Atheists:

I am not a good writer but l will try my best. I was raised in an extremely religious family and my father is an Anglican priest. At around 15 l began a pentecostal after attending one of the miracle crusades. So l began to speak in tongues and do all those funny things which come with being a pentecostal.  My path to being a free thinker started when l came to Canada. My father as a black priest could not get a job because of blatant racism within the church. He worked part time at the theological college which trained  Anglican   priests in Toronto but what amazed me was  that the  students he trained would get  full time jobs within the diocese whilst he was denied one. I failed to understand  that if God  does exist then why does he turn a blind eye to the racism and corruption which is rampant within the  church.

Absolute hogwash! Even Christ was denied by HIS OWN PEOPLE, beaten, spat on and finally crucified on the cross . . . so racism is God's fault? Did not the same bible you claimed to have read tell you that you will suffer for His sake? Why is that a surprise? Did the bible anywhere promise you a problem-free ride the minute you became a christian?

Atheists:

My other problem was with the pentecostal church which l attended in Toronto. These guys claimed to have the holy spirit but their behavior said otherwise. First of all their miracles were dubious and they abused the church funds in a blatant and disgusting manner . Again[b] this made me wonder that if God truly  existed then his nonchalant attitude towards dealing with  charlatans deceiving innocent people with his name spoke volumes.[/b]  

More nonsense. The same God watched as His own Son was crucified on the cross . . . one would have expected all the disciples to turn to atheism like you too right? What did you expect God to do? Strike those pastors down with death? Did you not read in that bible you carried for yrs "let them both grow until the harvest"?

Did the same bible not warn you that the wicked would indeed prosper at the end time?

Atheists:

During the summer of 2006 l decided to read the bible from Genesis to Revelation going through each book with a fine comb.It is during this time that l became convinced that the bible was not the word of God. The old testament was full of cruelty and injustices whilst the new testament was riddled with contradictions.

Absurd.

Atheists:

I also looked at the ten commandments and analyzed them one by one and came to a conclusion that these were the laws of iron age ignoramuses  not god.

thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet their neighbors stuff, thou shalt not commit fornication, thou shalt not steal - all laws by iron age ignoramuses even though your common law today is heavily dependent on the 10 commandments?

This guy is a joke.

Atheists:

I could not understand how god would give more importance to the Sabbath in his commandments whilst he never mentions anything about  slavery, women rights and human rights in his commandments.

you expected ALL THAT to be accomodated in 10 COMMANDMENTS? How long do you think the commandments would be then? 1000 pages long?

If you bothered to read the bible thoroughly as you earlier lied to have done you'd know that the bible does talk about slavery, womens and human rights . . . try finding out what jubilee means in the bible mister.

Atheists:

At this stage l became a skeptic and l was on an irreversible path to atheism and secular humanism. The final nail in the coffin was the problem of evil. I couldn't understand how a benevolent , omniscient and omnipotent god would allow evil to exist.

This is purely daft. If there was no evil there would be no good either. you need the existence of one to understand the nature of the other. If evil didnt exist then righteousness, mercy, love, kindness, long suffering would be meaningless terms.

Atheists:

By the end of 2006 l was an atheist but l haven't come out of the closet to my family or close friends. My mom will be emotionally devastated and as for my friends they will desert me.

Another coward who can only bleat about "coming to the light" on the internet with a fake name. If truly you KNOW that God doesnt exist then educate your family and friends.

The problem is your nature and craving for sin is simply rebelling.

davidylan:

Absolute hogwash! Even Christ was denied by HIS OWN PEOPLE, beaten, spat on and finally crucified on the cross . . . so racism is God's fault? Did not the same bible you claimed to have read tell you that you will suffer for His sake? Why is that a surprise? Did the bible anywhere promise you a problem-free ride the minute you became a christian?

Jesus was racist and sectarian in his doctrine, forbiding his disciples from going into the towns and villages of non-Jewish. This doctrine which was carried over by his true Jerusalem heir, under the leadership of James was the centre of the dispute that the early followers had with the upstart Paul who came in and overthrow the whole Jesus idea.

davidylan:

More nonsense. The same God watched as His own Son was crucified on the cross . . . one would have expected all the disciples to turn to atheism like you too right? What did you expect God to do? Strike those pastors down with death? Did you not read in that bible you carried for yrs "let them both grow until the harvest"?

Why would one expect them to turn to atheism? What is the record of people abandoning their previous belief even after all their tenets and predictions have been summarily refuted?

davidylan:

Did the same bible not warn you that the wicked would indeed prosper at the end time?

Who is the wicked? Is this world a better world or a worse world than it was 2000 years ago? When would you rather live? Now or 2000 years ago? Who are these wicked who are propering?

davidylan:

thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet their neighbors stuff, thou shalt not commit fornication, thou shalt not steal - all laws by iron age ignoramuses even though your common law today is heavily dependent on the 10 commandments?

You make things up too readily. Thou shaltnot kill is not part of the 10 Commandments, nor is thou shalt not commit fornication. Straighten up, please!

davidylan:

you expected ALL THAT to be accomodated in 10 COMMANDMENTS? How long do you think the commandments would be then? 1000 pages long?

What harm is there in having a 100000 pages commandment? Have you had a look at the written code of law in the law schools and court that govern civil society today? Can you write this out in a single page like the 10C?

Christians, when pushed, would say the the ultimate commandment is the "Love your neighbour" commandment. But this is not even given as one of the 10C.

davidylan:

If you bothered to read the bible thoroughly as you earlier lied to have done you'd know that the bible does talk about slavery, womens and human rights . . . try finding out what jubilee means in the bible mister.

Yes, the bible talks about slavery, women rights. But only to condone slavery and restrict the freedom and opportunities of women.

davidylan:

This is purely daft. If there was no evil there would be no good either. you need the existence of one to understand the nature of the other. If evil didnt exist then righteousness, mercy, love, kindness, long suffering would be meaningless terms.

If God is omnipotent, could he have engineered a situation where there was NO evil but ONLY GOOD? If he could not, then he cannot be omnipotent.

@ atheists

You can't really expect God to look after billions of people---I mean they have got free will after all and everything is reserved until Judgement Day.

@Noetic2

1. So it is God's fault that your father could not get a job? did your dad attempt to seek God's opinion? did he seek the counsel of God? when half-baked church goers dont get things their way, they question the legitimacy of God. did God encourage the abusers to be racist?

2. So u became a free thinker cos your dad had no full-time job? what does "free thinking" entail? denying the existence of God due to irrelevant peccadilloes?

3. what is God supposed to do to a man who chooses to be racist? what did your dad do about it?


Very funny, Pls i can't laugh what a reason to become an 'atheist'.

@poster, Ecclesiastes 3:1 reads: There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven

1. So it is God's fault that your father could not get a job? Huh did your dad attempt to seek God's opinion? did he seek the counsel of God? when half-baked church goers dont get things their way, they question the legitimacy of God. did God encourage the abusers to be racist?

2. So u became a free thinker cos your dad had no full-time job? Huh what does "free thinking" entail? denying the existence of God due to irrelevant peccadilloes? Huh

3. what is God supposed to do to a man who chooses to be racist? what did your dad do about it?

Why would god allow racism to exist in his institution the church ? Why would god allow thieving televangelist like Peter Popoff and Benny Hinn to love-vendor his name for their own material gain ?

2. what are the contradictions in the NT?

What was Jesus last words? 

Matthew: "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani, that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (27: 46).

Luke: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" (23: 46).

It only makes "sense" to your fallen desire to continue in sin. Your problem here is that you want to shift the burden for righteous living to God . . . afterall if He's all knowing (which He is irrespective of your own problems) He shld simply prevent you from sinning.

sorry but that is frankly absurd. So shld the board of education simply write the entrance exams for you since they know some will still fail anyway? What is the point of reward then if you expect God to do it all for you?

bottomline . . . you're not an atheist at all because you have NO rational reason to be one. you've simply taken the easier way out . . . since you cant imagine doing without sin you simply latch unto the easiest excuse - oh there cant be God anyway.

Fallacy by analogy.

You can't really expect God to look after billions of people---I mean they have got free will after all and everything is reserved until Judgement Day.

Rom.8:29-30    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestine,  Moreover whom he did predestine, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Eph.1:4-5  He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


Do these verses in bible say we have free will ?

You can't really expect God to look after billions of people---I mean they have got free will after all and everything is reserved until Judgement Day.

silly me thinking God was omnipotent

noetic2:

2. what are the contradictions in the NT?

Have you ever read the NT?. . . I can't believe you are asking these questions. . .it is just like asking if the grass is green. . .

davidylan:

Absolute hogwash! Even Christ was denied by HIS OWN PEOPLE, beaten, spat on and finally crucified on the cross . . . so racism is God's fault? Did not the same bible you claimed to have read tell you that you will suffer for His sake? Why is that a surprise? Did the bible anywhere promise you a problem-free ride the minute you became a christian?

Jesus was a racist. . . he called the gentiles dogs and warned his disciples not to preach to them about the coming kingdom of god. . .There is no other advocate of racism like the OT god who you guys believe is the same jesus any way. . . .

More nonsense. The same God watched as His own Son was crucified on the cross . . . one would have expected all the disciples to turn to atheism like you too right? What did you expect God to do? Strike those pastors down with death? Did you not read in that bible you carried for yrs "let them both grow until the harvest"?

Did the bible god not strike down people who used his name to cheat. . .Remember the story of Ananias and his wife? Why is it that the bible god expresses his wrath ONLY on the pages of the bible and no where else?. . is it because that he exist only in the imaginations of those who subscribe to the myth?. . . . .

Did the same bible not warn you that the wicked would indeed prosper at the end time?

Who really are the wicked?. . .Have you read the books of psalm, Jeremiah, Ecclesiastes etc. . books that were alleged to have been written long before jesus where the authors of the book were complaining to their god that the wicked are prospering and seeking glory in themselves instead of yahweh?. . .What exactly is this end time you guys keep talking about?. . .Did paul Not advice people not to get married because the end time is already around?. . .

Absurd.

Is the NT not riddle with contradictions, historical errors and lies?. . .Is the OT god not worse than the allah you love to hate? Is killing people and sacrificing them as burnt offering to yahweh sound like justice to you?

thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet their neighbors stuff, thou shalt not commit fornication, thou shalt not steal - all laws by iron age ignoramuses even though your common law today is heavily dependent on the 10 commandments?

This is false because people living before the 10 commandments were ever written down knew that it was wrong to steal, murder, tell lies and sleep with other people's wives. . .Stoning to death people for working on the sabbath will get you sentenced to life in imprisonment if you practice it today and that is also part of the 10 commandments. . .

This guy is a joke.

you expected ALL THAT to be accomodated in 10 COMMANDMENTS? How long do you think the commandments would be then? 1000 pages long?

If you bothered to read the bible thoroughly as you earlier lied to have done you'd know that the bible does talk about slavery, womens and human rights . . . try finding out what jubilee means in the bible mister.

Actually the bible talks about branding of slaves. . .sexism and other things that our present societies frown at. . . like women not speaking in public. . . .

This is purely daft. If there was no evil there would be no good either. you need the existence of one to understand the nature of the other. If evil didnt exist then righteousness, mercy, love, kindness, long suffering would be meaningless terms.

Do you guys read your bible at all? does your bible god claim that he is responsible for evil that happen?

(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"

(Isaiah 45:7,) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Another coward who can only bleat about "coming to the light" on the internet with a fake name. If truly you KNOW that God doesnt exist then educate your family and friends.

Hitting you head on the floor and shouting the loudest will not tun the myth you subscribe to into the truth. . .your god exist only in your deluded imaginations. . .

The problem is your nature and craving for sin is simply rebelling.

What is sin?. . . that you chose to buy into that delusion does not make it true. . .

Poster: save yourself the stress and look at it this way:

You do not need to believe in the existence of the Abrahamic God.

But at all events, something caused the universe to come into existence, and that something clearly manifests attributes of intelligence and power.

That something also clearly contains all the elements of all that exists; both good and evil.

So God, understood rightly, definitely exists.

Atheism is the positive denial of the existence of God.

It is not doubt as to his nature. That is more in line with agnosticism.

So please stop going around calling yourseld an atheist on the grounds that God as defined  by religion is contradictory or even wicked. That we do not understand the uncaused cause does not invalidate its existence.

Contemplate the universe. Can you fathom it?

O. . . you cannot, right? . . . Does your failure to fathom it mean that it ceases to exist?

Bingo!

Atheists:


Rom.8:29-30    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestine,  Moreover whom he did predestine, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Eph.1:4-5  He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


Do these verses in bible say we have free will ?

bawomolo:

silly me thinking God was omnipotent

That is religion for you.

Ive learnt something in life. NO ONE has to believe in God. No one.
I dont see what the argument is all about. Initially, I felt the poster was in need of clarification, now I just see he's looking to fight as many people as he can. A typical NL characteristic.
If you are sure of what you say, then go your way. You dont argue about faith with people.
Faith is a gift, and not all will recieve it. Its like one person saying 2+2=4, another one says 5+4=9.
Youre not even talking about the same thing!

Dear Rosabelle, i can show you threads on this forum where Atheists have argued that we cannot be certain that 2 + 2 = 4. One atheist in particular began to assert that 2 + 2 = 4 on earth but maybe not on mars. When i talked about the existence of something, and contrasted that with nothingness, some atheists demanded a definition of what "nothing" means. At some point i asserted that the universe is something, and one of them asked me to prove that.

In summary, they  generally do not have much to say, and are content to trifle around with words and hollow questions. Beyond a collective hatred of man-made religion, they can never muster intelligible reasons for calling themselves atheists. Not that i demand proof from them, but at least some faint idea as to why they have chosen their path. . . the only reason they are able to muster is that "religion is false and corrupt."

Of course this is just like assering that a faulty car which has been used to kill people had no manufacturer, on account of its faulty and evil nature.

Unthinkable reasoning.

@Deepsight

We atheists are not the irrational ones. We don't use from 2000 year old book written by bronze age tribesman as gods word

Welcome to the real world, It is like Morpheus welcoming neo after taking the Blue pill. The real world is tough much tougher than the make believe world Religionists live in. You will not have the luxury of mass appeal and security in numbers, you will be alone, lonely, sneered at and even persecuted by friends family and others. But if you persevere you will find joy in the fact that your life and destiny is in your hands and you can take it any direction you wish.

I quarrel with your appellation though, atheists differ from religionists in that they do not carry appellations, symbols, clothes and other distinguishing features to make them stand out in a crowd. You should just be glad that you are free.

Deep Sight:

Dear Rosabelle, i can show you threads on this forum where Atheists have argued that we cannot be certain that 2 + 2 = 4. One atheist in particular began to assert that 2 + 2 = 4 on earth but maybe not on mars. When i talked about the existence of something, and contrasted that with nothingness, some atheists demanded a definition of what "nothing" means. At some point i asserted that the universe is something, and one of them asked me to prove that.

In summary, they  generally do not have much to say, and are content to trifle around with words and hollow questions. Beyond a collective hatred of man-made religion, they can never muster intelligible reasons for calling themselves atheists. Not that i demand proof from them, but at least some faint idea as to why they have chosen their path. . . the only reason they are able to muster is that "religion is false and corrupt."

Of course this is just like assering that a faulty car which has been used to kill people had no manufacturer, on account of its faulty and evil nature.

Unthinkable reasoning.

Speaking only for myself,  I am atheist because I have not seen a positive coherent definition of God that is free from internal inconsistencies.  I have asked you many a times to give me your defintion of God but you have refused.  Can I ask you now to give us a definition of God and we shall examine whether an entity with your definition is capable of existence?

Now is your turn

huxley:

Speaking only for myself,  I am atheist because I have not seen a positive coherent definition of God that is free from internal inconsistencies.  I have asked you many a times to give me your defintion of God but you have refused.  Can I ask you now to give us a definition of God and we shall examine whether an entity with your definition is capable of existence?

Now is your turn

why dont u start by defining EXISTENCE? what does it mean to EXIST? , . .I would love to examine ur definition and see if God is incapable of existing. . . .

why dont u start by defining EXISTENCE? what does it mean to EXIST? , . .I would love to examine your definition and see if God is incapable of existing. . . .

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike

what does it mean to be "non-existent"?

@Noetic

Don't try to play petty word games with us. U know what non existant means if you don't consult the dictionary

I have seen the dictionary. . . . .what I dont see is how God fits that definition. . . .so why dont u tell me?

Deep Sight:

Dear Rosabelle, i can show you threads on this forum where Atheists have argued that we cannot be certain that 2 + 2 = 4. One atheist in particular began to assert that 2 + 2 = 4 on earth but maybe not on mars. When i talked about the existence of something, and contrasted that with nothingness, some atheists demanded a definition of what "nothing" means. At some point i asserted that the universe is something, and one of them asked me to prove that.

In summary, they  generally do not have much to say, and are content to trifle around with words and hollow questions. Beyond a collective hatred of man-made religion, they can never muster intelligible reasons for calling themselves atheists. Not that i demand proof from them, but at least some faint idea as to why they have chosen their path. . . the only reason they are able to muster is that "religion is false and corrupt."

Of course this is just like assering that a faulty car which has been used to kill people had no manufacturer, on account of its faulty and evil nature.

Unthinkable reasoning.

Your ignorance is blinding.

When you say 2 + 2 = 4, you have to tell us what the 2 represents. 2 what?. Einstein had proven close to a century ago, that when you add the speed, mass and length of physical objects, the final answer depends on the frame of reference of the two bodies and of the observer. So you cannot even compute the answer unless you know all three velocities.

I know that the velocity of moving objects on earth is extremely close to zero as compared to the speed of light, that makes measurements of these quantity close to your 2+2 =4, but in outer space the story might be different.

Also there is nothing like nothingness in the universe, even a supposed vacuum contains hydrogen atoms, some degree of gravitational force, photons, cosmic radiations and a host of other particles. It is only a vacuum (nothingness) in comparism to conditions on earth.

Please you people stop this "My fathers Farm is The Biggest, Greenest, and most beautiful mentality" there is a world of excitement and grandeur out there, you only have to open your eyes to see it.

I have seen the dictionary. . . . .what I dont see is how God fits that definition. . . .so why dont u tell me?

Can you see god the same way you see the sun ? Can you feel god the same way we feel the force of gravity or wind ?

Atheists:

Can you see god the same way you see the sun ? Can you feel god the same way we feel the force of gravity or wind ?

is this an argument?

Sorry guys, but I have one small question: For those who believed in the theory of evolution, what will evolve out of men? This is an honest question please, I've just been thinking, if man evolve from something, what will evolve from homo sapiens? Are we the end of the evolution chain? is the chain linear or a cycle?

It is a question which deserves an answer

noetic2:

why dont u start by defining EXISTENCE? what does it mean to EXIST? , . .I would love to examine your definition and see if God is incapable of existing. . . .

Check this out - Existence is the condition exhibited when something is perceivable and will have one or more of the following;

1) A lifetime
2) it possesses matter, energy

And most of ALL Something that exist CANNOT BEAR internal inconsistency. For example, We know a square circle cannot exist because there is internal inconsistence in their definitions.

Allta:

Sorry guys, but I have one small question: For those who believed in the theory of evolution, what will evolve out of men? This is an honest question please, I've just been thinking, if man evolve from something, what will evolve from homo sapiens?

Thanks for asking an honest question, and i will try and provide an honest answer.
It is extremely difficult to predict what homo sapiens sapiens will evolve into, evolution is a very slow and gradual process, before it can be appreciable you need a time span of at least 30,000 years, and that is if there is a sudden drastic climatic change.  it is not metamorphosis like some here want us to believe. Evolution is mainly driven by challenges, challenges like climate, availability of food and water, predator, decease, etc.

Now our present phase of evolution had shown that intelligence is the ultimate evolutionary advantage and not size or strength and degree of intelligence directly correlate with brain size per body weight. So we should naturally expect our brains to be bigger, which means we will evolve bigger heads.

But there is a caveat. The female pelvic which determine the head size of a human baby has reached its limit ( in terms of size), so naturally bigger headed babies are not meant to survive. (but we get around that with Caesarean section now adays). Anyway for bigger headed babies to be born the female hip would have to expand further, but any further expansion of the hip bones would make walking normally difficult. So it would be interesting to see how evolution resolve that problem.

I am only speculating and i wish there are more evolutionists to rub minds withs, as i have many questions and hypothesis regarding many aspects of evolution.

If you want to understand evolution, you will have to embark on research, both online and offline, it is a very wide and interesting subject

Deep Sight:

Poster: save yourself the stress and look at it this way:

You do not need to believe in the existence of the Abrahamic God.

But at all events, something caused the universe to come into existence, and that something clearly manifests attributes of intelligence and power.

That something also clearly contains all the elements of all that exists; both good and evil.

So God, understood rightly, definitely exists.

You came to know this during a vigil at the Himilayas mountains, right?
We're still waiting for you to prove the nature of god you mentioned above.

Atheism is the positive denial of the existence of God.

It is not doubt as to his nature. That is more in line with agnosticism.

So please stop going around calling yourseld an atheist on the grounds that God as defined  by religion is contradictory or even wicked. That we do not understand the uncaused cause does not invalidate its existence.

Contemplate the universe. Can you fathom it?

O. . . you cannot, right? . . . Does your failure to fathom it mean that it ceases to exist?

Bingo!

God is purely a religious concept. It was originated by religions and should scientists discover the force that set in motion the reaction for the universe they can call it something else. Just like when religions said evil spirits cause disease when louis pasteur discovered germs (the real cause) did he name it evil spirit or germs? Both are said to cause disease by different parties that doesn't make them the same thing. That germs cause diseases doesn't automatically make it evil spirit so also the cause for the universe isn't necessarily god.

So yes, he can rightly call himself an atheist by rejecting the gods of religions.

wirinet:

Your ignorance is blinding.

When you say 2 + 2 = 4, you have to tell us what the 2 represents. 2 what?. Einstein had proven close to a century ago, that when you add the speed, mass and length of physical objects, the final answer depends on the frame of reference of the two bodies and of the observer. So you cannot even compute the answer unless you know all three velocities.

I know that the velocity of moving objects on earth is extremely close to zero as compared to the speed of light, that makes measurements of these quantity close to your 2+2 =4, but in outer space the story might be different.

Also there is nothing like nothingness in the universe, even a supposed vacuum contains hydrogen atoms, some degree of gravitational force, photons, cosmic radiations and a host of other particles. It is only a vacuum (nothingness) in comparism to conditions on earth.

Please you people stop this "My fathers Farm is The Biggest, Greenest, and most beautiful mentality" there is a world of excitement and grandeur out there, you only have to open your eyes to see it.

Dear Wirinet;

I am surprised. It appears to me that you are so far gone in the reverie that a little education affords that you are unable to distinguish between deductive reasoning and mathematical accuracy.

I would strongly advise that going forward you make an effort to contextualize discussions and advance propositions within the context of a goal. It is rather puerile to abandon deduction in favour of hairsplitting irrelevances. Especially when this is done with un-called for abuse.

Let me school you a little.

THIS:

Deep Sight:

Dear Rosabelle, i can show you threads on this forum where Atheists have argued that we cannot be certain that 2 + 2 = 4. One atheist in particular began to assert that 2 + 2 = 4 on earth but maybe not on mars. When i talked about the existence of something, and contrasted that with nothingness, some atheists demanded a definition of what "nothing" means. At some point i asserted that the universe is something, and one of them asked me to prove that.

- IS A REFERENTIAL EXAMPLE ONLY directed towards demonstrating that the Atheist is only intent on, and indeed only capable of heckling, as opposed to advancing original ideas of his own. It is not a statement that that seeks to serve as uncorroborated proof of any of the equations cited as heckled examples.

Evidence of my belief that you are more intent in showcasing an absolutely irrelevant knowledge of physics than applying yourself to a deductive argument rests in the shocking frolic you went on in defining nothingness. You were not deep enough in that frolic to  realize that inherent within your very assertion that everything is something (containing forces and particles etc) lies absolute justification of my assertion that the universe is a something.

Secondly i amazed that a man of your supposed education could take such a limited and narrow approach to the definition of the word "nothing." To be precise, you showed this great limitation of your mind when you referred to the fact that there is nothing like nothingness in the universe. And so what about outside the universe? Did you avert your mind to that? Did you not realize that my dissertation within the referenced thread dealt with existential questions which can by no means be limited to this universe (we dont know if, or how many universes could be out there). The discussion on somethingness and nothingness was an esoteric metaphysical proposition concerning the vast cosmological argument which transcends matter alone. It dealt with the totality of space and time. Thus, your reference to "nothingness" being impossible in the universe was astonishingly limited. You leave me dissapointed because having praised your intelligence before on this forum, i am presently baffled as to the pedantry on display.

Even if all the foregoing was incorrect, your graet failure would still lie in failing to grasp the philosophical argument contained within the nothingness equation. That equation sought to prove the existence of a first mover, or an uncaused cause, by showing exactly that nothingness can only produce nthingness, and that accordingly, the universe as we know it, came from a pre-existing somethingness.

Can you see now how dreadfully irrelevant your little chat about Einstein and Velocity was?

Don't be too eager to advertise a little education, in this instance, you have lost the plot, on account of an eagerness, if i may say - to be seen praying in the street.

Finally: I dont know what you mean by backyards. I have never claimed one.