This front row seat would go well with some popcorn and Pepsi.....

Let me see if i can iron things out for GrizzlyBear, not addressing yourself as an atheist doesn't make one less atheistic than others, for someone who do not believe in God(s) the lingual label for that is "Atheist" whether you agree to it or not.

You may loath the intellectual arrogance of some atheists which most times i regard as a delusion, the idea that "atheism is synonymous to intellectual superiority" you may wish to attack that but the whole show of "i'm not an atheist but i don't believe in God(s) is as laughable as pointing at your laptop and say "this is no longer a computer, it is a laptop"

I can even argue that the word "atheist" should not exist - the only reason the word atheist exist is because the subject of God is a matter of global cultural concern, it reaps much opinion of the greater populace.

We don't have labels for those who don't play football, or drink beer or those who don't play basketball.. we don't look at a person who don't play basketball and say "Hey that guy is abasketic" its ludicrous.

I agree there is a limit to tags, i myself would love a boundless nature or way of seeing myself but the world make up these tags and labels not a name you give yourself or a religion you join.

By virtue of unbelief in deities there is no such thing as i'm no longer an atheist.

jonbellion:
hmmm well you're still technically an atheist naa
You don't believe in Gods
But you're not ignorant enough to say there is nothing out there beyond your understanding
Agnostic athiest

I honestly don't fancy these labels. I am just a curious human being who values knowledge and truth, and who is constantly caliberating his logical metric and moral scruples to precisely detect religious, philosophical and epistemological bullshit.

GrizzlyBear:
I think from now on, I am going to stop referring to myself as an atheist. I think the term ATHEIST, has been adulterated and hijacked by people who think that believing in the non existence of god, gives them the right to explicitly disprove everything that seems subjectively implausible to them.

The need to create this thread was aroused just minutes ago, when I read a comment from a thread I created earlier today about life fields. I asked a question about ghosts, and an atheist replied me saying that ghosts don't exist and it's fiction. I was so outraged. I wasn't angry at his opinion, but I was angry at the way in which he expressed it, which invariably brought to mind, the exasperating instances where atheists just directly reject claims, because they deem it implausible, without even critically examining such claims.

Atheism is the disbelieve in the existence of God, not ghosts, telekinesis, telepathy, precognition, magic, spells, or things we don't have sufficient knowledge about. There are branches of science and certain scientific hypothesis such as: the hypothesis of multiverses and parallel universes, that have been marginalized and relegated to the periphery of the domain of science, because most scientists don't want to bother themselves with such things because they think it's implausible or mystical.

I hate when Atheists, just because they don't believe God exists, think they should also reject any "supernatural" claim that seems implausible to them.

I really hate this Atheist tag. I have decided to drop it. You guys do the exact same thing religious people do. You fill in gaps of knowledge with arrogant assertions of nonexistence. Atheism shouldn't stand as a barrier to expand your knowledge about your world, instead, it should be a spring board to exploring nature and having an open mind about new ideas and experiences.

That's why I dislike Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Denneth, and every other arrogant, close minded, atheist out there.
Sam Harris is the only outspoken atheist I can bother listening to, because although he doesn't believe the God of any religion exists, he is open to other theories that explain "supernatural" occurrences. It was through him I learned about the Multiverse hypothesis, Chakras and certain meditational practices that provide experiences that have been held hostage by religion.

You atheists allow your atheistic world view to prevent you from being open minded, just the same as religious people. You guys are the same.

Grizzly Nwa bear how you doing? I am glad to read your thread as it shows maturity and truth. Over time we have been advocating for a better atheistic worldview which is why a certain thread on NL touched on atheists beginning to DO and not just TALK.

A lot of your Atheist brethren are indeed closemined and see atheism as a free pass to be while passing the buck to science without being personally involved themselves for sake of personal research and knowledge...Its been all talk devoid of substance hence the reason why they have had the same old and worn oit arguments over and over again which leans towards indoctrination.

Clearly this error is clear for you to see as even some here are already attacking your openness and demanding proof when they have no wish to verify even when offered.

Knowledge is the only thing that makes us different from beasts and I am glad that even though your moniker is Grizzlybear you are no beast... Be human and let those who wish to wallow in ignorance keep doing so.

Have a great night.

GrizzlyBear:


I honestly don't fancy these labels. I am just a curious human being who values knowledge and truth, and who is constantly caliberating his logical metric and moral scruples to precisely detect religious, philosophical and epistemological bullshit.

Exactly nobody fancy labels, do you think an astrophile [someone who loves stars] chose the label?

No! it's simply a lingual concept to connote a person who loves stars, there is no limit to the label "atheist/atheism"

It does not have requirements or rule or set of things you need to believe or agree with - you may not really call yourself that or often use the tag.

As long as you have no belief in God(s) - that's all to it.

GrizzlyBear:

This whole thread, isn't about me proving anything to you. It's about me being livid at the fact that people like you, who claim to be atheists, dismiss claims arbitrarily, because you already have preconceived notions that the supernatural doesn't exist, despite not critically examining the claims and sourcing for evidence.

If I remember Correctly God is also Supernatural right?

You are as ignorant as theists. The only knowledge you have over them is the knowledge that their god doesn't exist.

Am not Ignorant You are the one that Actually is...

For Someone that Believes that Supernatural Exist and Still believes that God(supernatural) doesn't Exist I think you have A problem..

Are you expecting me to dissect every paranormal claim right now? That would take eons. What paranormal claim have you critically explored and found to be false ?

You can start by tell us the once you experienced.

johnydon22:


Someone can be atheistic and believe in Ghosts, Fairies, spirits, zombies, vampires.

Atheist simply is a label for those who don't believe in God(s)... Nothing more nothing less.

This is Illogical!! Can you Explain to me How those Stuff doesn't connect to a God(The Creator)

GrizzlyBear:
I think from now on, I am going to stop referring to myself as an atheist. I think the term ATHEIST, has been adulterated and hijacked by people who think that believing in the non existence of god, gives them the right to explicitly disprove everything that seems subjectively implausible to them.

The need to create this thread was aroused just minutes ago, when I read a comment from a thread I created earlier today about life fields. I asked a question about ghosts, and an atheist replied me saying that ghosts don't exist and it's fiction. I was so outraged. I wasn't angry at his opinion, but I was angry at the way in which he expressed it, which invariably brought to mind, the exasperating instances where atheists just directly reject claims, because they deem it implausible, without even critically examining such claims.

Atheism is the disbelieve in the existence of God, not ghosts, telekinesis, telepathy, precognition, magic, spells, or things we don't have sufficient knowledge about. There are branches of science and certain scientific hypothesis such as: the hypothesis of multiverses and parallel universes, that have been marginalized and relegated to the periphery of the domain of science, because most scientists don't want to bother themselves with such things because they think it's implausible or mystical.

I hate when Atheists, just because they don't believe God exists, think they should also reject any "supernatural" claim that seems implausible to them.

I really hate this Atheist tag. I have decided to drop it. You guys do the exact same thing religious people do. You fill in gaps of knowledge with arrogant assertions of nonexistence. Atheism shouldn't stand as a barrier to expand your knowledge about your world, instead, it should be a spring board to exploring nature and having an open mind about new ideas and experiences.

That's why I dislike Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Denneth, and every other arrogant, close minded, atheist out there.
Sam Harris is the only outspoken atheist I can bother listening to, because although he doesn't believe the God of any religion exists, he is open to other theories that explain "supernatural" occurrences. It was through him I learned about the Multiverse hypothesis, Chakras and certain meditational practices that provide experiences that have been held hostage by religion.

You atheists allow your atheistic world view to prevent you from being open minded, just the same as religious people. You guys are the same.

Finally an "atheist" who understands my litany of complaints about how arrogant ,ignorant and close minded most atheists are . Atheism simply means no Gods and you can hold other beliefs and hypothesis about life and the existence of everything .

Well done bro . Its surprising its coming from you though .


cc : winner01 , felixomor , naijadeyhia , richirich713 -my brothers , someone finally gets it

Deicide:

This is Illogical!! Can you Explain to me How those Stuff doesn't connect to a God(The Creator)

You really have a long way to go

You need this thread - Atheists Who Believe In Reincarnation , Spirits , Voodoo - Let's Discuss : https://www.nairaland.com/3320685/atheists-believe-reincarnation-spirits-voodoo

Deicide:

If I remember Correctly God is also Supernatural right?

Am not Ignorant You are the one that Actually is...

For Someone that Believes that Supernatural Exist and Still believes that God(supernatural) doesn't Exist I think you have A problem..

You can start by tell us the once you experienced.

Look at your rabid attacks on someone who is only expressing himself. Must he be like you before yoy would embrace his views?

Not everyone is full of hate and spite like you. We know that perhaps God did not help you win the lottery which is why you must hate the very thought of Him..lol

However your close mindedness is chocking you to death and you do not even know it.

Deicide:

This is Illogical!! Can you Explain to me How those Stuff doesn't connect to a God(The Creator)

Nature can exist with or without humans - the illogical assertion is to think that for nature to exist [and humans are natural beings] therefore there must be humans - it's untrue - nature can swimmingly be with or without humans.

And just as nature is not subjected to the existence of humans to be, so is the supernatural [if such a thing be] is not subjected to the existence of deities to be. .

I gave an example with humans to show the relationship. . By concept God(s) are supernatural beings just as humans are natural beings - the plains of existence [natural] or [supernatural] can be with or without certain being inside them.

KingEbukasBlog:


Finally an "atheist" who understands my litany of complaints about how arrogant ,ignorant and close minded most atheists are . Atheism simply means no Gods and you can hold other beliefs and hypothesis about life and the existence of everything .

Well done bro . Its surprising its coming from you though .


cc : winner01 , felixomor , naijadeyhia , richirich713 -my brothers , someone finally gets it

I still remember having to clear you on this - Not long ago you also thought atheism means disbelief in spirits/voodoos or spirity things.

i'm quite glad

naijadeyhia:



Look at your rabid attacks on someone who is only expressing himself. Must he be like you before yoy would embrace his views?

Not everyone is full of hate and spite like you. We know that perhaps God did not help you win the lottery which is why you must hate the very thought of Him..lol

However your close mindedness is chocking you to death and you do not even know it.

Still assuming?

johnydon22:


I still remember having to clear you on this - Not long ago you also thought atheism means disbelief in spirits/voodoos or spirity things.

i'm quite glad

Thanks . I still remember

johnydon22:


Exactly nobody fancy labels, do you think an astrophile [someone who loves stars] chose the label?

No! it's simply a lingual concept to connote a person who loves stars, there is no limit to the label "atheist/atheism"

It does not have requirements or rule or set of things you need to believe or agree with - you may not really call yourself that or often you the tag.

As long as you have no belief in God(s) - that's all to it.

I think some people actually do fancy labels. Some people see labels as a jet pack that lifts them to lofty intellectual zeus-like palaces, where they sit arrogantly, and smile sneeringly at the perceived unintelligence of others. Or people adopting labels because they sound cool, or because they are being adopted by cool people, and they feel like belonging to such unit.

That's why you have people adopting labels like "feminism" and "secular humanist," without fully understanding what these labels even mean, or practicing the precise tenets that these labels fundamentally espouse.

KingEbukasBlog:


You really have a long way to go

You need this thread - Atheists Who Believe In Reincarnation , Spirits , Voodoo - Let's Discuss : https://www.nairaland.com/3320685/atheists-believe-reincarnation-spirits-voodoo

And So?

GrizzlyBear:


I honestly don't fancy these labels. I am just a curious human being who values knowledge and truth, and who is constantly caliberating his logical metric and moral scruples to precisely detect religious, philosophical and epistemological bullshit.

I don't like being an atheist either. It's a label that frankly sucks. Firstly most people routinely ignore the agnostic atheist position which is "l don't know if there is a God or not but I don't believe" as most assume atheism to be the explicit rejection of God, which it is not necessarily. I feel my position is being misrepresented under the umbrella of atheism. Not to mention the negative almost satanist connotation the term seems to imply. So I don't normally present myself as an atheist in real life. I'm generally non religious or secular humanist and such. However whether or not I like the term or i agree with what other atheists do or say the fact is I don't believe in any God and so by definition I am an atheist. It's just a fact.

GrizzlyBear:


I think some people actually do fancy labels. Some people see labels as a jet pack that lifts them to lofty intellectual zeus-like palaces, where they sit arrogantly, and smile sneeringly at the perceived unintelligence of others. Or people adopting labels because they sound cool, or because they are being adopted by cool people, and they feel like belonging to such unit.

That's why you have people adopting labels like "feminism" and "secular humanist," without fully understanding what these labels even mean, or practicing the precise tenets that these labels fundamentally espouse.

cc Deicide, Hardmirror, Seun

GrizzlyBear:
I think from now on, I am going to stop referring to myself as an atheist. I think the term ATHEIST, has been adulterated and hijacked by people who think that believing in the non existence of god, gives them the right to explicitly disprove everything that seems subjectively implausible to them.

The need to create this thread was aroused just minutes ago, when I read a comment from a thread I created earlier today about life fields. I asked a question about ghosts, and an atheist replied me saying that ghosts don't exist and it's fiction. I was so outraged. I wasn't angry at his opinion, but I was angry at the way in which he expressed it, which invariably brought to mind, the exasperating instances where atheists just directly reject claims, because they deem it implausible, without even critically examining such claims.

Atheism is the disbelieve in the existence of God, not ghosts, telekinesis, telepathy, precognition, magic, spells, or things we don't have sufficient knowledge about. There are branches of science and certain scientific hypothesis such as: the hypothesis of multiverses and parallel universes, that have been marginalized and relegated to the periphery of the domain of science, because most scientists don't want to bother themselves with such things because they think it's implausible or mystical.

I hate when Atheists, just because they don't believe God exists, think they should also reject any "supernatural" claim that seems implausible to them.

I really hate this Atheist tag. I have decided to drop it. You guys do the exact same thing religious people do. You fill in gaps of knowledge with arrogant assertions of nonexistence. Atheism shouldn't stand as a barrier to expand your knowledge about your world, instead, it should be a spring board to exploring nature and having an open mind about new ideas and experiences.

That's why I dislike Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Denneth, and every other arrogant, close minded, atheist out there.
Sam Harris is the only outspoken atheist I can bother listening to, because although he doesn't believe the God of any religion exists, he is open to other theories that explain "supernatural" occurrences. It was through him I learned about the Multiverse hypothesis, Chakras and certain meditational practices that provide experiences that have been held hostage by religion.

You atheists allow your atheistic world view to prevent you from being open minded, just the same as religious people. You guys are the same.

All I can do is to smile at the ignorance of people who attach supernatural occurrences to a particular god e.g Yahweh, Vishnu, etc. Things happen because they just must happen. Life is programmed for some things to happen. I personally experience supernatural things more frequently than when I was still worshipping a particular god called Yahweh(whom I just realised to be Satan in disguise). Ghosts, humans, miracles(coincidental powers) and all supposed gods are the product of GOD ALMIGHTY(which is NATURE/UNIVERSE). if nature can make humans to come about, then NATURE CAN TAKE THE FORM OF FLESH TOO AT WILL. NATURE IS GOD; WE ARE PART OF NATURE; WE ARE GOD.

johnydon22:


Nature can exist with or without humans - the illogical assertion is to think that for nature to exist [and humans are natural beings] therefore there must be humans - it's untrue - nature can swimmingly be with or without humans.

Can Nature Exist without the Universe and what is Nature?

And just as nature is not subjected to the existence of humans to be, so is the supernatural [if such a thing be] is not subjected to the existence of deities to be. .

Is nature Subjected to the Universe or The Universe Subjected to Nature?

I gave an example with humans to show the relationship. . By concept God(s) are supernatural beings just as humans are natural beings - the plains of existence [natural] or [supernatural] can be with or without certain being inside them.

What is the Relationship between Nature And the Universe?

Deicide:

If I remember Correctly God is also Supernatural right?

Am not Ignorant You are the one that Actually is...

For Someone that Believes that Supernatural Exist and Still believes that God(supernatural) doesn't Exist I think you have A problem..

What religious people call god, doesn't exist. The biblical god doesn't exist, same as the islamic god, and the hindu god, and all the other gods that ignorant humans have fabricated through history.
But that doesn't mean I believe that there isn't something out there that orchestrated the big bang and engineered the evolutionary process. I think it's silly to think that the universe just arose on it's own and formed the whole complexity and sophistication and mathematical laws that apply perfectly to it, without any force programming this whole thing into existence. I agree there is something out there, but whatever it is, I don't think it's the God of any religion, and I don't think it intervenes in our lives and I don't think it gives a Bleep about the earth and whatever exists in it. I also don't think we have the cognitive tools to understand such force. Humans recently evolved to make sense of their world, primarily to aid their survival, I don't think our brains have evolved to comprehend forces outside of our perceived reality

What we tag as "supernatural" are just aspects of the natural world that we don't have sufficient knowledge of.

GrizzlyBear:


I think some people actually do fancy labels. Some people see labels as a jet pack that lifts them to lofty intellectual zeus-like palaces, where they sit arrogantly, and smile sneeringly at the perceived unintelligence of others. Or people adopting labels because they sound cool, or because they are being adopted by cool people, and they feel like belonging to such unit.

That's why you have people adopting labels like "feminism" and "secular humanist," without fully understanding what these labels even mean, or practicing the precise tenets that these labels fundamentally espouse.

I'm an astrophile - i have intense love for stars, i seat and watch them for hours at night - i use this label just to connote in a simple way an important part of me.

That exactly is the context of using the word "atheist" its just a simple way to lay out a simple part of you.

People are bound to read meanings into words that are stackly not related, people are bound to subtly mostly unconsiously add more to a word than it is.

Take "Abo_ki" as an example, that word is simple a word for "My friend" in hause, simple and beautiful expression that is.

but in the nigeria of today, it is seen with a lot of condescension that "ab_oki" is now a popular insult.

I wonder when "My friend" became an insult. [ even nairaland censored the word "abok_i" to "northerner" now you get what i am saying]

So that someone attaches arrogance to the word "atheist/atheism" it doesn't change the simple nature of the word, it is only a mark of naivete or ignorance on the person's part and true intelligence is knowing that subtle unrelated attachments subconsciously or by implication into a word does not affect the actual humble meaning of the word.

Atheism is simply a word just like Astrophile - Another astrophile somewhere else may think being astrophile makes him a human with more depth than others but this is incorrect, its just a personal delusion and has nothing to do with that word Astrophile which is just a humble lingual connotation.

Haba
Grizzlybear is all this because of my statement?
Because I don't think you quite understood me.
I am willing to believe anything as long as it is supported by evidence, real scientific evidence.
Whether it be flying cows, dragons, unicorns, ghost.
As long as there is substantial evidence for it, I will believe it.
It seems strange that you can believe in ghosts without substantial evidence but don't make the same exception for God.
Anyway, prove it and I will believe it, I'm very open minded.

Deicide:

Can Nature Exist without the Universe and what is Nature?

Yes it can - there may be more than just universe just as there are more than 1 galaxy. . . Nature can exist without any part just as you can exist without your hands.

It may be defined as the totality of the Physical plain.

Is nature Subjected to the Universe or The Universe Subjected to Nature?

Universe is subject to nature.

What is the Relationship between Nature And the Universe?

This depends on the boundaries of nature if there be one - As Physics goes our universe may just be a tiny part of nature.

KingEbukasBlog:


Thanks . I still remember

Cool so humbly teach others too as i took time to teach you - that's how we develop ourselves and let others share in it.

This is one thread worth reading.

Especially for those charlatans that like parading science up and down as the base for their atheism.

GrizzlyBear:


What religious people call god, doesn't exist. The biblical god doesn't exist, same as the islamic god, and the hindu god, and all the other gods that ignorant humans have fabricated through history.
But that doesn't mean I believe that there isn't something out there that orchestrated the big bang and engineered the evolutionary process . I think it's silly to think that the universe just arose on it's own and formed the whole complexity and sophistication and mathematical laws that apply perfectly to it, without any force programming this whole thing into existence. I agree there is something out there, but whatever it is, I don't think it's the God of any religion, and I don't think it intervenes in our lives and I don't think it gives a Bleep about the earth and whatever exists in it.

If i Can Remember correctly this are The Views Deist Hold to?

I also don't think we have the cognitive tools to understand such force. Humans recently evolved to make sense of their world, primarily to aid their survival, I don't think our brains have evolved to comprehend forces outside of our perceived reality

So you Actually Think That Force Is a God and must be Supernatural?

What we tag as "supernatural" are just aspects of the natural world that we don't have sufficient knowledge of.

If you Don't have Knowledge of it Why Believe in it?

Deicide:

If i Can Remember correctly this are The Views Deist Hold to?

So you Actually Think That Force Is a God and must be Supernatural?

If you Don't have Knowledge of it Why Believe in it?

Again with the labels. I honestly don't give a fuucck about any labels. I don't even know what deist means and I don't care to know. The most important thing is that you can extrapolate my views from the comment I made.

I don't think it's a god, going by the religious notion of god. I think it's not something earthly humans can comprehend, at least with the present state of our consciousness and level of cognition.

GrizzlyBear:


What we tag as "supernatural" are just aspects of the natural world that we don't have sufficient knowledge of.

I am sorry GrizzlyBear but this words make it obvious you have a different meaning of supernatural than the conventional way.

That a part of nature is unknown doesn't make it super, it means it's unknown.. so as your words up there goes what you term 'supernatural' can simply be tagged 'Natural' just not known yet. . . Yes?

Then i think the word 'Supernatural' is irrelevant in this regard since it will connote a context that makes that part of nature seem unnatural.

Summary of your post up there is that "Supernatural is the word to describe man's ignorance of nature"

.

johnydon22:


Yes it can - there may be more than just universe just as there are more than 1 galaxy. . . Nature can exist without any part just as you can exist without your hands.

It may be defined as the totality of the Physical plain.

Base on your Definition no physical plane No nature?

I think you need to find another defination cause it contradict the first point you made.. Or is there something am not getting

johnydon22:


I am sorry GrizzlyBear but this words make it obvious you have a different meaning of supernatural than the conventional way.

That a part of nature is unknown doesn't make it super, it means it's unknown.. so as your words up there goes what you term 'supernatural' can simply be tagged 'Natural' just not known yet. . . Yes?

Then i think the word 'Supernatural' is irrelevant in this regard since it will connote a context that makes that part of nature seem unnatural.

Summary of your post up there is that "Supernatural is the word to describe man's ignorance of nature"

I agree with the bolded.