@ Chrisbenogor. Everybody knows the devil did all that bad stuff. He planted the dinosaurs here to fool us too. That evil bastard!!

@ deepsight

RIGHT, MANTRAA & TUDOR - I CHALLENGE YOU TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

SINCE YOU BOTH SAY: WE DO NOT KNOW -

Then: ALL POSSIBILITIES SHOULD BE KEPT OPEN RIGHT?

DO YOU DENY THAT CREATION BY A SUPERNATURAL DEITY IS ONE OF THE POSSIBILITIES?

WILL YOU STATE THAT EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY SHOULD BE KEPT OPEN, BUT THIS SINGLE ONE SHOULD BE SHUT?

IF, SO, FOR WHAT REASON MUST WE CONSIDER CHANCE, ALIENS, FORCES, EQUATIONS ETC, AND KICK OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A DEITY.

I NEED TO KNOW IF IT REMAINS A POSSIBILITY WHICH SHOULD BE LOOKED INTO.

NO EVASIVE ANSWERS PLEASE.

My answer to your question is not evasive. It is a straight answer.

Yes, anything is possible.
For example, even the flying speggetti monster is possible.

Now that we have established what is possible we need to look at the factual evidence to find out what is most probable.

It is possible that the universe was created by zeus, yahweh, krishna, aliens or a higher intelligence that we do not know about.
The best way to find out is to try to understand as much we can about ourselves, our history, and the universe we live in.

We have only just begun to ask the real critical and rational questions in search of these answers and look how far we have come in the last 200 years alone.
Progress has been painstakingly slow up until very recently. Not long ago people thought the earth was bigger than the sun and the stars could fall down to earth. Would you still say that is possible? They made these assumptions because they had inadequate evidence. Now we have evidence which was not previously available to us we can make a distinction between what is possible and what is probable according to said evidence. As more evidence is discovered we get a clearer picture of what is true and what is false.

mantraa:

Ok. here's a couple of possibilities.

1.Steady-state expanding : Matter creation rate maintains constant density. Continuous creation out of nothing from nowhere. Exponential expansion.

2. Eternal Inflation (a multiple universe model): A multiverse, based on the concept of cold inflation, in which inflationary events occur at random each with independent initial conditions; some expand into bubble universes supposedly like our entire cosmos. Bubbles nucleate in a spacetime foam.

There are many other hypothesis, but like i said earlier, i do not know the answer, nobody does. There is so much more to learn

Mantraa . . . these are NOT POSSIBILITIES . . .

1. continuous creation out of nothing from nowhere? And you think those who believe in God are more foolish than this?

2. Eternal inflation? Dont you think belief in creation is a far easier and plausible alternative?  

the atheist continuously digs his hole of delusion ever deeper.

@ Chrisbenogor.  Everybody knows the devil did all that bad stuff. He planted the dinosaurs here to fool us too. That evil bastard!!

I guess I am sick of deep sight's antics, posting pictures of birds and butterflies, what will happen if I go on a HIV posting spree here, after all I never heard that the devil created anything.

Chrisbenogor:

Is someone going to explain why the malaria parasite was designed?

Can anyone tell me why the Europeans have largely eliminated this parasite and we cant? Nah lets just blame God no?

Can anyone tell me why the Europeans have largely eliminated this parasite and we cant? Nah lets just blame God no?

Do we first agree that God designed the parasite?

Chrisbenogor:

Do we first agree that God designed the parasite?

Yes . . .

Yes . . .

And as God he knew that Man was not equipped to deal with it?

Abeg I am out of here jo, rubbish

Chrisbenogor:

And as God he knew that Man was not equipped to deal with it?

What nonsense . . . the quinine drugs used to treat malaria are found where? Under your pillow?
How did the white man learn to deal with it?

What nonsense . . . the quinine drugs used to treat malaria are found where? Under your pillow?
How did the white man learn to deal with it?

Errr so lets see, he sits creates this beautiful universe and creates man in his own image and likeness, and then creates a parasite that he knows will be killing about 5 million people yearly, lol sounds more like the work of a sick  old tattooed crackhead 

Chrisbenogor:

Errr so lets see, he sits creates this beautiful universe and creates man in his own image and likeness, and then creates a parasite that he knows will be killing about 5 million people yearly, lol sounds more like the work of a sick  old tattooed crackhead 

that is your opinion . . . you could equally ask why God created man with a limited lifespan, why not let us never die so by now the world would be so choked up we'd be looking for extra space to live on . . . sorry but that's just how stupid your argument sounds. I guess logic flies out of the window when it comes to arguing God.

Back to your issue - the same God who created the malaria parasite also created measures by which man could adequately deal with it. The europeans and Americans and even asians have developed measures to completely eradicate mosquitoes from their countries. It is not God's fault that AFricans are completely useless.

What else? Shall we blame car companies for creating the car that causes accidents on the road? What of the aircraft that kills all on board when accidents occur? Should we prohibit the rain since it causes flooding in some areas? Why did God even create the sun when he knew some would die of heat stroke?
Lets get rid of wind, too many deadly tornadoes.
We dont need soil, people are buried alive digging wells.
God must have been a bad guy when He created lions, didnt He know they were powerful enough to kill humans?

What else have i left out chris? I'm sure we can find a way to blame God for the pencil too.

davidylan:

that is your opinion . . . you could equally ask why God created man with a limited lifespan, why not let us never die so by now the world would be so choked up we'd be looking for extra space to live on . . . sorry but that's just how stupid your argument sounds. I guess logic flies out of the window when it comes to arguing God.

Any time the christian tries to use logic he ends up shooting him self in the foot. . .will you just accept your myth based on faith and stop trying to use logic to explain your ridiculous myth. . . Have you read where the bible says your god's intension was to make man live forever in the mythical garden of eden. . .What will your god had done to them if they kept on procreating according to the myth since he created them to live forever before the serpent came and decieved them?. . . .will he send them to another planet?

Back to your issue - the same God who created the malaria parasite also created measures by which man could adequately deal with it. The europeans and Americans and even asians have developed measures to completely eradicate mosquitoes from their countries. It is not God's fault that AFricans are completely useless.

Actually this is false. . .your god did not create the malaria parasite. . if you have any evidence to show that your god created it then bring it on. . . .He also did not help man develop any measure to eradicate malaria. . .according to your book of myths disases were cause by evil spirits and prayers alone do the magic. . .Your mythical deity claims magic can cure diseases and he instructed people to use the blood of birds, olive oil and prayers mostly to cure their diseases. . . . Man is has been constantly helping himself through science. . .you god exist only on the pages of the bible and has NO role to play in the real world. . . .The people that have helped man provided cure for most of the diseases afflicting us did not consult the bible and they never will. . .

What else? Shall we blame car companies for creating the car that causes accidents on the road? What of the aircraft that kills all on board when accidents occur? Should we prohibit the rain since it causes flooding in some areas? Why did God even create the sun when he knew some would die of heat stroke?
Lets get rid of wind, too many deadly tornadoes.
We dont need soil, people are buried alive digging wells.
God must have been a bad guy when He created lions, didnt He know they were powerful enough to kill humans?

What else have i left out chris? I'm sure we can find a way to blame God for the pencil too.

bla bla bla. . .the sun your god created exist only in the pages of the bible. . . the sun he created, he created to rule over the day. . .revolve round earth. . . and can be stopped. . . . that is not the sun that we know. . . . . chris was just trying to show your deluded goons that you have no point when you talk about how good your good is by only the good things we see around as his special creation and not ascrbing the bad things we see around to him. . .its always. ." hey see the human eye our god did a wonderful job there|. . its never "hey see cancer our god did a wonderful job there". . .

My problem with religious people is that anything they don't understand, they attribute to God. God for them is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. They simply turn your mind off and say God did it.

LOL MAzaje how body, I tire for my brother david oh, lol

why not let us never die so by now the world would be so choked up we'd be looking for extra space to live on . . . sorry but that's just how stupid your argument sounds. I guess logic flies out of the window when it comes to arguing God.

Dude did you forget your copy of genesis? LOL thought we were supposed to live forever until that stupid satan came to spoil the show

Back to your issue - the same God who created the malaria parasite also created measures by which man could adequately deal with it. The europeans and Americans and even asians have developed measures to completely eradicate mosquitoes from their countries. It is not God's fault that AFricans are completely useless

Of course it is God's fault look how dumb we are,
Errrr lets back up a bit and see the logic in what you are saying, we are not supposed to live forever even if it was not God's original plan but let us give you that, are you saying the intelligent being could not think of a more humane and better way to control the worlds population, why resort to a measure that only the stalin's and hitler's would invent?
He might have as well invented a holy gas chamber that way we would die faster and easier if its our death he is after, it just sounds really dumb to create something and create what will kill it and say oh but look at the bush I gave you the answer to your problems there, is this not sounding more and more like the work of a JOKER no?

What else? Shall we blame car companies for creating the car that causes accidents on the road? What of the aircraft that kills all on board when accidents occur? Should we prohibit the rain since it causes flooding in some areas? Why did God even create the sun when he knew some would die of heat stroke?
Lets get rid of wind, too many deadly tornadoes.
We dont need soil, people are buried alive digging wells.
God must have been a bad guy when He created lions, didnt He know they were powerful enough to kill humans?

LOL david I am sure if God created the car he would have made the one that only the Europeans can drive and then make sure all those that grew in africa came with very bad brakes lol, don't be too myopic on the issue, deep sight was going on and on about how beautiful the world is and was concluded it had to be intelligent design, so I am trying to show people how not beautiful the world is, should that mean there was an opposite God

What else have i left out chris?

Yes you did , try this for size

its never "hey see cancer our god did a wonderful job there". . .

Chrisbenogor:

LOL MAzaje how body, I tire for my brother david oh, lol
Yes you did , try this for size

I dey ohh. . . . This guys will always lie to themselves and bring meaningless analogies just to rationalize their delusions. . .He brought up the problem of an over populated world forgetting that according to the myth he believes in humans were supposed to live for ever. . . .So he belives his god created malaria as a means to check the human population forgetting that there are better and more humane ways his god can take away humane life that is if the god hypothesis were true. . .why not take the life of men in their sleep. . .why use methods that are painful and destructive?. . . a lot of people have died in their sleep. . .he talked about god creating malaria as a means to check the worlds over population and then contradicted himself by saying that his god provided man with the knowledge of finding a cure. . .which cure exactly. . . if prayer, using olive oil and the blood of animals as recomended by his god cures malaria or any other disease then he should come and show us. . . 

What about Sudden death Syndrome in babies. . .A situation were a lot of babies just die off for no obvious reasons at all. . .is his god also resonsible for that too. . . This people will rather blame themselves and everything around than accept the fact that there god just ins't there. . . .deluded people. . .

Mazaje and chris, it's an enemy that has done this. . .satan is responsible. .lol

@ Chris, the argument about fatalities in the world is so empty that i am not going to address it.

For the first time you have raised a point, i am deeply sorry to say, is not worthy of a nursery school child.

Bros, no insult intended o, but i really mean it when i say i can't believe anybody could pursue such an infantile line of reasoning.

Remember - no insult intended - don't like to insult people.

davidylan:

that is your opinion . . . you could equally ask why God created man with a limited lifespan, why not let us never die so by now the world would be so choked up we'd be looking for extra space to live on . . . sorry but that's just how stupid your argument sounds. I guess logic flies out of the window when it comes to arguing God.

Back to your issue - the same God who created the malaria parasite also created measures by which man could adequately deal with it. The europeans and Americans and even asians have developed measures to completely eradicate mosquitoes from their countries. It is not God's fault that AFricans are completely useless.

What else? Shall we blame car companies for creating the car that causes accidents on the road? What of the aircraft that kills all on board when accidents occur? Should we prohibit the rain since it causes flooding in some areas? Why did God even create the sun when he knew some would die of heat stroke?
Lets get rid of wind, too many deadly tornadoes.
We dont need soil, people are buried alive digging wells.
God must have been a bad guy when He created lions, didnt He know they were powerful enough to kill humans?

What else have i left out chris? I'm sure we can find a way to blame God for the pencil too.

David, you did very well to rationalize this for Chris, but honestly, you should not have bothered. Any body who can point to fatalities in the world as an indicator that there is no Ultimate Intelligent Uncaused Cause is really yet to go to school. Especially considering that this thread never said anything about the Abrahamic God per se.

I certainly will never be responding to any points raised by him again, unless and untill he openly admits what a silly line of reasoning this particular one has been.

That is really LAME. You painted a picture of a beautiful and orderly world "intelligently" designed for purpose. A simple look around shows you the not so beautiful and chaos and all you can say is "go back to nursery school". I laugh!
Why don't you tell us the beauty and intelligence behind earthquakes and tsunamis.

That is really LAME. You painted a picture of a beautiful and orderly world "intelligently" designed for purpose. A simple look around shows you the not so beautiful and chaos and all you can say is "go back to nursery school". I laugh!
Why don't you tell us the beauty and intelligence behind earthquakes and tsunamis.

Deep Sight:

@ Chris, the argument about fatalities in the world is so empty that i am not going to address it.

For the first time you have raised a point, i am deeply sorry to say, is not worthy of a nursery school child.

Bros, no insult intended o, but i really mean it when i say i can't believe anybody could pursue such an infantile line of reasoning.

Remember - no insult intended - don't like to insult people.

Please let us not even talk of lines of arguments, seriously I can take david's antics and even noetic's because to an extent I get where they are coming from. Everyone has got their own way in which they see things but to open up a thread to say people are unperceptive because they refuse to  believe that  which you have no evidence but assertions for is really pushing the lines of reasoning.
To you beautiful means intelligent design, that is entirely up to you, selling it to other people is an entirely different kettle of fish. You put up a picture and say look there this butterfly, look how beautiful it is , oh there must be God, that my dear friend reeks of the reasoning of a little baby whose nerves get calm by the jingling of toys above its cot.
Perception differs from place to place,and from person to person. My argument was really simple, it is more likely everything got together by chance than by being intelligently designed, an intelligent designer would have done a better job than this, oh but you cannot comprehend it so maybe I will try baby language bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, happy now?

@ Chris - am not going back on my vow - i will not address anything you say on this forum again, unless you see and admit your big goof.

Deep Sight:
Any body who can point to fatalities in the world as an indicator that there is no Ultimate Intelligent Uncaused Cause is really yet to go to school.  

But someone who points at a butterfly's wings as an indicator of an "utimate intelligent uncaused cause" is?  U, my friend, are the new NL king of Dogma!! your own na even remixed dogma. The height if irrationality. U are a pretty ignorant dude. I think it needs to be said. U're a dumb fukc!!

That was intended as an insult!

Saying someone is yet to go to school and in the same post talkin some self righteous shit about not wanting to insult people. Are u really this dumb or are u just faking it? your arguments are beyond silly. That grail message u have read is making u feel like some intellectual champ, abi? olodo!!

That is really LAME. You painted a picture of a beautiful and orderly world "intelligently" designed for purpose. A simple look around shows you the not so beautiful and chaos and all you can say is "go back to nursery school". I laugh!
Why don't you tell us the beauty and intelligence behind earthquakes and tsunamis.

Leave the dude jare, he is just on the top of a big tree that is under the mountain of common sense and he thinks he is at the pinnacle.

Tudór:

That is really LAME. You painted a picture of a beautiful and orderly world "intelligently" designed for purpose. A simple look around shows you the not so beautiful and chaos and all you can say is "go back to nursery school". I laugh!
Why don't you tell us the beauty and intelligence behind earthquakes and tsunamis.

So you too will tell me you are not aware of the balancing that such natural disasters deliver in nature?

You too will tell me that even watching Discovery channel has not shown you how necessary predators are for a balanced ecosystem?

You too will join the excommunicated Chrisbenegor in imagining the earth as a toy, and not a balanced cosmic body needing all the balancing forces of winds, volcanic eruptions, predators, etc to maintain its existence?

Tudor - because i am fond of you only, i will give you ONE chance to admit that this is a crappy line of reasoning!

Especially when you are ALL aware i have not sought to prove the existence of the "good" Abrahamic God!

I give you one chance only, and that means ONE post, otherwise i will realize that we simply are not on the same wavelength in terms of basic reasoning powers.

@ Chris - am not going back on my vow - i will not address anything you say on this forum again, unless you see and admit your big goof.

I don't bloody care, go to my profile and read all my posts on this website , I never hesitate to admit I am wrong. You are fairly new to this website so you cannot pull wool over my eyes just yet, I see through you bro I really do.

But someone who points at a butterfly's wings as an indicator of an "utimate intelligent uncaused cause" is?

You can just imagine oh, this guy always gets on my nerves, if he is not saying  0 + God = Universe he is saying that butterfly wings = intelligent uncaused cause. Very very shallow lines of argument, he just wants to play double agent, have a field day when huxley is attacking noetic and yet comeback here to be david's pal.
Sometimes I just think that if brains were dynamite he would not have enough to blow a wig off his head.

Krayola:

But someone who points at a butterfly's wings as an indicator of an "utimate intelligent uncaused cause" is?  U, my friend, are the new NL king of Dogma!! your own na even remixed dogma. The height if irrationality. U are a pretty ignorant dude. I think it needs to be said. U're a dumb fukc!!

That was intended as an insult!

Saying someone is yet to go to school and in the same post talkin some self righteous shit about not wanting to insult people. Are u really this dumb or are u just faking it? your arguments are beyond silly. That grail message u have read is making u feel like some intellectual champ, abi? olodo!!

You, i entirely pardon. You have always been a gentleman, and so you are entitled to burst your banks. Especially when you have some justification, haven seen me pour angry invectives on Chris.

So you, i will not be mad at, notwithstanding your invectives.

You, i will respond to, and rationally only. Never a bad word for you.

  1. Butterfly wings are about patterns. Patterns are what even mathematics uses to arrive at precise conclusions. But we will come back to that.

  2. What staggers me in the arguments put forward by Chris is the fact that he, and you all, are fully aware that i have never sought to prove the existence of a "good" abrahamic God. Thus pointing to natural disasters and plagues, is just shocking, when we are talking of an uncaused cause. You may have noted that although i have in my arguments attributed intelligence to God, i have never attributed "goodness" to that cause. This is because i believe in duality and that includes both good and evil.

I may have flown off the handle this morning, but men, i just could not believe that obvious planetary convulsions necessary for balance, would mean that the universe had no cause. . . especially considering that i have never said anything about a merciful, good, abrahamic God.

It made me feel no body has been listening properly, and thus that i have been wasting my time.

P.S. The Grail Message is a good book, but not my creed o. There's much in it that's bunkum as well.

Dude, i take no offense at your words.

@ deepsight. I apologize for that rant. But ur "i'm so smart and y'all are just silly" demeanor was gettin on my last nerve. Abeg no vex.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want and make arguments for it. But you should not, imo, pretend that u have all the answers. No one does. There are several other possibilities, some of which make more sense than ur uncaused cause theory.

14 billion (or whatever billion it is)years is along time, We know tooo little about what is going on. "I don't know" is the most honest answer to most of the questions we have. We just don't know. What registers to u as obvious isn't so obvious to the rest of us. I've heard arguments for the existence of God that are pretty convincing. Your's isn't, to me. But then I know what convinces we might be garbage to you,so I won't suggest u're being silly, or need to go back to school, for not agreeing with me. Everyone here wants to have a good debate. . . but u're not goin to get away with being rational only when it is convenient, and dogmatic the very next instant.

Krayola:

@ deepsight. I apologize for that rant. But your "i'm so smart and y'all are just silly" demeanor was gettin on my last nerve. Abeg no vex.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want and make arguments for it. But you should not, imo, pretend that u have all the answers. No one does. There are several other possibilities, some of which make more sense than your uncaused cause theory.

14 billion (or whatever billion it is)years is along time, We know tooo little about what is going on. "I don't know" is the most honest answer to most of the questions we have. We just don't know. What registers to u as obvious isn't so obvious to the rest of us. I've heard arguments for the existence of God that are pretty convincing. Your's isn't, to me. But then I know what convinces we might be garbage to you,so I won't suggest u're being silly, or need to go back to school, for not agreeing with me. Everyone here wants to have a good debate. . . but u're not goin to get away with being rational only when it is convenient, and dogmatic the very next instant.

Thanks man, much appreciated.

Chrisbenogor:

I don't bloody care, go to my profile and read all my posts on this website , I never hesitate to admit I am wrong. You are fairly new to this website so you cannot pull wool over my eyes just yet, I see through you bro I really do.
You can just imagine oh, this guy always gets on my nerves, if he is not saying 0 + God = Universe he is saying that butterfly wings = intelligent uncaused cause. Very very shallow lines of argument, he just wants to play double agent, have a field day when huxley is attacking noetic and yet comeback here to be david's pal.
Sometimes I just think that if brains were dynamite he would not have enough to blow a wig off his head.

Chris - i apologize. I was out of order. For a moment there, i really felt like: i have never said a word about goodness or mercy, or the abrahamic God, so why will this fellow be using the existence of evil to debunk the existence of a prime mover. . . it really got under my skin, but i guess i was wrong to speak that way: I am sorry.

Deep Sight:

1. Butterfly wings are about patterns. Patterns are what even mathematics uses to arrive at precise conclusions. But we will come back to that.

Yes, let me return briefly to my Butterfly wings, the thing for which you have all slaughtered me. Perhaps i can explain the reasoning better like this.

Somebody along the thread (Dudu4space, i think) said that since time is eternal, everything that can happen will happen, without the need for the existence of God.

That was actually a very brilliant thing for him to say, although i did not admit it at first. But the problem with his statement remains -

Wait for it -

Butterfly wings! Hang on, don't get out the knives yet. . . i will explain. . .

Let's look at it this way.

You have in your hand a clump of fifty pebbles.

You begin to throw them all on the floor such that they form random patterns on the ground. Such as these dots below.
. . . .
. . , .
. . . . .
, . . .
. . .

You gather the pebbles and fling them on the floor over and over again, endlessly. They continue to form scattered random patterns of any description.

I realized this morning, that even if you fling those pebbles on the floor a zilliion zillion times, you will never, not in all eternity, have them form something like this:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. .
. .
. .
. .
. .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And yet this is a fairly simple pattern. But it evinces great linear order, precision and structure. If you think this is a wrong argument, you try spending the rest of your life throwing pebbles randomly on the floor. If you ever come up with the square above, i will either give you $200, 000 or have you arrested as a con artist.

You will never get the square above.

This is why very complex patterns which show particular hallmarks of linear design, can scarcely be attributed to chance.

If you go back to the butterfly image - observe closely a number of things:

1. It has dots of colors that repeat themselves with absolute accuracy on each wing, each in perfect symetry with the corresponding color dot on the opposite wing

2. It has three circles on each side, each containing a coiled pattern

3. It has two orange bands on the top side of each wing, perfectly repeated in symetrically on each side

4. It has three lines of a wavelike pattern at the bottom of each wing and these flow symetrically across from one side to another.

5. It has a curved white rainbow again repeated with perfect symetrical precision on each side.

Brothers, it will be a cold day in hell, before any one of you could convince yourselves that all that is the product of chance.

It seems quite clear to the rational as well as perceptive mind, that no random effect could ever have come up with the butterfly wings.

That is cast in stone reasoning, gents.

Not even an eternity of throwing random pebbles would produce that (apologies to Dudu).

But if you have perhaps a magnet beneath the floor you are throwing the pebbles on, that magnet could polarise them and organise them in straight bands of Positive and Negative lines, thus creating the square. Do you understand that such a force, such a magnet inherent within the substance of existence itself, is what we refer to as the uncaused cause. . . God?

@deepsight
The selection process that causes the patterns we see today in life is evolution by natural selection over millions of generations, not plain chance.
This is a mistake that a lot of people make when first trying to understand how evolution works.

Simply put. Using your analogy of the square dots. If each square dot was a life, but in the centre of the square the life had a less chance of surviving and reproducing as the life around the edges, then eventually over generations the life in the centre would become extinct and  only the life at the edges would survive, hence the square formation. You can observe this in life all around you.  99% of all life on this planet has become extinct and are still being made extinct through natural selection. millions of slight mutations are constantly taking place in all life forms and most of them lead nowhere but the 1% of mutations that help that lifeform survive and reproduce are passed on to the next generation etc etc. Times this by a few billion generations and you have your butterfly's wings, considering the life span of a typical butterfly. A lot of butterfly wings look like eyes which can confuse predators, thus helping the butterfly to survive. The butterflies that did not evolve these patterns could not reproduce because were eaten.

Have you heard of the evolution of the peppered moth which is an example of evolution in action:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

"The evolution of the peppered moth over the last two hundred years has been studied in detail. Originally, the vast majority of peppered moths had light colouration, which effectively camouflaged them against the light-coloured trees and lichens which they rested upon. However, because of widespread pollution during the Industrial Revolution in England, many of the lichens died out, and the trees that peppered moths rested on became blackened by soot, causing most of the light-coloured moths, or typica, to die off from predation. At the same time, the dark-coloured, or melanic, moths, carbonaria, flourished because of their ability to hide on the darkened trees.

Since then, with improved environmental standards, light-coloured peppered moths have again become common, but the dramatic change in the peppered moth's population has remained a subject of much interest and study, and has led to the coining of the term industrial melanism to refer to the genetic darkening of species in response to pollutants. As a result of the relatively simple and easy-to-understand circumstances of the adaptation, the peppered moth has become a common example used in explaining or demonstrating natural selection to laypeople and classroom students."