blessings2017:


You're missing the point.

Bride price is where parents of the bride collect a sum of money given by the groom which ushers in the celebration of a traditional marriage amidst other requirements. Strictly speaking, money is being collected on top of the woman's head.

This is akin to slavery. In slavery, money was paid for the slaves and their master owned them. We all agree this practise was all shades of wrong, against natural justice and basic human rights. How was it abolished? By declaration of its illegality after several public outcry against it.

That way, payment of bride price and all its appurtenances should be abolished. It follows that if we are trying to embrace everything about the western way of marriage, which is marriage by convenience, then bride price which is dehumanizing ( a man paying money to 'own' his bride ) should also be abolished. Because it is from there that most Nigerian men have that entitlement over you as 'lord"

Let me just advise you this, stop arguing with that dude honestly he will drag you down to his own level and beat you arms down with his wealth of experience . lol na joke o.

On a more serious note, I find AzeD1 arguement sometimes difficult to comprehend, like the point he is trying to make here:

Parents of the bride? In Igbo land, the women are not even allowed were the discussion is taking place. The Yoruba's don't collect it anymore so I don't know why you are saying parents because its usually 'elders' comprised of men.

Isn't this statement absolutely preposterous ? How can you say this brotherly howwwwwwww
If the men are the one collecting bride price is it the men from the husbands family or the wives family ?

Can you stand in front of your prospective father-in-law and tell him : because your child will be equal to me in this marriage so am not paying you the dowry just lets kiss and become husband and wife and he will not send the dogs after you ?

AZeD1:

Parents of the bride? In Igbo land, the women are not even allowed were the discussion is taking place. The Yoruba's don't collect it anymore so I don't know why you are saying parents because its usually 'elders' comprised of men.

Re-read my post and see that i stated bride price and other requirements which are chiefly borne by the groom.

Women not being participants in the discussion doesn't make it any less a bride price. Likewise, parents in an African definition connotes more than the real parents of a child.

Can’t believe we are still talking about this nonsense.

TheCongo2:


God is wonderful.
But too bad that you have dumped your fiancee after been blessed.
And this is what prompted the discussion on family
Issue to start on this thread.

.

Olabestonic001:



I'm telling you.
Many Nigerians (men and women alike) will regret getting a PR later in life. The men, because they know next to nothing about love and the women, because the know next to nothing about marriage.

They'd be better off staying back in Naija or better still reformatting their mindsets towards marital harmony. A rebellious woman will be happy that Canadian system favors women and she will be glad to exploit that. A foolish man will be hell bent on his African mentality of marriage and get his life shattered in Canada.

I hope arguments of head and shoulder is dispelled for love, serving each other, honesty and purity.

Guitarlife:

Let me just advise you this, stop arguing with that dude honestly he will drag you down to his own level and beat you arms down with his wealth of experience . lol na joke o.

On a more serious note, I find AzeD1 arguement sometimes difficult to comprehend, like the point he is trying to make here:

Parents of the bride? In Igbo land, the women are not even allowed were the discussion is taking place. The Yoruba's don't collect it anymore so I don't know why you are saying parents because its usually 'elders' comprised of men.

Isn't this statement absolutely preposterous ? How can you say this brotherly howwwwwwww
If the men are the one collecting bride price is it the men from the husbands family or the wives family ?

Can you stand in front of your prospective father-in-law and tell him : because your child will be equal to me in this marriage so am not paying you the dowry just lets kiss and become husband and wife and he will not send the dogs after you ?

blessings2017:


Re-read my post and see that i stated bride price and other requirements which are chiefly borne by the groom.

Women not being participants in the discussion doesn't make it any less a bride price. Likewise, parents in an African definition connotes more than the real parents of a child.

Men pay bride price to Men. If the Men decide not to collect anymore, there won't be any bride price to pay. Saying women should stop the collection of bride price is akin to blaming children for child labour. If their parents don't sell them out there would be no child labour.

...

Guitarlife,
I owe you a drink if we ever meet in person.
Not that I agree with all your stated views but I'm impressed with how you engaged and responded maturely without resorting to the needless name calling.

You know what you seek for and that is good. I believe there are women out there who may be seeking same too.
On the other hand, there are men who seek the opposite of what you desire and for sure, there are even more women to meet the demand.

In the end, as with most things in life, it's all down to our CHOICES.
Live and let live.

adewa1980:


Some people come in through provincial nominee programme which they need to stick with their province unless there are compelling reasons why they need to move otherwise it can affect their citizenship application in the future. That is just opinion...

True. Wasn't talking about those people though.

If you are overly wise, you won't tarry in marriage.
Na so my mama teach me

Zutlin:


I can't explain how I feel reading your mindset towards marriage. Men like you scare me and one of my motivations to immigrate is to drastically reduce the chances of me and my unborn daughters coming across a man with your mindset. Sadly, your kind abounds in Nigeria.

You see, I understand you perfectly. My husband reasons just like you and he's always quick to bring religion and submission into the picture. I am a quiet and agreeable person and in hindsight, it's part of the reason he thought I would make a good wife. When I began pushing back by saying 'NO! This and that is inhumane and not acceptable', he labels me a nag, says I am unforgiving and always threatens divorce, all in a bid to shut me up. That threat really got me into 'submission'.

Maternal is right about the divorce rate in Nigeria being lower due to financial constraint. I tell you if Nigerian women had the needed support, many would have walked out. If I wasn't lucky to have a family that can financially, morally and emotionally support me, 'submission' would have been my lot.

Someday soon I plan to walk away. I do wish to get married again but the thought of being with a Nigerian man frightens me. I'm so drained I don't think I can go that route again.

**I'm sorry to share this much but I really wish men like you would understand better.**

I'm usually right. lol. But seriously, I hope you find a way to migrate. The chance of finding a guy like guitarlife won't drastically reduce if you come to the west (Canada/US), it will be eliminated. Guitar is just forming for this thread, and he knows he has no real power in Canada. The second he shows any signs of aggression, all she has to do is call 911, police will come with their guns and he'll be sitting in jail within an hour. The sec he says "divorce is out of the question", she'll file for divorce. After the judge splits the assets 50/50, he'll have to get a second job to help pay his child support bills on top of his regular bills. Because the gov't will automatically take it out of his pay. And if he can't make them ? Na jail be that. The man is making mouth. Here in Canada he'll be kissing his wifes asss begging her not to leave. I have an uncle worse than him and he refuses to bring his wife to Canada. According to him she'd "finish him here in Canada". He's legit scared that she'll have certain powers she could only dream off in naija. They've been "married" for 8 years now. Guitar is just talking nonsense trust me. There's actually a good article on this.



https://www.newtelegraphng.com/2018/06/why-nigerian-husbands-kill-wives-in-us-investigation/

Your views sir, are representative of biblical headship and I have to say sir, that you are a representation of manhood.

If start to drop my two-two cents, POF go finish. But I will only add that "submission" or what is like to call respect (in its deepest and most profound form) comes naturally to a woman who is loved (sincerely, unconditionally and yes, sacrificially) and treated right. It is a natural bi-product of a loving and trusting relationship.

Submission, like respect cannot be "demanded" but earned. It's not something that is earned merely by acquiring the title "husband" or by having a phallus (borrowing the word from a poster). A woman will naturally submit to someone she trusts -- trust to understand, consider and more importantly, PROTECT her in all of his decisions/dealings. A woman will let down her guard for, and defer to any man she KNOWS will protect her, no matter what.

Sirs, I understand how important submission is to a man. But you also don't want forced or pretend "submission", the type that leads to marital collapse once the woman finds an escape route. You want the submission that is willingly given, from a place of a woman's trust.

DaddyTheFather:




Guy...your Mrs and my Mrs must have been made on the same day by the same able God. Woman that you know you can die today and your kids will be fine. I greet you sir.

Seriously though, the Bible talk say I be head and I see myself as the head. But the head of an organisation is the chief servant. A president answers to the people. A true head is not afraid of challenge, because it means you must be certain of the direction you want the ship to take, so that when that woman that is every bit as capable as you asks you to explain yourself, your answer will be something more articulate than "don't question the head".

Una wey dey form undisputed head, Sha remember that once you claim that title, you become the lowest servant of all. Maybe think about that before you start carrying chest and doing manly posture...

THANK YOU

Estac:
Your views sir, are representative of biblical headship and I have to say sir, that you are a representation of manhood.

If start to drop my two-two cents, POF go finish. But I will only add that "submission" or what is like to call respect (in its deepest and most profound form) comes naturally to a woman who is loved (sincerely, unconditionally and yes, sacrificially) and treated right. It is a natural bi-product of a loving and trusting relationship.

Submission, like respect cannot be "demanded" but earned. It's not something that is earned merely by acquiring the title "husband" or by having a phallus (borrowing the word from a poster). A woman will naturally submit to someone she trusts -- trust to understand, consider and more importantly, PROTECT her in all of his decisions/dealings. A woman will let down her guard for, and defer to any man she KNOWS will protect her, no matter what.

Sirs, I understand how important submission is to a man. But you also don't want forced or pretend "submission", the type that leads to marital collapse once the woman finds an escape route. You want the submission that is willingly given, from a place of a woman's trust.

Zutlin:


I can't explain how I feel reading your mindset towards marriage. Men like you scare me and one of my motivations to immigrate is to drastically reduce the chances of me and my unborn daughters coming across a man with your mindset. Sadly, your kind abounds in Nigeria.

You see, I understand you perfectly. My husband reasons just like you and he's always quick to bring religion and submission into the picture. I am a quiet and agreeable person and in hindsight, it's part of the reason he thought I would make a good wife. When I began pushing back by saying 'NO! This and that is inhumane and not acceptable', he labels me a nag, says I am unforgiving and always threatens divorce, all in a bid to shut me up. That threat really got me into 'submission'.

Maternal is right about the divorce rate in Nigeria being lower due to financial constraint. I tell you if Nigerian women had the needed support, many would have walked out. If I wasn't lucky to have a family that can financially, morally and emotionally support me, 'submission' would have been my lot.

Someday soon I plan to walk away. I do wish to get married again but the thought of being with a Nigerian man frightens me. I'm so drained I don't think I can go that route again.

**I'm sorry to share this much but I really wish men like you would understand better.**

I will appreciate you don't use that 'submission' as a bait and ride on his goodwill to immigrate after which you execute the bolded because you have will have arrived a new space.. Get done with whatever your plans may be in wherever you are, stand up as a WOMAN that you are and paddle the immigration ship from start to finish by yourself so you can get married to anyone of choice on arrival in your new space... That exactly is what is worth doing and honorable to do in the position to which you stand now.. It will be inhumane to have the man invest in all that pertains to immigration with a bottled up plan of wielding the axe when the food don done oo..

Guitarlife:

Bro what it means is that we all have different ways of interpreting things which is one of the things that makes us entirely unique in this world.
You see a goal getter , I saw a fighter, I am the man and culturally I am expected and created to be aggressive, I want my women soft (this doesn't mean weak) .

I want my woman to be a woman, not a woman who secretly wishes and pushes to be a man. Aggression, rage, temper etc and primarily associated with testosterone , lets just say such behaviour in women turns me off.

With regards to your request for her number ? Let me think about it.

hmm... i don't refute the man is the head but it would seem your definition of been the head is way different or totally extreme. I expect any man would be happy to have his woman fight on his behalf, where he lost and in this case have a better bargaining power. This is just like with my parent. My mum is the action lady and my dad is the cool one. And yet even with all her gragra, she still respects my dad totally and his position as the man is not questionable, and their marriage still going strong.

Infact i can almost picture my husband hailing me if this was both of us in that situation, its hilarious to imagine him been upset that i got more change from the driver. Trust me, it doesnt make you less of a man. It doesn't at all. It doesnt strip you of your "headness". (For lack of more appropriate word to use).

Lastly, when you say you want your woman soft, even though you have claimed its not the same as weak. Believe me, you totally mean weak. Yes weak women. except you dont want to accept that truth.

I totally respect your opinion though. No one can make your decisions for you. I just think its also important that we open our eyes and minds to other contrasting views to help inform our decisions better.

Does it mean that one must have over 2 years of working experience before he can qualify for the FSW entry program?

ceemac:


I will appreciate you don't use that 'submission' as a bait and ride on his goodwill to immigrate after which you execute the bolded because you have will have arrived a new space.. Get done with whatever your plans may be in wherever you are, stand up as a WOMAN that you are and paddle the immigration ship from start to finish by yourself so you can get married to anyone of choice on arrival in your new space... That exactly is what is worth doing and honorable to do in the position to which you stand now.. It will be inhumane to have the man invest in all that pertains to immigration with a bottled up plan of wielding the axe when the food don done oo..

I did mention being thankful for a family who's got my back financially and otherwise - I really meant that. Besides, my exit isn't tied to PPR. He's aware of my intention.

Nawa.......

Thanks for all the well wishes baby says a big thank you to her nairaland aunties and uncle's God bless you all

Ethelia:
Nawa.......

Thanks for all the well wishes baby says a big thank you to her nairaland aunties and uncle's God bless you all

Congrats on your new baby Ethelia....

Here we go....

Bsbabe:
Here we go....

Treadmill ?

TheCongo2:


Treadmill ?

Oh yeah... making progress....

Bsbabe:


Oh yeah... making progress....

There you go girl.
I am pretty sure Guitarlife had got the message: Don't even think of messing with women in 2019 given that they can lift weight and do pushups

This is a lesson I have learnt ages ago

Oh God!

Which kain wahala be this?No landing gist?

This argument have been over flogged abeg

Well, people like us are learning anyways.

But it's okay my daddies and mummies

Lhimeet:
Oh God!

Which kain wahala be this?No landing gist?

This argument have been over flogged abeg

Well, people like us are learning anyways.

But it's okay my daddies and mummies

So, which side of this argument are you standing on ?
Just pick a side

You've just hit the nail on the head. Respect (submission) is earned and not demanded for. Enter a relationship with love and an open mind not with your "submission antenna" on full alert and you'd be happier.

Estac:
Your views sir, are representative of biblical headship and I have to say sir, that you are a representation of manhood.

If start to drop my two-two cents, POF go finish. But I will only add that "submission" or what is like to call respect (in its deepest and most profound form) comes naturally to a woman who is loved (sincerely, unconditionally and yes, sacrificially) and treated right. It is a natural bi-product of a loving and trusting relationship.

Submission, like respect cannot be "demanded" but earned. It's not something that is earned merely by acquiring the title "husband" or by having a phallus (borrowing the word from a poster). A woman will naturally submit to someone she trusts -- trust to understand, consider and more importantly, PROTECT her in all of his decisions/dealings. A woman will let down her guard for, and defer to any man she KNOWS will protect her, no matter what.

Sirs, I understand how important submission is to a man. But you also don't want forced or pretend "submission", the type that leads to marital collapse once the woman finds an escape route. You want the submission that is willingly given, from a place of a woman's trust.

Great arguments here even though i didn't relish the name calling and ad-hominem by esteemed veterans, using anecdotal extremes as general statements e.t.c
I get @Guiterlife 's point, but i dont agree with many nuances in his argument. Also a lot of us should also be willing to leave our ideological echo-chamber and welcome new ideas.

People exist first as individuals whose values are shaped by familial experiences, culture, religious doctrines and social constructs. We as Africans always seem to be quick to adopt cultures foreign to us cos we see it as "progressive". Many of these "progressive" doctrines and post-mordernist ideologies who believe gender is a social construct, have led to the erosion of traditional values and the hike in divorce, depression and suicide rates. Lots of asians on the other hand, remain tightly knit because regardless of the society they find themselves, they always try to preserve and maintain their "culture"- way of life.

This is by no means me saying we shouldn't adapt to the nuances of our new environment - heck when the financial realities hit you, you will know that all hands(man +woman) needs to be on deck to make things on the family front work.

Value divergence is fundamental to the the cause of strife in most marriages of immigrant families.

There is no formula.

Marriage is all about constant negotiations and compromises between 2 people working towards a common vision/goal. One defers to the other and vice versa depending on who has the higher proficiency per time. Every marriage is different. Negotiate for what works for you. A recipe for discontentment and depression is agreeing to a position that goes against what you stand for - your values.

maternal:


I'm usually right. lol. But seriously, I hope you find a way to migrate. The chance of finding a guy like guitarlife won't drastically reduce if you come to the west (Canada/US), it will be eliminated. Guitar is just forming for this thread, and he knows he has no real power in Canada. The second he shows any signs of aggression, all she has to do is call 911, police will come with their guns and he'll be sitting in jail within an hour. The sec he says "divorce is out of the question", she'll file for divorce. After the judge splits the assets 50/50, he'll have to get a second job to help pay his child support bills on top of his regular bills. Because the gov't will automatically take it out of his pay. And if he can't make them ? Na jail be that. The man is making mouth. Here in Canada he'll be kissing his wifes asss begging her not to leave. I have an uncle worse than him and he refuses to bring his wife to Canada. According to him she'd "finish him here in Canada". He's legit scared that she'll have certain powers she could only dream off in naija. They've been "married" for 8 years now. Guitar is just talking nonsense trust me. There's actually a good article on this.



https://www.newtelegraphng.com/2018/06/why-nigerian-husbands-kill-wives-in-us-investigation/

...and here goes the double standard..

Huh?!

ceemac:


Spot on fam... the goal post must remain where we have to score hattrick oo... She's a barrister and I'm not surprised she is trying to exhibit and activate 'nolo contendere'... You caught her in the act of 'abracadabra'

Zutlin:


I can't explain how I feel reading your mindset towards marriage. Men like you scare me and one of my motivations to immigrate is to drastically reduce the chances of me and my unborn daughters coming across a man with your mindset. Sadly, your kind abounds in Nigeria.

You see, I understand you perfectly. My husband reasons just like you and he's always quick to bring religion and submission into the picture. I am a quiet and agreeable person and in hindsight, it's part of the reason he thought I would make a good wife. When I began pushing back by saying 'NO! This and that is inhumane and not acceptable', he labels me a nag, says I am unforgiving and always threatens divorce, all in a bid to shut me up. That threat really got me into 'submission'.

Maternal is right about the divorce rate in Nigeria being lower due to financial constraint. I tell you if Nigerian women had the needed support, many would have walked out. If I wasn't lucky to have a family that can financially, morally and emotionally support me, 'submission' would have been my lot.

Someday soon I plan to walk away. I do wish to get married again but the thought of being with a Nigerian man frightens me. I'm so drained I don't think I can go that route again.

**I'm sorry to share this much but I really wish men like you would understand better.**

maternal:


I'm usually right. lol. But seriously, I hope you find a way to migrate. The chance of finding a guy like guitarlife won't drastically reduce if you come to the west (Canada/US), it will be eliminated. Guitar is just forming for this thread, and he knows he has no real power in Canada. The second he shows any signs of aggression, all she has to do is call 911, police will come with their guns and he'll be sitting in jail within an hour. The sec he says "divorce is out of the question", she'll file for divorce. After the judge splits the assets 50/50, he'll have to get a second job to help pay his child support bills on top of his regular bills. Because the gov't will automatically take it out of his pay. And if he can't make them ? Na jail be that. The man is making mouth. Here in Canada he'll be kissing his wifes asss begging her not to leave. I have an uncle worse than him and he refuses to bring his wife to Canada. According to him she'd "finish him here in Canada". He's legit scared that she'll have certain powers she could only dream off in naija. They've been "married" for 8 years now. Guitar is just talking nonsense trust me. There's actually a good article on this.



https://www.newtelegraphng.com/2018/06/why-nigerian-husbands-kill-wives-in-us-investigation/

Just curious, are you encouraging her to continue deceiving her husband till they get to Canada and then file for a divorce?

You have really just heard her own side(one side) of the story.
While there are tons of good women out there, others are very manipulative.

If she wasn't going to be submissive later on why pretend to the man just to get married only to start crying about submission later on. Maybe he is quite rich.
Maybe she doesn't find him attractive anymore and all this is just an excuse to dump him after leaving the shores.

While we all have very different views about family life, I frankly believe it's important to define terms and know your spouse before tie in any knots.

mikkyphp:
Negotiate for what works for you. A recipe for discontentment and depression is agreeing to a position that goes against what you stand for - your values.

This is my point exactly to Zutlin post.