nurey:


I know all this basics as I was a science student in school and I taught physics during my NYSC.

The question is if two cars A and B are going at same speed in motion (they are already in motion side by side not just starting from rest) will one pass the other if they are both at same speed.

In basic physics the answer is no but in advance physics the answer is yes, let me use a general rule in physics as example.

The gravitational speed is 9.8ms so if you throw two objects from the top of building, the gravitational pull will be 9.8ms so they are expected to reach the ground at same time but it's not always so as mass also plays a role in determining this so a feather and a brick thrown from same height will not reach the ground at same time because the wind will act on the feather giving it a zip zag pattern to reach the ground.

Same for two different cars traveling at same speed side by side, aerodynamics will determine, wind speed, tire size, gear ratio, road pattern etc

I will agree with eriko2k2 on this one. This is because all these forces which are against motion will only directly affect the propelling force (engine) but not directly speed.

The question does not take into account all forces for or against speed. The question assumes both cars can get to the same speed and maintain it despite all the forces against it.

I am concerned for the speed measuring instrument and the sources of errors in reporting speed of both cars.

erico2k2:

FAILED!
Chey una say una do physics

My brother don't blame ooo, I know it's called odometer or speed clock for a reason. So I believe that all things being equal 120 for instance should be the same for all vehicle.

adanny01:


I will agree with eriko2k2 on this one. This is because all these forces which are against motion will only directly affect the propelling force (engine) but not directly speed.

The question does not take into account all forces for or against speed. The question assumes both cars can get to the same speed and maintain it despite all the forces against it.

I am concerned for the speed measuring instrument and the sources of errors in reporting speed of both cars.

correct, that is why I gave a distance of a constant speed of 60km/h on my illustration ie B to C,

ableguy:


My brother don't blame ooo, I know it's called odometer or speed clock for a reason. So I believe that all things being equal 120 for instance should be the same for all vehicle.

Nothing spoil we all learn each day, Im sure there are Bunch of stuff you know that I dont know

erico2k2:

FAILED !
this is why you guys get it all wrong, how can the range get from A to B in 300 secs when it has the force to accelerate from 0 to 60km/hr in 5 secs?
and to the rest of us here we dey dodge this question abi? and you all claim you did physics dey broke big big oyibo
and to the gentleman saying speed gun, plz note a speed gone can only be used to measure one car speed at a time not two as it functions like a two way radio.

A to B is 60km even a bugatti cannot achieve doing 60km race track in 5secs from rest. Cause I don't understand what you mean by wrong in my answer. distance is different from acceleration. So because my car can accelerate from 0 to 60km/h I can finish a 60km race track in 5secs,you must be joking

erico2k2:

Nothing spoil we all learn each day, Im sure there are Bunch of stuff you know that I dont know

Exactly

nurey:


A to B is 60km even a bugatti cannot achieve doing 60km race track in 5secs from rest. Cause I don't understand what you mean by wrong in my answer. distance is different from acceleration. So because my car can accelerate from 0 to 60km/h I can finish a 60km race track in 5secs,you must be joking

ok I will assume you got confused, if you noticed I never gave distance btw A n B, rather distance i gave was from B to C
at point B both cars has attained 60km/hr.
The bottom line is this,A to B speed is different time is different distance is same but B to C, time is same, distance same speed is same all constant.

erico2k2:

ok I will assume you got confused, if you noticed I never gave distance btw A n B, rather distance i gave was from B to C
at point B both cars has attained 60km/hr.
The bottom line is this,A to B speed is different time is different distance is same but B to C, time is same, distance same speed is same all constant.

Reread my answer again and get back to me cause I gave the same answer as what you are saying up here

Also check your diagram again distance from A to B you gave is 60km while B to C is 120km

ableguy:


My brother don't blame ooo, I know it's called odometer or speed clock for a reason. So I believe that all things being equal 120 for instance should be the same for all vehicle.

This is where i dont agree.

Have you heard of instrument error or tolerance? One speedometer can be accurate to the nearest 0.1km/h but another may be accurate to 0.01km/h. This will create an error that one car will pass another.

100.1km/h is not the same as 100.001km/h. This is what instrument error can cause.

Secondly, speedometer reading errors. A car like 2006 Honda accord with digital speedometer will be far more accurate than a car with analog dail speedometer. Physics practical errors included parallax errors especially with reading dails. A digital speedometer eliminates parallax and other errors.

For example, when live scanning my car, the RPM on the dash remains very stable at 800rpm but in the live scan, it never stays at exactly 800rpm. It constantly changes between 798-802rpm.

This is also true for the speedometer, when i think am at exactly 100km/h, the live scan will be more precise showing me either more or less say 98km/h or 102km/h.

I have also used GPS speedometer. A GPS is more accurate when it connects to as many satelites as possible, the fewer the less accurate.

Hypothetically, 100km/h in car A is the same as 100km/h in car B assuming no errors. Ofcourse there are errors.

Everyone knows numbers are 1, 2, 3 ...... Like kids think, when they grow further they are thougt fractions 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 etc. So the fact that speed is speed is true but there are other things you need to take account when you go into testing for speed.

The highlight in the screen shot is the issue am talking about.

erico2k2:

This is getting quiet annoying seriously by saying you are getting FRUSTRATED, it is not by force or a MUST that you must post a RESPONSE, so why the frustration
Anyway I'm done with this

Were you deliberately just prolonging the debate? What you have mixed up is the most basic physics I can think of.

Bigger tyres turning at the same rpm as smaller tyres will cover more distance on ground. It's common sense even.

A speedometer, odometer, tachometer etc is a sensor that is only as good as its input.
These meters are connected to the transmission to get the final output RPM. This RPM is useless as a means of measuring speed in SI units unless it is converted by means of a standard length.

THIS LENGTH IS THE DIAMETER OF THE TYRE FROM FACTORY SPECS.
The sensor CANNOT tell when you change tyre sizes. It will continue to output your speed according to the pre calibrated tyre diameter in its memory from the factory.

If you can't understand this one, I don't think anyone else can help you.

adanny01:


This is where i dont agree.

Have you heard of instrument error or tolerance? One speedometer can be accurate to the nearest 0.1km/h but another may be accurate to 0.01km/h. This will create an error that one car will pass another.

100.1km/h is not the same as 100.001km/h. This is what instrument error can cause.

Secondly, speedometer reading errors. A car like 2006 Honda accord with digital speedometer will be far more accurate than a car with analog dail speedometer. Physics practical errors included parallax errors especially with reading dails. A digital speedometer eliminates parallax and other errors.

For example, when live scanning my car, the RPM on the dash remains very stable at 800rpm but in the live scan, it never stays at exactly 800rpm. It constantly changes between 798-802rpm.

This is also true for the speedometer, when i think am at exactly 100km/h, the live scan will be more precise showing me either more or less say 98km/h or 102km/h.

I have also used GPS speedometer. A GPS is more accurate when it connects to as many satelites as possible, the fewer the less accurate.

Hypothetically, 100km/h in car A is the same as 100km/h in car B assuming no errors. Ofcourse there are errors.

Everyone knows numbers are 1, 2, 3 ...... Like kids think, when they grow further they are thougt fractions 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 etc. So the fact that speed is speed is true but there are other things you need to take account when you go into testing for speed.

The highlight in the screen shot is the issue am talking about.

At a point I thought these guys were just trolling you.

You are a very patient person. A commendable trait.

onwards:


At a point I thought these guys were just trolling you.

You are a very patient person. A commendable trait.

Thanks.

I thought so too.

.

Dear Lord. I would have thought this argument would be a non starter, and I would certainly have been wrong. Two (or more) vehicles (or other bodies in motion), traveling at the same ACTUAL speed, would remain side by side, provided the ACTUAL speed remains constant. All this talk of tyres and all of that is just mucking up the issue. As long as the ACTUAL (the true speed measured independently of a vehicles speedometer and whatever modifications may alter it's accuracy) speed remains the same, neither would outpace the other.

Plasmbob1:
A car moving at 120km/h will not overtake any object also moving at 120km/h. Be it another car(weaker or stronger), a hawk or a stone.

In as much as they're moving at the same speed. They will continue to cover the same distance at the same time.

Horsepower only determines how fast it can reach the said speed, traction etc.

i appreciate your reasoning. you smart

lecturerdabo:
It is even possible for a car doing 100 to overtake you at ur 120 depending on

1. Engine size
2. Age
3. Rpmg(don't know if I got that right sha)
Etc


My belief tho!

naaa. imagine two objects projected by the same OBJECT under the same conditions. results would be the same. if 120km/h is maintained for 60 minutes the distance covered would be 120km. so no matter the cars features or specifications, vehicles running at the same speed would continue to cover the same distance at the same proportionate time. be it a tank and a lamborghini.

You guys too over sabi!... the question is can a car travelling at 120kph overtake another doing the same speed? 120 kph is 120 kph.... he never said what the speedometer is showing..... tyre size... or nothing like that.... those are irrelevant...120kph is 120 kph.
The answer is yes. Again...the question is not about if one can cover more distance than the other......the question is about overtaking.... overtaking is about getting ahead... getting infront. A practical example of this can be seen in motor racing... two cars travelling at the same speed... one bend before coming to the finish line.... doesn't the car on the inside of the bend finish first?...doesn't that car overtake the other on the bend? Why?... because it travels same speed but less distance to get to the finish line. Again... the question is about overtaking... again... the answer is yes.
On tyre/wheel size (circumference) affecting speed... yes it does. Let's reason.... if a Toyota Camry clocked 180 kph...pedal to the metal... top speed on standard rims and tyres..... do you really think it will clock the same if fitted with Keke size wheels?

Plasmbob1:
A car moving at 120km/h will not overtake any object also moving at 120km/h. Be it another car(weaker or stronger), a hawk or a stone.

In as much as they're moving at the same speed. They will continue to cover the same distance at the same time.

Horsepower only determines how fast it can reach the said speed, traction etc.

Is like you miss d read... Car speed depending on d Car engine

Ipfreely:
Dear Lord. I would have thought this argument would be a non starter, and I would certainly have been wrong. Two (or more) vehicles (or other bodies in motion), traveling at the same ACTUAL speed, would remain side by side, provided the ACTUAL speed remains constant. All this talk of tyres and all of that is just mucking up the issue. As long as the ACTUAL (the true speed measured independently of a vehicles speedometer and whatever modifications may alter it's accuracy) speed remains the same, neither would outpace the other.

Tell them ooo, they're just making the whole thing more confusing

ableguy:


Tell them ooo, they're just making the whole thing more confusing

Whats wrong in saying the answer is no but that no is dependent on conditions.

My car and your car travelling at 100km by reading at our speedmeters may or may not be same speed if errors are not eliminated.

It doesnt change the fact that the main answer is no.

If you are a science student you must have heard of real depth or apparent depth. Its like looking at the bottom of a swimming pool full of water. The bottom looks 1m (apparent) but the real depth is 2m. Same with measuring speed with speedometer.

All this talk talk i gave doesnt change my initial simple answer that its a no.

From the main question

Can a car going at the speed of for instance 120km/ph overtake another car doing the same speed? No I have argued about this on several occasions, because I believe the speed clock or odometer should be like a clock that's always accurate and no clock goes faster than others. wrong
I know car engine, horsepower and capabilities differ. But then I believe a car going at the same speed can't overtake the other. Theoretically true but practically complicated
If I am doing 120 km/hr for another car to overtake me it must be doing at least 125 or 130, car gurus in the house please help.

You see, the op asked several questions and cannot be answered with a simple yes or no.

adanny01:


Whats wrong in saying the answer is no but that no is dependent on conditions.

My car and your car travelling at 100km by reading at our speedmeters may or may not be same speed if errors are not eliminated.

It doesnt change the fact that the main answer is no.

If you are a science student you must have heard of real depth or apparent depth. Its like looking at the bottom of a swimming pool full of water. The bottom looks 1m (apparent) but the real depth is 2m. Same with measuring speed with speedometer.

All this talk talk i gave doesnt change my initial simple answer that its a no.

From the main question


You see, the op asked several questions and cannot be answered with a simple yes or no.

If we are going to conduct this experiment on two different cars on a race track wont we measure the speed at same time with one equipment?

erico2k2:

If we are going to conduct this experiment on two different cars on a race track wont we measure the speed at same time with one equipment?

Yes. One external device eg speed gun, GPS etc but not the speedometer. A speedometer mounted on cars have a low degree of accuracy.

Any device is as good as its level of accuracy. A ruler measures linear dimensions, likewise a venier caliper or a micrometer screw guage. They all have their level of accuracy for measuring the same thing.

A speedometer will be as bad as a ruler measuring inear distance of less than 1mm.

Example, measuring thickness of my phone with 3 of the mentioned devices will give results as such. Ruler 9mm, venier caliper 8.92mm, micrometer screw guage 8.9123. The difference between the 1st and last is 0.0877 which is significant.

In the same vein, a car speedometer is not as accurate as a radar or laser speed gun or the GPS speedometer. A car speedometer may say 100km/h but the radar or laser could be more precise say 98.35km/h. If you measure one car with its speedometer and the other from a speed gun. They may not be in the same speed and with time one car can overtake the other.

adanny01:


Yes. One external device eg speed gun, GPS etc but not the speedometer. A speedometer mounted on cars have a low degree of accuracy.

Any device is as good as its level of accuracy. A ruler measures linear dimensions, likewise a venier caliper or a micrometer screw guage. They all have their level of accuracy for measuring the same thing.

A speedometer will be as bad as a ruler measuring inear distance of less than 1mm.

Example, measuring thickness of my phone with 3 of the mentioned devices will give results as such. Ruler 9mm, venier caliper 8.92mm, micrometer screw guage 8.9123. The difference between the 1st and last is 0.0877 which is significant.

In the same vein, a car speedometer is not as accurate as a radar or laser speed gun or the GPS speedometer. A car speedometer may say 100km/h but the radar or laser could be more precise say 98.35km/h. If you measure one car with its speedometer and the other from a speed gun. They may not be in the same speed and with time one car can overtake the other.

when the OP said two cars automatically it should come to mind we need one device to measure both cars so the speedometer, car engine, Tyre and its size should not be a factor in the derivation of that narrative of speed in this context.
So in contrast if two car are traveling at same speed measured by a speed gun, one cannot overtake the other or get from A to B faster that the other.This is the simple fact we are trying to deduce.No need to derv into speedometer, for all we know the speedometer of one of the cars might very well not be working but thats not o ne of the determinant of the said experiment if it get conducted.

erico2k2:

when the OP said two cars automatically it should come to mind we need one device to measure both cars so the speedometer, car engine, Tyre and its size should not be a factor in the derivation of that narrative of speed in this context.
So in contrast if two car are traveling at same speed measured by a speed gun, one cannot overtake the other or get from A to B faster that the other.This is the simple fact we are trying to deduce.No need to derv into speedometer, for all we know the speedometer of one of the cars might very well not be working but thats not o ne of the determinant of the said experiment if it get conducted.

If you say automatically, that means an assumption. In science when you make an assumption you should state it.

When you and your friend compete with each other, which same device would you use to accurately compare your speed without introducing a 3rd external device. Why cant i tell you the complications.

Did the op delve into speedometer or not?

ableguy:
Can a car going at the speed of for instance 120km/ph overtake another car doing the same speed? I have argued about this on several occasions, because I believe the speed clock or odometer should be like a clock that's always accurate and no clock goes faster than others.
I know car engine, horsepower and capabilities differ. But then I believe a car going at the same speed can't overtake the other.
If I am doing 120 km/hr for another car to overtake me it must be doing at least 125 or 130, car gurus in the house please help.

I can count atleast 3 issues, why do you expect me to answer a single yes or no for all 3 issues.

If i say NO to the words in green, is it the same for the words in black or in red?

Is it every speedometer that is "always accurate"?

When you change tires, will your speedometer be "always accurate"?

This ops post didnt ask for a yes or no answer.

adanny01:


If you say automatically, that means an assumption. In science when you make an assumption you should state it.

When you and your friend compete with each other, which same device would you use to accurately compare your speed without introducing a 3rd external device. Why cant i tell you the complications.

Did the op delve into speedometer or not?



I can count atleast 3 issues, why do you expect me to answer a single yes or no for all 3 issues.

If i say NO to the words in green, is it the same for the words in black or in red?

Is it every speedometer that is "always accurate"?

When you change tires, will your speedometer be "always accurate"?

This ops post didnt ask for a yes or no answer.

In your own book, how would you go and carry out this experiment,Im talking from my level of understanding and education, so I will like to think once again we are on same level of reasoning however if I have to come back to remind you a third device to measure the speed of both moving cars at same time then I stop to think of the whole benefit of this conversation.

There is a simple and single answer to OPs question which is NO
REASONS
1 both cars have same speed as stated by op(speedometer Tyre or shape bears no significance here)
2 speed would be constant cos OP said same speed.
However if the question was if we change/modify a part of a car if speed will be same then answer might be NO

lecturerdabo:
It is even possible for a car doing 100 to overtake you at ur 120 depending on

1. Engine size
2. Age
3. Rpmg(don't know if I got that right sha)
Etc


My belief tho!

Wrong! Speed is constant irrespective of the age, size and rpm of the car. A car doing 100 cannot overtake a car doing 102 sef unless their both speed is not constant.

erico2k2:

In your own book, how would you go and carry out this experiment,Im talking from my level of understanding and education, so I will like to think once again we are on same level of reasoning however if I have to come back to remind you a third device to measure the speed of both moving cars at same time then I stop to think of the whole benefit of this conversation.

There is a simple and single answer to OPs question which is NO
REASONS
1 both cars have same speed as stated by op(speedometer Tyre or shape bears no significance here)
2 speed would be constant cos OP said same speed.
However if the question was if we change/modify a part of a car if speed will be same then answer might be NO

You mean to say questions. I found 3 questions and i have different answers to each of them.

If you mean to say your level of understanding limits your understanding points i rainsed, you should not critisize what you dont understand.

Did the op ask only 1 question? I really need this answer from you. You seem to only focus on the first sentence made by op and neglect the rest of his post. What is your answer to the others?

1 is a yes/no question
2 is a right/wrong question
3 is a yes/no question

Question 1 is the same as question 3 but the 1 is NO and 3 is YES. The difference is in the sentence construction of the op. So you cant answer the op by just saying one big yes or no.

I have learnt alot on Nailand especially Cartalk, i wont hesitate to put it more answer than i am being asked. You should not stop me from doing so but critisize the wrong things i post and add to the right ones. Why should i say yes or no and walk away when the yes or no has assumptions attached to them which can change the answer in certain conditions. You want me to "automatically" assume conditions i know exist but pretend it doesnt.

From my understanding, its either you say;

yes/no (all things being equal)
Or
Yes/no (explain)

I chose the later but you want to force me to say the former. When both answers are correct. What are we talking about here.

adanny01:


You mean to say questions. I found 3 questions and i have different answers to each of them.

If you mean to say your level of understanding limits your understanding points i rainsed, you should not critisize what you dont understand.

Did the op ask only 1 question? I really need this answer from you. You seem to only focus on the first sentence made by op and neglect the rest of his post. What is your answer to the others?

1 is a yes/no question
2 is a right/wrong question
3 is a yes/no question

Question 1 is the same as question 3 but the 1 is NO and 3 is YES. The difference is in the sentence construction of the op. So you cant answer the op by just saying one big yes or no.

I have learnt alot on Nailand especially Cartalk, i wont hesitate to put it more answer than i am being asked. You should not stop me from doing so but critisize the wrong things i post and add to the right ones. Why should i say yes or no and walk away when the yes or no has assumptions attached to them which can change the answer in certain conditions. You want me to "automatically" assume conditions i know exist but pretend it doesnt.

From my understanding, its either you say;

yes/no (all things being equal)
Or
Yes/no (explain)

I chose the later but you want to force me to say the former. When both answers are correct. What are we talking about here.

erm I think you should check page one as i did, the OP asked just one question.And the answer to that is NO.

Can a car going at the speed of for instance 1ph overtake ano20km/t car doingher the same speed? I have argued about this on several occasions, because I believe the speed clock or odometer should be like a clock that's always accurate and no clock goes faster than others.
I know car engine, horsepower and capabilities differ. But then I believe a car going at the same speed can't overtake the other.
If I am doing 120 km/hr for another car to overtake me it must be doing at least 125 or 130, car gurus in the house please help.

erico2k2:

erm I think you should check page one as i did, the OP asked just one question.And the answer to that is NO.

Can a car going at the speed of for instance 1ph overtake ano20km/t car doingher the same speed? I have argued about this on several occasions, because I believe the speed clock or odometer should be like a clock that's always accurate and no clock goes faster than others.
I know car engine, horsepower and capabilities differ. But then I believe a car going at the same speed can't overtake the other.
If I am doing 120 km/hr for another car to overtake me it must be doing at least 125 or 130, car gurus in the house please help.

I have several times and have quoted it a few times even on this very last page of the thread. I quoted the op in my last reply to you.

Question: 1

ableguy:
Can a car going at the speed of for instance 120km/ph overtake another car doing the same speed?

Answer: No (all conditions being equal)

Question 2

I have argued about this on several occasions, because I believe the speed clock or odometer should be like a clock that's always accurate and no clock goes faster than others.

Answer: False believe (because blah blah blah....)

Question 3

I know car engine, horsepower and capabilities differ. But then I believe a car going at the same speed can't overtake the other.
If I am doing 120 km/hr for another car to overtake me it must be doing at least 125 or 130, car gurus in the house please help.

Answer: True (all things being equal)

Substitute all the blah blah blah blah with what i have being saying since last year which you wish i didnt talk about. All those arguments were geared towards clarifying the op's believe, whether its a question or not, giving him an opinion is like giving an answer to the question even if it does not come with a question mark.

adanny01:


I have several times and have quoted it a few times even on this very last page of the thread. I quoted the op in my last reply to you.

Question: 1


Answer: No (all conditions being equal)

Question 2


Answer: False believe (because blah blah blah....)

Question 3


Answer: True (all things being equal)

Substitute all the blah blah blah blah with what i have being saying since last year which you wish i didnt talk about. All those arguments were geared towards clarifying the op's believe, whether its a question or not, giving him an opinion is like giving an answer to the question even if it does not come with a question mark.

How does 2 and 3 you quoted constitute a question?

couragee:
This should not be an argument, if a man is running at 120km/h, how can he overtake another running at that same speed. W 120 is 120 regardless of the vehicle. The distance between both cars remains the same.

Thank you, its as simple as ABC.