malvisguy212:
Alright. No need to correct you, any christian read this thread will understand how confuse you are, Are you sure you are a christian before you became an atheist ? Or you never went to sunday school class ? Do you know why I like thread like this ? It make the christians understand that atheists misunderstood God plan of salvation. I mean what you wrote up there EXPOSE the ignorance of atheists. You interpret matthew 27:46 by saying jesus cried to himself " myself myself ?" Lolll. Alright.

malvisguy212:
Who incarnate in jesus the man ? When jesus walk with His disciples on Earth, who was in heaven ? This topic is way bigger than your imagination, your knowledge cannot comprehend it. It is better you stick with the issue, if God exist or not.

raphieMontella:

are you saying heaven was empty when he was on earth?
Or wah?
My knowledge cant comprehend it..but yours can??..how sad...
Why dont u show us all your top status intellect?

raphieMontella:

jesus clearly said he was god..
So in essence...u mean judas and pharaoh are in heaven? Or wah?

hopefulLandlord:
Jesus was a jewish carpenter who was the deluded bastard son of an acclaimed virgin who was lied to by his mother that God impregnated her and who ended up believing it and allowing himself to be crucified only to realize his folly on the cross then crying out to his imaginary father in heaven asking why he has forsaken him.

malvisguy212:
when jesus teach his disciples how to pray, how did He begin ? Our Father IN HEAVEN. Is heaven empty ? Jesus promise to send the comforter (Holy spirit) to us. Is the comforter in earth or heaven ?

JMAN05:


The word god is titular. Some that do not deserve worship are referred to as gods. Jesus can be called a god. That word means 'might one'. However, Jesus is not the Almighty God. We only have one God, the Father. 1cor. 8:6. Now Jesus is not the Father mentioned there.

How did I imply that Judas and Pharoah went to heaven?

malvisguy212:
It make the christians understand that atheists misunderstood God plan of salvation.

honourhim:


Young man you are just trying to play with the word- freewill. You mean God created them with freewill to choose from nothing or what? If i created you with freewill to choose between evil and good, i dont need a soothsayer to tell me that there is the possibility of you choosing evil. If you say God didnt see any possibility of man doing evil then it means there is no freewill. How free is the so called freewill? There is no absolute freedom anywhere.

The bible records that God said- Jacob have i loved and Esau have i hated. This happened when they were not yet born and have not started making use of your so called freewill, God declared his hatred for Esau yet you want to paint a picture for me that God has no power to look into someone's future to know what he will choose.

Its also written in the bible that God hardened the heart of Pharoah. Does this support your freewill message?

Jesus was referred in the bible as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. Which means the redemption plan for man was put into place when God was forming the world. Forget that your freewill stuff bro. You dont need to defend your church teaching here. By the way the condition given to man in the bible does not depict absolute freedom and does not qualify to be called freewill. If there was absolute freedom, the choice would have been beyond two( the narrow way and the broad way). I know you are trying hard to defend your church teaching but it doesnt work here.

EyeHateGod:

Are there Diff level Of God? Or are U admiting that xtian worship 2 God?

JMAN05:


The above comment of mine answered ur question. The word 'god' is a title. When the word is applied to a faithful human or angel, the word is not referring to one deserving worship. Why? Luke 4:8 says worship belongs only to Jehovah, the God of both Jesus and us.

As for the word "god" many bear it, even humans, but we have one worshipful God. 1cor 8:5,6.

hopefulLandlord:
Jesus was a jewish carpenter who was the deluded bastard son of an acclaimed virgin who was lied to by his mother that God impregnated her and who ended up believing it and allowing himself to be crucified only to realize his folly on the cross then crying out to his imaginary father in heaven asking why he has forsaken him.
This same man is called the lion of the tribe of judah while he was even weaker than a sheep, he goes around making statement like he is the king of the jews and even telling the priests that he will pull down their temples and rebuild it in 3 days and when asked to do that claimed that he isnt talking about the temple but his body.

But romans no de carry last them beat nonsense commot for him body and his apostle stole his body and claimed he rose up on the 3rd day and went to heaven and na only the see am, even the mother did not see him self

honourhim:


Making mockery of what you dont understand translates to making a mockery of yourself.

CAPSLOCKED:




YEAH, RIGHT.. NO SINGLE CHRISTIAN UNDERSTANDS THE BIBLE FULLY. THEY'LL CLAIM THEY DON'T NEED TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING BECAUSE GOD'S WAYS ARE NOT MAN'S... AND HE CAN'T BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD... SO ALL THEY GOT TO DO IS BELIEVE BLINDLY AND NOT ASK QUESTIONS.

SO MR, BELIEVING AND WORSHIPPING SOMETHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND TRANSLATES TO BELIEVING AND WORSHIPPING YOURSELF??

honourhim:


Ordinary course that you studied in the university(if at all you did) do you understand everything about it? Then its God that you will understand everything about him. Even scientist hasnt unraveled everything about science, then it is God who created all things that you will understand everything about him. See how you reason?

honourhim:


Ordinary course that you studied in the university(if at all you did)do you understand everything about it? Then its God that you will understand everything about him. Even scientist hasnt unraveled everything about science, then it is God who created all things that you will understand everything about him. See how you reason?

felixomor:

Thank u for exposing the holes in his brain.

CAPSLOCKED:




HOLES IN MY BRAIN?

ACCURATE!

JMAN05:


So is there a possibility for me to choose good. It is just a possibility, not a certainty. Meanwhile, their had been others in heaven who were created with such freewill but who had remained faithful for long.


.

JMAN05:



Of course, God knows that there is a possibility that they would choose evil, but He also knows that there is a greater possibility that they will chose good. We are saying the same thing. What am only adding is that God evidently didn't peer into their future to know which choice will end up making. That would not be important since in fact He made them with a choice.



I did not say that God does not have the ability to foreknow, am only saying that He does not use this ability ALWAYS. This is total omniscience, which states that God by default knows all in eternity past and future and even present.

Just like in the case of Jeremiah whom God told that he knew what he would become even from the womb. Yes, God can use his ability of foreknowledge when He CHOSES, not ALWAYS. .

JMAN05:



I never knew that the expression "I love Jacob, Esau I hated" was made before Esau's birth. Can u help me with a reference?



Pls reference to the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. After then, I will reply.

JMAN05:




Pls reference to the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. After then, I will reply.

CAPSLOCKED:




FIRST OF ALL I'M SORRY FOR THIS LITTLE ENGAGEMENT WE HAVE, I APOLOGIZE, I SHOULDN'T HAVE ENGAGED YOU.

I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY THE COURSE I STUDIED IN SCHOOL, BUT I WASN'T BARRED FROM ASKING QUESTIONS, OR ARGUING WITH MY LECTURERS ON THE THINGS THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE.
YOU DON'T ARGUE WITH YOUR PREACHERS AND YOU'RE COMPLETELY NOT QUALIFIED TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING YOUR DOCTRINES..

AND HERE YOU GO COMPARING YOUR RELIGION AND MY SCHOOLING... WHERE'S YOUR SANITY?

raphieMontella:

so he just came to deceive humans and blame humans,,and condemn his predestined killers to hell although this had already planned out before creating earth

raphieMontella:


so if all is god's plan...then freewill is killed...
It also means everything,,including man made disasters etc...also it means he predestined all...
Whats also the essence of prayer??

raphieMontella:



john 10:30
..two humans make up parents..
One alone can still be called a parent right?
So jesus was still god..or
when he was earth he was not god?

honourhim:


I'm sorry you are a fool to make such generalization. In the church i worship you question everything. Some other churches do that too. I question everything. The ones we cant arrive at the answer in the immediate we keep digging deep. We never stop digging the word of God and meditating over it. Stop fooling yourself. IF we knew all about the bible then there wouldnt be need for us to be attending bible study from year to year, sunday school lessons every sunday, reading christian literatures to understand various perspectives and trying to see how it relates to realities of life.

honourhim:

It is you and some christians that invented freewill. There is no absolute freedom anywhere. Even in the bible we are not offered absolute freedom. The choice is restricted between good and evil, which is the narrow way and the broad way. There is the will of God and the will of man in our individual affairs. In some issues of life the will of God must prevail while in some issues, your will or the will of God prevails depending on the one you gave room for. This still confirms that there is no absolute freedom so dump the freewill thing abeg.
Again prayer is part of the means we pursue either the will of God or our own will. Remember at some point before the crucifixion of Jesus he prayed to his father and said- "if it were possible, let this cup pass over me". Then he followed it up with- "not my will but thine oh Lord". You can see that in this prayer, Jesus said what he wanted(his will) based on the agony he was passing through but quickly surrendered to God's will. Prayer has many needs. That you dont see the needs does not mean that others dont see it pls,

raphieMontella:

Jesus being God is ominipotent and ominiscient...

Well have you ever thought about how bizarre the crucifixion story is?
Imagine the all-powerful, all- knowing creator of the universe sitting on his magnificent throne in heaven. He looks down onto earth and says to himself: Those evil humans down on earth. I hate what they are doing. All this sin... Since I am all-knowing I know exactly what the humans are doing and I understand exactly why they commit each sin. Since I created the humans in my own image and personally programmed human nature into their brains, I am the direct author of all of this sin. The instant I created them I knew exactly what would happen with every single human being right down to the nanosecond level for all eternity. If I didn't like how it was going to turn out, I could have simply changed them when I created them. And since I am perfect, I know exactly what I am doing. But ignore all that. I hate all these people doing exactly what I perfectly designed them to do and knew they would do from the moment I created them.
I HATE IT! I tried killing all the humans and animals once in the flood. That certainly did not fix the problem. So here's what I am going to do. I will artificially inseminate a virgin. She will give birth to an incarnated version of me. The humans will eventually crucify and kill the incarnated me. That, finally, will make me happy.
Yes, sending myself down and having the humans crucify me -- that will satisfy me. I feel much better now.
It makes no sense, does it? Why would an all- knowing being need to have humans kill himself (Jesus is God, after all) to make himself happy?
Especially since it is a perfect God who set the whole thing in motion exactly the way he wanted it?
The whole story of the crucifixion is absurd from top to bottom if you actually stop to think about it. Jesus clearly knew that he is God. In John 14:8.. Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father.
" So it makes you wonder about Jesus' famous lamenation in
Matthew 27:46: About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Since Jesus is God, what he really must have meant is: "Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?"
seriously does this make any sense?


Cc :4kings felixomor jman05 valentinemary
hopefullandlord sirwere ifenes realmindz johnydon22 cloudgoddess hahn oglalasioux

TheSixthSense:





We have freewill. We always have a choice. But it is never God's will for man to sin or do evil. Paul was free to walk away after the encounter, Mary was also free to reject being the mother of Jesus. Jonah ran away. You can hear God's voice and still do choose to disobey whatever you like. God never possesses anyone against their freewill unlike the demonic. He only fills his faithful with His Spirit so they can have more guidance in choosing to do what is pleasing to Him. That's why the bible emphasises on obedience and faith. Because we obey consciously. There are two kinds of will of God. You should see this article. http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/how-to-know-the-will-of-god. It makes it clearer. It is never the will of God for man to sin and do evil. God's sovereign will always comes to pass.

honourhim:



Nope. God is a creator who knew he was going to create an imperfect being who would be influenced by either good or bad based on their ability to make choices. He simply made provisions for restoration for when one does bad. All you need to do is make use of the lifeline he provided. He is the creator and has the right to create what he wants as he wants it. Were you expecting God to create us perfect beings? Yes. But he rather wanted to create imperfect beings who will work towards perfection through his grace and power.God created us to be beings who will grow, beings who will learn, beings who will discover things. Thats a concept and he has right to have a concept as a creator In line with his concept, our imperfect nature placed us in a position to learn, experience and understand God's mercy. his goodness, his love, his wrath, his wonders, his power to build and to destroy etc. You and i are created to learn and we will continue to learn either in a hard way or in a soft way till we die. God runs the universe and theres nothing you can do about it than to yell, wail, cry, abuse, mock to your detriment while the wise ones keep learning and being fulfilled and thankful to God for the opportunity given us to learn.

It is you and some christians that invented freewill. There is no absolute freedom anywhere. Even in the bible we are not offered absolute freedom. The choice is restricted between good and evil, which is the narrow way and the broad way. There is the will of God and the will of man in our individual affairs. In some issues of life the will of God must prevail while in some issues, your will or the will of God prevails depending on the one you gave room for. This still confirms that there is no absolute freedom so dump the freewill thing abeg.

Again prayer is part of the means we pursue either the will of God or our own will. Remember at some point before the crucifixion of Jesus he prayed to his father and said-"if it were possible, let this cup pass over me". Then he followed it up with- "not my will but thine oh Lord". You can see that in this prayer, Jesus said what he wanted(his will) based on the agony he was passing through but quickly surrendered to God's will. Prayer has many needs. That you dont see the needs does not mean that others dont see it pls,

Stop making unnecessary argument. See Matthew 16-

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

JMAN05:


The word god is titular. Some that do not deserve worship are referred to as gods. Jesus can be called a god. That word means 'might one'. However, Jesus is not the Almighty God. We only have one God, the Father. 1cor. 8:6. Now Jesus is not the Father mentioned there.

How did I imply that Judas and Pharoah went to heaven?

malvisguy212:
when jesus teach his disciples how to pray, how did He begin ? Our Father IN HEAVEN. Is heaven empty ? Jesus promise to send the comforter (Holy spirit) to us. Is the comforter in earth or heaven ?

raphieMontella:

he made a lifeline...and then made an eternal pit??
And yet presents himself as a perfect man??
If he created man imperfect...why then blame man??
Why is he lying?

raphieMontella:

okay...no freewill...
So its already mapped out since before creation..nd still condemns people to an eternal hell...

raphieMontella:



Ur statement begs this question...
If jesus was divine/God...he would know the dire importance of his crucifixion...why would he then make this callous statement?

raphieMontella:

simple question...was Jesus God or not?

raphieMontella:

wait..you do not believe in the trinity??

U implied Judas and Pharaoh went to heaven..when you said..god cant punish those he used to fulfil his will..

honourhim:

`
So how did satan choose evil in such a perfect place as heaven. Where did he see that evil to choose? In the case of Adam and Eve it was entirely different. They were tempted by some creature with something

How can you claim that the bolded is not true about God when isaiah 46 says this-

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Revelations 13;8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

honourhim:

`
So how did satan choose evil in such a perfect place as heaven. Where did he see that evil to choose? In the case of Adam and Eve it was entirely different. They were tempted by some creature with something




How can you claim that the bolded is not true about God when isaiah 46 says this-

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:






10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.







Revelations 13;8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.