foladara777:

But when Onesimus escaped and came to him, he didn't tell him that he had a right not to be enslaved, instead, he first returned him back to his master. What if the master had decided he would not grant onesimus freedom?? Then he would have been a slave for the rest of his life... Paul didn't forbid slavery but he remembered to tell Christians that women should not function in church and should always cover their heads... Christianity is a joke

4everGod:


Sharrap. Onesimus ran to Paul and Paul kept him and got him saved. However he still was legally bound ti Philemon so Paul also got Philemon saved before now asking Onesimus to return to Philemon and charged Philemon to see him as a free man and this demand by Paul was meant to make Philemon LEGALLY set Onesimus free from slavery which was why Paul said IF YOU SAY YOU ARE MY PARTNER THEN DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT.

Never ever try to twist scripture to your own gain.

chrmn1:
Got to give it to you here Forever God. You explained this more succinctly than I ever could

chrmn1:


Please read these passages carefully:

Philemon 1:8-19:

"That is why I am boldly asking a favor of you. I could demand it in the name of Christ because it is the right thing for you to do. 9 But because of our love, I prefer simply to ask you. Consider this as a request from me—Paul, an old man and now also a prisoner for the sake of Christ Jesus.[b]
10 I appeal to you to show kindness to my child, Onesimus. I became his father in the faith while here in prison. 11 Onesimus[c] hasn’t been of much use to you in the past, but now he is very useful to both of us. 12 I am sending him back to you, and with him comes my own heart.

13 I wanted to keep him here with me while I am in these chains for preaching the Good News, and he would have helped me on your behalf. 14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced. 15 It seems you lost Onesimus for a little while so that you could have him back forever. 16 He is no longer like a slave to you. He is more than a slave, for he is a beloved brother, especially to me. Now he will mean much more to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord.

17 So if you consider me your partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18 If he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, PAUL, WRITE THIS WITH MY OWN HAND: I WILL REPAY IT. AND I WON’T MENTION THAT YOU OWE ME YOUR VERY SOUL!"

Note the bolded part, he says he could have made a demand as it was the right thing for him to do but preferred to go the diplomatic way which was astutely brilliant on the part of Paul. He knew how difficult humans can be and that if he made a demand, there might have been a clash of egos.

Please read patiently. Thanks.

4everGod:


Sharrap. Onesimus ran to Paul and Paul kept him and got him saved. However he still was legally bound ti Philemon so Paul also got Philemon saved before now asking Onesimus to return to Philemon and charged Philemon to see him as a free man and this demand by Paul was meant to make Philemon LEGALLY set Onesimus free from slavery which was why Paul said IF YOU SAY YOU ARE MY PARTNER THEN DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT.

Never ever try to twist scripture to your own gain.

randomperson:

So tell me why God failed to forbid slavery?? Was it not important or did he forget?

Seun:
chrmn1: Would it have been morally acceptable for the Americans to take Iraqis as slaves after defeating their leader? If not, why not?

@hopefulLandlord: hope they listen to you.

chrmn1:
For an answer to your question see 4everGod's response in page 5. That's the last post on page 5. Additionally, I'd say it's a false assumption to say that God didn't forbid slavery. Look up 1 Timothy 1:9-10. It reads: "For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching"

chrmn1:
Okay. It would be wrong in my opinion. The reason is that there are more organised systems and UN regulations, signed pacts, etc that guide the behaviour of nations today unlike in those days. Then it was basically the survival of the fittest. So if a nation was stronger than its rivals it would simply overthrow and enslave them. At the time, it might not have been a wrong thing to do because it was a time of conquest and if a nation overpowered another nation, the victim nation would naturally plot a comeback to salvage their families that had been taken as spoils of war and return their Kingdom and economy back to normalcy. So if the victim nation were not placed in a subdued position that would fight back. It's quite different today.

Kalatium:
Do you know that Christianity is a religion of peace if you try this in the other religion you can be killed.

randomperson:

That was many years later... Why didn't he do it earlier?? He had the time to forbid eating shell fish

randomperson:

It is wrong now and it was wrong at that time... God should have known that then and should have told the humans... Why did men have to arrive at that conclusion themselves? What is God's duty if me can't tell if us what's wrong as at when due

JuicyLucy:


Sounds like what Bush said about the African Americans wanting reparations for their ancestors being enslaved. He said it was legal at the time so therefore no crime was committed. Man is evil and man made God in his image.

chrmn1:
You really did not need to use another monkier but it's okay.
Now if you scan through the old testament from beginning to end, you will never find any portion where it was stated that God discouraged the Israelites from the act of divorce. But in the NT, Jesus' testimony clearly demonstrates that that conversation had been ongoing between God and the Jews.
Even Jesus said there were a lot of His deeds that were not recorded. That if they were all recorded, we'd struggle to put them all together. That said, in that time, there was constant fighting amongst nations and if a nation did not fight back they would be killed and enslaved.
Point I'm making is that not every thing God permitted the Israelites to do that He necessarily sanctioned. Do you know that at the time when God gave the nation a king in the person of Saul, that was not His perfect will for them at the time but again, He permitted them to go ahead because of their obstinate hearts (Read 1 Samuel chapter eight).

If you read the passage in 1 Timothy 1 carefully, Paul was warning against certain men who wanted to teach the law (old covenant) . Paul made a remarkable statement that the law was not made for the righteous but the unlawful implying that in the new dispensation, it was not appropriate trying to teach the law since Jesus had made the people righteous and had introduced a new order. This clearly shows that the idea of slave trade (mentioned as one of the unlawful acts) being an unsound practice was not a new concept.

randomperson:

My other account was banned, u should have been able to infer that..
And your argument that God merely permitted slavery holds no water. Abraham was ready to murder his only son for God he would have readily released his slaves for God but God never told him to stop buying and owning slaves
Genesis 12:5 Abram took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, and all the wealth and all the slaves they had acquired in Haran, and they started out for the land of Canaan.
God didn't permit the eating of shellfish or pork. He didn't consider freewill at that time but you are claiming it's because of freewill that he couldn't forbid slavery. In fact, if a person at that time was not comfortable with slavery, God made it okay by saying they could purchase slaves. It's dishonest to use the freewill argument when that didn't stop God from forbidding all the small unimportant things he forbade
And the idea that God permits something because of the people obstinate hearts is contrary to the omnipotence of God... It's simply a case of punishing them if they don't comply. The way he did for other sins.
And that bible verse u quoted referred to kidnappers not slave owners. I checked the good news and amplified versions. Even the KJV says man stealers...
I thought u were a Christian why the lies??

chrmn1:


Ouch! A ban? Didn’t see any post of yours that would warrant a ban. Well my bad, that’s the effect of not being able to read all posts in a thread. Do you realize that when God appeared to Abraham, he and his household were idol worshippers? (Joshua 24:2). Let me explain something to you. Did you know that God called Abraham initially when he was living in Mesopotamia even before he came to Haaran (Acts 7:1-5). Do you realize that God had just called an idol worshipper and the process involved to give him a new orientation was always going to be gradual and He had only barely started dealing with Abraham when the bible records that Abraham had slaves?
I’m not saying because of freewill God could not forbid slavery. He normally would give an instruction but its left for the people to obey or disobey. That’s were freewill comes in. That passage in 1 Tim 1:8-10 shows that it was not exactly lawful as per God’s standards but He would still work with them because their race would produce the Messiah. I already explained previously the reasoning behind taking of captives in war situations
Now the Jews were wonderful people. They knew how to sieve God’s instructions and adhere to the ones that were favourable to them whilst ignoring the ones that they didn’t like. Jesus scolded them time and again for this attitude. Remember when He said to them, ‘you guys like to pay your tithe and all but you leave out the basics of your faith – truth and justice’ (paraphrased). So non compliance with instruction was hardly any proof that the instruction was not there originally. As I showed you yesterday, there were instances where a slave would rather be one than be freed so in such a situation should He override the will of the slave?
Again I’d say if your definition of ‘God can do all things’ includes doing things outside His character then I’d agree with you that He cannot do all things.
Now you say I told a lie. You quoted from NLT in your original post and I did same and you call me a liar? I did not give you chrmn1 version, I gave you NLT. Well, look up the link below; it shows a list of translations of the particular word

http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/1-10.htm

Additionally, please look at this link below; which translates the words in that verse from the original greek, the word is enslavers:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/1-10.htm

PDBonline:
If I may ask, why do you think the Bible should condemn slavery?

You didn't quote from 1 Corinthians 7:21-23:

"21Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings"

Your attitude in whatever situation you find yourself matters. I know it's difficult for some people to get rid of the victim mentality but the Bible teaches you to stay free in your mind and attitude even if you are a slave.
In the old Testament also, we read the story of a slave who went on to become the ruler of the then Super Power Egypt because he had freedom in his disposition to life and retained his inner identity with God.

The society is yet to be free of slavery even among the free but if you understand the Bible stand on the topic, you current situation will not affect your mindset and you will be able to recognize opportunity for freedom.

EyeHateGod:
@op them don Give you the answer you seek? Watin i miss??
https://www.nairaland.com/3376200/background-story-slavery-bad-hebrews

MrPresident1:
The reason is because slavery is forever. When Jesus comes, there will still be slavery.

randomperson:

You, either you're a troll or you're under the influence of something..

MrPresident1:


Under the influence of The Holy Spirit.

See pikin wen dem born yesterday dey talk nonsense. Irreverent children, abi you nor just join NL come wan begin abuse your ancestors?

foladara777:
Am just going to post a few verses of the scriptures here showing the position of God towards slavery.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Now, u would think the new testament would forbid slavery but no, it doesn't:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

It's greatly disturbing that a supposedly good god who had the time to ban shellfish and the wearing of clothes off different materials didn't forbid one of the worst acts of man's inhumanity to man... What do you think??

akintom:


This another historical proof of the origin of God. The God of the Abrahamic religions, is simply of the fabric and fashion of olodumare (God or almighty ) of the Yoruba traditional religion.

It's pitiable, that the tribal, vengeful, horrific, mean, genocidal, misogynistic and chauvinistic god of the Jews, is what is been romanced by most Nigerians.

Approval of slavery, is the worst bubble bursting, of this imaginary monster appellated as god.

randomperson:

I think the bible should condemn slavery because it's barbaric, wicked and inhumane... U don't think the bible should condemn slavery??
And what point are u trying to prove by saying freedom of the mind?? Remember, that in spite of all Joseph did for Potiphar, he was still thrown in prison for the unsubstantiated claims of a promiscuous wife... That's slavery for u, no right to fair hearing
I would like to know, do you think slavery is bad?? If it is why didn't God or Jesus forbid it?? How can u reconcile this blatant omission with the fact that God remembered to forbid eating shellfish, homosexuality e.t.c. Are these ones worse than slavery.
FYI, there's a new thread on an other issue u might be interested in: https://www.nairaland.com/3511203/did-god-accept-human-being#51796001

PDBonline:


You got it wrong dear. Go to any prison today and you will find people in there who are not slaves.
When people say "slavery" their minds go to the display of wickedness from one man to the other. These things are present between husbands and wives, between parents and children, between employers and employees etc.
There are slaves who were treated do well by there masters that they rejected freedom when it was offered them. So your argument is against evil human-to-human behaviour, not against slavery- which is just another form of relationship.

However, the Bible indicates that freedom is better. For example, God commanded years of Jubilee where every slaves MUST be freed except he/she personally decides otherwise.(The God of the Bible doesn't violate people's will).

Also, as I mentioned earlier, 1 Corinthians 7:21-23 shows that if you are not free, have freedom in your heart (that's a clear path to mental health) but if you can be freed, use the opportunity.
What else do you want the Bible to say on the topic? Approve what YOU think is correct? It doesn't work that way! We just have to swallow our pride and walk in humility. You can't get it wrong obeying the Bible so far you understand it

4everGod:


i suggest you go through the thread "intelligently". God did not approve of slavery! End of story

PDBonline:
People who think the Bible should outrightly condemn slavery while supporting capitalism are not consistent in their thoughts.

Why should some people own land? Did they create it? Is it just and fair that some claim ownership of any resources? And why should some people do all the work while just some few share the bulk of the profit? Do you think if workers have a true say, they will grant signature to the so called employment contracts? Who can really pay for the worth of another human's time?

I'm just saying that there are things that are only permissible and reasonable just for now. What is most important is how to live under whatever condition for your best result. What will warrant a slave to be beaten and treated harshly? People can behave wrongly- master and slave alike and there will be consequences. But the Bible places emphasis on how to behave with respect and love and how to accept freedom when you have the opportunity, which the Op did not consider.