Cleverman2020:
Its a pity that people don't know how to preach these days...u started well and ended badly. Why did u mention people's name (sufi & shiites)? Pls any issue that deals with religion should be looked into by the nairaland admin to avoid problem. If the Sufis will enter hell fire, go and enter ur paradise and dnt take them along. Simple. U lack deep Islamic knowledge.

lexiconkabir:


"deviant sufis" suggests?

ever heard of "deviants amongst the muslims"?

its a pity most of you fail to comprehend.

lexiconkabir:


I'm certain imam Albaani replied to the hadeeth in question, in his book that talked about the legislated tawassul when I'm less busy, i will post it, insha Allaah.

blantyre:
Is not that there is nothing good to be derived from the Sheikh's words, after all what is quoted are verses from the Holy Quran but his explanations are laced with bias ofcourse. This man's name has come to be synonymous with wahabism and its numerous negative effects on the Umma. Acts of terrorism carried out in the name of Islam are attributed to the teachings of this man, hence the name wahabism, that violent strand of Islam financed by Saudi monarchs and followed by the ignorant ones to fight for the survival of the house of Sa'ud using religion and at the expense of the religion

lexiconkabir:
Salaam alaykum brothers and sisters, although this topic brings alot of controversies, it's still a must to know for those that really wants to worship Allaah.

So the topic is, "nullifiers of Islam" yani we want discuss the things that nullifies our Islam, things that takes you outta Islam.

Insha Allaah we are going to depend on the writing of shaykhul Islam Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab ibn salaymaan At-Tamimi – may Allaah be pleased with him

Note: My comments will be emboldened

The shaykh said;

(you have to) know that the nullifiers of Islam are Ten.

#Firstly: Shirk(associating partners) while worshipping Allaah the most high, Allaah the most high says;

"Verily, Allaah does not forgive that partners be associated with Him in worship (i.e. Shirk), but He forgives what is less than that to whom He wills.”

Now here we see that Allaah forgives all sins except shirk, the forgiveness being discussed here is that of the hereafter after you are dead, but if you seek forgiveness and worship Allaah alone before dying, then you will be forgiven, which is why tawheed is very important, once your deeds are checked and a single shirk cant be found therein, WAllaahi if Allaah wills(because Allaah says "li man yashaa''), he will forgive All your sins even if it fills the whole of this universe, so we have to study tawheed properly

And He says:

"Verily, the one who mixes partners in worship with Allaah (Shirk), then Paradise has been made forbidden for him and his final abode will be the Hellfire. And the wrongdoers will not have any helpers (in Hell).”

Then the shaykh continues and says;

"Part of that which falls into this(shirk) is performing sacrifices to someone other than Allaah, such as the person who offers a sacrifice to the Jinn or to(the dead in) a grave.

#secondly: Whoever sets intermediaries between himself and Allaah, calling on them, asking for intersession from them and putting their trust on them is a kaafir(disbeliever) by ijma'(consensus of the scholars)."

The deviant sufis and shi'as are guilty of this, some sufis call on their "mawlana" or "saints" to intercede for them to Allaah, this is an act of kufr, Allaah says "Call upon me and I will respond to you", so you don't need intermediaries, this is one of the ways the christians have erred, calling upon Jesus so he can ask "the father" a favor for them, the Shi'as on the other hand call on Ali, Hussayn all in the name of "tawassul"(seeking to near Allaah through some ways), but they are doing it in the wrong way

The shaykh continues;

#thirdly: If you don't take mushrikoon(people that associate partners with Allaah) as kuffar(plural of kaafir) or you have (a single) doubt about their disbelieve or you (even) believe that their way is correct, he has disbelieved.

A perfect example is some Muslims saying "we all worship the same God, both Muslims and Christians" la! Abadan! We don't worship the same God even though we all have the same Lord

Cc: Sissie

Sunni perspective
Views of Islamic Jurists
All jurists comprising Imami, Shafi'i ,
Maliki, Hanafi and Hanbali are unanimous on the permissibility of tawassul whether during the lifetime of the prophet or after his demise.[13]
[14] Sunni Muslims traditionally have believed that seeking intercession is lawful: Imam Baihaqi in Shu’ayb ul Iman endorsed the view of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, Imam Shafi in Imâm Shâfi`î, Dîwân, Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalani in Al-Isabah, Mullah Ali Qari in Sharh ash-Shifa, Imam Ibn Kathir in Ibn Kathir, Imam an-Nawawi in Majmu, Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti in Dur al-Manthur, Imam Qurtubi in Tafsir al-Qurtubi, Qadhi Shawkani in Tuhfa tul Dhakireen have explained and supported Tawassul.
[4] [unreliable source? ] Syrian Islamic scholars Salih al-Nu`man, Abu Sulayman Suhayl al-Zabibi, and Mustafa ibn Ahmad al-Hasan al-Shatti al-Hanbali al-Athari al-Dimashqi have similarly released Fatwas in support of the practice. [15]
Al-Suyuti in his book History of the Caliphs also reports Caliph Umar’s prayer for rain after the death of the Prophet and specifies that on that occasion ‘Umar was wearing the Prophet Muhammad’s mantel (al-burda), a detail confirming his tawassul through the Prophet at that occasion.[7]
Sunni ahadith
Few chosen Sunni ahadith in regard to tawassul:
“
Narrated Anas: Whenever there was drought, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to ask Allah for rain through Al'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib, saying, "O Allah! We used to request our Prophet to ask You for rain, and You would give us. Now we request the uncle of our Prophet to ask You for rain, so give us rain." And they would be given rain." [16][17]
”
“
Ibn Umar reported: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him) went out on the 'Id day, he ordered to carry a spear-and it was fixed in front of him, and he said prayer towards its (direction), and the people were behind him. And he did it in the journey, and that is the reason why the Amirs carried it. [18]
”
“
It's related from Abu Sadiq (ra) that Imam Ali (ra) said: "Three days after burying the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) The Araabi did come and did throw himself on the grave of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), he took the earth and threw it on his head. He said: "Ya Rasulallah! (Peace Be Upon Him) You did speak and we did hear, you learned from Allah and we did learn from you. Between those things which Allah did send you, is following: (4:64) I am the one, which is a sinner and now I did came to you, so that you may ask for me." After that a call from the grave did came: "Theres no doubt, you are forgiven!" [19][20]
”
“
Imam Qurtubi related the tradition through Ibn ‘Abbas: The Jews of Khaybar were often at war with the Ghatafan (tribe). When they confronted each other (in battle) the Jews were defeated. They attacked again, offering this prayer, “(O Lord,) we beg You through the mediation of the Unlettered Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) about whom You have promised us that you will send him to us at the end of time. Please help us against them.” Ibn ‘Abbas adds: whenever they faced the enemy, they offered this prayer and defeated the Ghatafan (tribe). But when the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) was sent, they denied (him). So Allah the Exalted revealed the verse: “And before that they themselves had (prayed) for victory (through the mediation of the last Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and the Book revealed to him) over the disbelievers,” that is, through your mediation, O Muhammad. [21][22]
”
“
It was narrated from 'Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said: "Pray to Allah to heal me." He said: "If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you." He said: "Supplicate." So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak'ah, and to say this supplication: "Allahumma lnni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya (O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)". [23][24][25]
”
Shia perspective
Seeking Intercession (tawassul) is accepted and even advised in Shi'a Islam . Shia Scholars refer to Quranic verses such as 5:3 , 12:97 and 12:98 and justify its permissibility. During the tawassul prayer Shia Muslims call on the names of Muhammad and the Ahl al-Bayt and use them as their intercessors/intermediaries to God.
[26] Shias always pray to and only to Allah, but as other Muslims, they accept tawassul as a means of seeking intercession.
To be continued

lexiconkabir:
Salaam alaykum brothers and sisters, although this topic brings alot of controversies, it's still a must to know for those that really wants to worship Allaah.

So the topic is, "nullifiers of Islam" yani we want discuss the things that nullifies our Islam, things that takes you outta Islam.

Insha Allaah we are going to depend on the writing of shaykhul Islam Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab ibn salaymaan At-Tamimi – may Allaah be pleased with him

Note: My comments will be emboldened

The shaykh said;

(you have to) know that the nullifiers of Islam are Ten.

#Firstly: Shirk(associating partners) while worshipping Allaah the most high, Allaah the most high says;

"Verily, Allaah does not forgive that partners be associated with Him in worship (i.e. Shirk), but He forgives what is less than that to whom He wills.”

Now here we see that Allaah forgives all sins except shirk, the forgiveness being discussed here is that of the hereafter after you are dead, but if you seek forgiveness and worship Allaah alone before dying, then you will be forgiven, which is why tawheed is very important, once your deeds are checked and a single shirk cant be found therein, WAllaahi if Allaah wills(because Allaah says "li man yashaa''), he will forgive All your sins even if it fills the whole of this universe, so we have to study tawheed properly

And He says:

"Verily, the one who mixes partners in worship with Allaah (Shirk), then Paradise has been made forbidden for him and his final abode will be the Hellfire. And the wrongdoers will not have any helpers (in Hell).”

Then the shaykh continues and says;

"Part of that which falls into this(shirk) is performing sacrifices to someone other than Allaah, such as the person who offers a sacrifice to the Jinn or to(the dead in) a grave.

#secondly: Whoever sets intermediaries between himself and Allaah, calling on them, asking for intersession from them and putting their trust on them is a kaafir(disbeliever) by ijma'(consensus of the scholars)."

The deviant sufis and shi'as are guilty of this, some sufis call on their "mawlana" or "saints" to intercede for them to Allaah, this is an act of kufr, Allaah says "Call upon me and I will respond to you", so you don't need intermediaries, this is one of the ways the christians have erred, calling upon Jesus so he can ask "the father" a favor for them, the Shi'as on the other hand call on Ali, Hussayn all in the name of "tawassul"(seeking to near Allaah through some ways), but they are doing it in the wrong way

The shaykh continues;

#thirdly: If you don't take mushrikoon(people that associate partners with Allaah) as kuffar(plural of kaafir) or you have (a single) doubt about their disbelieve or you (even) believe that their way is correct, he has disbelieved.

A perfect example is some Muslims saying "we all worship the same God, both Muslims and Christians" la! Abadan! We don't worship the same God even though we all have the same Lord

Cc: Sissie

To be continued

shawl:


Yes, there are intercessors my brother.



The waseela of the prophet subsists when he is in this world, in al barzakh, and in the hereafter, sallAllahu alayhi wasallam.

It comes in the Holy Qur'an:

And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.
Surat Al-'Anbya' (21:107)

Note: 'aalameen (more than two worlds) instead of 'aalamayn (two worlds) is used in this ayat. Thus the prophet, sallAllahu alayhi wasallam, has been a mercy on to us in the world that we were before creation, in this world and in the hereafter. And since this world is still in existence, then his being a mercy from Allahu ta'ala on to us continues to subsist.

From hadith:

Translation: Imam Tabrani has narrated an incident that a person repeatedly visited Uthman bin Affan (ra) concerning something he needed but Uthman paid no attention to him. The man went to Uthman bin Hunaif haneef (ra), the same sahaba who witnessed the first event when the prophet, sallAllahu alayhi wasallam, was alive in this world and complained to him about the matter- [Note: this was after the death of the Prophet and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar ] so Uthman bin Hunaif said : “Go to the place of Wudu, then come to the Masjid, perform two Rak'ats and then say : “O Allah!, I ask you and turn to you through our
Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I turn through you to my lord, that He fulfil my need” and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman] So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him), and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him ...(till the end of hadith)

References:

Imam al-Mundhiri (rah) brought this under "SALAT AL HAJAH" and said: Imam Tabarani after narrating it said "THIS HADITH IS SAHIH" [At-Targheeb wa Tarheeb, Page No. 129 in the chapter of Salaat al Hajah]

Imam Tabrani Book : Ma'jam As Sagheer Volume : 1 Page : 306-307 Hadith number : 508
Note: Imam Tabrani, after narrating the hadith usually doesn't say anything but in this case he specifically says it is "Sahih"
Imam Tabrani Book : Ma'jam Al Kabeer Volume : 9 page : 17-19 Hadith number : 8311

Imam al-Haythami (rah) brought this under "SALAT AL HAJAH" also accepted the authentication of Imam Tabrani in his Majma az Zawaid Volume No. 2, Hadith # 3668

Imam Bayhaqi Book : Dalail An nubuwwah Volume : 6 Page : 167-168
Imam Taqi ud Din Subki brought this under the chapter: "AFTER PASSING AWAY OF PROPHET" and also quotes Imam Bayhaqi in the end, Book : Shia As Siqam Volume : 1 Page : 370-372

Ibn Taymiyyah declared it "SAHIH" in his Qa'ida al Jaleela fit Tawassul wal Waseela (Page No. 156)

Empiree:
@lexicon, do you agree that Waseela (i:e Tawasul) of the prophet(saw) subsists after he passed?.

Sufisunni:
Sunni perspective
Views of Islamic Jurists
All jurists comprising Imami, Shafi'i ,
Maliki, Hanafi and Hanbali are unanimous on the permissibility of tawassul whether during the lifetime of the prophet or after his demise.[13]
[14] Sunni Muslims traditionally have believed that seeking intercession is lawful: Imam Baihaqi in Shu’ayb ul Iman endorsed the view of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, Imam Shafi in Imâm Shâfi`î, Dîwân, Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalani in Al-Isabah, Mullah Ali Qari in Sharh ash-Shifa, Imam Ibn Kathir in Ibn Kathir, Imam an-Nawawi in Majmu, Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti in Dur al-Manthur, Imam Qurtubi in Tafsir al-Qurtubi, Qadhi Shawkani in Tuhfa tul Dhakireen have explained and supported Tawassul.
[4] [unreliable source? ] Syrian Islamic scholars Salih al-Nu`man, Abu Sulayman Suhayl al-Zabibi, and Mustafa ibn Ahmad al-Hasan al-Shatti al-Hanbali al-Athari al-Dimashqi have similarly released Fatwas in support of the practice. [15]
Al-Suyuti in his book History of the Caliphs also reports Caliph Umar’s prayer for rain after the death of the Prophet and specifies that on that occasion ‘Umar was wearing the Prophet Muhammad’s mantel (al-burda), a detail confirming his tawassul through the Prophet at that occasion.[7]
Sunni ahadith
Few chosen Sunni ahadith in regard to tawassul:
“
Narrated Anas: Whenever there was drought, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to ask Allah for rain through Al'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib, saying, "O Allah! We used to request our Prophet to ask You for rain, and You would give us. Now we request the uncle of our Prophet to ask You for rain, so give us rain." And they would be given rain." [16][17]
”
“
Ibn Umar reported: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him) went out on the 'Id day, he ordered to carry a spear-and it was fixed in front of him, and he said prayer towards its (direction), and the people were behind him. And he did it in the journey, and that is the reason why the Amirs carried it. [18]
”
“
It's related from Abu Sadiq (ra) that Imam Ali (ra) said: "Three days after burying the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) The Araabi did come and did throw himself on the grave of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), he took the earth and threw it on his head. He said: "Ya Rasulallah! (Peace Be Upon Him) You did speak and we did hear, you learned from Allah and we did learn from you. Between those things which Allah did send you, is following: (4:64) I am the one, which is a sinner and now I did came to you, so that you may ask for me." After that a call from the grave did came: "Theres no doubt, you are forgiven!" [19][20]
”
“
Imam Qurtubi related the tradition through Ibn ‘Abbas: The Jews of Khaybar were often at war with the Ghatafan (tribe). When they confronted each other (in battle) the Jews were defeated. They attacked again, offering this prayer, “(O Lord,) we beg You through the mediation of the Unlettered Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) about whom You have promised us that you will send him to us at the end of time. Please help us against them.” Ibn ‘Abbas adds: whenever they faced the enemy, they offered this prayer and defeated the Ghatafan (tribe). But when the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) was sent, they denied (him). So Allah the Exalted revealed the verse: “And before that they themselves had (prayed) for victory (through the mediation of the last Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and the Book revealed to him) over the disbelievers,” that is, through your mediation, O Muhammad. [21][22]
”
“
It was narrated from 'Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said: "Pray to Allah to heal me." He said: "If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you." He said: "Supplicate." So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak'ah, and to say this supplication: "Allahumma lnni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya (O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me)". [23][24][25]
”
Shia perspective
Seeking Intercession (tawassul) is accepted and even advised in Shi'a Islam . Shia Scholars refer to Quranic verses such as 5:3 , 12:97 and 12:98 and justify its permissibility. During the tawassul prayer Shia Muslims call on the names of Muhammad and the Ahl al-Bayt and use them as their intercessors/intermediaries to God.
[26] Shias always pray to and only to Allah, but as other Muslims, they accept tawassul as a means of seeking intercession. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawassul

Sufisunni:
U r so obssesed with Sufis and Shias.! Stop playing with people's IQs here pls. U r very good at connical coining words to deceive fleece ones here. Jst imagine 'deviant sufis' what about "deviant wahhabis?" or is it coz u r a wahhabi apologist that u dont see anything wrong with wahhabism?

lexiconkabir:


no waseela from him as he is right now in the state of barzakh, so he cant respond to you, but certainly we will get waseela from him on jugdment day, that is the station Allaah promised him(sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

shawl:


And it is your words against the hadith too.

The Hadith states: It was narrated from 'Uthman bin Hunaif that a blind man came to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said: "Pray to Allah to heal me." He said: "If you wish to store your reward for the Hereafter, that is better, or if you wish, I will supplicate for you." He said: "Supplicate." So he told him to perform ablution and do it well, to pray two Rak'ah, and to say this supplication: "Allahumma lnni as'aluka wa atawajjahu ilaika bimuhammadin nabiyyir-rahma. Ya Muhammadu inni qad tawajjahtu bika ila rabbi fi hajati hadhihi lituqda. Allahumma fashaffi’hu fiya (O Allah, I ask of You and I turn my face towards You by virtue of the intercession of Muhammad the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord by virtue of your intercession concerning this need of mine so that it may be met. O Allah,
accept his intercession concerning me)".

Empiree:
Certainly. But why do you ignore ALL glaring ahadith in this regard?.[s]How about sending Salams on him and his soul restores and he responds? (hadith)[/s].

lexiconkabir:


where did i ignore the ahadeeth that talked about the station Allaah promised the prophet(on the day of jugdement)??!!

Empiree:
Not this. Never mind.



Anyways, read this.


Myth 10: Sheikh Abdul Wahhab made takfeer of those who made tawassul by the righteous


Taken from Sayyid Muhammad bin 'Alawi al-Maliki's excellent book "Mafahim Yajib An Tusahhah (Notions that Must be Corrected)", pg. 141:

Shaykh Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab said: "Sulayman bin Sahim has fabricated on me statements which I never said, nor have they ever came to my mind. and from amongst it: that I do takfir of those who perform Tawassul by the righteous, and that I do takfir of [al-Imam] al-Busayri because he said: "O most gracious of the creation", and that I burn Dala'il al-Khayrat.

"And my reply to this issue: Glory be to Allah! This is awful slander!" ["Rasa'il al-Shaykh Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab", the eleventh epistle, pg. 64.]


On the preceding page, he expresses his opinion on Tawassul by saying: "The correct position according to us is the statement of the majority, that is it is makruh. Therefore, we do not detest those who perform it, and there is no detestation with regards to the issues of ijtihad. However, we do detest those who invoke the created objects in a much more serious manner than he who calls upon Allah but really intends by that the grave [of a righteous person], praying near the shrine of Shaykh 'Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani or his likes and requests therein protection from sorrow and assistance in ones yearnings and the giving of sustenance. So where is [the seriousness of] this act in comparison to he who calls upon Allah, bearing their religion to Him in sincerity, not calling upon anyone save Allah, but he says in his Du'a: I ask you by your Prophet or by the Messengers or by your righteous slaves, or he goes to a known grave [of a saint] and prays therein, but does not call upon anyone save Allah, bearing their religion to Him in sincerity..."

[Fatawa al-Shaykh Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab, the third section pg. 68, printed by The University of Muhammad bin Sa'ud during Shaykh Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab week]


Anyways, this subject never interest me one bit. I came across it many times.

lexiconkabir:


The correct legislated Tawassul is of three types as stated by Al-albaani;

1. Tawassul by means of the Names of Allaah, the Blessed and the Most High, and His Attributes.

2. Tawassul by means of a righteous action which the perso who is supplicating has done.

3. Tawassul by means of the supplication made by a righteous man.

Empiree:
^
As I said, this is not a topic that interests me at this time. I'm diverted at something else for now. Maybe I may come around to contribute further.

One thing however is clear, the issue of tawasul is NOT aqeeda but figh. This is what is agreed upon. It's later generation i:e 20th century scholars from that region that portrayed it matter of aqeeda and call people mushrik. Ibn wahabi stance was that it's figh masalah.

The three steps of tawasul you posted earlier, no one denies that but it comes with question marks i:e using ones good deeds. This is where sufis stepped in. There is more to this.

I also noticed that you seem to reject virtues of the person of nabi in dua is undesirable. Humm....this is misguidance. The presence of nabi (p) amongst his sahaba was virtuous and will continue to function. This is what is coined in yoruba as "ola anobi". There is difference BTW saying Ola anobi and calling on him.

lexiconkabir:


if its not matter of aqeedah then what? isn't dua a form of worship?



you can't use the virtuousness of the prophet at this moment because he is not with us, there is no daleel for that.


which of his sahabas used his "ola" after his death? the salafs? who?

Empiree:
lol...'ola'. You expect Arab person to say that?. What's is ola?. What's is virtues?. Isn't same thing?.

See, you are entering area beyond what you do not comprehend. The two men above quoted related ahadith regarding this. And there are still some that I can quote. The famous one is sending Salawat on the prophet. What do u think u are doing when you send daroo on him?. And what happens after that? . Didn't hadith tells you Allah restores his soul and he sends back salam to u?. I said this earlier but you might missed it.

Also you saying its worship is off. You might need to check with scholars. Majority say it's figh issue not aqeeda including ibn wahab. This is why they accused you people of not understanding stuff. I'm not really interested in this now. ..that's why I wont detail for now. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG SAYING OLA ANOBI (BY THE VIRTUES OF NABI).

The least you can do is to say those ahadith are 'daef'. You gonna have hardtime to prove that.

bankyman:
The write up is very nice and thought provoking... But OP kindly desist from name calling and sorts... please pass the message and that should do. Like in the sermon I listened to today, Muslims have a whole lot in common to share and be happy with rather than disagree over miniature ones. Some of the messages in the write up indicate things that may lead us out of Islam and walk one to Jahanama but make reference to the point and let those who it affects change their heart.... As nice as the write-up it could lead to war of words and if anyone should say something offensive to Allah, OP kindly exercise caution.

Jazak' Allahu Khaeran

lexiconkabir:

Uthman bin haneef

ShiaMuslim:
Seun, please be mindful of the topics from the Islam section that go to the front page. do not let them abuse your forum to promote Wahhabism. the so called Sheikh, Ibn Abdul Wahab is the terrorist on whose deviant and parochial teachings he formed the bloodsucking Wahhabi cult. i am not saying this because I am Shia and i am a "lesser Muslim" to his blind eyes. both his father and brother disagreed to his teachings and they authored literature to refute his deviant claims. the OP is treating a divisive topic (tawassul/intercession) and judging it with his Wahhabi lenses through Ibn Abdul Wahab, as if this ancient terrorist represents Islam and all Muslims. he is in that line calling other Muslims that subscribe to differing ideologies to his ugly names. i believe that is unfair. and taking such topic to the fp is promoting division and hatred among Muslims, a motion of takfirism upon which Wahhabism was founded. Islamic topic ought to explore the beauty of Islam and the divine virtues as taught by the Prophet, his Ahlul-Bayt and the pious among Sahaba. not some deviant topic by a deviant cultist of the Wahhabi blood sucking cult.

lexiconkabir:


ok i dont think you read me right on some things, but i don't think I'm interested in discussing much tho, too too busy for all that.

the thread is not even about tawassul.

lexiconkabir:

(i)The weakness of the memory of the one who is alone in reporting it;
(ii)and the conflicting reports from him and;
(iii)his contradicting those reliable narrators who do not mention it in the hadeeth.

lexiconkabir:

so he will respond to you today while he is no more? issoryt.

lexiconkabir:

so if one were to say after his death: "Then accept him as a supplicant for me" then it would be a meaningless saying.