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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy (42442 Views)
Are Yoruba Changing Bight Of Benin To Bight Of Oyo? Or Was It Truly Bight Of Oyo / How The bight Of Benin Was Named After The Benin Empire / Comparing Slave Numbers from Bight of Benin and Bight of Biafra from 1400 - 1865 (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 12:36am On Mar 16, 2017 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox93okwUja4 "Makandal presented this choreographed dance at Miller Theater at Columbia University on February 14, 1992. Because it was Valentine's Day, the Troupe featured the Vodou spirit Èzili Freda Dawome (representing sweet love) as the program's theme. The dance ibo stood outside the theme. Haitians remember the Ibo ancestors (the Igbo of eastern Nigeria) as a proud people who resisted slavery by taking their own lives. The Ibo believed that the soul, freed from its body, would transmigrate back to the homeland. In some parts of Haiti, Vodou devotees call on the Ibo spirits during funeral rites. On stage, the dance represents resistance. Musicians: Standing from left, Manbo Lucienne (special guest, vocals), Tom Mitchell (sax), Paul Newman (bell), Avin Valdemar (trumpet), Alberto Plummer (trumpet), Tim Newman (trombone); seated at drums from left, Jean Alphonse (third drum), Steve Deats (second drum), Frisner Augustin (lead drum). Dancers: Smith Destin, Nicole Attaway, Sandy St. Cyr, Rose Deats, Mari Da Silva, Annette Johnson" 3 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 12:42am On Mar 16, 2017 |
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Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 12:44am On Mar 16, 2017 |
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Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 12:45am On Mar 16, 2017 |
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Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by 9jakool: 12:55am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu:Benin-Togo having high frequency in Nigeria is not a result of intermixing, because if that was the case it would be consistent and still be occurring till today and all the cultures in the region would be very very similar. But that's not the case. There are over a dozen language branches and hundreds of distinct ethnic groups in the region. A better theory is that since most of the languages and cultures in West Africa had a common ancestor, it's not too strange to see that overlap. The overlap in DNA, would be of the shared origin, rather than the exchange of DNA through intermixing. It's important to raise suspicion and question the test's accuracy. Ancestry DNA also have the disclaimer that they are aware that their DNA testing isn't always going to be accurate which is why they give ranges as well. They also update their data frequently which may cause in one's percentages to fluctuate. I found this Liberian man who got an overwhelmingly high "Ghana/Ivory Coast" percentage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnZraslnNK8 It's interesting because I found an Igbo man with a very high "Nigeria" marker. In the second video, he tested his maternal ethnicity, only to be told he was Hausa, Fulani and Tikar. Lol This is why I think it's good to question the accuracy of some of these geneology companies. Geneology has lead the way in the 21st century, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aXVjTGsdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_dAfxRy6no&list=PLm2A_Jdbg98ipInq4VHsTAwORd0OWgF87 |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by 9jakool: 1:09am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: That would mean that Gur speakers would be half Mali and half Akan or Gbe which I don't by. Most West Africans look alike, so the admixture is not that strange. Regardless, the admixture is archaic for groups in Eastern Nigeria to still have traces of Benin/Togo. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 1:12am On Mar 16, 2017 |
9jakool: That was my argument, although the original comment was pertaining to the groupings of the ancestral populations and how the company could easily make a eastern Nigeria or Bight of Biafra category by finding strong common ancestral markers and attributing those markers to the eastern Nigeria area. This way you would have an Igbo person presumably scoring high Bight of Biafra ancestry, over 80%, like Fon people have high Benin/Togo. If go back in the thread you will see I posted that Igbo AA result. 2 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 1:20am On Mar 16, 2017 |
Ebow's on Ancestry.com (141,120 results) http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Ljh128&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsln=Ebow&gsln_x=0&msypn__ftp=Louisiana,%20USA&msypn=21&msypn_PInfo=5-%7C0%7C1652393%7C0%7C2%7C0%7C21%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C&MSAV=1&cpxt=1&cp=12&catbucket=rstp&uidh=mf3&gl=allgs&gst=&ghc=20&fh=20&fsk=BEEeEuMIgAAIvgAIjck-61- 3 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 1:28am On Mar 16, 2017 |
Ebow surname: http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=ebow 3 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 1:33am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: But there is nothing like "Bight of Biafra ancestry" Cameroonians are usually quite different from those in Eastern Nigeria, when it comes to DNA. I once saw the result of one Cameroonian person that had an Igbo grandparent, and his DNA was still atypical. Like I said before, Nigerians are usually the ones with split DNA. Read what Ancestry DNA says about Nigerians. They are the Africans with the least predictability compared to Senegambians, Mali region, Ghana/CV, Cameroon-Congo, SE bantu regions. Nigeria is a country at crossroads between West and Center. Look at Nigeria's location very well on a map. Hence, together with the Aboriginal Nigerian elements, we usuallly combine Benin-Togo and Cameroon-Congo with our DNA sequences. Look at the result of this Igbo person below. Nigerian 77% Benin/Togo 13% Cameron / Congo 5% Ivory Coast / Ghana 4% Mali 1% |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by 9jakool: 1:34am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: Yeah I see but it's confusing with the Fulani/Hausa. Where did that come from? It would be nice to know what markers they are associating with each country or ethnic group. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 1:37am On Mar 16, 2017 |
9jakool: Gur is just a language group that don't have their own unique markers. Theya re also very widely spread. Look at the location of Gur language speakers below Like i said they are a combination of the Mali ancestral region and the Ghana-Ivory Coast or Benin-Togo region in terms of ancestry. Why don't you buy it? All people are a mx of more than one region, just that degree of admixtures vary from some showing 80-90% for one region (like Congolese or Beninese people), and others being more admixed with neighboring distinct zones (Like Nigerians). |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by 9jakool: 1:54am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo:Linguistic evidence would suggest that Gur, like any other West African language branch evolved independently, so why would Gur be mixed from already existing Malian and Ghana/Ivory Coast group or Togo/Benin group. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 2:03am On Mar 16, 2017 |
9jakool: Not really. The Origins, Range and even members of the Gur languages are quite unclear, however some languages fit in more than others. The Gur family was previously called Voltaic. It was once considered to be more extensive than it is often regarded today, including the Senufo languages and a number of small language isolates. The membership of Senufo was rejected for example by Tony Naden. Williamson and Blench. Place Senufo as a separate branch of Atlantic–Congo and other non-Central Gur languages somewhat closer as separate branches of the Savanna languages. The closest relatives of Gur appear to be the Adamawa family One mistake you are making is thinking all people who are grouped together as belonging to the same language group must all share the same DNA marker, that is not right. People only develop a unique marker after settling down in an area for Hundreds upon hundreds of years and intermarrying closely within that population. Over time they become unique and will be able to show markers that can strongly be associated with that particular population. The classification of the Gurs show that they belong to the Voltaic-Adamawa-Ubangui languages which is quite wide ranging/extensive. Not all groups have had enough time to develop in relative isolation to bear their own markers. Look at your other video for example, I wasn't surprised one bit to see Liberians/Sierra leoneans showing a mix of two distinct regions- Ivory Coast Ghana, which seem to be a very ancient aboriginal West African ancestry line + Senegalese or Malian. Why did it catch you by surprise? If you look at DNA of Europeans, there is a category known as "North West European" Which most Western European groups have in varying degrees, but it is there in most of them- sometimes in combination with other distinct regions. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by 9jakool: 2:22am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: Yes I completely understand, but I think it's wrong to claim that a specific marker is exclusively tied to one ethnic group. There was a Liberian who got 91% Ghana/Ivory Coast, but that doesn't make him Akan, even though many Akan also score high in the area. It is possible that the ethnic groups in that area share similar ancient ancestry, and have not develop a unique marker. It would be wrong to claim that the reason why a Kru person could have that high of a percentage of Ghana/Ivory Coast, is because of the intermixing with Akan. It could have been that that both used to bee one group that separated a long time ago. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:26am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: The thing is I don't agree with the idea that Cameroon/Congo are a homogenous group, Ivory Coast/Ghana are same, and Benin/Togo are homogenous, and then Nigeria across the board is just a mixture of these groups. There's no history to suggest that and it's very random anyway and doesn't show any clear migration pattern (especially Ivory Coast/Ghana showing up higher in Igbo results), so it's probably just a reflection of how the sampled populations were grouped. As has been already posted, African Ancestry matched an Igbo persons maternal DNA to the Tikar and Fulani in Cameroon. 1 Like |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 2:29am On Mar 16, 2017 |
9jakool: Well, maybe a group similar in genetics to the Akan actually inhabited the Areas from Sierra Leone to Lake Volta. Very possible. He is not Akan today, as ethnic identities have developed among various people, but his ancestry surely ties him to very old mutual ancestors with the Akan language speakers. The boldened part of your statement is exactly what i am saying. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:31am On Mar 16, 2017 |
Ultimately it seems likely that Ancestry DNA did not go further than grouping ancestral markers by colonial borders which is why there's a random pattern in the large and ethnically diverse Nigeria than the more homogenous and smaller Ghana/Ivory Coast and Benin/Togo they are still working on their database so everything is still fairly speculative. 2 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 2:34am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: Sir, that is exactly the case. They don't just pull these things out of their asses. Ancestry DNA says: When describing their 9 African AncestryDNA regions Ancestry.com mentions explicitly that because of widespread shared ancestry regionally speaking, a “typical native” from any of these regions will usually also get a breakdown into several AncestryDNA regions and not fit 100% in their national region. Like Mali this region is also described by Ancestry.com as being one of the most admixed. If you look closely at the last screenshot (fig. 3.4) shown above, it seems the Nigerian samples also have the widest ranging variation, some scoring convincingly high amounts of “Nigeria” and others much lower. Not really surprising given that Nigeria has the biggest and most diverse population in Africa. Too much genetic variety. Any actual Nigerian person might typically also carry ancestral markers from neighbouring countries, like Benin and Cameroon. I’ve seen the results of 15 Nigerians so far and all of them show great variation including those belonging to the same ethnic groups. You can question their techniques quite alright, but there is some truth to their methods. Note the Congo here is not the Big DRC Congo but the smaller Congo ROC closer to Cameroon. So, why according to you should an Ivorian and ghanaian be similar, but a Cameroonian and their closer Bantu neighbor in ROC probably sharing same ancestral and tribal groupings not be?
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Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 2:39am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: Pls, can I see it? |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:44am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: "DON’T take the labeling of the AncestryDNA regions with country names too literally. Ancestry.com mentions themselves how their “regions” (perhaps more properly termed ancestral/genetic components) might be named after specific countries but in fact they are found in neighbouring countries as well. Plus some of the regions will have a higher “prediction accuracy” than others based on how Ancesty’s own samples (“typical native”) score when they get tested (i will post the screenshots on the bottom of this page for those who don’t have access). Therefore I don’t think we should get caught up too much in how these regions are named. It’s just proven to be very difficult to come up with 100% appropriate labels, this goes for any DNA testing company sofar btw." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_dAfxRy6no&list=PLm2A_Jdbg98ipInq4VHsTAwORd0OWgF87 1 Like |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:46am On Mar 16, 2017 |
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Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 2:48am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: Isn't this exactly what I am saying? That the identifications go beyond national borders, BUT are more concentrates within certain regions/Ethnic groupings which inherently points to their origin. benin/Togo peaks among GBE people and radiates into Nigeria. Cameroon-Congo peaks in Bamoun/Tikar/Fang Etc and radiates into Nigeria. Nigeria peaks (with a lower %) with certain groups in Nigeria and also shows up among some Beninese, Ghanaians and Cameroonians. The same thing you are saying about Ghanaian showing up in Igbo Results as not being plausible and just "random" could also be said by an Ashanti from Kumasi, showing like 10% Nigerian in her results, when her entire generation can't even remember ever being in contact with any Nigerian group of people. It is ancient African Ancestries that simply peak in particular places. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:51am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: There's nothing about the origin, in fact the post was warning about how the results are just a reflection of the people sampled, look at the table posted above from here: https://tracingafricanroots./ancestrydna-regions/ 1 Like |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:55am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: But that's the thing, you've already pointed out that Akan people come out more than 90% Iv/Gh, they hardly come out more than 1% Nig. which should not be the case if they were influencing Igbo pop, I guess by flying over the Benin/Togo and Yoruba. 2 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 2:56am On Mar 16, 2017 |
Ghanaian's results. (AKAN) 89% GHANA-CV 10% NIGERIA Cameroonian's result's. (BAMILEKE) 84% CAMEROON-CONGO 11% NIGERIA 2% GHANA-CV 2% BENIN-TOGO Look at the various Nigerian tribes here. [img]http://tracingafricanroots.files./2016/08/naija-ethnic-diversity.jpg?w=869[/img] None of them have anything to do with Nigerian people. They show a dominance of their actual regions and an additional component from a neighboring country that they share ancient ancestries with CASE CLOSED. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 2:59am On Mar 16, 2017 |
YonkijiSappo: Now explain how the Ghanaian woman's Nigeria ancestry flew over Benin/Togo. 2 Likes |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 3:03am On Mar 16, 2017 |
Nigeria is a Melting Pot of Ancient Nigerians Ancient Cameroonians and Ancient Gbe people. 1 Like |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by ezeagu(m): 3:05am On Mar 16, 2017 |
From Ancestry DNA "What is a reference panel and why do we need one? To determine where your DNA comes from, we need to compare it to a panel of reference samples with known origins. If we can identify samples to which you are genetically similar, and we know the ethnicity of those samples, we can infer your genetic ethnicity from that comparison." How they do that: "Figure 3.1: Reference Panel Refinement Cycle. Schematic of the ethnicity estimation reference panel refinement cycle. In step 1 we select candidate reference samples from published data, the AncestryDNA consented customer list, and the AncestryDNA proprietary reference collection. For AncestryDNA samples we rely on pedigree data to select those with deep ancestry from a single population. In step 2 we filter out closely related samples from the candidate list. In step 3 we use principal components analysis (PCA) to remove samples that show a disagreement in pedigree and genetic origins. We also use PCA to guide regional cluster definitions. In step 4 the panel is performance tested using numerous metrics and compared to the previous release. The final result is a high-quality, well-tested reference panel that significantly improves genetic ethnicity estimation. The entire procedure is cyclic, and AncestryDNA will continue to make improvements on the panel with the goal of providing the most accurate ethnicity estimation possible with the data available." You can see that they are clearly grouping people how they want and considering the sample size by regions they used: It's clear that there could be a related group created out of the regions if their sample was big enough, this means that if they grouped south eastern Nigerians together and did the pedigree analysis and checked their common ancestry you'd get Igbo people coming out with 80%+ for this new region and you'd also get other Africans coming out with a little or trace amounts of this ancestry. The sample size is very small. 1 Like |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 3:07am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: these things can only be speculated honestly. The admixtures are usually beyond the living memory of any of these groups. Maybe an hunter gatherer group from somewhere with Nigerian markers, migrated westward to somewhere near her area and mixed with the people there. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by YonkijiSappo: 3:11am On Mar 16, 2017 |
ezeagu: Well, they need to increase their sample sizes surely. The Africa SE Bantu is even the most under represented not Nigeria. such a small number for such a large group of people. yet they can relatively accurately tell people with that ancestry. One Ugandan scores like 90% African SE bantu. So it works well. And I am not eactly sure what they will discover (so to speak) with bigger sample number. For the sake of ending the to and fro, let us hope that maybe in future, they will be able to differentiate different tribes. But as for now, they haven't shown to be able to do that with believable accuracy. |
Re: Slaves from The Bight of Benin Vs The Bight of Biafra- Numbers & Cultural Legacy by bigfrancis21: 4:37pm On May 20, 2017 |
YourNemesis: Bight of Benin Slave Trade Despite Domingos’s specific claim that he was from Nangoˆ/Nangon, the majority |
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