winner01:
Most of my relatives are muslims. I have spoken to everyone of them at a time. The best thing is to pray for them and let them see you living the life of God. About 7 or 8 of them are now in christ.

christians also convert to islam..its nt special nau
people switch their belief constantly..or dont they?

You dont mock people out of their delusion, atheists do this all the time.

u dont threaten people into ur belief/delusion(eternal damnnation)
christians do this all the time...
Also they resort to their favourite scripture ''psalms 14:1''..
Acts to make the person who doesnt share their belief feel inferior..

It can only be as a result of insecurity not commitment to human life.

this can also be said for christians

Christians evangelize because they have a mandate.

and atheists are ?
We have a duty to humanity..enabling the continued survival of our species..the same way u feel jesus gave u an order to do so..we cannot see our fellow human dying nd feel unconcerned

We dont force people to accept Jesus

now yes...before hell no..
The history of christianity has its bad sides also..

and most importantly, we dont mock people for their beliefs

christians do..like a lot

No Man has the power to convert another. God is the only One who can change a mans heart.

christians at times belief wit god in them they can do alll things...

The problem is what does it matter to you if you live your life in a lie or not.

if i live my life in a lie...ive wasted the one chance given to me by both my parents and nature..
I shud contribute to the growth,betterment,nd survival of my species..

There is no single thing in this world that atheists do better than christians so what basis do they have

u said it urselff....no single thing..including immoral acts...corruption murder etc

. If I open a thread on what atheists do better, you start hearing annoying stuffs like:
You tend to love better, understand the world better, work harder e.t.c
wtf! like seriously! atheism does this better only with their mouth.

in astrophysics atheists are breaking grounds...
Many things
an atheist fred hollow restored
the eyesight of thousands of humans which ur god refused to do..atheists are not the problem of earth..

Look "it matters a lot" is what you are saying cos atheist leaders have said it and regurgitated it over and over.

nt because someone has said it..these are my own findings

The truth is that it does not matter

i believe it does.
Once you realize that your life is limited and precious, you then extrapolate that onto others and begin to understand the value of their lives as well.

If humans just exist accidentally to exist, then all actions are equal, either good or bad.

nop..if an action can hinder the survival nd betterment of our species,,it becomes wrong/bad..

You people are terribly ignorant that it is in many peoples nature to be bad,

seeking the easy way out to survive lets say stealing is sometimes natural to humans...
Bt thats where the human intellect nd common sense comes in...
E.g we can individually ask ourselves..stealing is it wrong or right? ...if i steal from this person have i helped his survival or put a block in it?
Would i like to be stolen from?
If u ask 100 persons if they'd likke to be stolen from...i doubt anybody will say yes...apply that to murder...etc
if everyone in the planet earth runs around killing each other...will humanity continue to exist or cease to exist?

... some people derive satisfaction in stealing what does not belong to them, cracking peoples heads open, blowing up buildings for money etc.

thats where the laws of the society comes in with a strong criminal justice system.

Not everyone wants to live that socially dictated life of go to school, get a job, have kids and die. Some people want to be FREETHINKERS. Yeah I said freethinkers cos those are the people who really question everything in life. The only things atheists question is religion.

atheists question everytin..if they dont from where did agnostics come from? If atheists dnt question everything why are atheists in various fields of life trying to find out the meaning of this and that?...

And yet in your deluded minds, you feel you can judge such people for the few years of fulfilment/satisfaction they want to live?

i am no judge..bt anyone who breaks the moral code of the society needs to face the results of his actions nd take responsibility of them...not blaming it on satan or anyone...if u believe so much in gods eternal punishment then whats the need for a criminal system?..law enforcement agencies in the world?
Why dont we jst all leave the crime commiters to ur god and see how the world would turn out...
A criminal(a serial killer) may kill for 98 percent of his earth days and decide to completely accpept jesus in the last two percent of his earth days and be good..where wud he go to in the afterlife?

The universe did not care to create you, your existence is meaningless. So why does it matter what you do or what meaning each accidental cell bag makes from life. What position are you in to judge the meaning which other people have given to life?

something is meaningless doesnt mean it cant be given meaning..
The question that we should be asking ourselves is the more profound one: "Given that we do exist, what are we going to accomplish with our existence?"

The fact that you all cling firmly to meaning in life is enough proof that there is a God, for you cant use meaningless to proclaim meaning.

it is not enof proof..
Meaningless at times proclaim meaning...the north star(polaris) has no natural meaning in its position..bt due to the precession in the earths axis..it found meaning and became a navigation guide....
In the next 26k years it wud lose that meaning thru another precession in the earths axis.

What is our situation? We find that we are a race of approximately 8 billion people. We inhabit a chunk of iron, rock and water that is floating though the vacuum of space. The universe we exist within has a volume of perhaps 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic light years. To our knowledge there are no other intelligent, conscious beings in this universe. Even if there are, they may be millions or billions of light years away, making them completely unreachable for the time being...

...
We are, potentially, the only intelligent species in the entire universe(if the quantum multiverse is false) . What are we going to do with our existence? Have you ever considered it? Have you ever thought about the goals of the human race?
I tink our goals shud be survival and making heaven on earth(betterment of life)
i fink this is important..because right now we have suceeded in doing the opposite...

Atheist are not cold blooded mammals..all humans have morals...its part of our survival instinct

KingEbukasBlog:



Your post is suffused with logical fallacies - strawman , Hasty generalization and short gun argumentation

I'm a progressive creationist , there are old earth creationists and new earth creationists . There are also theistic evolutionists

Plus there are people who have different views and opinions about Hell

What the hell does it mean to be a progressive creationist?

felixomor:
Shallowness on display!
Please o, how did u arrive at your estimated christian view for the "age of the earth" or age universe so to say ?

Please explain in detail,

How old is the Universe?

Ranchhoddas:
How old is the Universe?

My dear, its ur colleague who stated it, u met me asking a question.
Please direct the question at ur colleague!
Or u want to answer my earlier question.
Go ahead if u want to.

felixomor:

My dear, its ur colleague who stated it, u met me asking a question. Please direct the question at ur colleague! Or u want to answer my earlier question. Go ahead if u want to.

How old is the damn Universe?

Ranchhoddas:
How old is the damn Universe?

Must the universe have an age?

raphieMontella:
1.Christians and muslims ...if creation had supposedly stopped since far back as 10000 years ago,why are stars like FU ORIONIS being birthed inside the last 100 years.?
2..Christians if you were born in Afghanistan to muslim parents which God wud u have called the true God?
Muslims if you were born in the Vatican city(a country) or Greece to staunch christian parents which God wud u have called the true God?
3...Christians do you believe Muhammed rode a flying horse and divided the moon into two?
Muslims do u believe yahweh made a donkey talk?

4..Christians and Muslims do u believe the sun orbits the earth as ur holybooks said it did or do u believe the earth orbits the sun?

5...Christians and Muslims ..if the universe is jst approx. 10000 years old...then how does the light from
the ANDROMEDA GALAXY which is supposed to take 2.2 MILLION YEARS to reach the earth reaches us?
6...Christians why dont u believe and fear the islamic hell and Muslims why dont u believe and fear the christian hell? ....

7...Christians and Muslims ..why did ur holybooks make no mention of HOMO NEANDERTHALS? And how is it possible that the fossils of them are being found if the earth is jst 10000 years old?
cc:winner01 kingsebukablog 4evergod felixomor malvisguy212 image123 Empiree worldword etc..

Would you mind creating a thread STRICTLY for both of us so we can just argue on this ONCE and for all? Would you mind giving it a try?

Just try.

promise10:

Would you mind creating a thread STRICTLY for both of us so we can just argue on this ONCE and for all? Would you mind giving it a try?

Just try.

if u have answers to this exact set of questions..kindly answer them here..
If u want us to debate the full bible and the logic of ur faith..ans this to an extent first...or create the thread and invite me..

felixomor:


Must the universe have an age?

What are afraid of? Tell us the age will you?

Ranchhoddas:
What are afraid of? Tell us the age will you?

The righteous are as bold as lions;
Answer my question first, there is no fear anywhere. The answer u need has its foundation in ur own answer.

felixomor:


The righteous are as bold as lions;
Answer my question first, there is no fear anywhere. The answer u need has its foundation in ur own answer.

I give up!

Ranchhoddas:
I give up!

Eiya!

raphieMontella:

well said..

Well, i hope that is knowledge gained for you, and that you do not go someplace else or sometime else to restate the previous. The emergence of a star or planet is not contradictory to any Bible claim.

0.2 of a populace...u know christians in afghan?...so u wud have been a christian..
Even in 100 percent islam countries..u wud have seen jesus as the real god?
Ryt?

Exactly.

ok...it also does nt take away the fact that muhammed can be the real dude

What is the real dude? i have never contested his existence.

the bolded words give description of an orbital movement of the sun..

WHAT? Psalm 19v4 for instance is not even referring directly to the sun and yet you bold it as describing Orbital movement? Talk about forcing statements to suit yourself. What does running a race have to do with orbits? Like i have already told you, SUNRISE and SUNSET remain VALID expressions used by all and sundry till tomorrow. That takes nothing away from your geography, neither does it make anyone wrong or ignorant. You seem to lack an understanding of basic communication principles.

the sun stood still nd didnt go down the whole day such that night never came till victory was attained...in other words...the movement(orbiting) of the sun determines a day...
Saying it was written at the level man understood the workings of the universe means that the scripture of joshua was nt divinely inspired...
A creator wud know how his creations operate..and an ominiscient one wud have known these scriptures wud also be for future generations nt only that one....this proves it was written by man's initiatives..

Same again as above, simple SUNRISE and SUNSET. The sun simply did not set, it all depends on how you look at the cup, half full or half empty. This is a non-issue, only unserious people dwell on this. A good teacher doesn't teach according to his knowledge but according to his audience. If i go blowing grammar in my rural village, i do not communicate. i come down to their level, their understanding, what they can relate to, not my phds and degrees. If you miss the point of the passage and all you can whine about are nonentities of the sun's direction and location, poor you.

as the sun goes forth it its strength..a kind of movement pertaining to earth....

i've always seen that in the context of INTENSITY, brightness. Your perspective of movement is welcome anyway, the sun does move. Who cares anyway. The knowledge/ignorance of the sun's itinerary did not stop my grandfather from all his life achievement and fulfillment, neither does it take anyone to heaven or hell. You may have a mark or 2 in O'level geography though. Abeg, talk something important if there is.

i didnt want to initially include sun set and sunrise verses..like 3 more like that...
Bt this one kinda stood out..
He commanded the sun not to rise..nd it didnt...(in relation to the earth)
a divinely inspired scripture may have said smtin like
which commanded the earth to be stable nd the sun shineth or ariseth not..
Or smtin like
which commanded the earth not to turn in thy own self nd the sun ariseth not
or better still(a creator given word)
which commanded the earth to not spin(turn) like a ball and the stable sun gaveth not her light..

As usual, the atheists have defined God without knowing one or giving an example, God does not fit their definition, therefore there is no God. You seem to know a lot of how God supposed to look like or talk like.

they do...especially joshua nd the psalmists...
Scriptures are supposed to be divinely inspired..directed by the holy spirit,,exact words of god etc..
So giving them a man-like idea is nt fitting for a creator god inspired work.

When you play a wooden flute, it is played by a human even though it may not sound like human and wood does not talk. i don't even know what to say to help your frustrations. Just find something important to talk about.

everybody does tho not to the extent u claim we do..bt they dont claim to get the idea or are directed by god or smtin likke dat....and they know how it truly works...

For someone to ignorantly say that everybody knows how the heart truly works, or is it how the earth truly works. It renders me speechless, truly pathetic thinking.

according to the bible...god made the universe in six literal days....and he created adam on the sixth day..so u can do the maths...
I jst gave it ten k years..
Its even younger than that frm ur biblle....lets say 6100 years old...so answer why that happens if the universe is 6k years?

To "make" is not exactly the same as to "create". Also, i would not be so quick to say 'LITERAL' if i were you.

if the economice issues they describe are not true..then they may nt be economics issues to tackle...the real economic issues may be hidden frm both parties...
Bt the two parties claim to knw the true economic issues nd blame the other opposition for it or label the other opposition as a lier(the economic issues brought by the other)

So you do agree that there are "real" economic issues despite the needless "if"? Their different opinions and perspective do not make the economic issues unreal. Bringing it home again, your idea and thought that if there are different views about God or hell or heaven, then there is no God or hell or heaven holds no water.

no they are not modern homo sapiens..
If the bible/quran said we started offf as homo sapiens since the inception of the universe
From where did they come from?

Good, homo neanderthals are not homo sapien. Who cares where they came from? i'm not an anthropologist or whoever else may care. We both agree that homo neanderthals are not homo sapien.

Image123:


Well, i hope that is knowledge gained for you, and that you do not go someplace else or sometime else to restate the previous. The emergence of a star or planet is not contradictory to any Bible claim.

i aint like that bro..even science gains new knowledge so

Exactly.

so u mean if u were in mauritinia which is 100% islam..u would have been a christian?
If so why hasnt god reached out to those there?

What is the real dude? i have never contested his existence.

real dude=true pathway to the true god

WHAT? Psalm 19v4 for instance is not even referring directly to the sun and yet you bold it as describing Orbital movement?

bro it was..abeg abeg abeg it was..
Read ending of 4-verse 6...clearly stated..

Talk about forcing statements to suit yourself. What does running a race have to do with orbits?

in an athletic field in a stadium..a race like 800m...do they return to their starting point? And at times pass it..?
Race was a description for its orbit
If it was nt talking bout the sun why was sun,morning,sky and heat stated?

You seem to lack an understanding of basic communication principles.

t was giving a detail of a geocentric earth..saying what the sun does everyday

If i go blowing grammar in my rural village, i do not communicate. i come down to their level, their understanding, what they can relate to, not my phds and degrees. If you miss the point of the passage and all you can whine about are nonentities of the sun's direction and location, poor you.

u forgot the director of this speech is supposed to be ominipotent present scient etc..
Are u ominipotent scient or present?

i've always seen that in the context of INTENSITY, brightness. Your perspective of movement is welcome anyway, the sun does move. Who cares anyway. The knowledge/ignorance of the sun's itinerary did not stop my grandfather from all his life achievement and fulfillment, neither does it take anyone to heaven or hell. You may have a mark or 2 in O'level geography though. Abeg, talk something important if there is.

but it does prove it may not have been divinely inspired...
U never can tell since it is nt showing a creator talking

As usual, the atheists have defined God without knowing one or giving an example, God does not fit their definition, therefore there is no God. You seem to know a lot of how God supposed to look like or talk like.

lol..u know am right there...
Nevertheless a creator who knows how his shvts work shud have been more detailed or added a future disclaimer because it wont be so in the future..

When you play a wooden flute, it is played by a human even though it may not sound like human and wood does not talk. i don't even know what to say to help your frustrations.

lol bruh calm down..
On a flute...the holes are as follows
do re mi fa so la ti do..
If u created the flute..know the future pple who will use flute etc(put all the qualities of ur god)...
Will u still tell me that if i blow for ''re'' i will get ''la'' and that if i blow for ''ti'' i will get ''skelewu''
?

For someone to ignorantly say that everybody knows how the heart truly works, or is it how the earth truly works. It renders me speechless, truly pathetic thinking.

hey bro u said everybody does not me!

To "make" is not exactly the same as to "create". Also, i would not be so quick to say 'LITERAL' if i were you.

make is basically the same as create..
Nd i didnt want to take it literally..
But a number of biblical verses affirmed it meant 6 earth days...like 6 days...

So you do agree that there are "real" economic issues despite the needless "if"? Their different opinions and perspective do not make the economic issues unreal

Since all the economic issues brought forward are false.
There could be many real economic issues
there could be just one economic issue...and there could be no economic issue ...u never can tell

Bringing it home again, your idea and thought that if there are different views about God or hell or heaven, then there is no God or hell or heaven holds no water.

im not a gnostic atheist...am an agnostic atheist...i dont know if God or Gods exist..

Good, homo neanderthals are not homo sapien. Who cares where they came from? i'm not an anthropologist or whoever else may care. We both agree that homo neanderthals are not homo sapien.

they existed before us..
Bt creation accounts say we are the only and first type of humans to do so..
So who is lying?

Image123:


Well, i hope that is knowledge gained for you, and that you do not go someplace else or sometime else to restate the previous. The emergence of a star or planet is not contradictory to any Bible claim.

because of the flat earth the bible teaches...there are flat earth christians...
Asin a huge number of them...
Frm all statements on the shape of earth and space in the bible...
It can be concluded that the writers of the bible viewed the earth as below

raphieMontella:

i aint like that bro..even science gains new knowledge so

Good.

so u mean if u were in mauritinia which is 100% islam..u would have been a christian?
If so why hasnt god reached out to those there?

You don't seem to have anything worth noting to say, do you?

real dude=true pathway to the true god

You don't waste time telling Dangote that his riches may be fake.

bro it was..abeg abeg abeg it was..
Read ending of 4-verse 6...clearly stated..

The part you bolded in verse4 was not.

in an athletic field in a stadium..a race like 800m...do they return to their starting point? And at times pass it..?
Race was a description for its orbit
If it was nt talking bout the sun why was sun,morning,sky and heat stated?

And it mentioned a 800m race right, not a 50m or a 100m or a 5km? Let's suit you abi?

t was giving a detail of a geocentric earth..saying what the sun does everyday

It gave no such DETAIL. It simply praised God for His works that show that He is great.

u forgot the director of this speech is supposed to be ominipotent present scient etc..
Are u ominipotent scient or present?

So unfortunate that you missed that clear point. In communication, you come down to people's understanding and level, to what they can relate to. You don't speak english to someone who doesn't understand it. You do not have to be omniscient to use commonsense.

but it does prove it may not have been divinely inspired...
U never can tell since it is nt showing a creator talking

Give me an example of something divinely inspired that makes you arrive at this ridiculous conclusion of proof?

lol..u know am right there...
Nevertheless a creator who knows how his shvts work shud have been more detailed or added a future disclaimer because it wont be so in the future..
lol bruh calm down..
On a flute...the holes are as follows
do re mi fa so la ti do..
If u created the flute..know the future pple who will use flute etc(put all the qualities of ur god)...
Will u still tell me that if i blow for ''re'' i will get ''la'' and that if i blow for ''ti'' i will get ''skelewu''
?

You're not making sense here. The Bible was written by men, not God. It was authored and inspired(God breathed) by God. God can inspire a song a person is singing for instance, or a rod like Moses'. That's kind of how inspiration works. God uses it, possesses it as it were. It is not a priority or headache or big deal to tell creatures the shape of the earth or the itinerary of the sun. It never helped anybody make it in life. Life is more serious than you seem to be taking it. You can be a Prof, you can be a President, you can be a world champion, you can marry, give birth, go to Heaven or hell without giving a care the size of the sun or it's location. Get serious.

hey bro u said everybody does not me!

YOU said "everybody does tho not to the extent u claim we do..bt they dont claim to get the idea or are directed by god or smtin likke dat....and they know how it truly works..."

make is basically the same as create..
Nd i didnt want to take it literally..
But a number of biblical verses affirmed it meant 6 earth days...like 6 days...

Not the same, though can SOMETIMES be used as synonyms. You can make a horse do many things without necessarily creating the horse. You can make food without necessarily creating it. The food has been there all the while, your bed has been there all the years. Doesn't mean you cannot make it tomorrow. The words "create" and "make" are deliberately used and not interchanged in the Genesis account in the original renderings. God MADE the lights on the fourth day, what was going on the previous days that make you sure they were literal 24hour days? There is judgement day for instance, and the day of God's power, these are not literal 24hour days and Bible students know that. Don't be quick to assert what you know little of, that is blind faith.

Since all the economic issues brought forward are false.
There could be many real economic issues
there could be just one economic issue...and there could be no economic issue ...u never can tell

It is plain you are confused. Sorry about that.

im not a gnostic atheist...am an agnostic atheist...i dont know if God or Gods exist..

A sinner is a sinner, they are both confused and going to the same place jare. You don't know like you said, and you are not listening to us that know.

they existed before us..
Bt creation accounts say we are the only and first type of humans to do so..
So who is lying?

It did? Show me where. Evidently, you are the one lying.

raphieMontella:

because of the flat earth the bible teaches...there are flat earth christians...
Asin a huge number of them...
Frm all statements on the shape of earth and space in the bible...
It can be concluded that the writers of the bible viewed the earth as below

Yet the Bible clearly refers to the earth shape as circular. How did you miss that? Anyway, don't bother me with that. The Bible's aim is not to help you ace your SS1 geography. It contains more vital thoughts than that.

winner01:
Then ill tell him its a lie. If he sounds so convinced, ill make my findings. If I discover its a lie and he's still pretty sure about it, then its a case of delusion. Ill leave him to live his life and not mock him everyday of my life.

I just love this they caught U in the trap

Image123:


Yet the Bible clearly refers to the earth shape as circular. How did you miss that? Anyway, don't bother me with that. The Bible's aim is not to help you ace your SS1 geography. It contains more vital thoughts than that.

lol bruh....is the earth circular?

Image123:


You don't seem to have anything worth noting to say, do you?

ts a simple statement sir..
since god(christian one) reveals himself to everyone...irrespective of personality..
Why hasnt he done so the muslims there?
Or do u sincerely believe god has revealed himself to them?
Why would they all have this personal revelation and still be muslims?

You don't waste time telling Dangote that his riches may be fake.

if dangote claims only him can create money and his money is the only real money in the world...t has to be put to scrutiny..

The part you bolded in verse4 was not.

4 Yet their voice [in quiet evidence] has gone out
through all the earth,
Their words to the end of the world.
In them and in the heavens He has made a tent for
the sun,
the bolded is evidence that the sentence in which the bolded starts from(inside verse 4) is talking bout the sun sir..

And it mentioned a 800m race right, not a 50m or a 100m or a 5km? Let's suit you abi?

lol...even in simplified modern translations..it still talks about the movement of the sun..
AMP=Course
AMPC=course
NASB=course
NIV=course
NRSV=course
RSV=course
clearly it means the orbital movement of the sun

It gave no such DETAIL. It simply praised God for His works that show that He is great.

ye it was glorifying gods work in a descriptive manner..
So m still on track

Give me an example of something divinely inspired that makes you arrive at this ridiculous conclusion of proof?

i didnt make this claim..
according to god worshippers...their holy books are divinely inspired..

You're not making sense here. The Bible was written by men, not God. It was authored and inspired(God breathed) by God. God can inspire a song a person is singing for instance, or a rod like Moses'. That's kind of how inspiration works. God uses it, possesses it as it were. It is not a priority or headache or big deal to tell creatures the shape of the earth or the itinerary of the sun. It never helped anybody make it in life. Life is more serious than you seem to be taking it. You can be a Prof, you can be a President, you can be a world champion, you can marry, give birth, go to Heaven or hell without giving a care the size of the sun or it's location. Get serious.

are u somehow accepting that he lied?
Btw why would an all knowing god not know that the shape orbit etc of what he created will later matter to us?

YOU said "everybody does tho not to the extent u claim we do..bt they dont claim to get the idea or are directed by god or smtin likke dat....and they know how it truly works..."

bro..lemme get something straight...if u have the luxury..scroll up and confirm..u initially said everybody knows how the sun works..before i said that...

God MADE the lights on the fourth day, what was going on the previous days that make you sure they were literal 24hour days?

(1)evening and morning came Gen 1:3-5
(2)evening passed and morning came Gen 1:6-7
(3)blessed the seventh day
Gen 2:3
Then the oga
(4) In six days
Exodus 20:11

It is plain you are confused. Sorry about that.

am an agnostic so i cannot tell u what i dont know

A sinner is a sinner, they are both confused and going to the same place jare. You don't know like you said, and you are not listening to us that know.

you are not presenting logical stuffs
if u did of course i would be open to know.
Bt i can give u a lotta reasons against urs
..im not close minded on anything..


[/quote]
It did?[/quote]
homo neanderthals existed before us...u can check it up..i dont forge stuffs up

Show me where. Evidently, you are the one lying.

Gen 1and 2 states clearly that we were the only forms of man created by the christian god..
Bt scientific findings say otherwise...how am i lying?

raphieMontella:
1.Christians and muslims ...if creation had supposedly stopped since far back as 10000 years ago,why are stars like FU ORIONIS being birthed inside the last 100 years.? .

What do you mean? God made provision for procreation. Humans have not stopped giving birth. Animals have not stopped giving birth etc. so whats the noise for? One statement that God made after creation was- BE FRUITFUL AND MUTIPLY. God initiated procreation.

raphieMontella:
1.Christians and muslims
2..Christians if you were born in Afghanistan to muslim parents which God wud u have called the true God?
Muslims if you were born in the Vatican city(a country) or Greece to staunch christian parents which God wud u have called the true God?

.

Another noise making.
Everyday people are migrating from one belief to the other. We see muslims turning to embrace christianity and vice versa.. We see traditionalists, Hindus etc turning to Chriist. Even you that is an atheists were you born in an atheists family? But today you are an atheist so stop giving us that crap. Where you are born cannot tie you to a belief. You make your choice as you grow in knowledge.

raphieMontella:

[b]3...Christians do you believe Muhammed rode a flying horse and divided the moon into two?
..

Why should i doubt it when i was not there when it happened? Why should i doubt it when the scripture told me about the powers of darkness. What i will rather want to know is- by whose power did he do it? By God's power or by devil's power? The bible says- we are not ignorant of his devices.

raphieMontella:
1.Christians and muslims
Muslims do u believe yahweh made a donkey talk?

..

It is clearly stated in the scripture that God did it. I have no reason to doubt that the creator of all things cant do that. He was the one that created the donkey not to be able to talk and he has the power to make a donkey talk. What he did was to speak through a donkey. God owns everything and he has every right and power to use his creations as it pleases him.

raphieMontella:

[b]4..Christians and Muslims do u believe the sun orbits the earth as ur holybooks said it did or do u believe the earth orbits the sun?

..

Kindly show me where the scripture said this so that we look at it together.

raphieMontella:
1.Christians and muslims

7...Christians and Muslims ..why did ur holybooks make no mention of HOMO NEANDERTHALS? And how is it possible that the fossils of them are being found if the earth is jst 10000 years old?
.

Pls be informed that the bible does not contain a comprehensive information about all that happened from creation till now. It doesnt contain all the events going on in the world since Adam. No one book can contain that pls. Be wise. We are only given the fraction that we needed to know to establish our knowledge of God and our relationship with him. This simply means that God is more interested in our personal relationship with him than restricting our relationship with him to what is written only. If God wanted our relationship with him to be book based only, he would have made everything to be written and that will amount to thousands upon thousands of volumes of books detailing every event from creation till now.
HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

MrMontella:

lol bruh....is the earth circular?

You are kidding right? What has this got to do with anything? By now, you should at least have a guage or idea of the level of who you are discussing with to be throwing up rubbish. Did the Bible clearly refers to the earth shape as circular or not? Or you think we should rather discuss geography or sphericity?

MrMontella:

ts a simple statement sir..
since god(christian one) reveals himself to everyone...irrespective of personality..
Why hasnt he done so the muslims there?
Or do u sincerely believe god has revealed himself to them?
Why would they all have this personal revelation and still be muslims?

Because of freewill. BTW, God does not say/promise to personally reveal Himself to anybody, i wonder where you imagined that from. God has sent humans to preach the gospel and whosoever believeth will have life. If their forefathers had listened, they may have not been the way they are now. You who has heard it more than once, what have you done about it? Or why are they your concern, why do you specialise in weeping and gnashing of teeth above the bereaved?

if dangote claims only him can create money and his money is the only real money in the world...t has to be put to scrutiny..

You seem poor at picking analogies. i said "You don't waste time telling Dangote that his riches may be fake." In other words, i am so rich in God that it is a waste of time telling me that God may be fake. Your talks about someone else may be the real dude is dead on arrival. It is like.. never mind.

4 Yet their voice [in quiet evidence] has gone out
through all the earth,
Their words to the end of the world.
In them and in the heavens He has made a tent for the sun, the bolded is evidence that the sentence in which the bolded starts from(inside verse 4) is talking bout the sun sir..

No, obviously the word "Their" is plural, it is not referring to a singular sun. It is referring to all of creation.

lol...even in simplified modern translations..it still talks about the movement of the sun..
AMP=Course
AMPC=course
NASB=course
NIV=course
NRSV=course
RSV=course
clearly it means the orbital movement of the sun

And a course MUST be orbital?

ye it was glorifying gods work in a descriptive manner..
So m still on track

You detailed/specified it by saying what was NEVER said i.e that the sun made orbits around the earth.

i didnt make this claim..
according to god worshippers...their holy books are divinely inspired..

Give me an example of something divinely inspired. You have been claiming it is not divinely inspired, tell me why. Show me an example of something divinely inspired. At least to shout that something is counterfeit, you should know the real na.

are u somehow accepting that he lied?
Btw why would an all knowing god not know that the shape orbit etc of what he created will later matter to us?

No, i clearly said how inspiration works. Inspiration is not necessarily dictation. The knowledge of the shape of the earth is yet to significantly matter to up to 1% of all humanity. Can you drop this nonsense already?

bro..lemme get something straight...if u have the luxury..scroll up and confirm..u initially said everybody knows how the sun works..before i said that...

No, i said everybody uses the term SUNRISE and SUNSET until tomorrow, irrespective of their class or knowledge. It is not a biggie, it has nothing to do with geographical facts, and i think i mentioned something about heart break or loving with all your heart. In the physical and biological sense, the heart is simply pumping blood, not breaking. Nobody is having headaches or thinking about omniscience when idioms are used.

(1)evening and morning came Gen 1:3-5
(2)evening passed and morning came Gen 1:6-7
(3)blessed the seventh day
Gen 2:3
Then the oga
(4) In six days
Exodus 20:11

Still does not certify that they MUST be literal 24hr days. Jesus Himself referred to His whole time on earth as a day. He said He must work while it is day, He was not talking about the physical literal 24hours, it was a period. The day of the Lord, the day of judgement are not a period of literal exact 24hours. These are also biblical expressions. Since the light that was to regulate time wasn't even MADE till the fourth day, you should be careful to assert that the days MUST be literal 24hour days.

am an agnostic so i cannot tell u what i dont know


you are not presenting logical stuffs
if u did of course i would be open to know.
Bt i can give u a lotta reasons against urs
..im not close minded on anything..

You've not presented much logic either. Most of what you have presented have being based on blind faith and probability/suppositions. It is close-minded to limit oneself to listening to only logic. Not every reality is logic, some things transcend logic, like peace, joy, love and faith. Not everything is mathematical or scientific in life.

homo neanderthals existed before us...u can check it up..i dont forge stuffs up

Gen 1and 2 states clearly that we were the only forms of man created by the christian god..
Bt scientific findings say otherwise...how am i lying?

i have not argued otherwise regarding neanderthals, we have both agreed that they are different from homo sapiens remember. i said you should "Show me where. Evidently, you are the one lying." Because YOU said that creation accounts say we are the only and first type of humans to. That is a lie, the Bible does not say that we are the only and first creatures on earth. Again, i will have to ask you, are homo sapiens the same as neanderthals?

Image123:


You are kidding right? What has this got to do with anything? By now, you should at least have a guage or idea of the level of who you are discussing with to be throwing up rubbish. Did the Bible clearly refers to the earth shape as circular or not? Or you think we should rather discuss geography or sphericity?

yes it did..just once...and like i asked is the earth circular?
Isaiah knew of spherical shapes...he wrote about a ball...
So?
The book was even written in a time when popular belief that the earth is either a plane or a disk..
So its clear to see that it was just a wild guess..
Err'1 can infer that it was his own belief..probably gotten from looking at the moon and sun and they both appear circular..

Image123:


Because of freewill. BTW, God does not say/promise to personally reveal Himself to anybody,

thats what u wanted to present..when u said i asked about being in a 100% islamic country...

i wonder where you imagined that from. God has sent humans to preach the gospel and whosoever believeth will have life.

not everyone has heard..like i said what happens to those with no access?

If their forefathers had listened, they may have not been the way they are now.

forefathers?
Oh..so they are going to suffer in an eternal hell for the sins of their fore fathers?

You who has heard it more than once, what have you done about it?

lol me?
Forget about me..i dont do fables..

Or why are they your concern, why do you specialise in weeping and gnashing of teeth above the bereaved?

they are my concern because i am a humanist..and im concerned about others..or is it bad?

You seem poor at picking analogies.

skipped tho

i said "You don't waste time telling Dangote that his riches may be fake." In other words, i am so rich in God that it is a waste of time telling me that God may be fake. Your talks about someone else may be the real dude is dead on arrival. It is like.. never mind.

oh...u are rich in your own version of god...
Why do u then feel the other versions are poor in their own god versions?
The same way it feels dead on arrival to u...extrapolate it to others..
So like i said..
Its personal conviction #from all gathered from you

No, obviously the word "Their" is plural, it is not referring to a singular sun. It is referring to all of creation.

baba..calm down..the beginning of verse 4 concludes verse 3..''their''
was talking about the stars..check verse 3..
So talks about the sun starts from after that fullstop.

And a course MUST be orbital?

yes..if the the course it follows was detailed as an orbital one..
And that was what was given..

You detailed/specified it by saying what was NEVER said i.e that the sun made orbits around the earth.

what does circuit now mean?
Baba wants to deny the plain truth..

Give me an example of something divinely inspired. You have been claiming it is not divinely inspired, tell me why. Show me an example of something divinely inspired. At least to shout that something is counterfeit, you should know the real na.

by divinely inspired i meant of a creator..
In a mobile phones' manual given by the creator of the phone..
The on button is said to be the on button..the usb port is said to be the usb port...
Thats divine inspiration(creator/manufacturer/maker inspired)

No, i clearly said how inspiration works. Inspiration is not necessarily dictation. The knowledge of the shape of the earth is yet to significantly matter to up to 1% of all humanity. Can you drop this nonsense already?

oh alright..am correct tho..
M nt the liar here..didnt write any part of the bible

No, i said everybody uses the term SUNRISE and SUNSET until tomorrow, irrespective of their class or knowledge. It is not a biggie, it has nothing to do with geographical facts, and i think i mentioned something about heart break or loving with all your heart. In the physical and biological sense, the heart is simply pumping blood, not breaking. Nobody is having headaches or thinking about omniscience when idioms are used.

depends...

Still does not certify that they MUST be literal 24hr days. Jesus Himself referred to His whole time on earth as a day. He said He must work while it is day, He was not talking about the physical literal 24hours, it was a period. The day of the Lord, the day of judgement are not a period of literal exact 24hours. These are also biblical expressions. Since the light that was to regulate time wasn't even MADE till the fourth day, you should be careful to assert that the days MUST be literal 24hour days.

bruh even the hebrew word depicts a day..
i am only saying the truth..
Okk...What does a seventh day have to do with six days if its not a week?
And then sets(bless) that seventh day as a worship day?/giving it as a pattern for man to follow?
Bruh?
Exo 20:8-11 details the relation between the six days of creation and the seventh day of rest as a week..

If u can believe 'days' may not be literal days..then how do u expect me to believe jesus rose from the dead in 3 days?

You've not presented much logic either. Most of what you have presented have being based on blind faith and probability/suppositions. It is close-minded to limit oneself to listening to only logic. Not every reality is logic, some things transcend logic, like peace, joy, love and faith. Not everything is mathematical or scientific in life.

hey! i did not tell you god exists..you guys did..
I base on reason and open mindedness

i have not argued otherwise regarding neanderthals, we have both agreed that they are different from homo sapiens remember. i said you should "Show me where. Evidently, you are the one lying." Because YOU said that creation accounts say we are the only and first type of humans to. That is a lie, the Bible does not say that we are the only and first creatures on earth. Again, i will have to ask you, are homo sapiens the same as neanderthals?

the creation account clearly states that no being was on this earth before god created it..
Light-firmament-dry land-plants-sun and co-animals-man.
Okkay..
Why would god then say let us make man ? If they had been other men?
Or neanderthals are not ''human''?

MrMontella:

yes it did..just once...and like i asked is the earth circular?
Isaiah knew of spherical shapes...he wrote about a ball...
So?
The book was even written in a time when popular belief that the earth is either a plane or a disk..
So its clear to see that it was just a wild guess..
Err'1 can infer that it was his own belief..probably gotten from looking at the moon and sun and they both appear circular..

Okay, according to you, when the Bible is apparently right, it is guesswork, and when it is apparently wrong it is God's work. If we are going to have a profitable discussion, you need to know what you really want. If you want to KNOW, fine, we are on course. If your aim is to show that the Bible is wrong, sorry wrong number.
The only difference between a sphere and a cirle is the dimensions, the are both ROUND. Talking 2-D, 3-D, 4-D is technical stuff. Isaiah CLEARLY stated the roundness of the earth. Another place talks of its "compass", which is also originally rendered circle.

Image123:


Okay, according to you, when the Bible is apparently right, it is guesswork, and when it is apparently wrong it is God's work. If we are going to have a profitable discussion, you need to know what you really want. If you want to KNOW, fine, we are on course. If your aim is to show that the Bible is wrong, sorry wrong number.
The only difference between a sphere and a cirle is the dimensions, the are both ROUND. Talking 2-D, 3-D, 4-D is technical stuff. Isaiah CLEARLY stated the roundness of the earth. Another place talks of its "compass", which is also originally rendered circle.

like i said..isaiah knew of words for spherical objects like ball or oval like egg etc...
He talked about ball in isaiah 22:18...so i can confidently say he viewed the earth as a circle...which is still flat..
We are just exchanging ideas...bt i do not believe in ur god at all...bt if u have indisputable proof...you can bring it...
Ive studied the bible...it is both good and bad...
The bible is proof that morality evolves...
The bible(new testament) is a good guide..and i would recommend it to anybody..
I dont believe in jesus bt like his philosophy..

MrMontella:

thats what u wanted to present..when u said i asked about being in a 100% islamic country...

not everyone has heard..like i said what happens to those with no access?
forefathers?
Oh..so they are going to suffer in an eternal hell for the sins of their fore fathers
lol me?
Forget about me..i dont do fables..

they are my concern because i am a humanist..and im concerned about others..or is it bad?

That was not what i wanted to present, don't jump ahead of yourself. You said that God reveals himself to everyone. Stop making crass statements without backup. i already told you what happens to those who do not hear, the same thing that happens to those who sincerely do not see or hear an approaching train. Nobody is going to suffer 'eternally' for another person's sins. All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Unfortunately, the actions of others affect others. The actions of your forefathers are probably affecting you too today. If only they had gone with the slaves, who knows, you might have been a Brazilian today. Also if you continue in carelessness, your children will also be affected. That is how the world works, get used to it. If we are to forget about you, then we should forget about others too. Stop being what they call a busybody in other men's matters.

skipped tho

oh...u are rich in your own version of god...
Why do u then feel the other versions are poor in their own god versions?
The same way it feels dead on arrival to u...extrapolate it to others..
So like i said..
Its personal conviction #from all gathered from you

Of course, faith is PERSONAL. Glory be to God, you seem to be taking in something at last. Each individual is expected to have a personal relationship with God, not just follow the multitude or the trend. You've been busy telling me that people are christians because others are christians, and that they lack personal conviction or understanding of what they are doing. No, my foundations are personal, grounded and unshakable in God. Don't come wasting my time with what ifs God is not real, or what if ABC is the real. I know whom i have believed. Period.

baba..calm down..the beginning of verse 4 concludes verse 3..''their''
was talking about the stars..check verse 3..
So talks about the sun starts from after that fullstop.
yes..if the the course it follows was detailed as an orbital one..
And that was what was given..

Actually, you are the one who needs to calm down and listen. Over here, you said that the bolded words give description of an orbital movement of the sun. You bolded line, all the earth, and end of the world in verse 4. And i said that Psalm 19v4 for instance is not even referring directly to the sun and yet you bold it as describing Orbital movement. It is referring to God's works, creation, the heavens showing and declaring the glory of God, it was not referring to orbital movements.

what does circuit now mean?
Baba wants to deny the plain truth..

There is no denial there, it is simply your closemindedness at work. i have already explained the apparent/APPARENT movement of the sun that EVERYBODY agrees to in the basic SUNRISE and SUNSET. Till tomorrow, the sun is said to RISE in the East and SET in the West. That is apparent movement, not geography syllabus. Everybody uses it till tomorrow, but you think it is sacrilege for the Bible writers to do so. That is weird. Even in science, physics and astonomy to be precise, there is what is called Sun Path and Diurnal motion. These two take for granted the apparent movement of the sun. Nonetheless, geographically or positionally, it is actually earth that is moving. See, find something better to discuss or ask. This is Religion section. If i had the interest in tutoring people in earth rotation and revolution of planetary bodies, i would go to the section. i have no such interest. Don't bother me with insignificant rubbish.

by divinely inspired i meant of a creator..
In a mobile phones' manual given by the creator of the phone..
The on button is said to be the on button..the usb port is said to be the usb port...
Thats divine inspiration(creator/manufacturer/maker inspired)
oh alright..am correct tho..
M nt the liar here..didnt write any part of the bible

That's divinity? Lol. So divinity is for a manufacturer to give a phone manual and the phone manual is correct. Pretty much everybody does that i think. The Word of God still qualifies this your funny criteria/definition though.

depends...



bruh even the hebrew word depicts a day..
i am only saying the truth..
Okk...What does a seventh day have to do with six days if its not a week?
And then sets(bless) that seventh day as a worship day?/giving it as a pattern for man to follow?
Bruh?
Exo 20:8-11 details the relation between the six days of creation and the seventh day of rest as a week..

If u can believe 'days' may not be literal days..then how do u expect me to believe jesus rose from the dead in 3 days?

You don't believe maynots. i said it may not be, that i would not be quick to call them literal. The Bible does not say they are literal, and it shows instances where time is not literal whether day or hour or even week. It is not a major subject of discussion though, you are free to believe it is literal, nothing lost or gained either way. Do you believe Jesus rose from the dead?

hey! i did not tell you god exists..you guys did..
I base on reason and open mindedness

Doubt is not a positive open, neither is unfounded assertion reasonable.

the creation account clearly states that no being was on this earth before god created it..
Light-firmament-dry land-plants-sun and co-animals-man.
Okkay..
Why would god then say let us make man ? If they had been other men?
Or neanderthals are not ''human''?

Show me where the Genesis account clearly states that no being was on this earth. i thought you agreed earlier that neanderthals are not homo sapiens?

MrMontella:

like i said..isaiah knew of words for spherical objects like ball or oval like egg etc...
He talked about ball in isaiah 22:18...so i can confidently say he viewed the earth as a circle...which is still flat..
We are just exchanging ideas...bt i do not believe in ur god at all...bt if u have indisputable proof...you can bring it...
Ive studied the bible...it is both good and bad...
The bible is proof that morality evolves...
The bible(new testament) is a good guide..and i would recommend it to anybody..
I dont believe in jesus bt like his philosophy..

Or maybe he did not pay attention in geometry class to classify shapes and figures in an agreed taxonomy. Indisputable proof that what? Is that a new question? When are you going to give us indisputable proofs too? Evidently you studied the Bible like one of my cousins that studied Mathematics and failed. She did study though, and was sincere too. Morality of course should be in God, not on individual whims and caprices.

Image123:


Or maybe he did not pay attention in geometry class to classify shapes and figures in an agreed taxonomy.

he had no idea the earth was ball-like

Indisputable proof that what? Is that a new question? When are you going to give us indisputable proofs too?

on what i know or what i dont know?

Evidently you studied the Bible like one of my cousins that studied Mathematics and failed. She did study though, and was sincere too.

if maths told her 1 1=2 and she wrote 1 1=2..she would nt have failed...
The bible said killing is bad...
God is all powerful and kills all kids in the world by a flood...
I repeat what the bible said..and said god killed kids..
U say i failed...smh

Morality of course should be in God, not on individual whims and caprices.

lol...do u agree to killing of disobedient children?

Image123:


That was not what i wanted to present, don't jump ahead of yourself. You said that God reveals himself to everyone. Stop making crass statements without backup.

no u said..if u were in a 100 percent islamic country god will still reveal himself to u..
So i agreed that he will reveal himself to others...because he is not partial...or is he?
Ure missing the idea...

i already told you what happens to those who do not hear, the same thing that happens to those who sincerely do not see or hear an approaching train. Nobody is going to suffer 'eternally' for another person's sins. All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Unfortunately, the actions of others affect others. The actions of your forefathers are probably affecting you too today. If only they had gone with the slaves, who knows, you might have been a Brazilian today. Also if you continue in carelessness, your children will also be affected. That is how the world works, get used to it. If we are to forget about you, then we should forget about others too. Stop being what they call a busybody in other men's matters.

lol to talk about others is now busybodying?
But preaching to others is not?
..
U do not like to give straight answers..
will people who have not heard go to an eternal hell?
If yes..they are suffering for the sins of the forefathers...
So whats ur answer?
(if their fore fathers did not sin#accept wrong religion..they wouldnt be in the mess)
its as simple as abc...

Of course, faith is PERSONAL. Glory be to God, you seem to be taking in something at last. Each individual is expected to have a personal relationship with God, not just follow the multitude or the trend. You've been busy telling me that people are christians because others are christians, and that they lack personal conviction or understanding of what they are doing.

na..dnt misquote me..ive been always saying one thing...
Adherence to a christianity is personal..likewise other religions
not that they reject proof of your god..

No, my foundations are personal, grounded and unshakable in God. Don't come wasting my time with what ifs God is not real, or what if ABC is the real. I know whom i have believed. Period.

thank you..likewise other religions..
Ure beginning to see...
They are unshakable in their various gods.. And he is the real for them..

Actually, you are the one who needs to calm down and listen. Over here, you said that the bolded words give description of an orbital movement of the sun. You bolded line, all the earth, and end of the world in verse 4. And i said that Psalm 19v4 for instance is not even referring directly to the sun and yet you bold it as describing Orbital movement. It is referring to God's works, creation, the heavens showing and declaring the glory of God, it was not referring to orbital movements.

i have corrected myself...
But the sun was talked about in the second sentence of verse 4..and was continued onto verse 6...which still talked about an orbital movement of the sun..
So?

There is no denial there, it is simply your closemindedness at work.


That's divinity? Lol. So divinity is for a manufacturer to give a phone manual and the phone manual is correct. Pretty much everybody does that i think. The Word of God still qualifies this your funny criteria/definition though.

it does not in this aspect..

You don't believe maynots. i said it may not be, that i would not be quick to call them literal. The Bible does not say they are literal, and it shows instances where time is not literal whether day or hour or even week. It is not a major subject of discussion though, you are free to believe it is literal, nothing lost or gained either way.

my research confirms it is literal..
The hebrew word is 'yom'
when ever 'yom' is used with a numeral it is always a 24 hour day..
No exceptions...
U can check it...so it is literal..

Do you believe Jesus rose from the dead?

hell no!

Doubt is not a positive open, neither is unfounded assertion reasonable.

Do you doubt the sun is the source of light u see in day time?
Are u open minded on it being from a space ship?

Show me where the Genesis account clearly states that no being was on this earth.

gen 1:2 earth wasnt existing...ur big guy created land on day 3..
So frm there plants animals man..
From where did neanderthals now come if the earth wasnt existing till he created it?

i thought you agreed earlier that neanderthals are not homo sapiens?

they are still under 'human'..
German shepherd dogs and dalmatians do not look alike..but they are still dogs...

MrMontella:

like i said..isaiah knew of words for spherical objects like ball or oval like egg etc...
He talked about ball in isaiah 22:18...so i can confidently say he viewed the earth as a circle...which is still flat..
We are just exchanging ideas...bt i do not believe in ur god at all...bt if u have indisputable proof...you can bring it...
Ive studied the bible...it is both good and bad...
The bible is proof that morality evolves...
The bible(new testament) is a good guide..and i would recommend it to anybody..
I dont believe in jesus bt like his philosophy..

You are talking algebra, WITH RESPECT TO Geometry. Isaiah was not. Simple. If you don't get that, no problem. As usual, it takes nothing away. If that is where you hang your eternity or belief/disbelief of God, it is your choice not mine. The words the Bible used in describing the shape of the earth are equally translated as round or circle. The ball can also be translated CIRCLE. Is a ball a circle in geometry? i do not have a responsibility or debt to prove God to you or anybody. My responsibility is to be His witness. If one rejects Him, many others accept Him. Heaven is not by force apparently. i need no other argument or plea. It is enough for me that Jesus died, and that He died for me. He has proven Himself in me and changed my life. If He does not change yours, He will change others.