[Quote]
A teenager was murdered by her father and two uncles because they believed her love would shame their family, a court was told yesterday.

Tulay Goren, 15, died because she planned to wed factory boss Haili Unal, a jury heard.

Both of their families came from the Kurdish area of Turkey and were Muslims.

But the Gorens followed the Alevi branch of the religion and Halil, then 30, was a Sunni.

Jonathan Laidlaw, QC, prosecuting, told the Old Bailey jury a relationship between them "would have been viewed as bringing dishonour to the family".

Tulay vanished in January 1999 and her body has never been found.

The court heard Tulay had fled her home and went to live with Halil. But she was persuaded to return and an attempt was made to lure her lover to the house, the court heard.

Mr Laidlaw said: "Tulay managed to warn him of the trap and his life was saved.

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"Tulay was never seen alive again. The prosecution's case is she was murdered at home that day. The body was hidden in the garden and removed a week or so later."

He added: "This is what has become known as an honour killing. There is nothing honourable about the murder of a young woman by members of her own family."

Tulay's dad Mehmet, 49, of Woodford Green, East London, his brother Cuma Goren, 42, of Walthamstow, East London, and elder brother Ali Goren, 55, also of Walthamstow and the head of the family, deny murdering Tulay and conspiring to murder Halil.

Mr Laidlaw told the jury: "Tulay pursued Halil. She clearly loved him. She spoke of being unhappy at home, of hating her family. Her father was outraged."

Tulay and Halil tried to wed in Hackney, East London, in December 1998 but she had lied to him about her age. They agreed to wait three months until she was 16.

The accused thought women's marriages should be arranged by their families and for money, said Mr Laidlaw. He went on: "Of principal concern to men who follow the honour code would be the girl's virginity."

Police who returned to the case 10 years after Tulay's disappearance, he said, "possessed of a better understanding of honour-based violence".

The trial continues.[/quote]

from http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/10/09/murdered-by-her-dad-for-loving-the-wrong-man-115875-21733749/

You "moderate muslims" claim terrorism is primarily political, is honour killing also political?

You want abuzola to go around explaining why apostacy or honor killing is wrong? . . . .You think allah cares about the girls death at all. . . .this allah Idol of the deserts is a culprit in child molestation because he did nothing when his beloved prophet married a 9 year old child. . . ,  But ITS followers praise IT every day calling IT great! Great in promoting child abuse, killing of the infidels and apostates. . .what a god. . . .

@dudu, what they did has nothing to do with islam, they acted upon their motives, see what God says about such

'indeed, lost are they who have killed their children foolishly without knowledge and have forbidden that which God has provided for them, inventing a lie against God. They have indeed gone astray and were not guided' Quran 6:140

@Abuzola

Are you saying that entire nations such as Iran, Afghanistan and Turkey where such acts are rampant aren't practicing islam? where then did they get their injunctions from? Do you realize that this came to light only becos these people were resident in the UK? what of the untold stories of thousands who might have been killed in such cases back in their countries?

What about these injunctions from your various holy/unholy books?


Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”


Hadiths:

Sahi Muslim No. 4206:
“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her.”

Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.
(See also Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195.)

@dudu, you are mixing things up, Adultery is different from honour killing, the Quranic verse and hadith you quoted is all about adultery

@Abuzola, beautiful reponse

@duduspace, did u read your post at all? You should be ashamed of yourslf. Thanks for reminding the world how merciful our holy Prophet is.

Abuzola:

@dudu, what they did has nothing to do with islam, they acted upon their motives, see what God says about such

'indeed, lost are they who have killed their children foolishly without knowledge and have forbidden that which God has provided for them, inventing a lie against God. They have indeed gone astray and were not guided' Quran 6:140

This is a good response from Abuzola. The very first time i would see a good response from him.

Nevertheless, one cannot but compare these to the reaction of Jesus to Adultery:

"Let him who has no sin cast the first stone."

Wow. Worlds apart.

so why didnt Jesus throw the first stone, if he did not sin?

if he was showing his mercy, by helping the woman away from the sinners, he should have thrown the "proverbial gesture stone" if he was not a sinner!

now thats the truth. a really world apart.

Imagine ! Ten years in christian domitory i have never thought of it, thanks sir olabowale

the_seeker:

@duduspace, did u read your post at all? You should be ashamed of yourslf. Thanks for reminding the world how merciful our holy Prophet is.

Did you smoke anything? What mercy? where is the mercy in locking women up (I'm sure without food) until they die or burying them in the ground and then stoning them?

Or maybe a more important question is to ask what one must do worse than the 2 examples I've given above to be termed wicked?

Your prophet is wicked and you must be a very wicked person.

@Abuzola

This statement does not specifically mention adultery except yu want to start muddling up issues about the original language in which it was written like the christian zealots.

[Quote]
Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”[/quote]

And even if it did, is adultery enough reason to stone someone to death?

More importantly, yu miss the point. These are so called "Islamic" countries that supposedly operate Sharia law where these things are happening so what do yu have to say?

Funny ! So you consider lewdness as apostate. Lol you are funny. Check the meaning of lewdness and apostate and get back to me

Abuzola:

Funny ! So you consider lewdness as apostate. Lol you are funny. Check the meaning of lewdness and apostate and get back to me

I'm not considering anything as something else I'm only telling you what your supposedly holy book says.

Even if I choose to play your game, can you tell me what the punishment is under islamic law for:
1. lewdness
2. apostasy

is there any difference or do they carry the same sentence of death? is one halal and the haram? please also give examples from within the Koran and Hadith.

I have already done justice to ur question so why playing round the bush. I stated it clearly that killing children in the term of honour killing is unislamical. Period!

Abuzola:

I have already done justice to your question so [b]why playing round the bush. [/b]I stated it clearly that killing children in the term of honour killing is unislamical. Period!

I am doing no such things, look at the man in the mirror cos you're accusing me of your exact actions. You have not addressed the crux of the issue in anyway. You have only denied something that makes you look bad when the holy book you supposedly follow clearly encourages it.

*shakes head* may God open your eyes amin. If your information Honour killing is unlslamical,

Abuzola:

*shakes head* may God open your eyes amin. If your information Honour killing is unlslamical,

I never said it was islamical, but I see it predominantly in islamic countries and I see statements in your "Sacred book" which encourage it or at the least encourages acts similar to it so don't blame me if I blame it all on islam or can you give me an alternative idea or concept to blame it on?

Abuzola:

*shakes head* may God open your eyes amin. If your information Honour killing is unlslamical,

i appreciate your honesty. you are man enough to admit the barbaric aspects of your religion (child marriages, honor killings, delusion etc)

Islam does not support honour killing , you are too blind to realize that stoning of adulterer to death is different from honour killing. Oh yes ! Why didn't jesus stone the prostitute if he is not a sinner . Can you now realize that ur scripture support stoning of adulterer

To understand d concept of apostacy, u have to understand d complex relationship that exists btw religion and politics, thats when u will see y its not an issue anymore unlike the middle ages. Religion was also the political machinery of the state in the times when relogious authority was in control of the state. As such people were bound by religion as a unit as such renouncin ur religion was seen in the light of treason or defection from an army. This was how religion survived till today. And to be fair to Muslims, Christianity from inception has killed more people who either renounced thier faith or preached something contrary to the initial Roman catholic doctrine.
But now humanity lives by countries, which have constitutions which still has its own version of punishments for Enemies of the state. Like i said u have to think deeper to get it.

@yogi, very well said an articulated. U have summed it all up in this intelligent piece.
i guess we close this topic now

lest i forget, the adultry story is not in most ancient bible manuscripts like the codex sinaiticus (the oldest bible manuscript). This is just one of the many interpolations imposed on christendom by men playing fast and loose with the word of God

before any of the bible thumpers start screaming pls look up the BBC link below.
Irrefutable!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7651105.stm

@Yoji and the_seeker

Why must you always play the christian card? can't islam exist without reference to christianity? who has mentioned anything about christianity here? I have told you I have no time for the christian zealots who are not in any way better in their delusions of one unquestionable big for nothing man up there doing as he pleases, but with due credit to them there is nothing like honour killing in most christian dominated states. At present it is largely confined to islamic dominated states (who actually claim to operate under Sharia law) and you have not put forward any argument to refute that or even any credible explanation for why that seems to be the case.

@Yoji

Are you implying in any way that those countries such as Afghanistan and Turkey(which is seeking entry into the EU) which we generally know as bastions of sharia law and models of what a typical islamic society should be like are still living back in the middle ages?

@Abuzola
Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why Jesus didn't stone the adulteress might be due to him being a bit more refined than your bloodthirsty prophet

duduspace:


Are you implying in any way that those countries such as Afghanistan and Turkey(which is seeking entry into the EU) which we generally know as bastions of sharia law and models of what a typical islamic society should be like are still living back in the middle ages?

Turkey is a secular state

Honor Killing is not Islamic; we've just finished discussing the same topic on Islam for Muslims childboard. Will provide the link now, inshaAllah.

Deep Sight:

Turkey is a secular state

I am not disputing that fact, but isn't Nigeria a secular state in theory? has that prevented some sections of Nigeria from declaring a Sharia society? The fact remains that this occurs in predominantly islamic areas and the core reason for these people's actions is premised on their islamic faith and those verses quoted above are used as justification for their actions, do we then blame them or blame the faith that motivates their action?

Abuzola:

Islam does not support honour killing , you are too blind to realize that stoning of adulterer to death is different from honour killing. Oh yes ! Why didn't jesus stone the prostitute if he is not a sinner . Can you now realize that your scripture support stoning of adulterer

i'm not a christian though. Jesus had a message of peace and not confrontation or is it holy jihad.

This thread is about Honor Killing. Here is the full discussion on that:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-333205.0.html

Next case. . .pls.