Sweetheart you won't be a "changed" person for long. Once you have eaten the forbidden fruit there is no turning back.

michelin89:

Sweetheart you won't be a "changed" person for long. Once you have eaten the forbidden fruit there is no turning back.

I reject it, is not my potion to go back to darkness again, Christ have giving me the grace and his grace is sufficient.

banom:

I reject it, is not my potion to go back to darkness again, Christ have giving me the grace and his grace is sufficient.

But he didn't give you skills.

Come on fellow, we are the Enlightened. You can't eliminate your doubts just after a night.

michelin89:

But he didn't give you skills.

Come on fellow, we are the Enlightened. You can't eliminate your doubts just after a night.

it was a day that Christ saved the world.

Refuse dogmatism. It is darkness.

michelin89:

Refuse dogmatism. It is darkness.

what dogma ?

Christianity and any other form of spirituality are pure dogmatism. You are leaving an illusion. Wake up!

michelin89:

Christianity and any other form of spirituality are pure dogmatism. You are leaving an illusion. Wake up!

hahaha, i think i am in a better position to tell which is illusion between Christianity and Atheism, meanwhile are you a christian or an Atheist ?

I have changed my mind. Remain a Christian.

michelin89:

Christianity and any other form of spirituality are pure dogmatism. You are leaving an illusion. Wake up!

And atheism is not dogma?

Atheism is the negation of any form on dogmatism!

michelin89:

Atheism is the negation of any form on dogmatism!

Nope, that is your atheism, not the atheism of other atheists who are as dogmatic about their own atheism to the exclusion of all other worldviews.

Topic. . .
GBAM!!!!!!

@post
thats what i used believe, how can a christian become an athiest then go back to christianity again? What are the odds on something happening in his life that'll make him go back to athiesm?

@banom
anyway i wish u all the best in your new belief system and i'll do my best to make sure your conversion topic gets on the homepage

michelin89:

Atheism is the negation of any form on dogmatism!

You make me laugh again though in my village style this time,

when you here words like conservatives, liberals , we tend to think that a liberal is an opposite of a conservative or extremist , forgetting that liberalism is another form of conservatism.

I totally agree there is no going back the doubts will haunt you forever, unless you were never an atheist

Chrisbenogor:

I totally agree there is no going back the doubts will haunt you forever, unless you were never an atheist

Not true. Are you trying to say that no atheist is known to have converted to any religion (not only Christianity)? What qualifies someone as "atheist" in such a way that conversion to any worldview other than atheism is [b]im[/b]possible?

banom:

You make me laugh again though in my village style this time,

when you here words like conservatives, liberals , we tend to think that a liberal is an opposite of a conservative or extremist , forgetting that liberalism is another form of conservatism.

Maybe you mean democracy. Things are always different when considered in facts and in theory.

Speaking in theory, Atheism is meant to free your mind from any bond. You can't stop being one once you have been. I guess you were never an Atheist, because you'd know what I am talking about.  

Chrisbenogor:

I totally agree there is no going back the doubts will haunt you forever, unless you were never an atheist  

of course you are right, presently one of my greatest doubt is the story of the forbidding fruit and the fall of man, i find it very difficult to accept, but i hope God will help me in due time.

michelin89:

Atheism is meant to free your mind from any bond. You can't stop being one once you have been. I guess you were never an Atheist, because you'd know what I am talking about.  

Could I also ask you the same questions as above? Here -

viaro:

Are you trying to say that no atheist is known to have converted to any religion (not only Christianity)?

viaro:
What qualifies someone as "atheist" in such a way that conversion to any worldview other than atheism is [b]im[/b]possible?

You refuse to see the point. Atheism is not something, it's the negation of something. If I negate a being, it means it doesn't exist. You keep trying to identify it with an existing system of belief, which is wrong.

It's not a system, it is rather the absence of a system.

michelin89:

Maybe you mean democracy. Things are always different when considered in facts and in theory.

Speaking in theory, Atheism is meant to free your mind from any bond. You can't stop being one once you have been. I guess you were never an Atheist, because you'd know what I am talking about.  

sorry , can you give me a concise definition of what[b] freedom[/b] is   ?

Why do I need to define it for you? It's something you live. Of didn't you feel free when you were or you thought you were an atheist?

michelin89:

You refuse to see the point. Atheism is not something, it's the negation of something. If I negate a being, it means it doesn't exist. You keep trying to identify it with an existing system of belief, which is wrong.

Again, you're wrong - for that up there is your own idea of atheism, which is not the atheism of many other atheists who hold their own atheism to the exclusion of all others.

Atheism is 'something', even though it portends to hold a 'negative' idea about another 'something'. If atheism (your own atheism) is not 'something', you would be least concerned about anyone who has been one, let alone your statement that "You can't stop being one once you have been" - how do people 'stop' being something that is not 'something'?

That was why I asked you directly: "Are you trying to say that no atheist is known to have converted to any religion (not only Christianity)?"

When you say that an atheist cannot stop being an atheist, it contradicts the fact on ground that many atheists have left atheism behind for their new found belief systems - religious or philosophical. That is fact, not fancy.

Secondly, since many atheists like to believe that an atheist cannot stop being one (even though that is so, so untrue), I wanted to know why you would repeatedly maintain that idea in the face of its fallacy. To which, my second question: "What qualifies someone as "atheist" in such a way that conversion to any worldview other than atheism is [b]im[/b]possible?"

It's not a system, it is rather the absence of a system.

Atheism is a system as much as any other worldview. This will become obvious in the course of the thread, and your subsequent answers to questions like the above.

How am I wrong? I am not into any form of dogmatism, so I am perfectly in the position to give any interpretation according to my own experience. Saying I am wrong is absurd because there is no rule you can abide to to actually prove that I am wrong.

Secondly once someone has experienced the doubts, it is hard to go back. We aren't speaking about something physical, but spiritual, which makes it very difficult to go back to spiritual after you yourself has experienced its fallacy. Even Banom agreed that he has not fully accepted Christianity and still battles with certain episodes.

Atheism is the absence of a system and when you negate the spiritual, you hardly go back. Remember Cartesio? I guess you know how he ended. He wanted to start by negating everything and ended up being just half of what he actually is and that may also occur to Banom, if for real he was an Atheist, which I doubt.

Atheism is not skepticism or cynicism, so nothing stops you from embracing another religion after going through a period of NO dogmas. But you become extremely analytical and critical and your new faith had better been something with solid foundation.

I can's see an an Atheist who was once a Christian becoming a Muslim or a Jew. It's out right impossible. They can embrace a philosophy but never a spirituality.

michelin89:

How am I wrong? I am not into any form of dogmatism, so I am perfectly in the position to give any interpretation according to my own experience.

Let me help: you are wrong. Again, you are wrong! How, you ask? For one, you're making a dogmatic statement repeatedly that flies in the face of the facts on ground. It is NOT TRUE that an atheist cannot stop being an atheist - which is as false as false can be. To help you see the fallacy in that statement was why I asked that question repeatedly: "Are you trying to say that no atheist is known to have converted to any religion (not only Christianity)?"

If you tell me that no atheist is known to have converted to any religion, then a second question becomes pertinent: "What qualifies someone as "atheist" in such a way that conversion to any worldview other than atheism is im[/b]possible?" Both questions are sequenced to help point you to the fallacy of your repeated assertion.

A second thing is that your reply confirms my point: when you say that you're giving 'any interpretation according to [b]my own experience', is that not what I have often noted about "your own idea of atheism"? To remain in the cubicle of your own idea/experience(s) does not mean therefore that outside of that experience nothing else stands. In fact, when you do a little looking around, you find the world has moved on beyond your own ideas about what you are trying to make out of atheism; and to repeatedly maintain that attitude of 'your own' idea/experience(s) is as dogmatic as you allege in others.

Saying I am wrong is absurd because there is no rule you can abide to to actually prove that I am wrong.

You're wrong - that is not absurd; and I just explained above. There is actually a rule beyond "your own"; and to clap about 'your own' in the face of others is dogmatic.

Secondly once someone has experienced the doubts, it is hard to go back. We aren't speaking about something physical, but spiritual, which makes it very difficult to go back to spiritual after you yourself has experienced its fallacy.

Don't make me laugh!
What does your own atheism know as "spiritual"? How do you 'experience' between the two (physical and spiritual) in order to qualify your own atheism as different from the atheism of others? Difficult to go back to the spiritual, you say? That is only to be considered for discussion when and only when you can explicate between the spiritual and the physical - otherwise, it were better that you don't use words carelessly around in your posts.

However, if I'm not preempting anything here, let me point out that I'm already aware of several positions of atheists who see themselves as Spiritual Atheists (SA). Here are just two among the many different shades of this 'SA's -

[list](1) There is no consensus among Spiritual Atheists regarding the literal existence of one's own "spirit" or a collective "spirit"; however, there is consensus that if any "spirit" does exist, it is not external to the universe and it is not "supernatural".
http://www.spiritualatheism.com/[/list]

[list](2) Spiritual Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of "God", defined as an entity external to the universe that created and rules the universe; but the presence of belief in the existence of "God", defined as the personification of the universe itself.
http://wikibin.org/articles/spiritual-atheism.html[/list]

While the first acknowledges that there is no concensus among SAs, the second, however, distinguishes itself from "traditional atheism" (as I noted earlier between different types of atheism, like your own as distinct from those of other atheists) - and then goes on to highlight a few systems considered as "spiritual atheism" -

[list]The following spiritual philosophies are generally considered to be part of the Spiritual Atheism family:

       *Buddhism
       *Non-literal Christianity (also known as Esoteric Christianity)
       *Non-literal Islam (also known as Esoteric Islam)
       *Non-literal Judaism (also known as Esoteric Judaism)
       *Non-literal Theism (also known as Esoteric Theism)
       *Hinduism
       *New Age
       *Paganism
       *Pantheism
       *Panentheism
       *Spiritual Humanism
       *Spiritual Naturalism
       *Taoism
       *Wicca[/list]

Which one do you identify with? And if you cross out all the above and more, does your own atheism mean the very same thing as other atheists' atheism?

Even Banom agreed that he has not fully accepted Christianity and still battles with certain episodes.

I don't see how banom was saying the same thing as your assertion that an atheist cannot but remain an atheist.

Atheism is the absence of a system and when you negate the spiritual, you hardly go back.

Excuse me? Lol, let me just allow you to hold your very limited view - as it is way too off the curve from what atheism is to many other atheists. Wnat more - I can post loads for your consideration.

Remember Cartesio? I guess you know how he ended. He wanted to start by negating everything and ended up being just half of what he actually is and that may also occur to Banom, if for real he was an Atheist, which I doubt.

I remeber Cartesio; but I don't see how that name is the cut-and-dry mold into which every atheist must be cast to qualify as atheists through history. Nor do I see how Banom is trying to negate everything and end up negating himself, lol.

Atheism is not skepticism or cynicism, so nothing stops you from embracing another religion after going through a period of NO dogmas. But you become extremely analytical and critical and your new faith had better been something with solid foundation.

People who leave atheism behind have their reasons for doing so - and atheists who are far too concerned thereto have been very cynical, not to mention a die-hard skepticism that they bind on themselves. It is the dogmatism of these latter that I'm asking again that you consider.

I can's see an an Atheist who was once a Christian becoming a Muslim or a Jew. It's out right impossible. They can embrace a philosophy but never a spirituality.

I'm not asking you about multi-level conversions and deconversions; but simply: "Are you trying to say that no atheist is known to have converted to any religion (not only Christianity)?"

michelin89:

But he didn't give you skills.

Come on fellow, we are the Enlightened. You can't eliminate your doubts just after a night.

When will you atheists stop living in your delusions? No seriously you are "enlightened" about what?

Hello my honey pie!! Missed you!

michelin89:

Hello my honey pie!! Missed you!

[size=13pt]Banom nor try at all. . . . . . .

Just see what i mean he choose to be an atheist because of the accident of his dad but i wasn't really an atheist and only claim to be one. . . i think couple of weeks ego some so called God worshippers must have bribe him to re-save the death Jesus the jewish guy and he simply nod his head like a kid to their demand. . .well, i wish him the best of luck on his new path but hope he realise what he's doing before it gets too late.[/size]

When we were very young we used to believe in father christmas. When we learned to think rationally we stopped believing it. How can one decide to go back to believing it again after discovering to truth that it was all lies. You need to face reality, you cannot return to the ignorant bliss of childhood. You might try but i think that one day soon you will become a born again atheist!