I GUESS CHURCH BUSINESS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS,

Those churches are very persuasive. I once attended a service where the pastor challenged everyone to give all they had. Everything! God was supposed to outdo himself and work a miracle to get them home.
People dropped their transport fares into the tray. It was funny. people will listen to their pastors even when he makes no sense.

[sarcasm]
Cheques are so 2000s. They should install ATM machines and ask parishoners to bring their debit and credit cards at all times.

That way they can ensure payment is instantaneous, not those checks that can bounce.
[/sarcasm]

Its so sad that God's house is being used to desicrate God's Name. I understand daily why He says judgement will start from His own House.

Nigerians and Christians all around the world must understand that what God seeks first is salvation for our souls. His aim is to take us to heaven. God is not a magician. You may own the whole world and lose your soul. What does it profit you?

I am not against being rich or making money. However, I am totally against everyday prosperity teachings and all these modern day 'signs and wonders'. Are we not ashamed that we have a church on almost every street in Nigeria yet our country gets worse by the day? Are our churches not seeing the dilapidated schools and students and pupils learning from under trees? Is there nothing we can do with all the money we are getting except to build giagiantic mansions? Remember the church is not in the building, the church is the very man himself. If we spend all our money decorating and expanding the building, and we can't affect our society, shame on us.

say-d-fact:

I GUESS CHURCH BUSINESS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS,

You remain a fool, don't u know the seriousness of gospel of Christ?

PurestBoy:

You remain a fool, don't u know the seriousness of gospel of Christ?

FOOL? I ACCEPT, BUT U SEEMS TO 4GET WAT UR BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THE END TIME AND ABOUT CALLING SM1 A FOOL, U'RE BLESSED DUDE,

COOL
Nigerians have proven themselves to be greater fools. "Touch not" ko "Touch not" ni! WTF? And people claim we are suffering in this country!? We probably are smiling along.
poster, please make do to mention names. I'll do that for ya anyways, as far as my limited knowledge of nigeria's religious environment allows. NEvertheless, they all are thieves and can be grouped into one

From poster:

We watched as the focus shifted from an intercession to save our nation from final collapse to a grandiose scramble for the same old ‘root of all evils’, money. Pastors who had tasted the pleasures and comfort of the elite class by virtue of their headship of various churches and the unhindered assess it gave them to the common wealth of their congregation sustained their position by spreading a new gospel of prosperity, devising new methods of expanding their followership and squeezing out more money from them (Olukoya of MFN: ass.h.ol.e)

We have today therefore, mega rich, celebrity, Super star, stage con-artists parading in the name of Men of God (Pastor Oyakhilome: pu.nk-haired-funny-american-pi.g he.ad of Christ Embassy) . They move in long convoys (same ol' boy and Chris Okotie: stin.king SOB.i.t.ch of House of God). They establish Universities and colleges which most of their members can not afford to send their kids to[i] (practically all o' em but most especially Oyedepo of bleeping winners: big.headed-nosy- con.man)[/i]. They dress in cloths bought off boutiques were Hollywood celebrities shop (all o' em surely). They speak with cultivated accents[i] (same ol' pu.nk haired guy)[/i]. They own conglomerates[i] (all o' em maybe, but particularly as.s.ho.le Ashimolowo of KCCG)[/i]. They cruise round the world[i] (seemingly quiet but sick.head pastor Adeboye of diseased christian church of god)[/i]. Only recently while the nation and indeed the world moaned under the weight of the Global Melt down with many losing their jobs and Government cutting down on spending, one of them chose it as the best time to announce the purchase of his personal jet bought at an amount that could make a dead man shiver in the grave (don't know this one, but could be same ol' sick.head).

I have left out piggy.head-prophesy-hurling marcher Tunde Bakare, di.r.ty-bearded-stammering-fu(khead Joshua of the (in)famous Synagogue, and many others. But that's not because they arne't a.s.s.e.s, but only because I can keep them names in ma head.
Now y'll can get all crazy about this post, if you will.

Why!!! My post!!!

stop saying what you don't know.Don't play with God's anointed cos it is dangerous

LMFAO @ Topic

@kunle: calin pastor oyakilome a crook is as good as using your silly tongue 2 curse your generation. @poster: you may feel unconfortable with the pastors admin ethics. But God uses d foolishnes of preachin 2 work miracles. It was d faith of d woman of d issue of blood dat made her whole n not what jesus prayed same as naman in elishas time, God is not a methodist, D pastor mustnt be dramatic about praying for d check. If he issue a decree for 2 minutes ön their check thats enough. Besides you can neva outgive God as there is nothin d so called poor can give that can be a rip off if its done out of faith. It is a law of seed time. @maven: am so proud of a woman of substance like you who could rise up 2 this occasion and speak in the intrest of a few naive xtians whoz faith would hav been dampened by this malicious and heresious post. All i will say is let there b light.

are you okay? checks now, next it will be stock certificates. EFCC, heeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!

it can only within the christian community.

Na wa for these christians sef! what do u want to turn the world into?
u want to bless ur cheque books so that your money in the bank will double? just like that? Ha! this is really amazing.
DO YOU WANT TO MELT DOWN THIS COUNTRY'S ECONOMY
Na wa o.
i cant beleive any educated, enlightened and sensible man would do that, especially the CEO of that company
What has come over you people!!!

God will save, touch and deliver you all

Dont blame the pastor, blame his gullible and greedy congregation. Lazy bastards waiting for gods blessings.

ilosiwaju:

are you okay? checks now, next it will be stock certificates. EFCC, heeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!

lol this thread is jokes.

una no go kill person

So you took your cheque book to the Pastor to do what? And what did you expect?

It is said that people get the leaders they deserve not the ones they want. What kind of pastor does a man  who brings 9 cheque books to church for blessing deserve? Why are you in that kind of church if not because he preaches what you want?

If you are there because of faith, then I see nothing in what you have posted to make you lose faith.  That does not mean I disagree with you that there are people out there milking people in the name of God. There are and always will be till the end.

It is good to keep your eyes open so you don't fall into a ditch. But then again, there is the lesson about having beams in one's eye,

This post is not to make anyone feel bad. We all do things that require correection every now and then and as long as we can it heed correction and change there is hope.

Utterly shocked! But let no one be the judge here. The word of God has spoken enough about this and a think that should kind of screen off the shock. I mean it the judge of this case is God not you. Beware.

Utterly shocked! But let no one be the judge here. The word of God has spoken enough about this and a think that should kind of screen off the shock. I mean it the judge of this case is God not you. Beware.

Hosea 4.6
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

Proverb 4.7
"Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding"

If they like let them sign open cheque for the preacher,na dem sabi.

@Kola
The passage you quoted was being used to teach believers to give to the poor and needy and NOT greedy men parading themselves as men of God. The bible hould be read and used in it's proper context.

kola oloye:

I'm against extortion but the bible says in
Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together,
and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal
it shall be measured to you again.

Kola, you ought to know better than this.

The passage you quoted did not have any thing to do with giving money to Pastors.

The passage read within its context of use was talking about the attitude Christians should have towards others/other people in which having a giving attitude is one of them.

This giving was never specifically giving of money but giving of different kind of things in accordance to needs of people around you.

Such giving could be giving of money, food, time, love, respect, friendship, advice, help, etc. but all in accordance to need.

I don't know how people rearranged the meaning to specifically money to pastors.

When will christians get it right. Christ did not come to promise earthly rewards if God's words are followed, He came for our salvation. Christ was all about the poor. Our Lord even advised a righteous man to give away his riches to the poor(and not the church).

2 Kings 5:15: And he(Naaman) returned to the man of God (Elisha), he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
016: But he(Elisha) said, As the LORD liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused

Kx:

2 Kings 5:15: And he(Naaman) returned to the man of God (Elisha), he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
016: But he(Elisha) said, As the LORD liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused

The above quoted scripture is totally against the doctrine of our mordern day pentecostal preachers and should be deleted from the bible. How dare you post such an unprofitable scripture here

sauer:

COOL
Nigerians have proven themselves to be greater fools. "Touch not" ko "Touch not" ni! WTF? And people claim we are suffering in this country!? We probably are smiling along.
poster, please make do to mention names. I'll do that for ya anyways, as far as my limited knowledge of nigeria's religious environment allows. NEvertheless, they all are thieves and can be grouped into one

From poster:

We watched as the focus shifted from an intercession to save our nation from final collapse to a grandiose scramble for the same old ‘root of all evils’, money. Pastors who had tasted the pleasures and comfort of the elite class by virtue of their headship of various churches and the unhindered assess it gave them to the common wealth of their congregation sustained their position by spreading a new gospel of prosperity, devising new methods of expanding their followership and squeezing out more money from them (Olukoya of MFN: backside.h.ol.e)

We have today therefore, mega rich, celebrity, Super star, stage con-artists parading in the name of Men of God (Pastor Oyakhilome: pu.nk-haired-funny-american-pi.g he.ad of Christ Embassy) . They move in long convoys (same ol' boy and Chris Okotie: stin.king SOB.i.t.ch of House of God). They establish Universities and colleges which most of their members can not afford to send their kids to[i] (practically all o' em but most especially Oyedepo of bleeping winners: big.headed-nosy- con.man)[/i]. They dress in cloths bought off boutiques were Hollywood celebrities shop (all o' em surely). They speak with cultivated accents[i] (same ol' pu.nk haired guy)[/i]. They own conglomerates[i] (all o' em maybe, but particularly behind.ho.le Ashimolowo of KCCG)[/i]. They cruise round the world[i] (seemingly quiet but sick.head pastor Adeboye of diseased christian church of god)[/i]. Only recently while the nation and indeed the world moaned under the weight of the Global Melt down with many losing their jobs and Government cutting down on spending, one of them chose it as the best time to announce the purchase of his personal jet bought at an amount that could make a dead man shiver in the grave (don't know this one, but could be same ol' sick.head).

I have left out piggy.head-prophesy-hurling marcher Tunde Bakare, di.r.ty-bearded-stammering-fu(khead Joshua of the (in)famous Synagogue, and many others. But that's not because they arne't a.s.s.e.s, but only because I can keep them names in ma head.
Now y'll can get all crazy about this post, if you will.

u r sooooooooooooooo right about these con artists with properties worth over £1M in North London bought outright, no need for a mortgage, u will find their kids @ Buckingham University (private uni in london), i do not want to name names but i know what they all get up to,

spoilt:

Those churches are very persuasive. I once attended a service where the pastor challenged everyone to give all they had. Everything! God was supposed to outdo himself and work a miracle to get them home.
People dropped their transport fares into the tray. It was funny. people will listen to their pastors even when he makes no sense.

My dear, truth is spiritual matters are foolish to logical reasoning and common sense. If you spanned the scriptures you'll find instances were giving even to levites (workers in the vineyard of God) were done under very excruciating circumstances. Two quick examples: 1. God asked Abraham to sacrifice (give) to him his only child, 2. Elijah asked the widow who was about to eat her last supply of meal with her son and wait for death, to prepare of that same little portion and give to him to eat first. That sounds very much like today's pastors doesn't it?

Now am I defending the acts of some of these men of God? God forbid! I'm only defending spiritual practices that hardly reconcile with logical reasoning.
We've been warned that in the last days false prophets shall arise. Also told that lucifer shall appear as angel of light. So it shouldn't surprise us when we see pastors using the potency of the content of the bible to hoodwink and cajole. All I say to folks is be led by the spirit of God. I have on a few occasions given to men of God voluntarily and on request and I sure know what miracles accompanied those givings. Let me share this story with you. I was receiving a visiting pastor from PH once and he fancied the tie i had on and went like " I'm going with this tie cos i so love it" and I said " I'm sorry i do love it far more than you do and so cant give it out" I was already irritated by him.

I also do not think that giving centers only around churches and pastors, but beyond. I'm sad we have few or none of these mega churches engaging in total humanitarian services which is the very essence of church growth other than spiritual enhancement.
May God guide and direct everyones steps to the right place of worship

My man Noetic has spoken well! I dont do all biddings of any man of God, i need a confirmation in my own spirit.

Now let me tackle this secularly and advocate for the defensive.

@OP, what do you think about football stars, hollywood stars, musicians & standup comedians? Are they deserving of their earnings? The Bible says we are not to muzzle the ox that treads the grain because a labourer is worthy of his wages. The ox should eat freely out of the same grain field that it works on. There are people who will give any sum of money to see Beckham face to face or shake hands with Drogba, or support Kanu Heart Foundation with the last money on them. People have died because they wanted to see or touch Michael Jackson. Kanye West creates controversy, annoys many people and makes sales off it. Dbanj will always use dirty innuendo to pass across sensuous messages, but some people will do anything he says. Are all these people deserving of the attention or financial benefit?

My point is, what is the beef? Is it the undue attention and people-control? You cant say your complaint is cos of religion because some people's religion is hiphop and whatever the music industry says, they do and nobody raises an eyebrow. And i have never seen anyone complain about the undue amount paid to the gods of the soccer religion. Never forget that for some people, all the hope they have ever had in the world was gotten in the church.

If your point is about taxes, there i will agree with you. But its too bad that if taxes are instituted, poor churches will have an even harder time while the rich ones will still manage. And unlike companies, you cant sell shares to raise revenue for the sinking churches. What happens then?

If men have chosen to follow another man and do anything he says, (not anything at all, i hope you understand it is within limits) out of love and respect, there is nothing you can do about that. Thats how the world works. Those who dont take the lead pay those who are ahead. If you were not there when he was labouring in prayers and the word for the congregation, who are you to judge if he is paid for his services?

Just to be clear about this, if you are one of the church members, you may have the right to speak of what the pastor deserves. For those of us who are not, we do not know what makes the members do what they will so I think we should not condemn them. Leave it for God to judge.

If they were ministering lies and deceiving people for monetary gain, thats a different matter. As long as they are not teaching falsehood, God wants us to mind our business, lest we fall into error. E.g.
John 21:22-23

If others do not understand you I do. The snag with your post is that words failed you in conveying precisely what you had on your mind. I must salute your cultured responses to views against yours and your person. If we have 70% forumites like you forums will be healthy to visit

Thanks Tonjoan. Now I don't know what to say, but I am glad that at least one person understood me , which is often a rare occurence unless I'm physically there to explain what I mean. Words fail me very often

Thanks again! You kinda made my day

Nobody can force you to write any amount in your cheque book. The intentions of the pastor may have been wrong, but that does not remove the free will of the account holder to write whatever they like.

If someone normally drops #500 every week, what stops them from writing a #500 cheque , or from paying their tithes in advance if they pay tithes?

If you're stuck, there's always a way to go about it without being duped. After all you are not giving the church a blank cheque.

So people are gullible. What else is new?

Those churches are very persuasive. I once attended a service where the pastor challenged everyone to give all they had. Everything! God was supposed to outdo himself and work a miracle to get them home.
People dropped their transport fares into the tray. It was funny. people will listen to their pastors even when he makes no sense.

i actually witnessed the same scenario as a kid in benin city at the late benson idahosa's church. it was dec. 32 (new year's eve/watchnight) and this guy actually told everyone to empty out their pockets n if a kobo should mistakenly follow them into the new year they could loss their blessings. everyone started frantically shaking their pockets to make sure no kobo is left. i remember then, the tailor sewing our new years cloths was f.cking up with the time he was supposed to finish em n he promised to finish it b4 new year dat night n we should stop off on our way back from church. my mum actually gave all the tailor's balance payment to the church that night n had to beg to pay it to him later in the year. i remember that night when we were driving home how the streets was filled with people walking home because no transport fare. i wonder how many of those gullible people reaped their so-called blessings that year. i can never forget that year 1987 aka "ninety eighty success stretch". na wah o. i can see the new holy scam artist learnt well from the inovators.