GrizzlyBear:


What religious people call god, doesn't exist. The biblical god doesn't exist, same as the islamic god, and the hindu god, and all the other gods that ignorant humans have fabricated through history.
But that doesn't mean I believe that there isn't something out there that orchestrated the big bang and engineered the evolutionary process. I think it's silly to think that the universe just arose on it's own and formed the whole complexity and sophistication and mathematical laws that apply perfectly to it, without any force programming this whole thing into existence. I agree there is something out there, but whatever it is, I don't think it's the God of any religion, and I don't think it intervenes in our lives and I don't think it gives a Bleep about the earth and whatever exists in it. I also don't think we have the cognitive tools to understand such force. Humans recently evolved to make sense of their world, primarily to aid their survival, I don't think our brains have evolved to comprehend forces outside of our perceived reality

What we tag as "supernatural" are just aspects of the natural world that we don't have sufficient knowledge of.

You were probably in a haste to call yourself atheist in the first place. Judging from your post, you might be a Deist.

Deicide:

Base on your Definition no physical plane No nature?

I think you need to find another defination cause it contradict the first point you made..

Yes it can - there may be more than just universe just as there are more
than 1 galaxy. . . Nature can exist without any part just as you can exist
without your hands.

Since when did the universe become the definition for physical plain - i have no time to start arguing over your own misunderstanding.

Nature is the physical plain, universe exist in this physical plain - two different things for christ sake.

Therefore the physical plain [nature] can exist without the universe but the universe cannot without the physical plain - its so simple.

GrizzlyBear:


Again with the labels. I honestly don't give a fuucck about any labels. I don't even know what deist means and I don't care to know. The most important thing is that you can extrapolate my views from the comment I made.

So how did you arrive at calling yourself Atheist at first? Without even understanding it concepts?

I don't think it's a god, going by the religious notion of god. I think it's not something earthly humans can comprehend, at least with the present state of our consciousness and level of cognition.

This is True but why all the insults on Atheist? I don't argue with Deist cause i find their view to be Rational but what does it matter..

GrizzlyBear:


I agree with the bolded.

That means there is just NATURE - Ignorance doesn't make something super...

Because that would mean when we were ignorant of the existence of Neptune, it was supernatural..

Any part of nature we are ignorant of is still just "Nature" coining out words such as "supernatural" to describe them severes the context.

Deicide:

So how did you arrive at calling yourself Atheist at first? Without even understanding it concepts?

This is True but why all the insults on Atheist? I don't argue with Deist cause i find their view to be Rational but what does it matter..

So you admit that Atheists views like yours are irrational Since you find those of Deists to be Rational?

You seem to think that a tag or title defines you and not you defining the tag. Definitions came about based on actions first and not actions based on definitions. You still seem not to understand what the OP is lamenting about.

In a nutshell he is saying. .take your tag and shove it. Tags limit one is all he is saying.

johnydon22:


Someone can be atheistic and believe in Ghosts, Fairies, spirits, zombies, vampires.

Atheist simply is a label for those who don't believe in God(s)... Nothing more nothing less.

i never knew a two line sentence can be so hard for people to grasp.

Deicide:

Base on your Definition no physical plane No nature?

I think you need to find another defination cause it contradict the first point you made.. Or is there something am not getting

Yes there is... and that is the bolded..

Based on my Definition - No Physical plain no universe...

I do remember defining nature as the totality of the physical plain, so it beats me how you came up with the bolded..

raphieMontella:
i never knew a two line sentence can be so hard for people to grasp.

Beats me bro

@vickyrotex, you've been viewing this thread since it's inception. Are you having doubts about your beliefs? If you are, then it's a good sign. The bible and christianity are the biggest scams that have ever existed, because they have been used to successfully deceive more than a quater of the world's population, and everyone deserves to be free from such deceit.

Of course christianity has it's benefits, but it's benefits doesn't prove it's veracity. Take for instance your boyfriend lies to you that he has gotten a job where he would be paid 6 billion naira per year, and he is to start in 6 months time. This kind of news would make you happy. It would add joy and peace and excitement to your life. You could even spend your money on things you wouldn't normally spend, just because you believe you boyfriend has gotten a job of such calibre. But this is deceit, and you'd prefer to not be lied to. That's the same way christianity is. It's a grand deceit.

johnydon22:




Since when did the universe become the definition for physical plain - i have no time to start arguing over your own misunderstanding.

Nature is the physical plain, universe exist in this physical plain - two different things for christ sake.

Therefore the physical plain [nature] can exist without the universe but the universe cannot without the physical plain - its so simple.

I think i Get your point now..

naijadeyhia:



So you admit that Atheists views like yours are irrational Since you find those of Deists to be Rational?

You seem to think that a tag or title defines you and not you defining the tag. Definitions came about based on actions first and not actions based on definitions. You still seem not to understand what the OP is lamenting about.

In a nutshell he is saying. .take your tag and shove it. Tags limit one is all he is saying.

Still assuming ? This is really bad Habit for communication if You continue like this i won't even reply you back..

naijadeyhia:



So you admit that Atheists views like yours are irrational Since you find those of Deists to be Rational?

What is this logic? It's just an understandable position. Doesn't mean it's the only one. I don't argue with Deists either. It certainly doesn't seem like anything is interfering with the laws of nature as far as we Deists and atheists can see. Where we differ is that they say someone must have jump started all this nature while I refuse to jump to conclusions.

Didn't I tell you that Atheism is complex, different shades of it exists.

Now here we have a spiritual Atheist, who believes in chakra, third eye, supernatural etc his only problem is with Jehovah God.

Ogun, Shiva, Thor, Zeus, Oya could exist but not God. SMH

You would have disputed for hours with them only for the so called atheist to tell you that he is a spiritual atheist or an agnostic atheist or a half atheist to get out of the loop and entanglement his theories have roped him.

I have met guys who doubles as atheist and satanist at the same time.

The god of this world does not mind division among his own as long as it leads them away from the true God.

Cc:
winner01 , kingebukasblog ,scholar8200 Muafrika2 truthman2012, Image123 , OLAADEGBU ,, goodmuyis

4everGod, Jcross , jcross19, KingEbukasBlog, Scholar, scholar8200 , @ analice107, @ 4everGod, Anas09

Now you just did the same thing you accused atheists of. How do you know God doesn't exist? You believe that ghosts exists but not God? That's a worse delusion. Atheists are better of.

GrizzlyBear:


Did you read my original post at all? I don't believe in your God, because he doesn't exist, and there is a mountain of evidence that substantiates his non existence.

Me venting about atheists doesn't mean I have switched to religion, let alone christianity.

Atheistic view of God is as a result of misunderstanding of the term God. Religion have presented a wrong idea of God,therefore Atheism is a way rejecting these claims. A sound education on what God is still unavailable to both parties,hence the continuous fight and endless debates.

I don't go by the term Atheist anymore,I simply say I am non-religious. I have debated a few Atheists who are short -sighted and it was really painful to see someone argue blindly. Many of them live in a 2 dimensional world,they can't explain simple theories,yet they will accept no new knowledge.

This dude is basically worse than atheists and on a whole new level of ignorant too.

Pick a struggle. Outrightly refusing to accept the possibility that God exists but believing that "something" is out there in the universe? What is out there and how do you know sir? Also prove that spirits and ghosts exists.

Deicide:

If I remember Correctly God is also Supernatural right?

Am not Ignorant You are the one that Actually is...

For Someone that Believes that Supernatural Exist and Still believes that God(supernatural) doesn't Exist I think you have A problem..

You can start by tell us the once you experienced.

GrizzlyBear:


You've spoken perfectly well. I love your last paragraph. A world view shouldn't circumscribe your perception and understanding of your world, and most importantly, it shouldn't stifle curiousity, but most atheists allow their atheism to. I think they feel atheism is just the ultimate password to dismiss any claim that's not "scientific," forgetting that science is still a growing field, plus lots of scientists tend to not pay attention to hypothesis that they feel isn't "helpful" to them, hence hobbling the growth or expansion of that hypothesis.

That's where religion tends to have an upper hand. The people who wrote the various religious texts, understand that there are certain esoteric natural principles and knowledge, and they interpolated them into their books, as a means of preserving them, but atheists don't care about this. All they know is that the supernatural doesn't exist. Anything that can't be proven by scientific laws doesn't exist. Blah blah blah. Rubbish!!

Atheists call religious people intellectually lazy, not knowing that they are intellectually lazy as well, because they see atheism at the last branch of the questioning tree and they sit on that branch and fold their arms, believing that they have reached the zenith of knowledge.

The bolded sums it up.

Science is still a growing field that hardly answers every question, that hardly provides cure for many diseases: a field that is still in the journey of new discoveries.

GrizzlyBear:


This whole thread, isn't about me proving anything to you. It's about me being livid at the fact that people like you, who claim to be atheists, dismiss claims arbitrarily, because you already have preconceived notions that the supernatural doesn't exist, despite not critically examining the claims and sourcing for evidence.

You are as ignorant as theists. The only knowledge you have over them is the knowledge that their god doesn't exist.

Are you expecting me to dissect every paranormal claim right now? That would take eons. What paranormal claim have you critically explored and found to be false?

From all your writings, it's obvious that your aggression is a misplaced one.

Your mental unrest stems from you not wanting to be seen as an atheist, and it appears you don't yet know which group of the nones you want to align it.

From the analysis of your opinions so far, you're an AGNOSTIST, period!

Do explore this your identity, you will get rest. Rather than attacking atheism wrongly.

May be your understanding of "Rational Atheism", will help you.

GrizzlyBear:
I think from now on, I am going to stop referring to myself as an atheist. I think the term ATHEIST, has been adulterated and hijacked by people who think that believing in the non existence of god, gives them the right to explicitly disprove everything that seems subjectively implausible to them.

The need to create this thread was aroused just minutes ago, when I read a comment from a thread I created earlier today about life fields. I asked a question about ghosts, and an atheist replied me saying that ghosts don't exist and it's fiction. I was so outraged. I wasn't angry at his opinion, but I was angry at the way in which he expressed it, which invariably brought to mind, the exasperating instances where atheists just directly reject claims, because they deem it implausible, without even critically examining such claims.

Atheism is the disbelieve in the existence of God, not ghosts, telekinesis, telepathy, precognition, magic, spells, or things we don't have sufficient knowledge about. There are branches of science and certain scientific hypothesis such as: the hypothesis of multiverses and parallel universes, that have been marginalized and relegated to the periphery of the domain of science, because most scientists don't want to bother themselves with such things because they think it's implausible or mystical.

I hate when Atheists, just because they don't believe God exists, think they should also reject any "supernatural" claim that seems implausible to them.

I really hate this Atheist tag. I have decided to drop it. You guys do the exact same thing religious people do. You fill in gaps in knowledge with arrogant assertions of nonexistence. Atheism shouldn't stand as a barrier to expand your knowledge about your world, instead, it should be a spring board to exploring nature and having an open mind about new ideas and experiences.

That's why I dislike Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Denneth, and every other arrogant, close minded, atheist out there.
Sam Harris is the only outspoken atheist I can bother listening to, because although he doesn't believe the God of any religion exists, he is open to other theories that explain "supernatural" occurrences. It was through him I learned about the Multiverse hypothesis, Chakras and certain meditational practices that provide experiences that have been held hostage by religion.

You atheists allow your atheistic world view to prevent you from being open minded, just the same as religious people. You all are the same.

Technically speaking, you're an atheist. That's all that really matters.

Subjectively, I wouldn't regard you as one as you seem to believe in a lot of nonsense just because

What's the difference between believing in supernatural ghosts vs believing in supernatural god?

Nothing

Therefore, I see little difference between you and the average theist. Heck, I even think quite a few would be more consistent and logical than you

shadeyinka:
Didn't I tell you that Atheism is complex, different shades of it exists.

Now here we have a spiritual Atheist, who believes in chakra, third eye, supernatural etc his only problem is with Jehovah God.

Ogun, Shiva, Thor, Zeus, Oya could exist but not God. SMH

You would have disputed for hours with them only for the so called atheist to tell you that he is a spiritual atheist or an agnostic atheist or a half atheist to get out of the loop and entanglement his theories have roped him.

I have met guys who doubles as atheist and satanist at the same time.

The god of this world does not mind division among his own as long as it leads them away from the true God.

Cc:
winner01 , kingebukasblog ,scholar8200 Muafrika2 truthman2012, Image123 , OLAADEGBU ,, goodmuyis

4everGod, Jcross , jcross19, KingEbukasBlog, Scholar, scholar8200 , @ analice107, @ 4everGod, Anas09

When i read "From Witchcraft to Christ", by Doren Irvin, was when i knew that there's nothing like atheism. Its just a ploy of satan to deceive the uninformed.

In Satanism, she said, they have Arms, Atheism is an arm in Satanism. (All this NL little boys athiest are like street urchins. They know nothing).

Their job is to sell the idea that Satan does not exist. If Men believes that Satan does not exist, it will be easier to also say, theres no God. This is the duty of atheism

When an initiate comes in, base on your strong point, they shift you to a section where you'd function well. She was sent to the Witchcraft arm, because he could get into people easily and he could manipulate and have her way. She had powers to cast spells, so, she did well there.


Athiesm is Satans own religion. Why does it take so long for people to get it?

Atheism is the rejection of an external being, but the projection of SELF.

IS that not who satan is? Is that not how he got Adam to Fall.



Atheism began in Eden.

Deny God, for you are God yourself. You don't need Jehoavh coming down here, dictating to you as if you don't have a mind of you own, he said to Adam.

Be wise and be a man of your own devices.

Break free and think freely. If you are your own Master, you'd be free. No axcounatbility. What you deem right, will be right, and what you seem wrong be wrong.
You make your own laws. That was satan.
Arent we seeing the same thing playing out in atheists even as minute as NL kids atheists?

Today, wen u believe in God, atheists look at you as brain dead, u can't think for youraelf.

Isnt that what satan said to Adam in Eden?

Atheism is Satans own religion.

Okay, let's carry out this test. Bros open a thread castigating Lucider. Do this and wait for athiest come at you with loaded guns.

Here in NL have u ever seen any atheist open a thread casting aspasions on allah or Buddha or Zeus, thor, Odin or any African diety? No. Why are they sooo incenced agaisnt Yahweh?

Something is there.

Anas09:

When i read "From Witchcraft to Christ", by Doren Irvin, was when i knew that there's nothing like atheism. Its just a ploy of satan to deceive the uninformed.

In Satanism, she said, they have Arms, Atheism is an arm in Satanism. (All this NL little boys athiest are like street urchins. They know nothing).

Their job is to sell the idea that Satan does not exist. If Men believes that Satan does not exist, it will be easier to also say, theres no God. This is the duty of atheism

When an initiate comes in, base on your strong point, they shift you to a section where you'd function well. She was sent to the Witchcraft arm, because he could get into people easily and he could manipulate and have her way. She had powers to cast spells, so, she did well there.


Athiesm is Satans own religion. Why does it take so long for people to get it?

Atheism is the rejection of an external being, but the projection of SELF.

IS that not who satan is? Is that not how he got Adam to Fall.



Atheism began in Eden.

Deny God, for you are God yourself. You don't need Jehoavh coming down here, dictating to you as if you don't have a mind of you own, he said to Adam.

Be wise and be a man of your own devices.

Break free and think freely. If you are your own Master, you'd be free. No axcounatbility. What you deem right, will be right, and what you seem wrong be wrong.
You make your own laws. That was satan.
Arent we seeing the same thing playing out in atheists even as minute as NL kids atheists?

Today, wen u believe in God, atheists look at you as brain dead, u can't think for youraelf.

Isnt that what satan said to Adam in Eden?

Atheism is Satans own religion.

Okay, let's carry out this test. Bros open a thread castigating Lucider. Do this and wait for athiest come at you with loaded guns.

Here in NL have u ever seen any atheist open a thread casting aspasions on allah or Buddha or Zeus, thor, Odin or any African diety? No. Why are they sooo incenced agaisnt Yahweh?

Something is there.

GOD bless you brother, I have always maintain that Atheism is formulated, organized and established against Christians, as if we the only theist

rhektor:


GOD bless you brother, I have always maintain that Atheism is formulated, organized and established
against Christians, as if we the only theist

The greatest trick played on mans intellect is to make him belive satan does not exists.

Satans best keep secret is disguise.

Anas09:

The greatest trick played on mans intellect is to make him belive satan does not exists.

Satans best keep secret is disguise.

Exactly... The same way the Muslims Think you Christians are Been Blinded by the Devil...

@OP

Someone like you is not independent mined (conscientious) and from all indications you're yet to achieve self-realization, this explained the reason why you lacked understanding prior to now that atheists are a group of people who chooses to gloss their ignorance about the source of all (God, Creator of the universe, Allah or whatever name that suits one to call it) with illusory proclamation of its non-existence. But I don't normally blame them much, because Abrahamic religions proponents and their so called holy books are all any discerning but non conscientious and thoroughly informed mind need to interact with or read to automatically reject a sole creator of the universe.

There's a God. Meanwhile, we human beings are imperfect manifestation of a perfect him. He has no rival, so the notion of a possible another supernatural rival force doesn't exist. Evil happenstances which are usually ascribes to satan or devil are products of human beings choices of bad over good, because God gave us human beings the great gifts of free will and brain. And he provided to us, all we need to live and succeed independent of his minute intervention. So he neither need our praises nor expects our prayers. To reverent him by any person is better independently decided. . . As for me, I choose to reverent him by doing good to people within my ability, while always striving to limit bad deeds against others.

If you have a need instead of praying, kindly lookout for a human being that has solution to such a need you have and get help. The only problem you will encounter is when you have nothing to offer as a reciprocation for what you intend to gain from another. The importance for this simply analogy is to tell you that you need to start accepting responsibility of your actions and inaction. Make yourself useful, so that you can become an asset which can be useful to other assets too and vise versa.

Deicide:

Exactly... The same way the Muslims Think you Christians are Been Blinded by the Devil...

the Christians seem elated by this thread

do they think this thread does them any favours?

its hilarious

hopefulLandlord:


the Christians seem elated by this thread

do they think this thread does them any favours?

its hilarious

I think Most didn't Even read The OP...

And besides the Op is Confused..

shadeyinka:
Didn't I tell you that Atheism is complex, different shades of it exists.

Now here we have a spiritual Atheist, who believes in chakra, third eye, supernatural etc his only problem is with Jehovah God.

Ogun, Shiva, Thor, Zeus, Oya could exist but not God. SMH

You would have disputed for hours with them only for the so called atheist to tell you that he is a spiritual atheist or an agnostic atheist or a half atheist to get out of the loop and entanglement his theories have roped him.

I have met guys who doubles as atheist and satanist at the same time.

The god of this world does not mind division among his own as long as it leads them away from the true God.

Cc:
winner01 , kingebukasblog ,scholar8200 Muafrika2 truthman2012, Image123 , OLAADEGBU ,, goodmuyis

4everGod, Jcross , jcross19, KingEbukasBlog, Scholar, scholar8200 , @ analice107, @ 4everGod, Anas09

The difficulty the OP is having in arriving, at a convincing mental adjustment to the concept of God idea, can't possibly be a sufficient ground for you, to wrongly define rational atheism.

And of course, you have either mischievously or ignorantly stumbled, where the OP did stumbled.

Note the following:

1. Your God says in Bible, don't make images of me. Yet Catholic Church not only make images of Jesus and Mary, they worship the same images.

2. Cherubim and celestial churches practice polygamy, yet pentecostal says monogamy is the order.

3. Pentecostal churches says Christians are not under the law, yet they practice tithing and first fruit offering.

4. Jéhovah witnesses will never endorse marriage between their members and Rccg members. Yet your Bible says all of you are one in christ.

5. Deeper life Church will say you are going to hell because you wear ornaments, yet winners, Rccg etc says deeper is lying.

Where is your true God or jehovah, in the midst of all these fractionalization and factional disposition of you religious folks?

The absurdities of religion and God idea is unlimited.

You will do well to understand the concept and ideological basis of "rational atheism".

akintom:



The difficulty the OP is having in arriving, at a convincing mental adjustment to the concept of God idea, can't possibly be a sufficient ground for you, to wrongly define rational atheism.

And of course, you have either mischievously or ignorantly stumbled, where the OP did stumbled.

Note the following:

1. Your God says in Bible, don't make images of me. Yet Catholic Church not only make images of Jesus and Mary, they worship the same images.

2. Cherubim and celestial churches practice polygamy, yet pentecostal says monogamy is the order.

3. Pentecostal churches says Christians are not under the law, yet they practice tithing and first fruit offering.

4. Jéhovah witnesses will never endorse marriage between their members and Rccg members. Yet your Bible says all of you are one in christ.

5. Deeper life Church will say you are going to hell because you wear ornaments, yet winners, Rccg etc says deeper is lying.

Where is your true God or jehovah, in the midst of all these fractionalization and factional disposition of you religious folks?

The absurdities of religion and God idea is unlimited.

You will do well to understand the concept and ideological basis of "rational atheism".

that's we have doctrines in christiandom but one thing old us together.

jcross19:
that's we have doctrines in christiandom but one thing old us together.

And what could that possibly be?

akintom:



The difficulty the OP is having in arriving, at a convincing mental adjustment to the concept of God idea, can't possibly be a sufficient ground for you, to wrongly define rational atheism.

And of course, you have either mischievously or ignorantly stumbled, where the OP did stumbled.

Note the following:

1. Your God says in Bible, don't make images of me. Yet Catholic Church not only make images of Jesus and Mary, they worship the same images.

2. Cherubim and celestial churches practice polygamy, yet pentecostal says monogamy is the order.

3. Pentecostal churches says Christians are not under the law, yet they practice tithing and first fruit offering.

4. Jéhovah witnesses will never endorse marriage between their members and Rccg members. Yet your Bible says all of you are one in christ.

5. Deeper life Church will say you are going to hell because you wear ornaments, yet winners, Rccg etc says deeper is lying.

Where is your true God or jehovah, in the midst of all these fractionalization and factional disposition of you religious folks?

The absurdities of religion and God idea is unlimited.

You will do well to understand the concept and ideological basis of "rational atheism".

Will you please then educate me as what is meant by rational atheism?

I think the issue I've raised is more deeper than what you just presented. The issue is like a theist Christian, Muslim, Animist Claiming that God exists BUT spirits do not exist. The central core of Theism is the believe that spirits exist.

In the OPs case, it is unthinkable to believe that God doesn't exist (or as some other atheist will say: they do not believe in Gods) and yet acclaim that spirits exist.

The average atheist does not believe in existence of consciousness outside the material world which negates the concept of spiritism.

Their lies my point of discuss.

akintom:


And what could that possibly be?

the death and resurrection of jesus christ.

shadeyinka:


Will you please then educate me as what is meant by rational atheism?

I think the issue I've raised is more deeper than what you just presented. The issue is like a theist Christian, Muslim, Animist Claiming that God exists BUT spirits do not exist. The central core of Theism is the believe that spirits exist.

In the OPs case, it is unthinkable to believe that God doesn't exist (or as some other atheist will say: they do not believe in Gods) and yet acclaim that spirits exist.

The average atheist does not believe in existence of consciousness outside the material world which negates the concept of spiritism.

Their lies my point of discuss.

I have settled the difficulty OP is contending with.

My issue with your response is that, you used the errors (atheist believing in spirit) of the OP, to wrongly define who an atheist is.

A Google check on "rational atheism", will guide you on understanding the concept and ideologies of atheism.