark article "Birth of the nations", 1925 watchtower to show that Christ began to reigned in 1914.

If the prove was so convincing, scriptural, why discard them today? more than 80 years after? What was so convincing about them that you do not teach them today? The watchwer will say, because light was getting brighter. if it is so, then the evidence does not qualify to be called "Convincing scriptural evidence", unless you intend to give a wrong impression.

NOTE: The book "Birth of the nations", 1925 watchtower can be found online, I just downloaded a PDF searchable copy.

3. Concerning the video, someone has to talk some sense to the watchtower. They need to know that the world is bad, your message can have a bad effect, especially for people mentality unstable. Secondly, actions like this (castigating authority, painting them as to be used by satan) was what caused JWs to suffer in countries like Russian, Germany and malawi. It is why they are labeled extremist in a country like Russian. You are actually preaching around, telling people of that country that some foreign government will over throw their government. Do not forget that these people have their own religion, and I am not sure that their worship which they regard highly teaches them so. So, they will definitely brand you an extremist, because it is terrorist that goes around brainwashing people, telling them how bad the government of the day is and what they will do to overthrow that government and make life better.

How can overzealous government such videos and certain publicans as extreme (extremist)? How can you show the state apparatus, used to maintain law and order as tools used by satan to harm "God's people". That was the same way to use to preach, accusing churches of all sort of things and when these complain to governmental authority, the watchtwer in turn will accused churches of instigating persecution. This was exactly what Russel did that caused Hitler to go after JWs in Germany.

4. I said the watchtower is not honest with JWs concerning event, even when translating and interpreting the bible. That they distort truth and fact. They have created in the minds of JWs that they were some sort governing body in Jerusalem, where christians of the first century were organised and receive direction from. Recently, they have been some attempt to include Apostle Paul among those they referred to as the governing body, and JWs will believe that. I am not going to say much, but go through the pages of the book below, and ascertain for yourself if such assession is true. The book is crisis of conscience, from former governing body member Raymond Frank, Cousin of former watchtower president Fred Frank, who translated the NWT of 1950 and 1986.


5. Reading through the legal section of the official website of JWs, it will appear that it is only JWs that are targeted in Russia by the government. That is the impression the watchtower keeps in the minds of JWs as it is published in the watchtower publications. That was the impression I had until few days ago, that I decided to check out for myself.

You can compare it yourself here.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/

However, compare it with what is obtained in the news media.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/july/russia-ban-evangelism-effect.html

https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2016/07/4555259/

So, when the so-called apostate says that watchtower distort information and sometimes lie, you may want to confirm if that is so or is one of those "apostate" lies.


Apart from some few emotional outburst of those that lost everything as a result of leaving the watchtower organisation, from my investigation, the "apostate" appears to be more truthful than the dreaded watchtower.

jworg:


My beloved friend I read through your intresting post, you tried alot but I would assure you that those informations are a combination of half truths mixed with lies and outright lies.

It is not easy to give a mannered response to someone who is saying something you are convined is not true about you. But as Jehovah's witnesses, we are trained to give well mannered response. In the public speaking workbook used by Jehovah's witnesses titled Benefit from theocratic ministry school education study 24 page 106 under the heading "choice of words" it says : " What do you need to do?Use words that show respect and give evidence of kindness, that are readily understood, that impart variety to your speech, and that convey appropriate vigor and feeling. Use words in a way that conforms to the rules of grammar" so my response to you was a product of the training i have received in the theocratic ministry school for about 25 years now. But if a witness allow emotions to take over when giving a reply to someone who oppose his or her belief please forgive him he is human, but take note that is not what we are trained to do.

Now I want to answer some of the points you raised but I will give my reply in trenches
1. You said that the watchtower publications lied/hide information about what they used to believe that christ presence started in 1874. Then I quoted the God's Kingdom Rule book chap 5 and you told me that it is because the apostates have brought out the information that is why it was brought out. Ok what about what was written in the book proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Published in 1993 page 631-632 also admitted that 1874 used to be seen as the beginning of christ presence and the facts they based their statements on were all recorded.
There are no secreats among Jehovah's witnesses as u claim or try to claim. Even just last sunday at our meetings a new understanding to a bible teaching we have held for years was presented and it made more sense(as to why there are changes in doctrine that is for another day) but what I want you to know is that for every Jehovah's witness who wants to know the information are out there and unbaised.

2. You said that the sufferings of Jehovah's witnesses is caused by watchtower. But let us look at some particular cases. In Germany what was the issue? Was there a trade deal between the witnesses and the Nazis that went sour? No. History has it that each witness has an option to avoid the concentration camps and harsh treatment if they sign a document to renounce their faith. They were required to greet "heil hitler" and join the military efforts to become soldiers. Those witnesses who suffered persecution and death never went to court and said that watchtower said.... No but based on their bible trained consience they can not greet hiel hitler meaning salvation belongs to hitler while they know that only God almighty can give salvation. Their bible trained consiece also helped them know that the bible says you must not kill. So they cannot take up arms or carry out activities that support war.
In Eritrea 4 young witness men have been in detention since 1993 or thereabout for refusing to join the military. In south korea young witness men are sent to Jail continuously for refusing military service. Instead the witnesses applied for alternative civilian service but were refused that. Who caused it on those witnesses ( go to google 1st century christians and military service) early christians in the first century did not partake in the military also check for the facts. Jehovah's witnesses do not swear aligance to an organization but to God's Kingdom.

There are other points i would like to touch but will do that at other time. Expecially the aspect of the declaration of faith that was sent to Hitler. I would give u unbaised information and facts about it.

The reason why the watchtower publications warn Jehovah's witnesses not to visit apostate sites is not because it has any truth to offer, but it tries to present lies and distorted facts as truth, then they make it seem as if The organization is hiding some details from the members. That was the same tactis Satan uses on Eve at the garden of eden. He presented God as a lier and one who was hidding something from adam. So when a witness who does not read wide see such information they will be carried away to think it is the truth.
like you rightly admitted in the last paragraph of your write up, those information passed by these former witnesses are "emotional outburst of those that lost everything as a result of leaving the watchtower organisation " they would do everything they can to discredit the organization even spining out outright lie (like Rutherford wrote a letter to Hitler and pledges aligence to him prove?) (smiling)
You have challenged me to go and bring out my old worn library of research information.
Let me tell you a little about my self. My parents were Jehovah's witnesses but at a point I questioned if what they teach is the truth. It sent me into research i searched outside the publications of Jehovah's witnesses, in unbaised materials like encyclopedias and bible commentaries as I search I came to see that the teachings are true. Let me give u some examples.
Download this book the two babylons by Rev alexander hislop. After reading true that book and you are a honest person you would no longer celebrate christmass, new year, or even visit santa claus. There are more things i discovered but time will not allow me now.
Feel free to respond to the reply that i made so we can have a way forward

jworg:


My beloved friend I read through your intresting post, you tried alot but I would assure you that those informations are a combination of half truths mixed with lies and outright lies.

It is not easy to give a mannered response to someone who is saying something you are convined is not true about you. But as Jehovah's witnesses, we are trained to give well mannered response. In the public speaking workbook used by Jehovah's witnesses titled Benefit from theocratic ministry school education study 24 page 106 under the heading "choice of words" it says : " What do you need to do?Use words that show respect and give evidence of kindness, that are readily understood, that impart variety to your speech, and that convey appropriate vigor and feeling. Use words in a way that conforms to the rules of grammar" so my response to you was a product of the training i have received in the theocratic ministry school for about 25 years now. But if a witness allow emotions to take over when giving a reply to someone who oppose his or her belief please forgive him he is human, but take note that is not what we are trained to do.

Now I want to answer some of the points you raised but I will give my reply in trenches
1. You said that the watchtower publications lied/hide information about what they used to believe that christ presence started in 1874. Then I quoted the God's Kingdom Rule book chap 5 and you told me that it is because the apostates have brought out the information that is why it was brought out. Ok what about what was written in the book proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Published in 1993 page 631-632 also admitted that 1874 used to be seen as the beginning of christ presence and the facts they based their statements on were all recorded.
There are no secreats among Jehovah's witnesses as u claim or try to claim. Even just last sunday at our meetings a new understanding to a bible teaching we have held for years was presented and it made more sense(as to why there are changes in doctrine that is for another day) but what I want you to know is that for every Jehovah's witness who wants to know the information are out there and unbaised.

2. You said that the sufferings of Jehovah's witnesses is caused by watchtower. But let us look at some particular cases. In Germany what was the issue? Was there a trade deal between the witnesses and the Nazis that went sour? No. History has it that each witness has an option to avoid the concentration camps and harsh treatment if they sign a document to renounce their faith. They were required to greet "heil hitler" and join the military efforts to become soldiers. Those witnesses who suffered persecution and death never went to court and said that watchtower said.... No but based on their bible trained consience they can not greet hiel hitler meaning salvation belongs to hitler while they know that only God almighty can give salvation. Their bible trained consiece also helped them know that the bible says you must not kill. So they cannot take up arms or carry out activities that support war.
In Eritrea 4 young witness men have been in detention since 1993 or thereabout for refusing to join the military. In south korea young witness men are sent to Jail continuously for refusing military service. Instead the witnesses applied for alternative civilian service but were refused that. Who caused it on those witnesses ( go to google 1st century christians and military service) early christians in the first century did not partake in the military also check for the facts. Jehovah's witnesses do not swear aligance to an organization but to God's Kingdom.

There are other points i would like to touch but will do that at other time. Expecially the aspect of the declaration of faith that was sent to Hitler. I would give u unbaised information and facts about it.

The reason why the watchtower publications warn Jehovah's witnesses not to visit apostate sites is not because it has any truth to offer, but it tries to present lies and distorted facts as truth, then they make it seem as if The organization is hiding some details from the members. That was the same tactis Satan uses on Eve at the garden of eden. He presented God as a lier and one who was hidding something from adam. So when a witness who does not read wide see such information they will be carried away to think it is the truth.
like you rightly admitted in the last paragraph of your write up, those information passed by these former witnesses are "emotional outburst of those that lost everything as a result of leaving the watchtower organisation " they would do everything they can to discredit the organization even spining out outright lie (like Rutherford wrote a letter to Hitler and pledges aligence to him prove?) (smiling)
You have challenged me to go and bring out my old worn library of research information.
Let me tell you a little about my self. My parents were Jehovah's witnesses but at a point I questioned if what they teach is the truth. It sent me into research i searched outside the publications of Jehovah's witnesses, in unbaised materials like encyclopedias and bible commentaries as I search I came to see that the teachings are true. Let me give u some examples.
Download this book the two babylons by Rev alexander hislop. After reading true that book and you are a honest person you would no longer celebrate christmass, new year, or even visit santa claus. There are more things i discovered but time will not allow me now.
Feel free to respond to the reply that i made so we can have a way forward

5. Since the “apostate” present information that is not true and outright lies about watchtower organization and “would do everything they can to discredit the organization even spining out outright lie”. Let me allow you to analyze the information presented in the watchtower November, 2016, page 28, paragraph 2. It was studied on Sunday, I believed you enjoyed, felt proud of the study.

Let’s find out how truthful the information presented in the paragraph is. I will not ask any question on it. I will wait for your response, before asking any question.

This is the paragraph under scrutiny, with the underlined.

“THE FALL OF BABYLON”
Many years before World War I (1914-1918), Charles Taze Russell and other Bible Students realized that Christendom was not teaching the truth from the Bible. So they wanted nothing to do with false religion. Even in 1879, Zion’s Watch Tower said that every church that claims to be a loyal bride to Christ but that actually supports the governments is really part of Babylon the Great, which the Bible calls a prostitute.—Read Revelation 17:1, 2.

I had learnt from experience to double check information presented in the watchtower before believing it, especially regarding its history, I google and downloaded the said publication in searchable PDF. Below is the article the watchtower referred to. For sake of not accusing me of presenting half information, I am pasting the whole article entitled, “Babylon is Fallen”. I have also underlined the section the watchtower referred to (to make it easy for readers).

*******1879, Zion’s Watch Tower**********

Babylon is Fallen.
"Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Rev. 18:2.

The word "Babylon" means confusion. It is here used symbolically, since the literal city by that name was at the time of this writing "a mass of ruins." The literal city was doubtless a figure or type of the symbolic city, and much of the threatening of Isa. 21, and Jer. 50, and 51, is unquestionably of two-fold application and fulfillment: first, upon literal Babylon, the type and more fully upon symbolic Babylon, the antitype. Both are called "Babylon the Great." Both rule over the kings of the earth. The literal was built upon the river Euphrates and derived wealth and splendor from this source. "O thou that dwellest upon many waters." Jer. 51:13. The symbolic is said to be "seated upon many waters--peoples, nations &c.," from which it derives its support.

The fall of the literal was by the turning aside of the waters, and the drying up of the Euphrates. And the symbolic river Euphrates is said, in connection "with the fall of symbolic Babylon, to be dried up." Rev. 16:12.

Each is compared to a stone cast into the water. "Thus shall Babylon sink and shall not rise." Jer. 51:64. "Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down." Rev. 18:21.

Now let us inquire what is represented by the symbol. As originally planted by Jesus and his apostles the church was a "chaste virgin espoused to one husband, even Christ." For some time she maintained her purity and suffered persecution of the world, but gradually became enamored of the world and the prospects it offered, and finally united with it, constituting the system of Papacy. This system church, living in union with the world constitutes "the abomination"--"the harlot," and the name Babylon, meaning confusion is applicable because the world is called a beast and the church a woman. This then was the union of the woman and the beast which is expressly forbidden in type. (Lev. 18:23. "It is confusion." We feel sure that we have the name Babylon properly applied since in Rev. 17 we see the church seated on the beast--i.e. supported by and controlling the world. "And in her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and abomination of the earth." Rev. 17:5.

The following verse shows that in her apostate condition she was Anti-- (against) Christ, for she was drunken with the blood of the saints and of the martyrs of Jesus. Mark me--I do not say that all the members of the Catholic church became abominations to the Lord, but that the Papacy as a SYSTEM--church-state organization is here pictured. And we must go further and implicate, (not the individual members, but the church systems) other churches united to the Empires of earth. Every church claiming to be a chaste virgin espoused to Christ, but in reality united to and supported by the world (beast) we must condemn as being in scripture language a harlot church. To illustrate: The Episcopal is the established church of England--the Greek church, of Russia --the Presbyterian church, of Scotland--the Lutheran, of Norway, &c. The true church composed of all who love the Lord Jesus in truth and sincerity whether in or out of these organizations, who wait for the coming Bridegroom, he recognizes; but she that is joined to another he calls an abomination--a harlot. These are off-shoots from the Papacy. She was a harlot and the mother of harlots and we mean no disrespect to fellow christians when we term their church systems the daughters, and therefore parts of the system of confusion--Babylon.

But you will say--Our churches in this country particularly, are not parts of the Babylon, because they are not church-state organizations. Wait a moment; Let us inquire: Is our church--Baptist, Methodist or which ever, is it a chaste virgin or not? Does she live with the world, or separate from the world? We believe that every true church member loyal to the coming Bridegroom, feels with shame and pain that the nominal church is unfaithful to her espousal and is locked in the embrace of the world.

She still bears the name of Christ and claims to be his. She claims to be desirous of knowing and doing what would please the Lord, but actually studies and does what will please the world. She has a form of Godliness but really is far from God-like-ness. Who studies as carefully, or obeys more implicitly the world's dictates as to propriety of dress and etiquette than professors of Christianity? Everything is done with an eye to the world's approval. The sermon must be such as will please and entertain carnally minded men of the world, for they give tone and character and backing to the organization. These must be trustees and stewards and be made to feel an interest in her and give largely of their wealth. No matter how obtained, wealth she wants and wealth she must have. She has commenced the adaptation of herself to the ideas of the world, and cannot go back. She felt that she must erect a grand church building with the tallest spire, and that every inch she added to the spire and every dollar added to the cost of building would help draw to her bosom some of the world's children with bags of gold. She lives luxuriously with the world, and is supported by the world. Her homage to the world becomes almost a necessity when it is remembered that he really built the temple of fashion in which she professes to worship God but really bows to mammon. The world though caressing and flattering, wants the interest on the church mortgage, and if the church cannot think of a way to get it scripturally, he has plans for festivals, grab games and church theatricals. She hesitates for a moment only, to thus disgrace and prostitute herself. The money must be raised. It would be useless to ask the Lord for it since she disregarded his wishes by contracting the debt. Necessity knows no law, and though the pure ones rich in faith, protest and weep for her condition, yet they are the poor of this world, and the poor of the worldly church seldom occupy a church office of any influence, and their protests and entreaties are drowned by the exultant songs and shouts of the gay company who "glory in their shame." Enjoying the world's smile they exclaim: "We are rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing, knowing not that they are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked." Rev. 3:17.

"O that thou hadst known even in this thy day, the things which belong to thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes."

Yes we believe the nominal church of to-day to be the Babylon of our text, which falls. It commenced to be a condition of confusion with the mother and it continues to the end of the age. The church, anxious for numbers and money, has offered every inducement to get members, particularly those of wealth. Socials are arranged at which the wives and daughters are expected (even though followers of Jesus) to so dress and act as to decoy and captivate worldly and carnally minded men. Soon such a one is called brother and urged to join the church. At first he feels shocked at being asked to become a church member. He has heard of people being converted, having a change of heart &c., but soon settles down to the thought that he is as good as others, that morality is the needed thing, and finding it to be a passport to the best society and an aid to business he does not long refuse. Now he is a member of church in good and regular standing; perhaps begins to like and feel interested in church affairs; becomes an officer in the Sunday school. Now he is looked upon as one of the principal R45 : page 2 members, a bell sheep, a representative of the flower of the flock. Who shall measure the baneful influence of this wolf in sheep's clothing upon the true sheep and lambs, supplanting truths with errors, ignoring true faith and trust and fostering and encouraging pride and worldliness, to say nothing of the effects upon the world when, it may be after having been years with the flock, this influential member is discovered to be a thief, who for years has systematically stolen from his employers, who had the utmost confidence in him because of his church connections? So the whole flock becomes suspected of being hypocrites, until now very few business men consider it any recommendation to an employee, to know that he is a christian. Nor should this be wondered at when we reflect that if any large defalcation or financial irregularity occurs you will find yourself as well as the infidel inquiring--Of what church is he a prominent member?