nolongTing:

Can you proove Romney was rejected because he was a Mormon?

I cannot prove but I know it was part of what lost him the election.

Kobojunkie:

I cannot prove but I know it was partly his achilles heal.

Fair point, The mormons fought a WAR to live the way they do and it seems as if they are ready to do so anytime they feel threatened.  They provide for their families, they have several wealthy individuals - I even remember Oprah doing a show on Mormon Millionaires with several wives and well educated children.  The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.

nolongTing:

Fair point, The mormons fought a WAR to live the way they do and it seems as if they are ready to do so anytime they feel threatened.  They provide for their families, they have several wealthy individuals - I even remember Oprah doing a show on Mormon Millionaires with several wives and well educated children.  The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.

Why in the world would any right thinking human being consider any EARTHLY BEING/NATION PERFECT in the first place? I don't get that? Even if America comes out to say " AMERICA IS A PERFECT COUNTRY OF PERFECT PEOPLE", don't you think only an idiot would believe that considering we already know from day one of this planet that NOTHING IS PERFECT?

nobody said anyone was perfect. nobody claimed to be perfect.

must_a_far:

nobody said anyone was perfect. nobody claimed to be perfect.

Thanks @must_a_far


Read it again @Kobo:

[size=13pt]The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.[/size]

nolongTing:

The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT

Dude, THAT is NOT a POINT. America tries to be the most descent. Would you rather IT NOT try at all to be descent? Is that what you would rather want of America here? Come on!! This whole America is /is not perfect should not even part of any discussion. It should not even occur in any debate.

@Sagamite
Saw your post on te first page. . . it's an insult to rape victims.
How can you compare office romance to rape??

Hmmn . . . you live in the UK, saying that in an office environment could cost even an MP his job.

nolongTing:

Thanks @must_a_far


Read it again @Kobo:

[size=13pt]The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.[/size]

Which America are you talking about? The one that we all live in? If you want to see people who make genuine effort to be decent, visit the Scandinavia. It is 0% crime there. I moved over here from there and I can judge.

eldee:

@Sagamite
Saw your post on te first page. . . it's an insult to rape victims.
How can you compare office romance to rape??

Hmmn . . . you live in the UK, saying that in an office environment could cost even an MP his job.

So you are saying being related to a rapist is a worse crime than office "abuse" (get your words right).

Sagamite = Adeniran's nephew

Sagamite:

So you are saying being related to a rapist is a worse crime than office "abuse" (get your words right).

Let me put it like this . . . if Obama had a rapist for a son, he'll be nowhere near the Oval Office.

eldee:

Let me put it like this . . . if Obama had a rapist for a son, he'll be nowhere near the Oval Office.

Again an election is a popularity contest, not a test of ability as such. A ministerial appointment is something completely different so you cannot make a casual link between two fundamentally different situations.

The mere accusation (which is all it is at this stage) of rape should not be used to dismiss an ambassadorial nominee, especially when he is not involved directly and the person in question is an ADULT.

mekuslogan:

Sagamite = Adeniran's nephew

Huh??

By that logic, and if it is true, then I must be a rapist too abi?

eldee:

Let me put it like this . . . if Obama had a rapist for a son, he'll be nowhere near the Oval Office.

I think debosky just answered you.

Popularity contest is not necessarily right or produces the correct results.

Kobojunkie:

Dude, THAT is NOT a POINT. America tries to be the most descent. Would you rather IT NOT try at all to be descent? Is that what you would rather want of America here? Come on!! This whole America is /is not perfect should not even part of any discussion. It should not even occur in any debate.

Read it again @Kobo:

The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.

mekuslogan:

Which America are you talking about? The one that we all live in? [size=15pt]If you want to see people who make genuine effort to be decent[/size], visit the Scandinavia. It is 0% crime there. I moved over here from there and I can judge.

No I am NOT talking about PEOPLE who make a GENUINE effort to be decent, I am talking about U.S Politicians that try to project an image of high morals. Its cool they are trying but its not working or genuine.

@Sagamite

Every Nigerian political office holder is a criminal by default. Birds of the same feather flock together.
Nemesis will keep on following them.

debosky:

Again an election is a popularity contest, not a test of ability as such. A ministerial appointment is something completely different so you cannot make a casual link between two fundamentally different situations.
The mere accusation (which is all it is at this stage) of rape should not be used to dismiss an ambassadorial nominee, especially when he is not involved directly and the person in question is an ADULT.

Your father's past can make you unpopular likewise your son's act can make you unpopular as well. It's not right to reject him by this act of his son but then he is a Nigerian and everybody is looking for an excuse to have one on us.

Whoz that guy that is claiming the rapist? Is it a planned something or what.

The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.

i understand your point.

nolongTing:

Read it again @Kobo:

The point is Americans TRY to be the most descent on earth but they proove time and time again that nobody is PERFECT.

No I am NOT talking about PEOPLE who make a GENUINE effort to be decent, I am talking about U.S Politicians that try to project an image of high morals. Its cool they are trying but its not working or genuine.

Well, you saying the same thing I commented on earlier.

must_a_far:

i understand your point.

much respect @must_a_far  

debosky:

Again an election is a popularity contest, not a test of ability as such. A ministerial appointment is something completely different so you cannot make a casual link between two fundamentally different situations.

The mere accusation (which is all it is at this stage) of rape should not be used to dismiss an ambassadorial nominee, especially when he is not involved directly and the person in question is an ADULT.

It's the same thing everywhere . . .
He's there to be the face of Nigeria in the country . . . and his 20 year old son has a criminal record longer than Nile.
Judges/MPs resign because of these things . . . the man should have withdrawn his application himself to avoid disgrace.

eldee:

Judges/MPs resign because of these things .

No, they don't!

Sagamite:

No, they don't!

You must be having a laugh . . .
Just recently, Ciavarella's daughter resigned from her Assistant DA role for 'personal reasons'
That's just last month.

I can't start listing names now . . .but this one was on CNN today

That is what you called good governments. US thanks; teach those fat belle how to govern since they don't know. That should teach them lesson.

Great!
Let him return to Nigeria immediately and enjoy his 2 abi 5 wives in peace
If his son were not a rapist, being a bigamist would have disqualified him anyway.

Are people still laying ambush to rape random women? ***shakes head** leaves thread**

Some times what they call rape in the west might just be a woman changing her mind for one reason or the other after a submissive sexual encounter.Imagine a man raping his wife,how possible can that be?

However,nigerian government is illegitimate,her ambassadors are not worthy.

OMgosh!!

This was just the US sticking a gentle finger into Nigeria's eye.

spoilt:

Are people still laying ambush to rape random women? ***shakes head** leaves thread**

 
The funniest post of the year.

Laying ambush to rape women happened in Naija 100 years ago.

Hypocritical americans.

i just realized something that may be of relevance -

this is probably not the son's first time(i think he's guilty) as a naija matter, am sure his father may have pulled off enough coverups and under the carpets for the guy back home. maybe the authorities got wind of this during investigation/interrogations

that aside, its just life, its inevitable that a well publicised crime by someone be it a friend, or family member who can be linked with me with have adverse effects on any opportunities that present, and vice versa.

all we are doing is splitting hairs. as a businessman, would you feel comfortable employing a person whose son is in a rape trial? i can just see the headlines now - _big boy's son in rape case.

the man should have jejely withdrawn by himself - the fact of the matter is that we all pay for the crimes of our family members.

US has the right to reject him, says Olanipekun (SAN)
Cover Stories Sep 19, 2009

By Okey Ndiribe (Assist. Political Editor), Ise-Oluwa Igeand Dapo Akinrefon
He is a one-time President of the Nigerian Bar Association and private counsel to President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua.
He spoke exclusively with Vanguard on the rejection of Prof Adeniran by the Government of the United States of America (USA) as ambassardor to Nigeria.

I know Prof Tunde Adeniran. He is an outstanding and very cerebral academic. He is also an established and well acclaimed administrator.

There is no doubt that he is able, capable and suited to be the Nigerian ambassador anywhere in the world particularly the United States of America.

Now that he has been rejected by the United States of America on the grounds that his son was allegedly on a gang that raped an American citizen, the question that arises is: Can America reject him as unfit to be the ambassardor of Nigeria in the US?

Let me answer that question by saying that there is no vicarious liability in criminal law.

In other words, whatever offence a father commits cannot be visited on the son and vice versa.
It is a universally accepted cannon of law. It is not restricted to Nigeria. It is also applicable in the United States of America. That is the law.

But when it comes to international diplomacy, the American government or the home country has a lot of latitudes to look into the pedigree, the background, the person, even the family of the person who is being donated to them as an ambassador. It is within their latitude.

Again, we also have to consider the norms in America. America is a country that places so much value on morals. America is a country where nobody can just wake up and assert himself or present himself as a legislator, a governor or as a president.

This is also the case in Great Britain.

In those countries, they have the innermost respect for anybody who wants to occupy any high office. Therefore, not just anybody can aspire to high offices.

Recall what happened during the last election in the United States to the running mate to the Republican candidate, Mrs Sarah simply because the daughter has some problem.

You will recall that the problem the daughter had was that her teenage daughter was pregnant.

To us in this clime, it is a non-issue but to them, there, it is a big issue.

The Americans rose up against Mrs Sarah over the issue and they said: look, you called yourself a Christian, a Pentecostal Christian, for that matter, and this kind of thing happened.

They asked her if she was a fit and proper person to occupy the exalted seat of the Vice President of the United States of America, given her inability to exercise firm control on her daughter?

Like I said earlier, to us, in Nigeria, it will be a non-issue.

So, what I have just done now was basically to juxtapose this example with what they had done.

Let me say at this juncture that I am not pronouncing the son of Prof Tunde Adeniran guilty of whatever offence they claimed he had committed.

In fact, I don’t know that he committed any offence. Im just hearing from you now.

But I am saying that if that is their reason, I stand to say that they have a reason to give a reason for rejecting him.

And having given that reason, I still believe that Nigeria can still make a representation.

But that will be after the Government of Nigeria must have asked and heard from Prof Tunde Adeniran on whether the said allegation ever existed and whether his son was really involved and if yes, under what circumstance was he involved.

I believe that if he has a persuasive excuse, the Federal Government can still make a representation to change the position of the US Gopvernment.

Let me reiterate however that under international treaty and law, when you are sending somebody to another country as an ambassador, the municipal law and nuances including the norms and ethos as well as the ethics of that country will have to apply before acceptance. That is just the position.
Professors disagree

There have been mixed reactions from Nigerians over last Thursday’s rejection of Prof. Tunde Adeniran as the nation’s ambassadorial nominee to the United States of America. In his own reaction to the development, Akin Oyebode, a professor of international law described the development as unfortunate.

Said he: “ It is a rather unfortunate development because Prof. Tunde Adeniran is a nice fellow. He has the requisite credentials both academic and political. He is a Professor of political science and he has a Ph.D degree from the University of Columbia. There couldn’t have been a better choice. But I think that one of his children’s involvement in a case of rape in the United States may have worked against him.”

He continued: “ I suspect that incident might have influenced the Americans to deny him what is called agreman in international law. The agreman principle which falls under the Geneva Convention stipulates that it is the prerogative of every host country to accept or refuse to accept an ambassadorial nominee for confirmation.

So what the Americans have done is to deny Prof. Adeniran agreman. Under international law the Americans don’t need to tell us why they have denied an ambassadorial nominee agreman.”

Prof Oyebode further described the development as another slap on the face of the President Umar Yar’Adua administration “ for not doing its home work on one occasion too many.”

“ Apart from the latest incident, Nigeria has lost almost all its nominees for international offices around the world. Nigeria’s profile internationally has nose-dived” he said.

He further stated that the only option left for the Federal Government is to go back to the drawing board and try to get somebody the Americans would not deny agreman.

In his own reaction Prof. Itse Sagay described the treatment meted to Ambassador Adeniran by the United States government as “unreasonable”.

Said he: “I think what they did is unreasonable. If the child was charged for rape, why should they take it on the father? I think it’s unreasonable. Nigeria should protest very strongly.”

In addition, the legal luminary argued that the United States of America “have no reason because the son and father are two legal entities. The father has no control over the son who has reached a certain age.

The Americans are showing us contempt and I think we should protest very strongly in order for them to show us more respect.”