obinna58:

Wow
Definitely ur ryt some prefer being physical but internet is where u can see more intelligent and high level personnel

No...I wouldn't say that more intelligent people are on the internet. But maybe you're speaking through the lense of Nigeria perhaps?
The intenet is a somewhat safe environment where people can remain anonymous and therefore feel free to express how they truly feel without consequences or fear of retaliation.

MZLady39:


Because God isn't a God of force. You have to decide that you want Him in your life. You are correct...He could do it in a second...however He has chosen to use humans & angels to take part in this special mission.
The only thing I've experienced is feeling held down in a dream...years ago. But I know what that was.

Remember he forced many people in the bible
Using humans and angels isn't it a way of playing game when bored since you know u can do it in a matter of second
If that z the only thing u av experienced in dream then you are just not serious with religion cos god must always reveal things at a spiritual level thereby u not spiritual

obinna58:

Remember he forced many people in the bible
Using humans and angels isn't it a way of playing game when bored since you know u can do it in a matter of second
If that z the only thing u av experienced in dream then you are just not serious with religion cos god must always reveal things at a spiritual level thereby u not spiritual

He never forced anybody in the Bible. Like I said, no one can make the decision for you. It seems that you may need to try God again. He's waiting.
As for you judging my relationship with Christ....well I'm glad He's the only Judge. You've misjudged me a whole lot this evening, but it's ok.
It will never change my stance...because you think I'm "not playing the part" well my brother.

MZLady39:



No...I wouldn't say that more intelligent people are on the internet. But maybe you're speaking through the lense of Nigeria perhaps?
The intenet is a somewhat safe environment where people can remain anonymous and therefore feel free to express how they truly feel without consequences or fear of retaliation.

U ryt about internet being more safer but wouldn't agree with u in terms of people visiting the internet

MZLady39:


He never forced anybody in the Bible. Like I said, no one can make the decision for you. It seems that you may need to try God again. He's waiting.
As for you judging my relationship with Christ....well I'm glad He's the only Judge. You've misjudged me a whole lot this evening, but it's ok.
It will never change my stance...because you think I'm "not playing the part" well my brother.

What about moses and Pharaoh
So what will I benefit if i try god as u said
Talking abt misjudge (I'm seriously confused) if u are very devoted to God then u must seen some revelations from him

obinna58:

What about moses and Pharaoh
So what will I benefit if i try god as u said
Talking abt misjudge (I'm seriously confused) if u are very devoted to God then u must seen some revelations from him

What about Moses & Pharoah
They both had free-will. They both had different positions...but they had free-will.
See what you are doing is trying to give me a "title", and then fit the criteria for it.
I have never claimed to be a
Prophetess
Evangelist
Dream/Vision Interpreter
Healer
Etc.
I am a woman who loves my Lord & who wants others to experience Him as I have.
I don't need a "title" to be used by God.

ilynem:

Well, i think someone who is wiling to die for a faith is hundred percent sure of it. Dont get me wrong, you can be hundred percent sure of something and still be wrong. I am not trying to convince you that Christianity is the right way to go, i am just giving you a path to explore. One i am still exploring. Trust me, I have a lot of questions that I need answers to and unfortunately we are thought not to ask too much questions and just believe everything hook, line and sinker. But I am not buying that. I ask a lot of questions.
Now regarding Peter denying Jesus, it only strengthens my case. A guy who wasn't willing to die for with Christ before His death all of a sudden is willing to go to the grave for him after his resurrection. What about James the brother of Jesus, who was never a believer of the ministry of Jesus, all of a sudden after the resurrection became a strong apostle. Its unfair to compare them to suicide bombers because no one took all these apostles and brain washed them. They obviously all saw something which they believed was the risen Christ.
Now the fact that Jesus wasn't the first to give the golden rule doesn't change the fact that he gave this rule. That and so many other teachings that can shape us to be better people in life. And finally, you confuse Faith with Blind faith. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. And hearing isn't just listening to one money grabbing "pastor" talk, it involves your own personal research which about God which you are free to do.
And no. Faith is not subjective. Cuz many people interpret a thing differently doesn't mean there is no proper interpretation. You can't go to court and argue that the law is subjective. The law was made to be interpreted a particular way. Interpretation of the law in your own way won't hold water.
Now, I refuse to believe that everything we have now came out of nothing. So this means there has to be an external creator (God) and so far, I believe the Christian God has the best arguments and I want to believe in Him, I should believe in the Bible which is His word. Hence, I will have to believe in a talking donkey.

I have not come out to say that there is no God. My understanding of God however is completely different to yours. I like to think of "God" as merely a creative force, the first cause, devoid of all the qualities like "all-loving", "all-powerful", "all-good" and so on. The evidence on ground suggests otherwise.

If your daughter lied you, would you cut off her hand? That would be nothing short of an egregious punishment. Yet we are made to believe that a "loving God" created an eternal hell for "his children" who are liars. Where's the justice in that?

A "loving God" who would sentence both a one-time liar and a notorious murderer like Hitler who killed 6 million Jews to the same punishment is unjust.

A "loving God" who can recline and "make the earth his footstool" while over 400 million children go a day without food is anything but loving.

A "loving God" who will discount all your good and fry you for all eternity for one lapse in judgement while discounting another person's life of evil and welcome him to Paradise just because he was smart enough to make a deathbed confession is anything but "all loving" or "all good".

A God who is powerless in the face of immense suffering, debilitating diseases like Huntington's Chorea, Parkinson's, cancer, only choosing to "heal" a few whenever he is in the mood is capricious and undeserving of any worship.

It takes more than faith to believe in that God, one also needs to be completely bereft of any common sense as well to do so!

You may choose to believe in it and that's fine, but the evidence against an "all powerful", "all wise" and "all loving" God is overwhelming. It takes "blind faith" and an ample amount of brainwashing to believe that such a powerful entity can't seem to fix the ills that plague our world.

Take care my friend.

Sheikwonder:



I have not come out to say that there is no God. My understanding of God however is completely different to yours. I like to think of "God" as merely a creative force, the first cause, devoid of all the qualities like "all-loving", "all-powerful", "all-good" and so on. The evidence on ground suggests otherwise.

If your daughter lied you, would you cut off her hand? That would be nothing short of an egregious punishment. Yet we are made to believe that a "loving God" created an eternal hell for "his children" who are liars. Where's the justice in that?

A "loving God" who would sentence both a one-time liar and a notorious murderer like Hitler who killed 6 million Jews to the same punishment is unjust.

A "loving God" who can recline and "make the earth his footstool" while over 400 million children go a day without food is anything but loving.

A "loving God" who will discount all your good and fry you for all eternity for one lapse in judgement while discounting another person's life of evil and welcome him to Paradise just because he was smart enough to make a deathbed confession is anything but "all loving" or "all good".

A God who is powerless in the face of immense suffering, debilitating diseases like Huntington's Chorea, Parkinson's, cancer, only choosing to "heal" a few whenever he is in the mood is capricious and undeserving of any worship.

It takes more than faith to believe in that God, one also needs to be completely bereft of any common sense as well to do so!

You may choose to believe in it and that's fine, but the evidence against an "all powerful", "all wise" and "all loving" God is overwhelming. It takes "blind faith" and an ample amount of brainwashing to believe that such a powerful entity can't seem to fix the ills that plague our world.

Take care my friend.

We will talk. But first let me correct this erroneous notion you have about God. Trust me, I have asked all these questions and I have looked for answers (still looking for more). God is an all loving God. At the same time he is a perfectly Just God. Now it is quite impossible for these two qualities to be attributed to one person. You can't be perfectly loving and perfectly just at the same time. Why? If you claim to be a perfectly Just father, you will punish every crime your daughter commits. But if you claim to be a perfectly loving father, you will actually let every crime go just because you love your daughter and can't stand to see her hurt. This is one of the paradoxes about God but the truth is, the Christian God actually combines both perfect Love and perfect Justice. How? John 3:16. Probably the first Bible verse you learnt.
For God so loved the world : now we both know "world" is used to describe sinners in the Bible. So God actually loved sinners and those who don't even believe in him. Imagine loving someone who doesn't love you back unconditionally.
That He gave His only son: Now, God is a just God. He won't let sin go unpunished. The wages of sin is death. So we have sinned, we have to die. That's a God of perfect Justice. But His love for us means that He never wanted us to die. So what did He do? Gave His own son for sinners who probably wouldn't love Him back. That's where the perfect Love comes to play. Imagine dying for people who don't even Love you. So my friend, God is a perfectly loving God.
Now I must tell you that we have been taught wrongly in our churches. It took me a long time to come to grip with this but let's apply common sense. If I lie and then go to hell, what was the point of Jesus' sacrifice?
Hebrews 10: 11-14. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.... For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
By one sacrifice, He has made perfect FOREVER, THOSE WHO ARE BEING MADE HOLY. We are not made perfect by our actions but by Jesus sacrifice. God has called us perfect. He has called us Holy, it is left for us to work towards what He has already made us. You became an Economist the day you got into Unilag, you just have to work towards it. On your way to being Holy and perfect, you will fall by the way side. You will lie, cheat, sin and all that. Will God punish you for that? Nooooooo. Jesus has paid for them forever. That was the point of His sacrifice.
You might ask, why are we told not to sin if Christ has paid for it already? While Jesus has paid for it, sin distorts our relationship with God and pulls us back from attaining that Holy nature. Paul said "will I continue to sin that grace may abound? God forbid". It doesn't just pull us back from attaining that Holy nature, there are also earthly consequences for sin. You can't go and slap a mopol and say Jesus has paid for your sin. He will beat your life. Whatever you sow, you reap. And let us look at sin in another angle. Do you realize that when you sin, you don't hurt God but yourself? You are told to avoid sin for your own good. Fornication can lead to so many things you don't want. Stealing can lead to punishment from the law of the land, lying can lead to lack of trust, name it. So you might ask, who then will go to hell? Let's go back to John 3:16.
" ...And whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life".
Read carefully. The condition for having everlasting life is BELIEVING. And when you believe, you are saved. Those who don't believe will end up in hell. Still that doesn't make God a bad God. Hell is choice. God has given you a chance to choose. Hell is meant for the Devil and his agents. If you are not for God, you are for the devil and that makes you his agent. I repeat. Hell is a choice. It is not God's plan for us at all.
Finally, you need to know that the greatest gift God has given to us is Love. But also, if there is Love, there should be an ability not to Love or else it becomes compulsion. Boko Haram, Isis, killings, rape and all these are born out of the choice not to Love. As humans we have graded evil. Killing gets a higher punishment than lying. But the truth is that, for God, evil is evil. It is either black or white, no middle ground. Evil came into the world when Adam sinned. If God is to wipe away every evil like natural disasters, then he will wipe out you and I too cuz everyday we commit evil. We lie, we cheat, etc.
Finally finally Steve, if we love our Lord our God and love our neighbors as ourselves, then there will be no starving Children. We still need to talk.

ilynem:

Well, i think someone who is wiling to die for a faith is hundred percent sure of it. Dont get me wrong, you can be hundred percent sure of something and still be wrong. I am not trying to convince you that Christianity is the right way to go, i am just giving you a path to explore. One i am still exploring. Trust me, I have a lot of questions that I need answers to and unfortunately we are thought not to ask too much questions and just believe everything hook, line and sinker. But I am not buying that. I ask a lot of questions.
Now regarding Peter denying Jesus, it only strengthens my case. A guy who wasn't willing to die for with Christ before His death all of a sudden is willing to go to the grave for him after his resurrection. What about James the brother of Jesus, who was never a believer of the ministry of Jesus, all of a sudden after the resurrection became a strong apostle. Its unfair to compare them to suicide bombers because no one took all these apostles and brain washed them. They obviously all saw something which they believed was the risen Christ.
Now the fact that Jesus wasn't the first to give the golden rule doesn't change the fact that he gave this rule. That and so many other teachings that can shape us to be better people in life. And finally, you confuse Faith with Blind faith. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. And hearing isn't just listening to one money grabbing "pastor" talk, it involves your own personal research which about God which you are free to do.
And no. Faith is not subjective. Cuz many people interpret a thing differently doesn't mean there is no proper interpretation. You can't go to court and argue that the law is subjective. The law was made to be interpreted a particular way. Interpretation of the law in your own way won't hold water.
Now, I refuse to believe that everything we have now came out of nothing. So this means there has to be an external creator (God) and so far, I believe the Christian God has the best arguments and I want to believe in Him, I should believe in the Bible which is His word. Hence, I will have to believe in a talking donkey.

I salute this post, not because I agree totally with it but the beginning of the post shows that the author is trying his best to be sincere

hopefulLandlord:


I salute this post, not because I agree totally with it but the beginning of the post shows that the author is trying his best to be sincere

I love to be open minded. It simply means i get to learn more.

Very interesting thread and very thoughtful opinions about humanity's reliance on religion. As a non believer who has read the bible I respect it for its attempt to harness human behavior however, the fact remains that all religions have the same fault; they dont know how Life works. Opium. It is an example of what Life can do to those who do not understand it. It activates Dopamine, the same hormone that produces happiness when someone smiles at you. But Opium in excess causes Desire dependancy and addiction. People lose control of their lives and not even religion can save you.

The fact is humanity is in despair because religion is not perfect and never will be. There is no god, no juses, no angels and demons. Only humans trying to find purpose. Before Jewish philosophers came up with a (mystery god) all cultures had idols which they had to guard so their enemies couldnt inflict the ultimate disrespect on them by destroying their god idol. If we could only begin to view Life as a living entity the same way we believe in illusions we could then begin to respect Life and understand its mechanisms. We could give up on wishful thinking and dreams of drinking milk and honey and walking on streets of gold in an illusionary place called heaven and work on making were we live a better place.

excadz:
Very interesting thread and very thoughtful opinions about humanity's reliance on religion. As a non believer who has read the bible I respect it for its attempt to harness human behavior however, the fact remains that all religions have the same fault; they dont know how Life works. Opium. It is an example of what Life can do to those who do not understand it. It activates Dopamine, the same hormone that produces happiness when someone smiles at you. But Opium in excess causes Desire dependancy and addiction. People lose control of their lives and not even religion can save you.

The fact is humanity is in despair because religion is not perfect and never will be. There is no god, no juses, no angels and demons. Only humans trying to find purpose. Before Jewish philosophers came up with a (mystery god) all cultures had idols which they had to guard so their enemies couldnt inflict the ultimate disrespect on them by destroying their god idol. If we could only begin to view Life as a living entity the same way we believe in illusions we could then begin to respect Life and understand its mechanisms. We could give up on wishful thinking and dreams of drinking milk and honey and walking on streets of gold in an illusionary place called heaven and work on making were we live a better place.

Perhaps, the incapability of men to exude "perfection" encourages her to misrepresent religion ( the God factor, paradise promise, hell warning or what have you). In it's pristine form , religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with those entities enlisted, cos it rather attempts to serve as a tool to engrave norms (good ones), ensure fairness and maximise societal potentials by capitulating morality over materialism thus maintaining some level of serenity. . . If it then employs tactics that keep adherents hope up to achieving this ultimate aim, Permit me to project religion as perhaps the most outstanding invention of manever. If however it isnt effective or in this medium encourages diversity and disparity, common sense should have it that a car that got into a fatal accident did not drive itself. The problem thus is not with religion (the car) but with the driver who had failed to follow all requirements and instructions peculiar to successfully driving and reaching the desired destination.

Righ

Frolic:
Perhaps, the incapability of men to exude "perfection" encourages her to misrepresent religion ( the God factor, paradise promise, hell warning or what have you). In it's pristine form , religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with those entities enlisted, cos it rather attempts to serve as a tool to engrave norms (good ones), ensure fairness and maximise societal potentials by capitulating morality over materialism thus maintaining some level of serenity. . . If it then employs tactics that keep adherents hope up to achieving this ultimate aim, Permit me to project religion as perhaps the most outstanding invention of manever. If however it isnt effective or in this medium encourages diversity and disparity, common sense should have it that a car that got into a fatal accident did not drive itself. The problem thus is not with religion (the car) but with the driver who had failed to follow all requirements and instructions peculiar to successfully driving and reaching the desired destination.

Righ

Perfection is a pursuit of one’s Conscience. Conscience encourages moral thinking so if someone endeavors to be perfect they will always weigh the morals of every action. Religions are operating systems filled with morals to guide us to perfection. We enforce our morals using Self-Discipline. Fasting, praying, and attending service to suppress our Desires.

I agree when you say that religion is not the problem, it’s the people who cannot follow the guidelines. However, my argument is that religions are filled with illusions and false promises therefore they produce unethical characteristics in people.

Examples. We are all afraid of death so religion promises eternal life. We all want wealth and influence so religion promises all those things in heaven. The promises of heaven are illusions, which causes people to do unethical things to achieve them. Europeans believe that all people need to know Jesus so they send missionaries to indoctrinate the indigenous people of the world. Besides spreading diseases they rape and molest boys and girls alike. The Arabs do the same with their Allah and go about killing those who will not submit.

Humans are imperfect therefore the only perfect Moral Interface (religion) should be one that protects Life at all costs.

excadz:


Perfection is a pursuit of one’s Conscience. Conscience encourages moral thinking so if someone endeavors to be perfect they will always weigh the morals of every action. Religions are operating systems filled with morals to guide us to perfection. We enforce our morals using Self-Discipline. Fasting, praying, and attending service to suppress our Desires.

I agree when you say that religion is not the problem, it’s the people who cannot follow the guidelines. However, my argument is that religions are filled with illusions and false promises therefore they produce unethical characteristics in people.

Examples. We are all afraid of death so religion promises eternal life. We all want wealth and influence so religion promises all those things in heaven. The promises of heaven are illusions, which causes people to do unethical things to achieve them. Europeans believe that all people need to know Jesus so they send missionaries to indoctrinate the indigenous people of the world. Besides spreading diseases they rape and molest boys and girls alike. The Arabs do the same with their Allah and go about killing those who will not submit.

Humans are imperfect therefore the only perfect Moral Interface (religion) should be one that protects Life at all costs.

There are two diseases of man that will always falsify the beauty of religion. One, greed which breeds arrogance and violence . Two, ignorance which spreads lies as facts and displays "what it seemed" as "exactly what it is"

If religion were totally disillusioned, believe me you illusions as greed and ignorance's friend; "web of disastrous lies" will completely take over and the whole system might (it wil!) totally collapse

Man has been long programmed to lust after fantasies , that's what keep him on his toes and at the same time under check. Religion and her "illusions" is a necessary lie!

Friend, do you believe there was a time before religions? How did people function in those times and why was religion a necessity to alter the way we lived before religion?

Greed and ignorance are not the products of a linear existance or inevitability. They are the product of manufactured desires like consumerism. Tell people that a paradise awaits but only a chosen few will see it. Then make it harder for people to live by mortgaging their land and every resource within it. Remember, the concept of land ownership was foreign to Africans before Europeans divided it up colonially. Now, subject people to hard labor and soon they begin to Desire the promise of Heaven. We exist in a false reality where unethical byproducts of a (survival of the fittest) mentality then has to be regulated by religions

@sheikwonder,

You have said it all!!! Religion is the "waste product" of cavemanistic speculations and imbecilic thought processes!!!