Barristter07:
Whether Jesus is second person in God or not is not the issue here .please don't derail. The thread is strictly to know whether Jesus is the God of old testament or not .

If Jesus is the God of old testament, is it logical for the scripture to differentiate him from The God of Abraham ?

What does clarifying him as different from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at Act 3:13 tells us?

"And they saw the GOD of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness." Exod. 24:10.

"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." Jn. 5:37

"No man hath seen GOD at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Jn. 1:18

"No man hath seen GOD at any time..." 1 Jn. 4:12.

With these in mind, who do you think is the GOD of the OT?

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
I am calling back two scriptures highlighted in your last post. Please make proper application of Job 4:18 and still proper application of Psalms 2:12. I hope you can read those chapters entirely and make proper correction to your last post.
Finally dont derail from the main trust of the thread according to barrister07. I second him on that.

Do you have any better interpretation of Job 4:18 and Psa. 2:12? Show us please.

DoctorAlien,
I only have salient questions surrounding those verses highlighted. The questions will lead to perhaps better interpretation. I insist you read the chapters once again.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
I only have salient questions surrounding those verses highlighted. The questions will lead to perhaps better interpretation. I insist you read the chapters once again.

I have read the chapters. You may drop your questions.

DoctorAlien,
Job 4:18Do the words of Eliphaz reflect/represent God's mind or was Eliphaz viewpoint concerning the Angels is inline with God's viewpoint?
Psalms 2:12 Is Psalms chapter 2 prophectic? Who do the kings of the earth recognise as the Lord of the Old and New testament?

Barristter07:
Splinz



you are right a careless reading seems to suggest that Jesus was merely a servant of God that was glorified

[size=28]
But that's not the issue here [/size] . the issue here and which was prevented from that verse is this : that scripture differentiate Jesus from the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob also known as the God of old testament . which contradict your stance that Jesus is that same God of old testament . whereas Jesus was clearly separated from the God of Old testament in Act 3:13.




like I said earlier, why Jesus isn't just a servant is not an issue here.

The point is : Why should the Bible differentiate Jesus as separate Jesus from the God of Our Fathers , does that not contradict your stance ?

My dear, I think you're not reading nor understanding what you responded to.

I mean, it's so obvious. What you called "issues" are no issue at all! Please, go back and read. And this time, look up and start from where I talked of "The Real Beginning".

CANTICLES:




Jesus is the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ?

the thing tire me oo. Even me have a better understanding of the bible.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
Job 4:18Do the words of Eliphaz reflect/represent God's mind or was Eliphaz viewpoint concerning the Angels is inline with God's viewpoint?
Psalms 2:12 Is Psalms chapter 2 prophectic? Who do the kings of the earth recognise as the Lord of the Old and New testament?

Eliphaz's ideology of "good comes only to good people, and evil comes only to evil people" is not GOD's mind, even though you cannot find much fault with his words.

Eliphaz's viewpoint on the trustworthiness of angels seems to be buttressed in Gal. 1:8, where Paul curses any man or angel from heaven which preaches any other different gospel to the saints apart from the one he preached. Moreover, angels are fellow servants like us, are like brothers to us, and they bid us worship and trust GOD alone(Rev. 22:9).

Psalm 2 is prophetic. The other question is vague.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien: Another important fact is the harmony of the entire books of the Bible. We know that no part of the Bible contradicts another, "for GOD is not the author of confusion, but of peace..." 1 Cor. 14:33.
achorladey : My own question is, if Jesus was indeed (God of old testament and God of new testament), why is it difficult to acknowledge that he(Jesus) has a head? Why? After all, apostle Paul wrote both 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Corinthians 14 :33. Can he( apostle Paul) be confused as well? Please mind the word ''if''.

i can give you more than 50 passages in the bible that contradicts another. Get your fact right

DoctorAlien

DoctorAlien:


"And they saw the GOD of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness." Exod. 24:10.

"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." Jn. 5:37

"No man hath seen GOD at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Jn. 1:18

"No man hath seen GOD at any time..." 1 Jn. 4:12.

With these in mind, who do you think is the GOD of the OT?

Rather than address the point regarding the identity of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which was distinguished from Jesus Christ at Act 3:13 , you went ahead to bring up certain verses you think makes the Bible contradict itself . I don't know if you are a Christian or not .


The first scripture you quote up there help us identify the God of old testament, it says " God of isreal" , Now you will agree that "Isreal is another name for Jacob . at Act 3:13 the scripture made it clear that Jesus is not the God of Isreal ( Jacob)


" The God of Abraham and of Isaac [size=26] and of Jacob, [/size] the God of our forefathers, has glorified HIS servant Jesus. "




Clearly from the above , the God of Isreal (Jacob) been talked about in Exodus 24:10 is not Jesus . but his father ! Truth is no one can see him and live , clearly then the elders of isreal only saw "a vision of the true God" . as the Hebrew word chazah in Exodus 24:11 strongly indicate .


2372. chazah ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
behold, look, prophesy, provide, see
A primitive root; to gaze at; mentally, to perceive, contemplate (with pleasure); specifically, to have a vision of -- behold, look, prophesy, provide, see.


Who did Jesus identify as the God of Isreal ?

" Jesus answered: " If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, HE WHO YOU SAY IS YOUR GOD " John 8:54

He testified that his Father is their God!

Immorttal,
I don't need 50 contradictions or whatever from the scriptures. I am only an advocate of proper application of scriptures cited. Knowing numerous contradictions in the scriptures guarantees nothing. My own submission anyway.

The question still remains:

If no man has seen GOD at any time, who was the GOD of Israel which the Israelites saw?

DoctorAlien,
Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
What Eliphaz said concerning God is indeed not God's viewpoint. That the angels are regarded as ministers like us show God has indeed a measure of trust in calling us his ministers that is why through his son he handed numerous assignment to his loyal subject. I hope that correct the bad impression of saying God do not trust his ministers.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
What Eliphaz said concerning God is indeed not God's viewpoint. That the angels are regarded as ministers like us show God has indeed a measure of trust in calling us his ministers that is why through his son he handed numerous assignment to his loyal subject. I hope that correct the bad impression of saying God do not trust his ministers.

I never said GOD did not put any measure of trust in us, or in his angels. GOD has put a high degree of trust in us by committing His eternal oracles to us.

However, GOD does not command us to trust anybody other than Himself.

DoctorAlien,
Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. This supports your last statement in your last post. But still, when it comes to trust issues,there is a measure/variations. Married couple trust one another to a certain extent, employer/employees relationship require trust as well. Even the first century christians trust one another. That is why they could speak in one accord. We can indeed trust a fellow human to a certain degree as well. When we look up to them(fellow humans) as a means of salvation then hopes will be dashed.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. This supports your last statement in your last post. But still, when it comes to trust issues,there is a measure/variations. Married couple trust one another to a certain extent, employer/employees relationship require trust as well. Even the first century christians trust one another. That is why they could speak in one accord. We can indeed trust a fellow human to a certain degree as well. When we look up to them(fellow humans) as a means of salvation then hopes will be dashed.

Exactly.

DoctorAlien:
The question still remains:

If no man has seen GOD at any time, who was the GOD of Israel which the Israelites saw?

Brother, be mindful of this admonition: "Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels" (2 Timothy 2:23). This reminder becomes necessary, having seen that after all the well articulated explanations offered on this topic/issue, some people (preoccupied with preconceived ideas) are hell bent on keeping their traditions.

It is so unfortunate that these lot are still battling with the understanding of Jesus. For example, if they claimed that Acts 3:13 excludes or differentiate Jesus entirely as a different Person from the God that the patriarchs worshiped and served, of what sense will they make of 1 Cor. 10:4

I tell you without mincing words, they are hypocrites and ignoramuses whose sole interest is not learning and keeping the truth, but keeping of traditions—long held cherished beliefs. Like the scripture says, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!" (Mark 7:9). Indeed, these people have fine ways of rejecting the truths in order to keep what their organization taught them.

Here's my humble advice. Let them be, they're not worth it.

Splinz bro,

Thank you very much for that piece of advice. What you said is entirely true.

achorladey:
Immorttal,
I don't need 50 contradictions or whatever from the scriptures. I am only an advocate of proper application of scriptures cited. Knowing numerous contradictions in the scriptures guarantees nothing. My own submission anyway.

been trying hard to decipher your point. in a holy book purportedly inspired by God, obvious contradictions is the least one would expect but the bible contains way more contradictions which made me to question its god authenticity. if you have a lucid mind, you should be worried about it than shutting your mind to apparent flaws which a 5 year old can easily identify.

immorttal,
oga leave contradictions alone, the Bible wey I know, no dey for person wey go school ooooo, na those wey get the right heart attitude get am..... Na him make the person wey be the author of the bible be baba. No forget the Bible still be the most printed. No be for mouth ooooooo, na by wetin people believe inside wetin dey write for Bible. Oga leave contradiction matter for Matthias.

Splinz:


Brother, be mindful of this admonition: "Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels" (2 Timothy 2:23). This reminder becomes necessary, having seen that after all the well articulated explanations offered on this topic/issue, some people (preoccupied with preconceived ideas) are hell bent on keeping their traditions.

It is so unfortunate that these lot are still battling with the understanding of Jesus. For example, if they claimed that Acts 3:13 excludes or differentiate Jesus entirely as a different Person from the God that the patriarchs worshiped and served, of what sense will they make of 1 Cor. 10:4

I tell you without mincing words, they are hypocrites and ignoramuses whose sole interest is not learning and keeping the truth, but keeping of traditions—long held cherished beliefs. Like the scripture says, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!" (Mark 7:9). Indeed, these people have fine ways of rejecting the truths in order to keep what their organization taught them.

Here's my humble advice. Let them be, they're not worth it.

Splinz . have been busy lately, so I would have replied your post.


I didn't present a scripture from my head, did I? So why all this faulty and hasty conclusion, I present an Evidence from the scriptures which up till now you are yet to explain . it strongly point to the fact that the God of Isreal is not Jesus , it says Jesus is a servant of that one .

Interestingly, 1 Cor 10:4 support this.

" the apostle Paul wrote: “For they [the Israelites] used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ.” (1Co 10:4) On at least two occasions and in two different locations the Israelites received a miraculous provision of water from a rock-mass. (Ex 17:5-7; Nu 20:1-11) Therefore, the rock-mass as a source of water, in effect, followed them. The rock-mass itself was evidently a pictorial, or symbolic, type of Christ Jesus, who said to the Jews: “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.”—Joh 7:37

[i]
If Jesus means the Rock mass from which the Israelites DRINK through their Journey , who then is the God that instruct moses to strike the Rock Mass ?

@ John 8:54 , Jesus strongly tell who is the God of the Isrealites.


" Jesus answered: " If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, HE WHO YOU SAY IS YOUR GOD " John 8:54

He testified that his own Father is their God!

People need to know this truth!

The God of old testament is the same God of new testament.

He is one absolute God without wife, son or partner.

Paganism introduced into Christianity by Pauline Christian is the sole reason for the current confusion.
Invented idea like trinity, original sin and Jesus divinity are the problems.

Christianity was initially a pure monotheistic religion just like Judaism and Islam.

Auki:
The God of old testament is the same God of new testament.

He is one absolute God without wife, son or partner.

Paganism introduced into Christianity by Pauline Christian is the sole reason for the current confusion.
Invented idea like trinity, original sin and Jesus divinity are the problems.

Christianity was initially a pure monotheistic religion just like Judaism and Islam.

I know you muslims hate Paul.

But have you tried to research about your cherished islam? Do you know that islam as a whole is propaganda started by the Catholic church(with a motive) during the dark ages, and that Jesuits still control islam fully today?

DoctorAlien:


I know you muslims hate Paul.

But have you tried to research about your cherished islam? Do you know that islam as a whole is propaganda started by the Catholic church(with a motive) during the dark ages?

Muslim love humanity and hates paganism.

Is darkness equal to light?

Muslim worships God the creator not Jesus or Mary.

Muslim acknowledge Jesus as human being sent by God. Not as God, Son of God or partner to God.

Muslim acknowledge Mary as chaste and saintly woman but not a partner to God

Muslim acknowledge Noah, Abraham, Mosses, Job, David, Solomon, John, Muhammad, Lut, Jesus etc as prophets of God.

Muslim believe that all prophets central message is for humanity to worship the creator alone and avoid worship of creation like sun, stars, Jesus, Mary e.t.c.

Catholics inventing Islam is like saying falsehood inventing truth.

Auki:
Muslim love humanity and hates paganism.

Is darkness equal to light?

Muslim worships God the creator not Jesus or Mary.

Muslim acknowledge Jesus as human being sent by God. Not as God, Son of God or partner to God.

Muslim acknowledge Mary as chaste and saintly woman but not a partner to God

Muslim acknowledge Noah, Abraham, Mosses, Job, David, Solomon, John, Muhammad, Lut, Jesus etc as prophets of God.

Muslim believe that all prophets central message is for humanity to worship the creator alone and avoid worship of creation like sun, stars, Jesus, Mary e.t.c.

[s]Catholics inventing Islam is like saying falsehood inventing truth.[/s]

Was Mohammed a Muslim? Because I'm very sure he did not love humanity.

If Muslims acknowledge David, who did David call his Lord in Psa. 110:1?

DoctorAlien:


I know you muslims hate Paul.

But have you tried to research about your cherished islam? Do you know that islam as a whole is propaganda started by the Catholic church(with a motive) during the dark ages, and that Jesuits still control islam fully today?

even without paul.... there is still proof of Jesus being Yahweh.... wait ... did i say proof?? i mean .... fact!!

Auki:


Muslim love humanity and hates paganism.

no greater love for humanity than splitting someone's throat because he didn't believe your God

Muslim worships God the creator not Jesus or Mary.

Muslim acknowledge Jesus as human being sent by God. Not as God, Son of God or partner to God.

the reason is because you guys fashion a God that doesn't relate with humans.. a God that can't be reached... Jesus IS Yahweh... the creator.. through him all things were created

Muslim believe that all prophets central message is for humanity to worship the creator alone and avoid worship of creation like sun, stars, Jesus, Mary e.t.c.

wrong.... if Muslims believe so, then they should go and read the books of those prophets... Muhammad isn't the only prophet(IMO he's not a prophet at all).... but you guys ignore the testimonies and sayings of the rest.... why??

DoctorAlien:


[s]Was Mohammed a Muslim? Because I'm very sure he did not love humanity.[/s]

If Muslims acknowledge David, who did David call his Lord in Psa. 110:1?

All prophets of God, including Jesus worshiped God alone. Concept of Jesus divinity is invented. You will actual come to know the truth, here or hereafter.

May your creator guide you to the right path.

Auki:
The God of old testament is the same God of new testament.

Good!

He is one absolute God without wife,

Nobody said GOD has a wife.

son or partner.

Paganism introduced into Christianity by Pauline Christian is the sole reason for the current confusion.
Invented idea like trinity, original sin and Jesus divinity are the problems.

The trinity is not Biblical, neither is original sin. Now, who did David call his Lord in Psa. 110:1?

Christianity was initially a pure monotheistic religion just like Judaism and Islam.

Christianity was never a monotheistic religion. Read Micah 5:2; 1 Sam 4:8; Gen. 11:7; Gen. 1:26

Auki:
All prophets of God, including Jesus worshiped God alone. Concept of Jesus divinity is invented.

Who did David call his Lord in Psa. 110:1?

Wilgrea7

Wilgrea7:


)

even without paul.... there is still proof of Jesus being Yahweh.... wait ... did i say proof?? i mean .... fact!!

Jesus is NOT Yahweh neither is he the God of the Old Testament . see Act 3:13 for details