November 20, 2016. That marks the last time I sat down to write an opinion piece. Between then and now Trump was sworn in as the 45th president of the United States, Cameroon won the Africa Cup of Nations, Arsenal went from being title favorites to well....being Arsenal...not to mention the shellacking Arsenal received at the hands of Bayern a few weeks back...and...MMM crashed...thus it ever was.

I've been somewhat lethargic this year. Despite 'prophecies' from the 'men of God' promising prosperity as well as the usual claims from politicians that things are 'getting better', the reverse in fact holds true. Garri, yes garri, is now a Veblen good! (You won't get that if you aren't a student of economics)
The other time when I tried to get two sachets of garri with a wrap of groundnut, a small packet of sugar and the ubiquitous 'Cowbell' milk, it cost me 300 naira! 300 g**damn naira! Time was, with 300 naira you could take a girl out on a date and pay her transport fare (ok, admittedly I may have grossly exaggerated things but surely you get my drift). Whoever said recession is just a word should try surviving on my monthly stipend. In all of these there are only 2 real winners. The betting houses who have succeeding in clawing away a sizable chunk of what little we students have and Mr Mavrodi....but what do I know?

Given the above, it's easy to see why I'm lax and mostly unexcited. The silver lining here is that I get to do what I haven't done in ages, namely, write. This brings me to the crux of my piece.

I don't regard myself as a religious person. I generally think that religion has outlived its usefulness although I'd be the first to admit that it has brought its benefits. Religion is to society what Arsenal is to football. Won stuff in time past, play lovely football which is aesthetically pleasing to the eye but as everyone knows will almost never bring in trophies. I am an Arsenal fan sadly, so I'd know. In the same vein, religion has in time past been a unifying force. In the words of Marx:

"Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification."

Taken at face value, the above quote seems like an argument for religion. Only if you consider the quotes that follow do you get a proper picture of what Marx actually meant:

"The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.”

You see, when Marx made this statement, he made a pithy observation with regards to class struggle. Religion, he said, was the people’s opiate. Opium back then was known for its soothing and soporific effect. When one was tired of the stress of daily life, he could always fall back on this drug for some mild relief. Of course once under the influence of the drug, you are powerless against the happenings around you and become enslaved. Marx was seeking to awaken class consciousness among the masses whom he called the proletariat. They had become completely blindsided by religion for whom it had become an ”illusory happiness” while been subjected to privation. “Work and pray, live on hay, you’ll get your pie in the sky when you die”.


In our world today, religion has indubitably taken center stage. The Pew Research Center estimates that about 84% of the earth’s population have one form of religious affiliation. This is like saying that in every 5 people, 4 are religious. The three major religions, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism alone account for some 4.8 billion adherents. The quest for “God” has surely taken a new meaning!

My major grouse with religion is that it claims to have answers whereas it creates more problems than solutions. I should know as should the average Nigerian. It is a bit difficult to get accurate statistics on religion in Nigeria, but the Pew Forum in 2010 put the statistics at 52% Muslim, 46% Christian and 1% Other. Basically it is correct to say that the average Nigerian is religious.
I could go on to show in what way religion has ‘transformed’ the Nigerian society. I could tell you that we have at every point on our history been led by religious people, either Christian or Muslim. Despite what they hear in the religious houses, our leaders are on average, crooks! This is no sweeping generalization, anyone can see that, Res ipsa loquitor.

The buck doesn’t stop there, it goes all the way down. Over 3 million Nigerians participated in the failed Ponzi scheme known as MMM. It was advertised in churches! A fraudulent scheme which was promoted in the “house of God”. Pastors encouraged their members, some even took from church coffers to invest in the scheme. Avarice in the “house of God”.
Need I mention Islam? Al-Qaeda, Al-Shaabab, Hezbollah, ISIS, and much closer to home, Boko Haram. All terrorist groups that run on Islamist ideologies. Religion has caused more wars in history than any other thing. This is a verifiable fact.

We have heard of different cases where religious buildings collapse due to negligence and people die. Does the government hold the religious leaders culpable? No. They do not want to risk the wrath of their many followers who are valuable given their voting influence. In fact, the same followers will say “Touch not mine anointed…..”. Religion, not the law, reigns supreme.


Every year, we hear prophecies from “men of God”. Apparently “God” revealed the future to them. At the end of the year the disparity between the prophecies and reality are as far apart as east is from west. Yet followers will blindly defend these religious leaders to the death. For every failed “prophecy”, it was “the will of God”. Oh really?
We are told about how people get “healed” at crusades. People with supposedly incurable diseases like cancer and HIV get “spontaneous remissions”. Hallelujah! Yet for every one person who gets a “healing”, there are thousands with common ailments who leave the crusade grounds disappointed. “You need to have more faith” the pastors say. Indeed. Isn’t it rather convenient that “God” only performs “healings” on crusade grounds? He is omnipotent, and omnipresent. Surely with “faith like a mustard seed” one need not go as far as Ogun State to get “healed”. Then again, you must remember that if the “men of God” perform their “miracles” on the streets, the people would have no reason to go to church to pay their offerings and the usual “10%” called tithe.
I will not talk about the irony in giving 10% to “God” while your children cannot afford to attend schools owned by your church. Or the joke in having 5 of the 10 wealthiest pastors in the world coming from Nigeria while 60% of Nigerians live on less than a dollar a day; ”in everything give thanks”.

Our thinking has become completely warped by religion. We select our leaders not based on merit but based on their religion. So we must have a Christian/Muslim ticket for the posts of President and Vice-President respectively. So who is going to represent the minority who do not belong in any of those religions?
At work we see religious bigotry in place. He is Muslim therefore he is not fit for the job. She is Christian therefore I will employ her. We sacrifice effectiveness on the altar of religion. Look how that has turned out for us.


I will take it a step further and engage the controversial subject of sexual orientation. The majority of Nigerians are clearly against homosexuality, not based on any concrete reason stemmed in logic but because it goes against their religious beliefs. It is a good thing that some people are beginning to wake up and realize how atavistic and anachronistic it is to base one’s present beliefs and way of life on “holy books” written hundreds and even thousands of years ago. The same religious books that condemn homosexuality are mute when it comes to the subject of slavery. In fact, many slave owners back then were religious people who based their beliefs on these religious books. You only need to see the movie “12 Years a Slave” to get my point. Fortunately, some people woke up and realized that slavery is barbaric and today it has largely been abolished even though other forms of it such as child labor and human trafficking exist today.

Some will argue that religion is the basis for human law and without it there would be chaos. This is an untruth or as they say now, an alternative fact. People are born with an innate sense of morality which is a concept that exists outside of religion. No one is born “Christian” or “Muslim”, they are born human. Environmental determinism says that our environment to a large extent determines who we are. Thus you are likely to be Hindu if you were born in India and Muslim if you were born in Iran.

Our conscience exists as a moral compass to tell us if we are right or wrong. However our conscience is subjective and can be conditioned such that we no longer feel wrong after repeatedly doing something bad. Now a religious person would argue that this is where religion provides rules of behavior whereby if one falls short he is punished by a higher authority who is in this case, God. Yet this can easily be countered by recalling that even terrorists who have knowledge of what their holy books say still go ahead to commit heinous crimes not in spite of their religion but because of it. Ironic.

So no, we don’t need religion. The French philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau in his social contract theory argues that man being prone to rebellion and wanton desires realizes the need for authority. So he surrenders some of his freedom to a higher authority, the government, who in turn enters a contract with the individual to protect him from his own excesses as well as the excesses of others. The individual must thus obey the law as the law is an expression of the general will. The law having its legitimacy derived from the people is autochthonous and is the standard which all are subjected to. When one person falls short, he must face the music. I do not answer to secondary laws derived from holy books as they are “subjective”. I will not commit murder not because the Bible says “Thou shalt not” but because the law says so. This is one of the problems in our legal system because laws have become subjective; Sharia law in the north and Judeo-Christian laws in the south. How does that even work?

In the end, I hold no grudges against anyone who chooses to follow organized religion. However it becomes an issue when it begins to permeate every sector of life. As Marx says, “Man makes religion, religion does not make man”. For some, the promise of “eternal life” is enough for them. I prefer to live life based on what is, not what will be.

Cc MZlady39, Wilgrea7, felixomor, engineerboat Doctoralien, enshy, Junia, Tosyne2much, Kondomatic, SirWere, Ilynem, Hahn

Cc obinna58, jonbellion, frank317, akintom, Niflheim, Seun, hopefulLandlord, pastafarian, CatfishBilly

nice writeup

Nice write up

Many people feel "safe" believing in god, heaven, prayers, miracles, unmerited favor and all other soothing religious concepts.

Life is too hard. Not everyone can live in reality.

But well.....

I will be back

Sheikwonder:

November 20, 2016. That marks the last time I sat down to write an opinion piece. Between then and now Trump was sworn in as the 45th president of the United States, Cameroon won the Africa Cup of Nations, Arsenal went from being title favorites to well....being Arsenal...not to mention the shellacking Arsenal received at the hands of Bayern a few weeks back...and...MMM crashed...thus it ever was.

I've been somewhat lethargic this year. Despite 'prophecies' from the 'men of God' promising prosperity as well as the usual claims from politicians that things are 'getting better', the reverse in fact holds true. Garri, yes garri, is now a Veblen good! (You won't get that if you aren't a student of economics)
The other time when I tried to get two sachets of garri with a wrap of groundnut, a small packet of sugar and the ubiquitous 'Cowbell' milk, it cost me 300 naira! 300 g**damn naira! Time was, with 300 naira you could take a girl out on a date and pay her transport fare (ok, admittedly I may have grossly exaggerated things but surely you get my drift). Whoever said recession is just a word should try surviving on my monthly stipend. In all of these there are only 2 real winners. The betting houses who have succeeding in clawing away a sizable chunk of what little we students have and Mr Mavrodi....but what do I know?

Given the above, it's easy to see why I'm lax and mostly unexcited. The silver lining here is that I get to do what I haven't done in ages, namely, write. This brings me to the crux of my piece.

I don't regard myself as a religious person. I generally think that religion has outlived its usefulness although I'd be the first to admit that it has brought its benefits. Religion is to society what Arsenal is to football. Won stuff in time past, play lovely football which is aesthetically pleasing to the eye but as everyone knows will almost never bring in trophies. I am an Arsenal fan sadly, so I'd know. In the same vein, religion has in time past been a unifying force. In the words of Marx:

"Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification."

Taken at face value, the above quote seems like an argument for religion. Only if you consider the quotes that follow do you get a proper picture of what Marx actually meant:

"The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.”

You see, when Marx made this statement, he made a pithy observation with regards to class struggle. Religion, he said, was the people’s opiate. Opium back then was known for its soothing and soporific effect. When one was tired of the stress of daily life, he could always fall back on this drug for some mild relief. Of course once under the influence of the drug, you are powerless against the happenings around you and become enslaved. Marx was seeking to awaken class consciousness among the masses whom he called the proletariat. They had become completely blindsided by religion for whom it had become an ”illusory happiness” while been subjected to privation. “Work and pray, live on hay, you’ll get your pie in the sky when you die”.


In our world today, religion has indubitably taken center stage. The Pew Research Center estimates that about 84% of the earth’s population have one form of religious affiliation. This is like saying that in every 5 people, 4 are religious. The three major religions, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism alone account for some 4.8 billion adherents. The quest for “God” has surely taken a new meaning!

My major grouse with religion is that it claims to have answers whereas it creates more problems than solutions. I should know as should the average Nigerian. It is a bit difficult to get accurate statistics on religion in Nigeria, but the Pew Forum in 2010 put the statistics at 52% Muslim, 46% Christian and 1% Other. Basically it is correct to say that the average Nigerian is religious.
I could go on to show in what way religion has ‘transformed’ the Nigerian society. I could tell you that we have at every point on our history been led by religious people, either Christian or Muslim. Despite what they hear in the religious houses, our leaders are on average, crooks! This is no sweeping generalization, anyone can see that, Res ipsa loquitor.

The buck doesn’t stop there, it goes all the way down. Over 3 million Nigerians participated in the failed Ponzi scheme known as MMM. It was advertised in churches! A fraudulent scheme which was promoted in the “house of God”. Pastors encouraged their members, some even took from church coffers to invest in the scheme. Avarice in the “house of God”.
Need I mention Islam? Al-Qaeda, Al-Shaabab, Hezbollah, ISIS, and much closer to home, Boko Haram. All terrorist groups that run on Islamist ideologies. Religion has caused more wars in history than any other thing. This is a verifiable fact.

We have heard of different cases where religious buildings collapse due to negligence and people die. Does the government hold the religious leaders culpable? No. They do not want to risk the wrath of their many followers who are valuable given their voting influence. In fact, the same followers will say “Touch not mine anointed…..”. Religion, not the law, reigns supreme.


Every year, we hear prophecies from “men of God”. Apparently “God” revealed the future to them. At the end of the year the disparity between the prophecies and reality are as far apart as east is from west. Yet followers will blindly defend these religious leaders to the death. For every failed “prophecy”, it was “the will of God”. Oh really?
We are told about how people get “healed” at crusades. People with supposedly incurable diseases like cancer and HIV get “spontaneous remissions”. Hallelujah! Yet for every one person who gets a “healing”, there are thousands with common ailments who leave the crusade grounds disappointed. “You need to have more faith” the pastors say. Indeed. Isn’t it rather convenient that “God” only performs “healings” on crusade grounds? He is omnipotent, and omnipresent. Surely with “faith like a mustard seed” one need not go as far as Ogun State to get “healed”. Then again, you must remember that if the “men of God” perform their “miracles” on the streets, the people would have no reason to go to church to pay their offerings and the usual “10%” called tithe.
I will not talk about the irony in giving 10% to “God” while your children cannot afford to attend schools owned by your church. Or the joke in having 5 of the 10 wealthiest pastors in the world coming from Nigeria while 60% of Nigerians live on less than a dollar a day; ”in everything give thanks”.

Our thinking has become completely warped by religion. We select our leaders not based on merit but based on their religion. So we must have a Christian/Muslim ticket for the posts of President and Vice-President respectively. So who is going to represent the minority who do not belong in any of those religions?
At work we see religious bigotry in place. He is Muslim therefore he is not fit for the job. She is Christian therefore I will employ her. We sacrifice effectiveness on the altar of religion. Look how that has turned out for us.


I will take it a step further and engage the controversial subject of sexual orientation. The majority of Nigerians are clearly against homosexuality, not based on any concrete reason stemmed in logic but because it goes against their religious beliefs. It is a good thing that some people are beginning to wake up and realize how atavistic and anachronistic it is to base one’s present beliefs and way of life on “holy books” written hundreds and even thousands of years ago. The same religious books that condemn homosexuality are mute when it comes to the subject of slavery. In fact, many slave owners back then were religious people who based their beliefs on these religious books. You only need to see the movie “12 Years a Slave” to get my point. Fortunately, some people woke up and realized that slavery is barbaric and today it has largely been abolished even though other forms of it such as child labor and human trafficking exist today.

Some will argue that religion is the basis for human law and without it there would be chaos. This is an untruth or as they say now, an alternative fact. People are born with an innate sense of morality which is a concept that exists outside of religion. No one is born “Christian” or “Muslim”, they are born human. Environmental determinism says that our environment to a large extent determines who we are. Thus you are likely to be Hindu if you were born in India and Muslim if you were born in Iran.

Our conscience exists as a moral compass to tell us if we are right or wrong. However our conscience is subjective and can be conditioned such that we no longer feel wrong after repeatedly doing something bad. Now a religious person would argue that this is where religion provides rules of behavior whereby if one falls short he is punished by a higher authority who is in this case, God. Yet this can easily be countered by recalling that even terrorists who have knowledge of what their holy books say still go ahead to commit heinous crimes not in spite of their religion but because of it. Ironic.

So no, we don’t need religion. The French philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau in his social contract theory argues that man being prone to rebellion and wanton desires realizes the need for authority. So he surrenders some of his freedom to a higher authority, the government, who in turn enters a contract with the individual to protect him from his own excesses as well as the excesses of others. The individual must thus obey the law as the law is an expression of the general will. The law having its legitimacy derived from the people is autochthonous and is the standard which all are subjected to. When one person falls short, he must face the music. I do not answer to secondary laws derived from holy books as they are “subjective”. I will not commit murder not because the Bible says “Thou shalt not” but because the law says so. This is one of the problems in our legal system because laws have become subjective; Sharia law in the north and Judeo-Christian laws in the south. How does that even work?

In the end, I hold no grudges against anyone who chooses to follow organized religion. However it becomes an issue when it begins to permeate every sector of life. As Marx says, “Man makes religion, religion does not make man”. For some, the promise of “eternal life” is enough for them. I prefer to live life based on what is, not what will be.

So what is your question

Hey...Am I the only Christian woman in this section!!??
I keep getting mentioned with all the guys
Anyhow, while I disagree with your overall view of Christianity (for obvious reasons), I do realize that you are viewing it through the lense of Nigeria. Some of what you said also occurs in the U.S.
You clearly are an educated reader & writer. I must give you credit for expressing your views well

engineerboat:


So what is your question

Did you have to quote the full thing?

CatfishBilly:

Did you have to quote the full thing?

Sorry if you are offended.

Like the saying goes everybody have right to his own opinion.

So many things comes up in your write up.

But i will like you to be specific on area of discussion.

CatfishBilly:
Did you have to quote the full thing?

like seriously... that thing pisses me off

Sheikwonder:
Cc MZlady39, Wilgrea7, felixomor, engineerboat Doctoralien, enshy, Junia, Tosyne2much, Kondomatic, SirWere, Ilynem, Hahn

Wow! My friend what happened to you? We used to call you pastor Chris! Anyway, nice write up. You are still an awesome writer. But I will have to disagree with you on a lot of things. Maybe we will have time to discuss personally, but I will just say this. We judge the law by what the law says and not how people interpret it. We need to say same about Religion. As a Christian, I am a follower of Jesus, but I am not a yardstick to judge Christianity. Jesus is. If you can't fault the teachings of Jesus, you can't fault Christianity. At the end of the day, we have a lot of crooks using Christianity to make millions for themselves. We have a lot of people who misinterpret the Bible all to sooth themselves. It was done during the time of slavery, it is being done now. This is no fault of Jesus or his teachings, but how people have twisted it for their own gain. Religion might have outlived its usefulness, but Christianity hasn't. Try reading the Bible, you will be shocked to see a lot of solutions to your problems (and no, the solution is not prayer). As for Arsenal, no solution in sight my bro

engineerboat:


So what is your question

You just had to quote the whole stuff to ask that question?

Sheikwonder:

...

hello Sheikwonder... nice writeup... everything there seems to be stated as a fact.. i failed to see the question (if there's any)... maybe you could show me... thanks

Sheikwonder!! Been a while man.
I agree with your writeup completely with the exception of Arsenal being the football equivalent of religion....for personal reasons .



However, the question still lies : What can be used to replace illusion? Even Marx couldn't fully grasp this; seeing how communism played out in the USSR.

MZLady39:
Hey...Am I the only Christian woman in this section!!??
I keep getting mentioned with all the guys
Anyhow, while I disagree with your overall view of Christianity (for obvious reasons), I do realize that you are viewing it through the lense of Nigeria. Some of what you said also occurs in the U.S.
You clearly are an educated reader & writer. I must give you credit for expressing your views well

Of course we all knew that some of what he said occurs in every part of the world but some places are extremely worse,(eg Nigeria) Nigeria was used for a better and clear understanding, u mustn't just comment because u have to

MZ

engineerboat:


So what is your question

You Ve an unr3sponded mention. Anyways hope ya had a nice journey

Back to the back Anyways, did you both reading his his post?
Fvcking no

No wonder your response was silly.
Take ya time to respond maturely on any mentions instead of acting like a kiddy

Wilgrea7:




like seriously... that thing pisses me off

Na your brother naw.

Regarding the article I wrote, people have asked me for what could be a proper replacement for religion. My answer is this: Reason.

Someone is dying and in need of a transfusion. All logic points to the fact that all that is needed is a visit to the doctor to get a successful blood transfusion, instead because of a religious belief, the person would rather die, leaving a grieving family behind. All for religion.

Another who barely earns enough is coughing out 10% of his wages in tithes while his family is malnourished. All for religion.

Then there are those that go to war to determine which religion is the true one. They claim to fight for God as though their all powerful God can't fight for himself. Millions die. All for religion.

Just a few days back we saw the story of the old lady who was tortured for being an "owl". Apparently that was a "victory" for Christianity over the "forces of darkness". All for religion.

Even our economic policies are not based on rationality but religion. At the time when the economy was floundering, the central authorities thought it was a brilliant idea to have a separate exchange rate system for pilgrims. Pilgrims got dollars at a lower rate while the rest of Nigerians suffered. And what did said pilgrims do? They took advantage of the system to still make gains by round-tripping. All these despite the fact that they were going on a pilgrimage! The whole affair had become a farce!


Isn't it a wonder that the Europeans who brought Christianity are shifting the paradigm, away from religion to a more secular world? I for one believe that society will function better without religion.

It's not impossible, we are just not used to the idea because we have been ingrained in the habit of leaving everything "in God's hands". The age of reason set the pace for science and its advancements as man moved away from the superstitious era. Everywhere it seems is moving ahead, everywhere except for Nigeria.

Religion is a farce, Reason on the other hand is the basis for law, philosophy , knowledge and science. We need thinkers in this country, not docile lambs easily swayed by sentiment and religiose talk.


I'm however open to counter thoughts on this matter..... Let me hear what you think...

ilynem:

Wow! My friend what happened to you? We used to call you pastor Chris! Anyway, nice write up. You are still an awesome writer. But I will have to disagree with you on a lot of things. Maybe we will have time to discuss personally, but I will just say this. We judge the law by what the law says and not how people interpret it. We need to say same about Religion. As a Christian, I am a follower of Jesus, but I am not a yardstick to judge Christianity. Jesus is. If you can't fault the teachings of Jesus, you can't fault Christianity. At the end of the day, we have a lot of crooks using Christianity to make millions for themselves. We have a lot of people who misinterpret the Bible all to sooth themselves. It was done during the time of slavery, it is being done now. This is no fault of Jesus or his teachings, but how people have twisted it for their own gain. Religion might have outlived its usefulness, but Christianity hasn't. Try reading the Bible, you will be shocked to see a lot of solutions to your problems (and no, the solution is not prayer). As for Arsenal, no solution in sight my bro

ILY. I'm finding my path. It's tough to be a contrarian in our country today especially when your views are unpopular and antireligious. I am yet to come out completely as being irreligious due to the backlash. I am irreligious in principle , albeit not an atheist. I am finding my way through self-enlightenment. I have monitored your posts and you seem to be a Champion for Christianity. Good for you. As you know well I was like you once. It's however a wonderful thing to have your consciousness raised, when that happens you begin to see organized religion in a different light.

I hope you get your consciousness raised some day.....


P. S: Regarding Arsenal, I am tired. But I shall remain loyal.....

Wilgrea7:


hello Sheikwonder... nice writeup... everything there seems to be stated as a fact.. i failed to see the question (if there's any)... maybe you could show me... thanks

Thank you.

No questions per se, I merely want to have an enlightened discussion on religion and society. I am of the opinion that religion is overrated and otiose. We can do without it. I'd like to know what you think.

SirWere:
Sheikwonder!! Been a while man.
I agree with your writeup completely with the exception of Arsenal being the football equivalent of religion....for personal reasons .



However, the question still lies : What can be used to replace illusion? Even Marx couldn't fully grasp this; seeing how communism played out in the USSR.

Hey there!

One has to have two hearts to be a Gunner. The heartbreak is just too much.... I salute your loyalty. I'm still a fan regardless of my write-up.

To your question, the idea of replacing an illusion with another illusion seems like a self-defeating purpose. I would rather that people began to question their beliefs and think for themselves instead of being led like "lamb to the slaughter". I propose that reason is a good place to start. The idea of a place beyond the skies has made many relish in their suffering. If only they knew that such places only exist in the head.

I am a silent follower of Seun and I must say that he has in his own way contributed to "opening my eyes" to the defects in religion even though I'm not an atheist. By also studying and looking at the Bible objectively, I am relaxed in the fact that the Bible cannot be considered as the absolute guide book. It is a fallacy to even think that way.

Summarily, a society where people question the beliefs imposed on them by their progenitors are on the right path to enlightenment. Let's start from there. We question our age-old beliefs and demystify them using reason as our tool.

Oh No another wailing thread! O woe betide religion.

No lele, I'm in the mood to respond. Let's go.

My major grouse with religion is that it claims to have answers whereas it creates more problems than solutions. I should know as should the average Nigerian. It is a bit difficult to get accurate statistics on religion in Nigeria, but the Pew Forum in 2010 put the statistics at 52% Muslim, 46% Christian and 1% Other. Basically it is correct to say that the average Nigerian is religious.
I could go on to show in what way religion has ‘transformed’ the Nigerian society. I could tell you that we have at every point on our history been led by religious people, either Christian or Muslim. Despite what they hear in the religious houses, our leaders are on average, crooks! This is no sweeping generalization, anyone can see that, Res ipsa loquitor.

My grouse with you and your fellow critic of Christianity is your lack of knowledge of Christianity specifically. If you are knowledgeable, you would have known Christianity is against greed. It's against corruption. You would have known one of the greatest commandments Jesus gave to his followers was to love our neighbors as ourselves. It's naive or probably mischievous of you to say everyone who call himself a Christian is a true follower of Christ. There are millions of Christians who are not crooks and we don't get to hear them being celebrated because it's not news. While there are millions of people who don't believe in God and are crooks and they are not judge as an Atheist but as an individual.

Hopefully before Sunday I'll open a more comprehensive rebuttal thread.

Sheikwonder:



ILY. I'm finding my path. It's tough to be a contrarian in our country today especially when your views are unpopular and antireligious. I am yet to come out completely as being irreligious due to the backlash. I am irreligious in principle , albeit not an atheist. I am finding my way through self-enlightenment. I have monitored your posts and you seem to be a Champion for Christianity. Good for you. As you know well I was like you once. It's however a wonderful thing to have your consciousness raised, when that happens you begin to see organized religion in a different light.

I hope you get your consciousness raised some day.....


P. S: Regarding Arsenal, I am tired. But I shall remain loyal.....

Champion for Christianity? Nah! Not even close. And trust me, I am just like you. Finding my own path. But anytime I have a question, I seek answers. Gerd Ludemann a famous atheist theologian who studied the new testament extensively came to an interesting conclusion about the apostles of Jesus. He wasn't sure they saw a risen Christ but he was sure they saw something. Something that made them believe Christ was actually risen because they took this belief to their bloody deaths and not one of them changed their testimony.
Now compare this to today's Christians and put a gun on the head of any Christian and ask him or her to deny their faith. 80% of Christians and "pastors" will. Why is it different today? Cuz we aren't even sure of our stand. The apostles where so sure of what they saw and that is why they were ready to die. So how can we be sure? By doing exactly what you are doing. Finding your own path. Raising questions, until you are 100% sure of what you believe that you can even die for it. But just be sure to seek answers in the right place. Its one thing to find your path, its another to find the right path and its my prayer you do.
PS: Jesus says, Love thy God and love your neighbor as yourself. If all Nigerians obeyed this simple rule, how do you think our country will be? And also I was writing a novel for our church website about atheism. I was working on a clock so I kinda rushed it. Wasn't good enough though. Maybe I will revisit it and write it better. Will love for you to see it.

Sheikwonder:



Thank you.

No questions per se, I merely want to have an enlightened discussion on religion and society. I am of the opinion that religion is overrated and otiose. We can do without it. I'd like to know what you think.

well... its all about control... the battle for the minds.. Its real... God is not restricted to religion... I'd say religion in itself is not a problem but the values in it... religion can either LEAD or CONTROL..... not all religions are against questioning... just mostly the Abrahamic religions... their fundamentalist aspects are really a problem in regards to many things... not all religions are about mind control... some (very few) are about mind liberation... but they are perculiar to thr east.... i think.... coming to the main religions, Christianity and Islam... they are used as a medium to control and extort people.. in a situation where one man is seen to be the only link to God(pastor/imam) for messages from God, deliverance etc.. people would be willing to follow anything this “link" says cuz they believe they are serving God... even the Christian claim of “holy spirit" does not exclude them from the mind control... living by holy books is not the problem... the problem is the content of the said holy book.... I've read from the holy book of Buddhism and Sikhism... so i know what I'm saying... but for the abrahamic religions, attempting to strictly follow a book with said passages on violence won't yield a very “peaceful" result... especially when you rely on specific leaders to tell you how to do certain things.... so like mark zuckerberg said... "religion is important"..... but sometimes it is used for mind control...illiterates are usually the object of it... as you can see in the case of Nigeria..

ilynem:

Champion for Christianity? Nah! Not even close. And trust me, I am just like you. Finding my own path. But anytime I have a question, I seek answers. Gerd Ludemann a famous atheist theologian who studied the new testament extensively came to an interesting conclusion about the apostles of Jesus. He wasn't sure they saw a risen Christ but he was sure they saw something. Something that made them believe Christ was actually risen because they took this belief to their bloody deaths and not one of them changed their testimony.
Now compare this to today's Christians and put a gun on the head of any Christian and ask him or her to deny their faith. 80% of Christians and "pastors" will. Why is it different today? Cuz we aren't even sure of our stand. The apostles where so sure of what they saw and that is why they were ready to die. So how can we be sure? By doing exactly what you are doing. Finding your own path. Raising questions, until you are 100% sure of what you believe that you can even die for it. But just be sure to seek answers in the right place. Its one thing to find your path, its another to find the right path and its my prayer you do.
PS: Jesus says, Love thy God and love your neighbor as yourself. If all Nigerians obeyed this simple rule, how do you think our country will be? And also I was writing a novel for our church website about atheism. I was working on a clock so I kinda rushed it. Wasn't good enough though. Maybe I will revisit it and write it better. Will love for you to see it.

Regarding your novel, sure.

You talk about "raising questions until you are 100% sure of what you believe in". I'm afraid that is impossible. Impossible because in matters of religion, one cannot be 100% sure. This speaks to the subjective nature of religion which is why there are different interpretations to the same religious texts and by extension different denominations all claiming to worship a God who is not the "Author of confusion". Ironic. This also explains why the religious leaders tell you that you can only understand through "faith". Faith however is relative and subjective as well. Hence, to believe that there was a talking donkey, you need "faith" despite all the empirical evidence as well as observing donkeys from the inception of time proving otherwise. You need "faith" to believe that "God is love" despite his claims that he created evil. You need "faith" to believe that you can "move mountains" when all the common sense in the world will tell you that there is no such thing.


Jesus saying "Love your neighbor as yourself" is first of all, a repetition of ideas. Repetition because he wasn't the first to espouse the idea. That credit goes to Confucius who initially coined the "Golden Rule" some hundreds of years before : Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you. A rule that was plagiarized by Jesus albeit unintentionally. So you can as well say "if all Nigerians obeyed Confucius's rule how would our country be"?

Regarding the testimony of the apostles as proof of Jesus' resurrection almost sounds convincing - until you remember that Peter himself denied Jesus before. Besides, a person strongly deluded or brainwashed will easily die for a cause even though his conviction is faulty. You only need to look at the thousands of suicide bombers who honestly believe that virgins await them in the heavens above and will stand by their convictions regardless of threat of death. I'm afraid but those testimonies only prove that the disciples sincerely believed in a resurrected Christ. It doesn't prove that Christ resurrected and as before, it takes "faith" to believe in that.

I like how you admit that Gerd Ludemann believes that the disciples may not have been sure of what they saw. That is probably the best we can say about their testimonies, they were not sure........

luvmijeje:
Oh No another wailing thread! O woe betide religion.

No lele, I'm in the mood to respond. Let's go.



My grouse with you and your fellow critic of Christianity is your lack of knowledge of Christianity specifically. If you are knowledgeable, you would have known Christianity is against greed. It's against corruption. You would have known one of the greatest commandments Jesus gave to his followers was to love our neighbors as ourselves. It's naive or probably mischievous of you to say everyone who call himself a Christian is a true follower of Christ. There are millions of Christians who are not crooks and we don't get to hear them being celebrated because it's not news. While there are millions of people who don't believe in God and are crooks and they are not judge as an Atheist but as an individual.

Hopefully before Sunday I'll open a more comprehensive rebuttal thread.

Actually, many critics of Christianity are very knowledgeable about what Christianity teaches.

You claim that Christianity is against greed - maybe in theory. In practice Christianity thrives on milking off its followers. Bigger churches, richer pastors, poorer members, Hallelujah!

You claim that Christianity is against corruption. Again, maybe in theory. In practice many Christians are corrupt. Very few religious leaders today can claim not having a dent on their name either with regards to arms purchases, illicit transfer of funds, sexual depravity , and sheer hypocrisy. I am not an atheist mind you , believe it or not.

You claim that there are millions of Christians who are not crooks. Seeing that there are more than 2 billion professed Christians, what does that say about the number of Christians who are actually crooks?

I gladly await your comprehensive rebuttal. Be good.

Sheikwonder:



Regarding your novel, sure.

You talk about "raising questions until you are 100% sure of what you believe in". I'm afraid that is impossible. Impossible because in matters of religion, one cannot be 100% sure. This speaks to the subjective nature of religion which is why there are different interpretations to the same religious texts and by extension different denominations all claiming to worship a God who is not the "Author of confusion". Ironic. This also explains why the religious leaders tell you that you can only understand through "faith". Faith however is relative and subjective as well. Hence, to believe that there was a talking donkey, you need "faith" despite all the empirical evidence as well as observing donkeys from the inception of time proving otherwise. You need "faith" to believe that "God is love" despite his claims that he created evil. You need "faith" to believe that you can "move mountains" when all the common sense in the world will tell you that there is no such thing.


Jesus saying "Love your neighbor as yourself" is first of all, a repetition of ideas. Repetition because he wasn't the first to espouse the idea. That credit goes to Confucius who initially coined the "Golden Rule" some hundreds of years before : Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you. A rule that was plagiarized by Jesus albeit unintentionally. So you can as well say "if all Nigerians obeyed Confucius's rule how would our country be"?

Regarding the testimony of the apostles as proof of Jesus' resurrection almost sounds convincing - until you remember that Peter himself denied Jesus before. Besides, a person strongly deluded or brainwashed will easily die for a cause even though his conviction is faulty. You only need to look at the thousands of suicide bombers who honestly believe that virgins await them in the heavens above and will stand by their convictions regardless of threat of death. I'm afraid but those testimonies only prove that the disciples sincerely believed in a resurrected Christ. It doesn't prove that Christ resurrected and as before, it takes "faith" to believe in that.

I like how you admit that Gerd Ludemann believes that the disciples may not have been sure of what they saw. That is probably the best we can say about their testimonies, they were not sure........

Well, i think someone who is wiling to die for a faith is hundred percent sure of it. Dont get me wrong, you can be hundred percent sure of something and still be wrong. I am not trying to convince you that Christianity is the right way to go, i am just giving you a path to explore. One i am still exploring. Trust me, I have a lot of questions that I need answers to and unfortunately we are thought not to ask too much questions and just believe everything hook, line and sinker. But I am not buying that. I ask a lot of questions.
Now regarding Peter denying Jesus, it only strengthens my case. A guy who wasn't willing to die for with Christ before His death all of a sudden is willing to go to the grave for him after his resurrection. What about James the brother of Jesus, who was never a believer of the ministry of Jesus, all of a sudden after the resurrection became a strong apostle. Its unfair to compare them to suicide bombers because no one took all these apostles and brain washed them. They obviously all saw something which they believed was the risen Christ.
Now the fact that Jesus wasn't the first to give the golden rule doesn't change the fact that he gave this rule. That and so many other teachings that can shape us to be better people in life. And finally, you confuse Faith with Blind faith. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. And hearing isn't just listening to one money grabbing "pastor" talk, it involves your own personal research which about God which you are free to do.
And no. Faith is not subjective. Cuz many people interpret a thing differently doesn't mean there is no proper interpretation. You can't go to court and argue that the law is subjective. The law was made to be interpreted a particular way. Interpretation of the law in your own way won't hold water.
Now, I refuse to believe that everything we have now came out of nothing. So this means there has to be an external creator (God) and so far, I believe the Christian God has the best arguments and I want to believe in Him, I should believe in the Bible which is His word. Hence, I will have to believe in a talking donkey.

obinna58:

Of course we all knew that some of what he said occurs in every part of the world but some places are extremely worse,(eg Nigeria) Nigeria was used for a better and clear understanding, u mustn't just comment because u have to

MZ

Hi Mr.Obinna,
Long time..no see
Ummm......I absolutely understood what the guy was saying & that's what I was conveying. In no way was I saying that the U.S. could compare to Nigeria in terms of the "religion" problem. Is this your thread...with all due respect? You're young aren't you

MZLady39:


Hi Mr.Obinna,
Long time..no see
Ummm......I absolutely understood what the guy was saying & that's what I was conveying. In no way was I saying that the U.S. could compare to Nigeria in terms of the "religion" problem. Is this your thread...with all due respect? You're young aren't you

Seems u not aware of our own post, u were talking about religion, read well.

What made you think I'm so young?

MZ

Quite surprise seeing you on religious sc

obinna58:

Seems u not aware of our own post, u were talking about religion, read well.

What made you think I'm so young?

MZ

You are quite funny....telling me what I meant.
I know what I wrote & what I was trying to convey.
I was saying that I could understand that the guy was judging Christianity through Nigeria's eyes....although I didn't agree with his overall view of Christianity.
My apologies that you misunderstood.
So this is your thread sir
You act young..that's why I said it