naijababe:



Coward! It's meant for people you can pull the wool over their eyes abi?


Have you ever seen me on your threads?. I am not interested in your decision to choose atheism but y'all aren't getting away with 'fascism'. The right to choose to be a person of faith is an unalienable and non-negotiable right of every human. The same way I will speak up against ISIS and KKK is the same way I will speak up against atheist militancy and the crass discrimination dripping from his original post. There is no way I am going to let you get away such dangerous views.

I mean seriously, y'all egg him on with comments like religious women suck and can't live up to their potential. As I said in my first rejoinder, y'all can congregate, speak up against religion but you are not getting away with thinking that your choice and way is best for all us.

ValentineMary:

It seems u don't still understand atheism. Communicate more with them to understand.

What I mean is that if I eventually find out there is a kind of God somewhere, surely it's not what humans worship. In summary I am 100% sure all Gods humans worship are fake.

darkenedrebel:
...
Seun forgets that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
...

darkenedrebel:
According to Seun: "I have to be an Atheist because there is no evidence of any God"

This is a logical fallacy: argumentum ad ignoratiam (appeal to ignorance). Is this how you normally argue? Because there's no evidence of this, then it is nonexistent?

Orbiting that same fallacious illogicality of yours, I dare say that a kid born in an impoverished home—which peradventure is also located in the village—is right in believing that he/she can never achieve success, simply because he/she has no evidence that the wherewithal and opportunities to be wealthy and successful abound in the urbanized towns and cities.

BuddhaPalm:
Seun you're becoming a bad boy. You said "shitty'.

Seun:
Absolutely not. What I say is, "because there is no evidence of it, I cannot hold the belief that it exists."

Seun:
It doesn't really matter if you're a person like me who values the truth. I have to be an atheist because there's no evidence for any God

There's a lot of evidence that kids born into impoverished homes can achieve success. There are numerous verifiable stories of this happening.

BuddhaPalm:
But to be fair, without religion, the world would be quite a depressing place for lots of people.

darkenedrebel:
Why are you flip-flopping and trying to twist your own words just to weasel your way out of the logical fallacy you were guilty of? This was what you said to Naijababe, and I quote:
Admit your howler and stop trying to cover your tracks.

And FYI, there are oodles of data, happenings, and evidences that show that God indeed is not just a fictitious character, or a figment

the Incorruptibles (bodies of saints which after many years were found intact and without any decay—a phenomenon which till date has no scientific cum logical symmetry to it),

The Shroud Of Turin

cases of Stigmatists—like Padre Pio, Francis of Assisi et al (Stigmatists are people who suffered wounds of Christs, which inexplicably appeared most times on their palms or feet)

Why don't you sit back and think what our purpose on earth is if indeed there is no God and we are all just temporary occupants of earth? Think about it, why are we here? To enjoy the vain music and food? To use science to make our 'godless/non-spiritual' lives easier? To be born, only to die later, and probably before we even clock 70—especially in this age where life expectancy is at the downswing side of the curve.

Since you claim God doesn't exist then 'what is the purpose of humanity on earth'

why do we have to be arrayed in high moral fibre or be altruistic, or be do-gooders, since after all, God and hell doesn't exist? Tell me, why must I do good?

timpaker:
Which religion is against poetry, Mr. Seun?

firestar:


Timpaker.

Warm greetings. Try to look in between the lines of his. There's a familiar thread that undos the entire article.

darkenedrebel:


Atheists are the most ridiculous set of people ever.
If they think there is no God, then I would like to bowl you/them this googly—not even the then-how-did-we(humans)-come-into-existence-since-there-is-no-God type question—but the question which shatters Atheism into a zillion irreparable pieces, and that question is: Since you claim God doesn't exist then 'what is the purpose of humanity on earth', and why do we have to be arrayed in high moral fibre or be altruistic, or be do-gooders, since after all, God and hell doesn't exist? Tell me, why must I do good?

Of course, Atheists have no definitive answer to the foregoing. . . . . .or do you? I don't mind being at the receiving end of what your thoughts are on this one.

wirinet:
Oga Seun, as per the topic at hand, i do not believe in being outspoken in religious affairs. To me religion is a personal affair and people guard their beliefs jealously, sometimes with their lives.

The best way to make people see the folly of religious beliefs is to debate and exchange opinions as we had been doing here on Nairaland. With time the religious fanatics would gradually start questioning long held dogmas. This is how tens of people have denounced their faith right here on nairaland and this is how hundreds more have started questioning long held beliefs.
Dumping religion is a slow and painful process, if you try to attack religion directly, you will face a fierce response.

Remember, few of us started the crusade of freeing people from the shackles of religion way way back from 2007, we had memorable debates back then with people like Huxley, Mazaje, Noetic, Davidylan, Pastor AIO, Deepsight, Morpheus, etc. Today i feel very happy to see that Nigerians, especially the youth are is slowly waking up from religious malaise and direct that energy into developmental tasks.

You can only show people the door, they would have to walk through themselves.

Seun:

Atheism is the absence of belief in God. If you don't believe in any God, then you're an atheist

Some atheists would go a step further and assert that there's no God, but that's not required

[s]What makes you an atheist is not an assertion of nonexistence, but the absence of belief[/s]

Nope

They were well embalmed, like the Pharaohs of Egypt? Freshly embalmed bodies were placed in the tombs of ancient saints? Any recent case?

"The Shroud of Turin, a length of linen cloth bearing the image of a man, is believed by some Christians to be the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth. Three radiocarbon dating tests in 1988 dated a sample of the cloth to the Middle Ages" In other words, it's a hoax

Aren't wounds easily faked? I could take a nail and hammer it into your hands Viola, instant stigmata! How would that prove anything? The miracle here is that for some reason, people have chosen to ignore the possibility that those wounds were faked for fame and publicity

These are trivial questions; they only seem weighty because of our childhood indoctrination. Most of us are here because our parents chose to have children. That's it. Now you have your life, it's yours, and you get to decide what you'll do with it

Some people devote themselves to intellectual pursuits like science, maths, and technological research. Others make it their mission in life to educate, entertain, or inspire people. Others devote their lives to raising kids and helping them to achieve their potential. Or being really rich and famous. Whatever you enjoy, whatever makes the world a better place, whatever will give you pride as you review your life on your deathbed, you can make it your purpose

I see no reason to have a common purpose for all humanity. Why not let every human decide his/her own purpose? What's wrong with that?

We don't have to be altruistic, but we should probably choose to be altruistic because making people happy also makes us happy

Mindfulness:

I am not an atheist but I would love to add my two cents here and so I will.

You don't have to believe in God to have a life purpose. Personally, I believe that we are here to feel good and to evolve so that the universe expands like it does

And we don't have to be 'arrayed in high moral fibre or be altruistic' and we don't need hell to be so

There is nothing moral about doing what is right just because you fear punishment but it's moral and honourable to do so even if you fear no punishment and expect no reward

darkenedrebel:


What are you then? A satanist? That sounds hot.

@bolded__But to me, a life without god, a life with no hope of an afterlife, a life with nothing to hope for beyond our life here on earth is purposeless. I know it's subjective but that's just how I see it.

You believe we are just here to feel good? Feel good about what? Looooool.

And so that the universe can expand to what end?

There needs to be rhyme and reason for the existence of something. All these 'we-are-here-to-feel-good' explanations do not pass muster.

Theism gives life a purpose, because at least it promises of something beyond life here on earth.

Atheism in the other hand renders it purposeless. Deep down in your heart of hearts I'm sure you know this is true.

Psychology made us understand that people are not necessarily moral. They are only afraid of the punishments that they'll face when they break a rule, or are in most cases just too cowardly to break the rule i.e fear of getting caught are also why people adhere to rules.

So you see, what we think is morality only exist because of the rules and regulations that tend to put a rein on human actions.
Screen out those rules and the veneer of morality would collapse like a house of cards.

Mindfulness:

The advantage of people who believe that death is terminal and not a transition is that they tend to be more mindful and appreciative of the present moment

Whatever we desire in life, we desire it to feel good. We want money to feel powerful, confident and secure (=positive feelings). We want relationships to feel acknowledged, appreciated, loved and cared for (=positive feelings).

We want to sleep and to eat, to feel energetic (=good feeling).

We want to acquire knowledge to satisfy our curiosity (=good feeling).

We want to dance, play and win to feel free, frisky and strong (=good feelings).

All that we desire, we desire because we believe that if we get our desire fulfilled, we will feel good or better

Growth leads to new opportunities, new realities, new playgrounds

We are here to prove that we are worthy of our Creator's love and mercy is better?

I would be the last person who would want to talk you out of your faith in God and a continuation of your life beyond your physical body because faith is very powerful

and I share it with you but it's a fallacy to think that tomorrow is needed to give today a purpose

I am not an atheist but I don't believe that an atheist - by default - lives a life without purpose.
Your life purpose is to live your life in such a way that will take you to paradise. Someone else's purpose is it to get married or rich.
Someone else wants to fight climate change and others want to fight poverty
Whatever life purpose we choose, we need it to feel better.

This statement is based on the false premise that people who believe in God will do good for the fear of punishment If that was so, Nigeria would be the holiest place on earth.

Human beings have the capability to go beyond this stage. In fact, you have just described the lowest stage of moral development that humans are capable of achieving.

darkenedrebel:


Come on , spill it out. I once had a girlfriend who claimed she was Rosicrucian, so I wouldn't find whatever it is that you are to be weird or cuckoo.

It's probably because of how I'm wired because all of what you listed don't mean shît to me if that is all we are here for or meant to do.

Money that could vanish at any time? Relationships that causes heartbreaks, like when a loved one dies? Sleeping and eating? Is this what you call a purposefully driven existence? Just eating, sleeping and feeling energetic? Why not also add Nairalanding as a key sacred link in the eternal circle of life? You funny oooo

On a more serious mote, it all makes no sense vis-a-vis the lifespan of the average human being—what's the point if it all ends in DEATH? Perhaps it would have made more sense to me if we had been immortal and then get to enjoy all of these things ad infinitum.

Tell me what you are. I want to know. Are you agnostic? I can only make sense of what you say when I know what side of the fence you're sitting on.

Not necessarily. We were initially meant to be in paradise(earth) and live peacefully and happily ever after - this was the order of the day during the prelapsarian period, then the fall of man upsetted the halcyon atmosphere and triggered a new operational paradigm - one that now demands that for reparation of the sins of our first parents, salvation now has to be earned i.e we are given the free will to do good or bad, if we do good we transmogrify from this earthen ware bodies into an ethereal, heavenly state, but if we don't then like the proverbial chaff we are condemned to hell.

This makes more sense

Even if you tried your damnedest, you can't. Faith is only a belief in the unseen and unknown. I've had personal experiences, however anecdotal my account might be, so my faith has transcended into a belief in the known, felt and seen.

You need to stand beside me. . . .the ectoplasmatic spiritual vibes emitting from me could give any sexually active lady some very pleasurable pûssy queefs.

Honestly, wouldn't it be better to have a belief in something (God) and then die only to find out you had been wasting your time, than to not believe in anything (God) then die only to find out you had been dead wrong all along? And of course by that time it would have been too late.

Anyone with keen business acumen would choose the first option because of the damage-control involved.

It is not a fallacy. If it is then tell me what the name of this fallacy is?

Your opinion, not mine. But then again we can always agree to disagree.

@emboldened__I didn't mention anything like that, and neither was my premise predicated on that.

It's in psychology. You know one thing I'm not wont to do is turf out links when conversing on Nairaland. So, get those pretty little fingers to work and start using your search engines.

98% of humans are still in the stage of pre-conceptual/pre-conventional morality and will probably never get past that stage. We are beastly, savage and immoral by nature; morality is also nonbiological.

Before the marriage institution was established (a brainchild of theism) we had liberal sex with no-strings attached (asides from the females who were/are genetically predisposed to being hormonally attached to the archetypal Alphamale that mates with them)

We also killed, plundered, and didn't have any qualms of conscience about it. And do you know why we didn't feel prostrate with guilt? It's because morality is not an innate component of humanity, it is a socially conditioning, just like gender bias—and this social conditioning was made possible by threats of sanction contained in our law books.

Did you know that there is no single portion of the brain responsible for morality or that there is no such thing as morality objectivism? Of course you do.

We only chose to hedge these rules and regulations in order to create a false sense of morality, mainly to protect the weak and poor in the society. It's Occam's Razor—in the sense that we opted for a saner, more simplistic option that would give us a sense of security as opposed to the savage survival-of-the-fittest mentality that's deep-seated and inherent in our genetic makeup.

And to prove to you that we are moral only when it is convenient for us, I would like you to answer the popular Trolley problem (@photo1)

Imagine it were your son(if you have a male child) on the right hand side of the track in that photo. Would you divert the train to the side where your son is standing, thereby killing him and saving the lives of the 5 people on the other side (which is the morally right thing to do)
Or would you do the reverse? (which is morally wrong)

Answer this question.

Let's make it more personal now with the Footbridge dilemma (@photo2)

Imagine you were standing on one side of the tracks with your son, would you push him into the oncoming train (which has obviously lost control), thus saving the lives of the 5 people in front of the tracks (which is the morally right thing to do)

Or would you allow the train to kill the 5 people knowing fully well that you could have prevented it by pushing your son onto the tracks (which is morally wrong and a further certification of the innate selfishness, immorality, and debasement of the human nature)

Your answer to the two questions has to be YES or NO. Don't try cutting corners with semantics. Just a simply YES or NO answer would suffice. And think deeply about your answers before proffering them, and also whether they would still be the same if you ever had to make such decision in real life. And don't try lying to me, 'cause as you know I can see directly through your gentle soul

Give me an answer. . . .don't keep Daddy waiting

Mindfulness:


I am not an atheist but I would love to add my two cents here and so I will.

You don't have to believe in God to have a life purpose. Personally, I believe that we are here to feel good and to evolve so that the universe expands like it does.

And we don't have to be 'arrayed in high moral fibre or be altruistic' and we don't need hell to be so.

There is nothing moral about doing what is right just because you fear punishment but it's moral and honourable to do so even if you fear no punishment and expect no reward.

joseph1832:
Splendidly put!. We do good and what is right because it feels good. Funny how those who are suppose to be going the good better than anyone else because of fear of eternal burning are the ones who do the opposite.

wirinet:
The best way to make people see the folly of religious beliefs is to debate and exchange opinions as we had been doing here on Nairaland. With time the religious fanatics would gradually start questioning long held dogmas. This is how tens of people have denounced their faith right here on nairaland and this is how hundreds more have started questioning long held beliefs.
Dumping religion is a slow and painful process, if you try to attack religion directly, you will face a fierce response.

Remember, few of us started the crusade of freeing people from the shackles of religion way way back from 2007, we had memorable debates back then with people like Huxley, Mazaje, Noetic, Davidylan, Pastor AIO, Deepsight, Morpheus, etc. Today i feel very happy to see that Nigerians, especially the youth are is slowly waking up from religious malaise and direct that energy into developmental tasks.

Mindfulness:

Thanks.

It begs the question how some priests were able to abuse little boys on the church's premises and it begs the question how people can kill other people in the name of God.

I do good because it feels good and because I know that it pays off, not in the afterlife but now!

joseph1832:
Oh you're always welcome.

Well it's not the priests doing, it's the devil's doing. Funny how they always blame that guy for every evil they always and will ever do.

I bet if a priest sodomize a lil boy in the Vatican, and he's taken before a court, and asked: "how do you plead" he replies "I plead not guilty, it's the devil's fault". Wham! He'll be discharged and acquitted.

Exactly. Sooner or later, people will see that doing good is good business.

Mindfulness:




It's ok to do evil. You just need to go to church, confess and repent and you are good again.
Whatever you do, just repent afterwards and everything will be fine. You will be even celebrated for wrestling the devil to the ground.

Moreover, you have proven the All-Knowing that you are worthy because the All-Knowing didn't know it all before.

joseph1832:
Yes. Go to confession everyday and immediately after confessing, go back to your evil.

"Father forgive me for I have sinned"

"Confess your sins and it will be forgiven".

"I planted a nuke in a orphanage as a result, killed millions of people".

Let's see if the reverend father will be able to say "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more".

Rather it makes the all knowing seem pretty confuse, don't you think?.

Really this religious folks clearly need brain transplant. It still baffles me how they will say they are this and do contrary to what that thing they say they are preach.

Mindfulness:

I was born into a Christian family and as much as I believe that Jesus was a cool, revolutionary and extraordinary personality, I don't buy the rest of the fairytales (except for some historical accounts) written in the Bible.I believe in God but I am not an adherent of any religion and very happy with it

Are you sure?

Even if money can vanish, it means something to us. Relationships can mean heartbreaks and yet most of us strive to maintain them
And yes, eating and sleeping is very purposeful. Try not to.

Nairalanding is very purposeful as well

the point is that not every human being needs to have prospects of an afterlife to feel that their life is purposeful

The key word here is TO YOU but it's wrong to assume that everyone needs to hope for an afterlife to enjoy their life

I have already explained it. I am a retired Christian. I believe in God and I distance myself from religions because they don't make sense at all

Can I also take you to court for the crimes that your ancestors comitted? Nonsense!

It's not only you who has had such experience, I experience it on a daily basis.

For sure but I could be your mama if I started early enough

First, whether it's better to believe in God or not is a personal decision and choice.
Secondly, the notion that it is too late for anything when you die not believing in God is part of your Christian belief system that uses fear as an effective tool to scare people into buying all theit nonsense

I am a woman of faith, not a woman of fear. I don't believe in a God who punishes people for the mistakes other people made a million of years ago

and you have absolutely no proof that anyone will be punished for believing what they do except for your Bible that is illogical and contradictory in itself

Anyone who believes in a punitive, revengeful, ego-driven God. That's certainly not me

I can enjoy chatting with you NOW even if there is no tomorrow. Whether I believe in eternity or not has no impact on me enjoying whatever I do TODAY.
It's not an opinion, it's a fact. You need the belief in an afterlife to feel that your life has a purpose, millions of other people don't[/b]

You said that we need to believe in God and fear punishment to do good and that implies that only religious folks have morality when it's clearly not so.

darkenedrebel:

Psychology made us understand that people are not necessarily moral. They are only afraid of the punishments that they'll face when they break a rule, or are in most cases just too cowardly to break the rule i.e fear of getting caught are also why people adhere to rules, and not necessarily because they naturally have a predilection towards being moral and upright

I don'T need search engines to counter your point that we need religion to be moral.

Actually most people are considered to be at the stage of conventional morality, not in Nigeria though.

WTF?
Christians have plundered and killed many peoples in the name of their religion. Are you seriously telling me that you don't know about the crimes committed in the name of Christianity? ISIS is a kindegarten club compared to what Christians did to peoples around the world

Whether there is or not, I know plenty of atheists who are morally better developed than religious people.
Again, if religion made people act right Nigeria would be a holy place.

We are social beings and we have always had the need to regulate our coexistence, long before Christianity came into existence

Since you believe in an afterlife, killiing people should not be such a big deal.

It's funny how religious people fear death the most

I also wonder why you cry at burials. Shouldn't you be celebrating the fact that your loved ones are returning to God?

As a mother, my first and foremost priority is to save my child's life If you consider it immoral, blame your Creator for creating motherly instincts as well.

It makes a mother immoral if she does anything to protect her child's life?

[s]typical Christian nonsense with a God who asks people to sacrifice what is dearest to them, their own children because God has a fragile ego and needs people to prove to him that they love him more than anything even though he created them the way they are, weak and immoral. [/s]

I would save my child for sure, if that makes me immoral so be it but it's still funny that you consider a motherly instinct immoral when you are certain that there is an afterlife.
child's play.

Geofavor:
You've just said what has been on my mind for some time now.

A lot of people keep their cool because of their because of their religious beliefs. Take that away, and this world won't contain us anymore.

Everyone would define what is good and bad in his or her own way.

For example, Since there is no god( hence no eternal punishment), some people might think it okay to kill people for fun.

Just imagine a world where no one believes in any god; anything will go in that kinda world. Religion actually keeps the world in check.

The world operates based on the rules of religion. Although some of their rules are absurd, every religion preaches peace in one way or the other. And most people easily adhere to it because they believe it was set by one supreme being or the other. Now, If -- in a world where no one beliefs in a supreme being -- we humans decide to make a peace rule, it will not hold. No one would step down for anyone, No one would want to serve anyone and so on.

Religion is one of the factors that keep this world balanced. Take it out, and humanity is doomed!

Let's just leave people to believe what they want and try to be good people.

darkenedrebel: