LadunaI:
^^^ @emp.iree

Ok thanks. I get this now. I will try and find out more about Sheikh Imran, seems you're fond of quoting him lol.

reason is because he's well informed Islamically, socially, philosophically and politically. And he doesn't believe Quran is static unlike some scholars who keep quoting medieval tasfsir and keep repeating themselves in cycle without moving forward.

Empiree is a waliyillah. Am sorry to say this but I must confess, he is a man of God.



Hello sir I really don't know u but Allah know you. You really surprised me and may Allah surprise you with his blessing and mercy. You will forever not lack in your life and in hereafter, May all your good deeds be accepted by Almighty Allah and all your sin be forgiven. Am in tears that people of your like rare in this world and am envious to be like you. بالفعل ، أنت ولي الله وجزاك الله خير

Empiree:
reason is because he's well informed Islamically, socially, philosophically and politically. And he doesn't believe Quran is static unlike some scholars who keep quoting medieval tasfsir and keep repeating themselves in cycle without moving forward.

Empiree is a waliyillah. Am sorry to say this but I must confess, he is a man of God.



Hello sir I really don't know u but Allah know you. You really surprised me and may Allah surprise you with his blessing and mercy. You will forever not lack in your life and in hereafter, May all your good deeds be accepted by Almighty Allah and all your sin be forgiven. Am in tears that people of your like rare in this world and am envious to be like you. بالفعل ، أنت ولي الله وجزاك الله خير

ladkud:





Empiree is a waliyillah. Am sorry to say this but I must confess, he is a man of God.



Hello sir I really don't know u but Allah know you. You really surprised me and may Allah surprise you with his blessing and mercy. You will forever not lack in your life and in hereafter, May all your good deeds be accepted by Almighty Allah and all your sin be forgiven. Am in tears that people of your like rare in this world and am envious to be like you. بالفعل ، أنت ولي الله وجزاك الله خير

Amin. Yes, He's an exemplary of Good MODEL! . May Allah reward him abundantly.

Rasulullah(saw) said:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Obligatory Charity Tax (Zakat)
Book 24, Hadith 13
Narrated 'Ibn Mas`ud:
I heard the Prophet (pbuh) saying, "There is no envy except in two: a person whom Allah has given wealth and he spends it in the right way, and a person whom Allah has given wisdom (i.e. religious knowledge) and he gives his decisions accordingly and teaches it to the others."

LadunaI:

Salaam alaikum. When you get chance please read these articles. Life is truly a lesson. This is what I was talking about last yr about CI, AP etc

http://yousefalkhattab..com/2017/05/islam-is-my-only-identity-i-say-it.html?m=1


https://www.counterextremism.com/extremists/jesse-morton

https://newrepublic.com/article/145433/only-human-american-ex-jihadi-rebuild-life-country-once-vowed-destroy


Just a quick note. I know those brothers but not active member. I didn't know a lot has happened to since they were dismantled in 2010/11 but I know free of them were jailed. I stumbled on these articles last night and decided to share. You can also watch the other guy who cooperated on YouTube (few mins). Let know me know what you think after reading them.

Empiree:
Salaam alaikum. When you get chance please read these articles. Life is truly a lesson. This is what I was talking about last yr about CI, AP etc

http://yousefalkhattab..com/2017/05/islam-is-my-only-identity-i-say-it.html?m=1


https://www.counterextremism.com/extremists/jesse-morton

https://newrepublic.com/article/145433/only-human-american-ex-jihadi-rebuild-life-country-once-vowed-destroy


Just a quick note. I know those brothers but not active member. I didn't know a lot has happened to since they were dismantled in 2010/11 but I know free of them were jailed. I stumbled on these articles last night and decided to share. You can also watch the other guy who cooperated on YouTube (few mins). Let know me know what you think after reading them.

Uhmmm interesting articles, truly there is a lot to learn from their stories. But what I haven't understand with many of brothers in the west is that MUST you be radical Muslim before making any meaningful impact for Islam?

The life of Holy Prophet (saw) was repletes with many heart melting stories that if we engage in that form of jihad, the world would be better for it. Somebody would has been nursing hatred for holy Prophet(saw) for a long time and would sudden ,developed love for him (saw), so much to the extent that he(saw) becomes their greatest love just because of his(saw) conduct and unparalleled character!.

I once have a close contact with Sheikh Faisal when he came down to indoor sport hall in Ilorin for a talk which I attended. I can sense with the way they put forth quranic verses in support of their views. I learnt a lot from his lecture that day, though while pruning some extreme view from my perspective.

Is been long I heard about Sheikh Faisal, is he still in jail in the UK? This Jesse Morten is still practicing Islam till now? I am happy for for him to have renounced radicalism and become more moderate muslim of Ummattan Wasattan ( middle and moderate ummah).

Happy EID ADHA in advance, May Allah spare our lifes. Amin

LadunaI:


Uhmmm interesting articles, truly there is a lot to learn from their stories. But what I haven't understand with many of brothers in the west is that MUST you be radical Muslim before making any meaningful impact for Islam?

The life of Holy Prophet (saw) was repletes with many heart melting stories that if we engage in that form of jihad, the world would be better for it. Somebody would has been nursing hatred for holy Prophet(saw) for a long time and would sudden ,developed love for him (saw), so much to the extent that he(saw) becomes their greatest love just because of his(saw) conduct and unparalleled character!.

I once have a close contact with Sheikh Faisal when he came down to indoor sport hall in Ilorin for a talk which I attended. I can sense with the way they put forth quranic verses in support of their views. I learnt a lot from his lecture that day, though while pruning some extreme view from my perspective.

Is been long I heard about Sheikh Faisal, is he still in jail in the UK? This Jesse Morten is still practicing Islam till now? I am happy for for him to have renounced radicalism and become more moderate muslim of Ummattan Wasattan ( middle and moderate ummah).

Happy EID ADHA in advance, May Allah spare our lifes. Amin

sheikh Faisal was out of jail since 2008 and deported to Jamaica. That's when he debated Christian apologist, Bishop Ade Gold.


Well, West contributed to their extremist views for obvious reasons. No conscious Muslim would see what happened in Iraq back in 2006-08 would not be upset but this is not excuse to be extremists. I hate to talk about those guys for security reason but it is interesting knowing folks known to govt. I was not their member but I saw them several times at main masjid in NYC preaching outside there. But many muslims were skeptical of them because of the way they preached.

They had the zeal and passion for Islam but they have limited knowledge and lacked proper manhaj. I never personally accused them off being spies as some muslims did. What really baffles now me is Jesse. I remembered when he was released from jail and he released a video wearing keffiyeh and looking frail. Thank God I didn't comment on that video. I didn't suspect anything then until 2 days ago when I stumbled on the article. The video was basically orchestrated by feds to screen comments. At that point Jesse was basically informant because he didn't want to serve time in jail. But Yousef served his.


I remembered Jesse called my house phone one afternoon when I was at work and I can remembered his voice left on my phone. I don't know how he got it. This is why fed thought I was their member when they interviewed me in a 2011. They monitored everyone who visited their website. I barely visited actually. I just read their grievances and moved on. When Yousef renounced the group he was called by his partners "munafiq". But Jesse actually sounds more like that to me for entrapping others for money and his freedom like I was saying last yr. He needs to make tawbah for that. He's still muslim according to the article but he now married to a Jewish lady from Spain and divorced his ex wife who is muslim with kids.

Lesson learned: when I was reading the article a Hadith came to mind where Nabi (saw) said extremism only leads to destruction. That's exactly what happened to these guys. Although, they did speak truths in many cases but their approach was wrong just like saheed shittu is doing now. They definitely were against Saudi Salafis as they used to call them. Yousef Khattab, after renouncing pseudo salafism, said he would now lean towards traditional Islam and learn more from Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi whom they hated before or thought was misguided.


They have gone through their tests and trials. They have learned now. The best way not to be govt stooge is to not commit crime needless to say getting convicted. This gives feds leverage to use you. It takes taqwa to go solo and serve your time without getting others in trouble. Who would not take such offer if made available?. This is what the so called puritans do. They are only vocal and piety on the outside but they are empty on the inside when they get in trouble. At least most but not all. I even boarded train with Jesse one rush hour Monday in 2010 while he was sipping coffee.. These articles really remind me of 2012-2013. I didn't know a lot happened with them. I was only worried about myself and those CI & AP after me upandown. That was terrible.


But if you listen to this type of thing below you will see reasons why extremism isn't going away. This is why I think Jesse and the likes aren't gonna get over their previous approach forever so long as the causes are there. If he did there are others out there seeing things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7q-71J8Exw

^^^@Empiree
This is serious, so you're so 'close' to them especially Jesse? Lol. I know is because of your concern and research into Deen that seems to make you to have got close to that extent. I can see the premise while Feds are trailing you then upandan.

For Jesse to have called you then means is trying to lure you as he did for Elsann that taxi driver who he
eventually handed over to Fed's along with his companion in that article.

No matter the persecution now, holy Prophet (saw) faced more persecution and injustice, but he exemplified a good model for us to emulate. Because extremist would always have rough end.

Infact no any Muslims would see the destructions that visited Iraq then, that wouldn't be angry and also recently happenings in Syria, it really sickening.

Is sheikh fiscal still preaching in Jamaica? It seems his influence has been greatly curtailed after been sent I out of the UK.

I will check.those.videos properly..

LadunaI:
^^^@Emp.iree
This is serious, so you're so 'close' to them especially Jesse? Lol. I know is because of your concern and research into Deen that seems to make you to have got close to that extent. I can see the premise while Feds are trailing you then upandan.For Jesse to have called you then means is trying to lure you as he did for Elsann that taxi driver who he
eventually handed over to Fed's along with his companion in that article.

Believe me, I probably know the Deen more than them. They were just converts around that time while I have been concious practicing Muslim all my life. They were basically more political than religious. That was the reason they caught attention of the feds. I wasn't really trying to learn the Deen from them. They were all about refuting this and that. I watched them closely. For instance one jummah, both Jesse and Yousef were just talking during khutba yet, they professed their manhaj to be Quran "kitab and sunnah". Aren't they supposed to mute during khutba?. I asked myself.

They were sitting next to me that day. They were basically talking about their mission to get the masjid condemn the govt for its involvement in the ME which the committee repeatedly rejected and called police for them numerous times. And I also believe that at that time they were not trying to lure folks to entrap them but they were seeking members for their dawah cause. To be honest, there were Americans who embraced Islam through them as well.

No matter the persecution now, holy Prophet (saw) faced more persecution and injustice, but he exemplified a good model for us to emulate. Because extremist would always have rough end.

that's it.

Infact no any Muslims would see the destructions that visited Iraq then, that wouldn't be angry and also recently happenings in Syria, it really sickening.

really sickening, I swear.

Is sheikh fiscal still preaching in Jamaica? It seems his influence has been greatly curtailed after been sent I out of the UK.

I will check.those.videos properly..

I believe so but I can't be certain. But definitely he's curtailed.

Empiree:
Believe me, I probably know the Deen more than them. They were just converts around that time while I have been concious practicing Muslim all my life. They were basically more political than religious. That was the reason they caught attention of the feds. I wasn't really trying to learn the Deen from them. They were all about refuting this and that. I watched them closely. For instance one jummah, both Jesse and Yousef were just talking during khutba yet, they professed their manhaj to be Quran "kitab and sunnah". Aren't they supposed to mute during khutba?. I asked myself.

They were sitting next to me that day. They were basically talking about their mission to get the masjid condemn the govt for its involvement in the ME which the committee repeatedly rejected and called police for them numerous times. And I also believe that at that time they were not trying to lure folks to entrap them but they were seeking members for their dawah cause. To be honest, there were Americans who embraced Islam through them as well.




that's it.



really sickening, I swear.



I believe so but I can't be certain. But definitely he's curtailed.

I found this on the YouTube about Jesse Morton


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1oD4zUpf6E

LadunaI:

I found this on the YouTube about Jesse Morton

Yes, i just watched this 3 days ago. He is shaved. You should see his old self back in 2007-20011

nobody seeing angels again ni??

Dreydoe:
nobody seeing angels again ni??

tell us yours

Empiree:
tell us yours

LOL... am not seeing any angels oo.

I only have dreams once in a while dt happens in real life later on closely how i dreamt.. in fact to close.


dts all.....

Dreydoe:


LOL... am not seeing any angels oo.

I only have dreams once in a while dt happens in real life later on closely how i dreamt.. in fact to close.


dts all.....

Is not bad sharing that as well. They revolve around the same experience. We would like to read that.

Exactly a year ago today {Sept 9, 2017} since Ikupakuti disappeared from NL. I just hope he is okay wherever he is.

LadunaI,

I came across this video of Dr. Bilal. It is sad but it is reality. I said it last year that muslims need to revive islamic spirituality in its true essence. They can't be tagging everything bid'a. If i understood this lecture very well, Dr, Bilal philips said traditional islam makes muslims especially the young ones feel sense of connection with islam. This video is all about many young people are living islam (at least in Canada) but he doesn't restrict to Canada.

Maybe they can see gradually that their approach (literal interpretation devoid of spirituality) is not helping. Remember back in the day, masajid were filled up with children on average days. But today, due to condemnation or tagging everything innovation is causing real side effect. If you go to many mosques in the US/canada, most of their halaqa only involve adult lectures. You hardly find children except those African and Asian subcontinent masajid who still hold on to traditional approach like group dhikr and group dua after each salah. They organize sunday as-salatu like they do in nigeria. But these puritans see them as alhubida.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs&t=581s

Empiree:
Exactly a year ago today {Sept 9, 2017} since Ikupakuti disappeared from NL. I just hope he is okay wherever he is.

Alhamdulilah that we are still existing. We pray almighty Allah to protect him and be with him wherever he is. I do check his profile to see if there is any changes, perhaps login without making comment, but nothing for past one year now.

I do wish at time to have get more info about him to have enable me to further search for him, but alas! no such details. Anyhow we pray he resurface hale and hearty soon Insha ALLAH.

He is such one of luminaries here. We missed his contributions deeply.

Empiree:
LadunaI,

I came across this video of Dr. Bilal. It is sad but it is reality. I said it last year that muslims need to revive islamic spirituality in its true essence. They can't be tagging everything bid'a. If i understood this lecture very well, Dr, Bilal philips said traditional islam makes muslims especially the young ones feel sense of connection with islam. This video is all about many young people are living islam (at least in Canada) but he doesn't restrict to Canada.

Maybe they can see gradually that their approach (literal interpretation devoid of spirituality) is not helping. Remember back in the day, masajid were filled up with children on average days. But today, due to condemnation or tagging everything innovation is causing real side effect. If you go to many mosques in the US/canada, most of their halaqa only involve adult lectures. You hardly find children except those African and Asian subcontinent masajid who still hold on to traditional approach like group dhikr and group dua after each salah. They organize sunday as-salatu like they do in nigeria. But these puritans see them as alhubida.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs&t=581s

You see, once Islam is divorce from its essence (Ihsan) then the disconnection would always present itself.

I hope and pray, most of contemporary scholars would see reason(s ) , and find it expedient to preach what is important, and of far reaching consequences than sectarian palaver. Once the true goal (ihsan)cannot be adequately factor into the equation of much touted Islamic teaching as presented by 'puritans' now a days, then the gulf will set in, and that will continue to bring discordant we were experience in Islam today all over especially in the WEST.

I will watch the video in details. Thanks

Empiree:
LadunaI,

I came across this video of Dr. Bilal. It is sad but it is reality. I said it last year that muslims need to revive islamic spirituality in its true essence. They can't be tagging everything bid'a. If i understood this lecture very well, Dr, Bilal philips said traditional islam makes muslims especially the young ones feel sense of connection with islam. This video is all about many young people are living islam (at least in Canada) but he doesn't restrict to Canada.

Maybe they can see gradually that their approach (literal interpretation devoid of spirituality) is not helping. Remember back in the day, masajid were filled up with children on average days. But today, due to condemnation or tagging everything innovation is causing real side effect. If you go to many mosques in the US/canada, most of their halaqa only involve adult lectures. You hardly find children except those African and Asian subcontinent masajid who still hold on to traditional approach like group dhikr and group dua after each salah. They organize sunday as-salatu like they do in nigeria. But these puritans see them as alhubida.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs&t=581s

As Bilal Phillips changed his ignorant fundamental ways? He's a wahabi machine psycho. Perhaps he has come to his senses like Yasir Qadhi.

AlBaqir:


As Bilal Phillips changed his ignorant fundamental ways? He's a wahabi machine psycho. Perhaps he has come to his senses like Yasir Qadhi.

I doubt

Empiree:
I doubt

I have watched that video cli in detail, and must tell you he has spoken well. I had benefited from that nasiha.

I believe this sort of things happens to us all, but with variance in degree. How do I mean. You will find yourself sometimes with very strong iman; performing all sort of IBADAH to please Allah, and all of sudden become weak at times. But listen to preaching always bring us back on tract and more devoted than we once exhibited. That's is why Allah(swt) says in the Qur'an; "Remind for REMINDERs benefit the believers".

The only thing is that when those people in question slips, they might find it difficult to reestablish because of severe "disconnection" they suffered, couple with societal challenges that seems to dragged them further into misguidance. Unlike us here that had a culture rooted in Islamic value as safety net.

Also, I think the contributory factor might be, as you alluded to, the way Islam is been preached these days with their rigid approach to everything. Because if the essence is been made OBVIOUS (I mean Islamic Spirituality) at the onset, then whatever the challenge there will always be that conviction that going back to ALLAH is the solution, rather deserting Him.

LadunaI:

I....

what's your take on awuyewuye in Nigeria about Ogun sise and njé anobi so'ogun?. Many are kinda confused.

There are section of Muslims who believe ogun(both for charm & iwosan) exist. There are oppositions who believe ogun(iwosan) is okay but ogun( charm whether Haram or halal) don't exist and are not acceptable in Islam.

Where Do You Stand On This?

this thread is a thread of reawakening ..the spiritualities of islam might be lost by muslim due to the wahabi preaching of these modern scholars i just join this thread this month but it has stregthen my spiritual wellbeing all thanks to ikupakuti, emekaraj, empiree, ladunai etc for bringing my thought on track jazakumulahu khairan

Empiree:
what's your take on awuyewuye in Nigeria about Ogun sise and njé anobi so'ogun?. Many are kinda confused.

There are section of Muslims who believe ogun(both for charm & iwosan) exist. There are oppositions who believe ogun(iwosan) is okay but ogun( charm whether Haram or halal) don't exist and are not acceptable in Islam.

Where Do You Stand On This?

Interesting question lol. Firstly, I would like to say that this often reflect our Iman to some extent, I will explain later. From various anecdotes from life of Holy Prophet, we can gleaned various ways in which disease are cured, and how we should approach it.

Holy Prophet (saw) said there is no any disease which Allah has NOT created its CURE. This shows that there is indeed ogun(iwosan) in Islam with many examples of power of the likes of black cumin, Abasat saoda etc prescribed or mentioned in various ahadith, and by extension some of leaves or herbs that thru continuous research people have have found their efficacy against certain diseases, all these I believed is permissible within Islam provided that such things does NOT contain something implicitly or explicitly forbidden by ISLAM.

In addition, recitation of Ayat Of Qur'an as Rukyah to ward off certain pains, evils etc is also ogun(iwosan) to us as Muslims which I believed in.

However, the concept of ogun(charm and amulet) I don't believe in this, because holy Prophet explicitly forbidden it. This is because, most times, this contain not only haram substances but also brings some sort of Reliance on such things as against relying on ALLAH. Even in a situation where such charm is been prepare using Quranic verses is still frown@/forbidden because of that element of Reliance on such thing.

And this brings me to first assertion that is a reflection of our iman at times from my own perspective, because as we developed in spirituality the less we give precedence to all these things safe PRAYER!!!. The life of Holy Prophet(saw) showed us this. And I was particularly influenced when I read the anecdotes of Hadrat Uways(ra). The Holy Prophet(saw) said that when describing him that he had leprosy, but he prayed to Allah(swt) and he was cured of it safe a little spot like a coin. Remember, this is the one (Uways) refers to as the BEST of Tabiuns. I believe there many instances which buttress this point from life of Sahabas and Awliya.

So what is your take?

LadunaI:



And this brings me to first assertion that is a reflection of our iman at times from my own perspective, because as we developed in spirituality the less we give precedence to all these things safe PRAYER!!!. The life of Holy Prophet(saw) showed us this. And I was particularly influenced when I read the anecdotes of Hadrat Uways. The Holy Prophet(saw) said that when describing him that he had leprosy, but he prayed to Allah(swt) and he was cured of it safe a little spot like a coin. And this one refers to as the BEST of Tabiuns. I believe there many instances which buttress this point from life of Sahabas and Awliya.

So what is your take?

See bold, that's the point. The more we grow spiritually the less we give those things preference. This is very true. You are in support of my position basically.

But then, we have instances where some people need help and they are not nearby for immediate assistance,
and certain things may be devised to reach them.

From the point of view of those in support of ogun ( both charm and iwosan) moderately, they cited nature of Yorubaland as exception. That Arabia used to be like that (that's, prevalent of evil people). Therefore, since Allah gave Yoruba people their ways of dealing with them, there is no harm in it so long it doesn't involves shirk and Haram things.

I think I briefly narrated story of a family friend few years ago in Jinn Stories thread by tbaba. That incident was reality beyond literally reading books. Solution to his problems required practical approach from Yorubaland because these folks chasing him came from Yorubaland as well. "The occult world"

His story convinced me that nkan be labe sanmo (many strange things beyond average humans comprehension exist beneath the earth). As you rightly said, besides recommended antidotes by nabi(saw). We know more base on further researches.

I will like to point out two well known shuyukh: one is alive. One already passed. Both of them said same thing about ogun. I think you should watch them on YouTube. You don't need to watch the whole videos.

Watch sheikh Rabiu Adebayo titled Esin Ko ni Kama S'oogun watch from probably the first 20mins

Watch sheikh Muhammad Mustafa Ashile(ra) titled Odu Ifa. Watch from 5mins to 20mins. I will urge you to watch the videos first before you reply.

They were not critisized then actually but a guy in London recently critisized sheikh rabiu on it. But I don't take him serious anyway because of his foul mouth approach.


I believe that ogun nbe (good and bad). Ogun buruku that work by God's permission. And identical sihr are in the Qur'an to counter them (will tell you this experience if you want with regards to *** family in Lagos/osun states). And Yoruba and Islam have ways of dealing with them according to some Alfa so long it doesn't involve shirk or Haram elements. But piority is given to Islam. As for the man (in NY) I'm talking about I may talk about him later.

One Uztas recently quoted verse of Quran where Allah condemned the Jews for practicing sihr that shaytan gave them, which is usually quoted by those who condemn ogun charm. From within the Ayah, Uztas deduced "evidence" of legal charm brought down by malaikat. But I'm trying to figure it out. Maybe you can.

The Ayah is Baqarah 102. This ayah is used to condemn charm and at the same time used to deduce halal charm. I don't know if it is proper to use the phrase underlined.

YUNGCONCEPT11:
this thread is a thread of reawakening ..the spiritualities of islam might be lost by muslim due to the wahabi preaching of these modern scholars i just join this thread this month but it has stregthen my spiritual wellbeing all thanks to ikupakuti, emekaraj, empiree, ladunai etc for bringing my thought on track jazakumulahu khairan

u welcome

LadunaI:

I have watched that video cli in detail, and must tell you he has spoken well. I had benefited from that nasiha.

I believe this sort of things happens to us all, but with variance in degree. How do I mean. You will find yourself sometimes with very strong iman; performing all sort of IBADAH to please Allah, and all of sudden become weak at times. But listen to preaching always bring us back on tract and more devoted than we once exhibited. That's is why Allah(swt) says in the Qur'an; "Remind for REMINDERs benefit the believers".

The only thing is that when those people in question slips, they might find it difficult to reestablish because of severe "disconnection" they suffered, couple with societal challenges that seems to dragged them further into misguidance. Unlike us here that had a culture rooted in Islamic value as safety net.

Also, I think the contributory factor might be, as you alluded to, the way Islam is been preached these days with their rigid approach to everything. Because if the essence is been made OBVIOUS (I mean Islamic Spirituality) at the onset, then whatever the challenge there will always be that conviction that going back to ALLAH is the solution, rather deserting Him.

Look at this happening under our nose. What Dr. Bilal Philips was saying in that video about Canadian Muslim youths

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/nigeria-undercover-atheists-words-180917212711132.html

The ones in Canada came out in the open due to the so called free society. The ones in Nigeria go undercover due to possible backlashes

Empiree:


But then, we have instances where some people need help and they are not nearby for immediate assistance, and certain things may be devised to reach them.
.

Like what really?. I believe one can pray for anyone anywhere in the world, and if the du'a is accepted the effect will reach the fellow.

Empiree:


From the point of view of those in support of ogun ( both charm and iwosan) moderately, they cited nature of Yorubaland as exception. That Arabia used to be like that (that's, prevalent of evil people). Therefore, since Allah gave Yoruba people their ways of dealing with them, there is no harm in it so long it doesn't involves shirk and Haram things.

I think I briefly narrated story of a family friend few years ago in Jinn Stories thread by tbaba. That incident was reality beyond literally reading books. Solution to his problems required practical approach from Yorubaland because these folks chasing him came from Yorubaland as well. "The occult world"
.

Yeah, if the treatment does not involve shirk and any haram things, it may be permissible. But one have to be very care full with all these things, because one can easily fall into shirk with it. Take for instance, ogun for protection or ayéta, even if the material use are NOT haram, it will involve relying on this thing which will invite shirk. If the treatment is meant for bodily disease then this might be ranked along side normal drugs and the danger might be less.

Can you share more details about the story so that we can learn from it. Why the solution had to be domesticated?

Empiree:


I will like to point out two well known shuyukh: one is alive. One already passed. Both of them said same thing about ogun. I think you should watch them on YouTube. You don't need to watch the whole videos.

Watch sheikh Rabiu Adebayo titled Esin Ko ni Kama S'oogun watch from probably the first 20mins

Watch sheikh Muhammad Mustafa Ashile(ra) titled Odu Ifa. Watch from 5mins to 20mins. I will urge you to watch the videos first before you reply

I have watched both clips, well from my assessment they didn't make proper dichotomy about the o gun they were talking about ( either iwosan or charm). But from what I gleaned from it, it seems they are talking much about spiritual warfare, which I believe largely that can be repelled with Qur'an and strong Iman occasioned by constant du'a and takwah.

Had it been they break it down well, it would have been nice.

Empiree:


I believe that ogun nbe (good and bad). Ogun buruku that work by God's permission. And identical sihr are in the Qur'an to counter them (will tell you this experience if you want with regards to ogedengbe family in Lagos/osun states). And Yoruba and Islam have ways of dealing with them according to some Alfa so long it doesn't involve shirk or Haram elements. But piority is given to Islam. As for the man (in NY) I'm talking about I may talk about him later.
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No doubt, Ogun nbe fun a won ti o man lilo ré, is Holy Prophet(saw) not temporary affected by the spell casted on him by one jew woman?but Muwadhathain was revealed, and holy Prophet(saw) only recited it, and each knot of the charm was broken.

Pls share further that man story in NY.

Empiree:


One Uztas recently quoted verse of Quran where Allah condemned the Jews for practicing sihr that shaytan gave them, which is usually quoted by those who condemn ogun charm. From within the Ayah, Uztas deduced "evidence" of legal charm brought down by malaikat. But I'm trying to figure it out. Maybe you can.

The Ayah is Baqarah 102. This ayah is used to condemn charm and at the same time used to deduce halal charm. I don't know if it is proper to use the phrase underlined.

How? This verse specifically condemned the use of sihr, I don't see any evidence that point toward that make it halal. I believe, sometimes in eyes of carpenter with hammer, everybody look like nail lol.

Empiree:
Look at this happening under our nose. What Dr. Bilal Philips was saying in that video about Canadian Muslim youths

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/nigeria-undercover-atheists-words-180917212711132.html

The ones in Canada came out in the open due to the so called free society. The ones in Nigeria go undercover due to possible backlashes

Yes, this phenomenon happen everywhere like I said earlier, is just that in the WEST- free society, such is given impetus, and condition for it thrive and blossom to full atheism. Homosexual, lesbianism etc are NOT only peculiar to the WEST,also happen elsewhere, but the good news is that such evils is not allow to fester by government unlike west, hence curtailed infesting others. And that what Dr Bilal refers as safety net in that video.

LadunaI:


Yes, this phenomenon happen everywhere like I said earlier, is just that in the WEST- free society, such is given impetus, and condition for it thrive and blossom to full atheism. Homosexual, lesbianism etc are NOT only peculiar to the WEST,also happen elsewhere, but the good news is that such evils is not allow to fester by government unlike west, hence curtailed infesting others. And that what Dr Bilal refers as safety net in that video.

yes, that safety net is what is being attacked by world power. They demonize govts that curtail such activities as been dictators that prevent its citizens from freedom. They use "freedoms" to champion their cause. You could see that btw Jonathan and Obama and mugabe. See how they resisted Obama.

LadunaI:

Like what really?. I believe one can pray for anyone anywhere in the world, and if the du'a is accepted the effect will reach the fellow.

Yes, prayers. And once it is accepted, the rest is peanut. But, there is always BUT. That 'but' is the religious background of the subject. Thats where problem lies.

Yeah, if the treatment does not involve shirk and any haram things, it may be permissible. But one have to be very care full with all these things, because one can easily fall into shirk with it. Take for instance, ogun for protection or ayéta, even if the material use are NOT haram, it will involve relying on this thing which will invite shirk. If the treatment is meant for bodily disease then this might be ranked along side normal drugs and the danger might be less.

Yes, true. No objection. When some of those baba used to do something like ayéta (if at all they did it), they gave no preference to it. They would say Allah did it instead of making direct reference to whatever they used. This is what modern alfas are lacking. They rather boast about charm. I don't support this even if it is halal. Reminds me of my years in ilorin. I was listening to Ali Agan when he narrated incident that just happened few days earlier to a friend of his who is a Muslim. He was attacked and robbed at gunpoint. When he didn't give up his cash, they shot him but the bullets did not penetrate. Both Ali Agan and his friend referred back to Allah rather than making reference to whatever ayeta he used. Although Ali Agan didn't say he used ayeta. He simply said "ibon ko ran won... Ola Olohun ni"

Can you share more details about the story so that we can learn from it. Why the solution had to be domesticated?

in Sha Allah, I will. This will now bring us back to my first comment about "BUT" I made up there. It is a little complex and I will break it down as soon as I'm chanced.

I have watched both clips, well from my assessment they didn't make proper dichotomy about the o gun they were talking about ( either iwosan or charm). But from what I gleaned from it, it seems they are talking much about spiritual warfare, which I believe largely that can be repelled with Qur'an and strong Iman occasioned by constant du'a and takwah.

thought as much. I definitely knew they were talking about spiritual warfare.

Had it been they break it down well, it would have been nice.

that's why it was better to be quiet until one confirms directly from them rather than being judgemental like a guy in UK did. But sheikh clearly said "ewe ati egbo" and oruko Olohun. But then, in this day and age, it is much better to let muslims, especially young ones steer clear from it because there is so much lack of iklas these days unlike back in the days.

No doubt, Ogun nbe fun a won ti o man lilo ré, is Holy Prophet(saw) not temporary affected by the spell casted on him by one jew woman?but Muwadhathain was revealed, and holy Prophet(saw) only recited it, and each knot of the charm was broken.

As much as I used to believe in this narration, I begin to doubt it as I read details of it in recent time due to puritans approach. The way you briefed here makes sense but if you read details from Imam Hamad ibn Hambali (ra), I doubt it because it might have impacted on wahi which evangelical Christians used to mock.

Sahih bukhari record says sihr lasted for "so so so period of time". Imam Hamad recorded that so so so period of time mentioned by imam bukhari(ra) that sihr lasted on him (saw) was six (6) months . This is why Sheikh Habeeb ilory discarded the hadith as blasphemy and fake.

Pls share further that man story in NY.

in Sha Allah

How? This verse specifically condemned the use of sihr, I don't see any evidence that point toward that make it halal. I believe, sometimes in eyes of carpenter with hammer, everybody look like nail lol.

I'm trying to figure it out too. No, he didn't say the verse makes sihr halal but he tried to say the verse speaks about sihr which shaytan gave yahud but at the same time the Angels also came down with something similar in appearance but different in essence. He didn't detail bcus it was just a brief discussion between him and someone else on the use of medical benefits of frog.

Sihr is HARAM even if it has no Haram elements. A Muslim should not do it even if he knows how. He should always practice self restraint. Sihr are in the Qur'an that Muslims can use to deal with someone that tresspasses you but it is still Haram for the fact that you deal with someone that's why both shuyukh I mentioned to you warned to not do it even if it is Qur'an. Even making dua by specifically mentioning name of individual that God should deal and punish the person is considered "asaasi". This is considered Haram too. But if a Muslim does it, we should not critisize him if it is once in a while or just one time because we don't know what happened. We should not call him kafir because of that.

So I will tell you that we did this back then in the 90s to deal with someone and that was it and we made istgfar afterwards. Niyah is very important. I'm not talking about istgfar you make with your fingers by 10 counts. I'm talking about sitting down and doing istgfar 70k for the wrong done even though we did it to curb someone excesses.

So despite the use of Quran to inflict pain on someone, it is ogun too. This is what I'm trying to tell you about halal charm but I don't know if I phrased it properly. I wish ikupakuti is here to enlighten us. So I believe that it is better to use the one in the Qur'an than going to alawo. There are positives and negatives sihr in the Qur'an. It depends on how folks understand and approach it. Everything is not just peace peace and peace with criminals. Deal with them once is a while to prove to them power of Quran. We did this on oge back then when he crossed the line

This type of thing is kept in private life. I'm telling now because it is now history. I may tell you about og later too.