"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12

easymancfc, this disproves your claim that some people like the OT heroes some how rose up to go to Heaven.

DoctorAlien:
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccl. 9:10

easymancfc, there is no knowledge in the grave, GOD tells us. Paul himself tells us the manner in which we will be with the Lord(see 1 Thess. 4:16-17). How can that statement "and so shall we ever be with the Lord" make sense if Paul has been with the Lord before His second coming? The problem lies in the version from which you quoted, which twisted what Paul was really saying in Phil. 1:21-24.

Moreover, Christ said that He will come again to take His people to Himself, so that they can be where He is. Christ does not say that His people will go to Him at death. Paul agrees too in 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

point 1: Ecclesiastes 9:10 is the old testament which happened before the resurrection...
point 2: Ecclesiastes 9:6-12 talks about them not being aware of what happens "under the sun" not that they have no consciousness...
1 Peter 3 disproves that because it says Jesus went to the Souls in Prison which were of the old testament also... if they had no consciousness how could they listen to Christ's preaching...

Ephesians 4 continues the story
Ephesians 4: 8 Therefore it is said,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 

HOW CAN CHRIST LEAD UNCONSCIOUS DEAD PEOPLE IN THE GRAVE... LIKE PETER 3 SAYS UNLESS THEY ARE THE SOULS IN PRISON... AND WHERE DID HE DROP THEM WHEN HE ASCENDED... BECAUSE IT CLEARLY SAYS HE LEAD THEM WHEN HE ASCENDED...

there's no problem with the translation...

Philippians 1:22-24 King James Version
(KJV)
But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of
my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a
desire to depart, and to be with Christ;
which is far better:
Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more
needful for you.


NIV
22 If I am to go on living in the body,
this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet
what shall I choose? I do not know!
23 I am torn between the two: I
desire to depart and be with Christ,
which is better by far; 24 but it is
more necessary for you that I remain in
the body.

All of which say same thing... DEPART FROM THIS LIFE IS INDEED TO BE WITH CHRIST

DoctorAlien:
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12

easymancfc, this disproves your claim that some people like the OT heroes some how rose up to go to Heaven.

I DON SEE SOMETHING TODAY.. A PERSON USING OLD TESTAMENT VIEW OF DEAD TO DISPROVE NEW TESTAMENT...
THE POINT IS JOB DIDN'T HAVE THE REVELATION THAT THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS, OR MATHEW OR PETER HAD PERIOD...
again I emphasize
Moses was conscious, the cloud of witnesses are conscious, the 24 elders are conscious etc

easymancfc:
point 1: Ecclesiastes 9:10 is the old testament which happened before the resurrection...

I don't understand: did Eccl. 9:10 stop being true in the NT?

point 2: Ecclesiastes 9:6-12 talks about them not being aware of what happens "under the sun" not that they have no consciousness...

The Bible says there is no knowledge of any sort in the grave.

DoctorAlien:
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12

easymancfc, this disproves your claim that some people like the OT heroes some how rose up to go to Heaven.

going by this again therefore, there should be no resurrection "till the heaven be no more"
BUT ELIJAH RESURRECTED THE SON OF A WIDOW, JESUS RESSURECTED JAIRUS'S DAUGHTER, LAZARUS, WIDOW OF ZERAPHAT'S SON, ETC AND EVEN HIMSELF AND THE LASR TIME I CHECKED HEAVEN ( WHETHER SKY OR THE MAIN NEVER CEASE TO EXIST )...

easymancfc, the Bible passage in question is 1 Peter 3:18-20. The preaching was done "by the Spirit" (verse 18) in Noah's day--to people who were then living (verses 19, 20). The "spirits in prison" refers to people whose lives were in bondage to Satan. (See Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6, 7; 61:1; and Luke 4:18.)

DoctorAlien:
I don't understand: did Eccl. 9:10 stop being true in the NT?
The Bible says there is no knowledge of any sort in the grave.

My friend 1 Peter 3 refutes everything you say here...
better drop this Adventist teaching because it doesn't match up with the fullness of the new testament

easymancfc:


I DON SEE SOMETHING TODAY.. A PERSON USING OLD TESTAMENT VIEW OF DEAD TO DISPROVE NEW TESTAMENT...
THE POINT IS JOB DIDN'T HAVE THE REVELATION THAT THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS, OR MATHEW OR PETER HAD PERIOD...
again I emphasize
Moses was conscious, the cloud of witnesses are conscious, the 24 elders are conscious etc

This is GOD's view of the dead, not OT view. You know that Moses is the only person we're told GOD resurrected and took to Heaven.

DoctorAlien:
easymancfc, the Bible passage in question is 1 Peter 3:18-20. The preaching was done "by the Spirit" (verse 18) in Noah's day--to people who were then living (verses 19, 20). The "spirits in prison" refers to people whose lives were in bondage to Satan. (See Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6, 7; 61:1; and Luke 4:18.)

now you're trying to twist scripture... it clearly says Jesus "preached to" and where there is a preacher... there is a listener... of course it was done in the spirit because it didn't happen on earth... the point Is... THEY WERE CONSCIOUS PERIOD
.

DoctorAlien:


This is GOD's view of the dead, not OT view. You know that Moses is the only person we're told GOD resurrected and took to Heaven.

WRONG AGAIN... IT WAS JOBS VIEW... NOT GOD... the whole episode started In Job 13:20...

The new testament contains the fullness of revelation and it is GOD'S VIEW...

lie... Where does it say God resurrected Moses and took him to heaven?

easymancfc:


now you're trying to twist scripture... it clearly says Jesus "preached to" and where there is a preacher... there is a listener... of course it was done in the spirit because it didn't happen on earth... the point Is... THEY WERE CONSCIOUS PERIOD
.

The Bible said that Christ, through the Spirit, preached unto the spirits in prison "when once the longsuffering of GOD waited IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, WHILE THE ARK WAS A PREPARING..." 1 Pet. 3:18-20

How clear does it get?

DoctorAlien:


The Bible said that Christ, through the Spirit, preached unto the spirits in prison "when once the longsuffering of GOD waited IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, WHILE THE ARK WAS A PREPARING..." 1 Pet. 3:18-20

How clear does it get?

You are right.. very clear... PREACHED UNTO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON...
point is... HE PREACHED TO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON AND THEY BELIEVED WITH THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS... DON'T TRY TO SUGAR COAT IT...

New International Version
After being made alive, he went and made
proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--
New Living Translation
So he went and preached to the spirits in
prison--
English Standard Version
in which he went and proclaimed to the
spirits in prison,
Berean Study Bible
in which He also went and preached to the
spirits in prison
Berean Literal Bible
in which also having gone, He preached to
the spirits in prison
New American Standard Bible
in which also He went and made
proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
King James Bible
By which also he went and preached unto
the spirits in prison;

More blows to your erroneous beliefs, easymancfc:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." Psa. 115:17

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psa. 6:5

"For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth." Isa. 38:18

It seems GOD knew that many people will misinterpret the message He would pass through Peter and erroneously claim that Christ went to preach to spirits of dead people, and so He spoke through Isaiah that dead people cannot hope for GOD's truth. Now if that is the case that the dead cannot hope for GOD's truth, How could it be that Jesus went to preach this truth to dead people?

shadeyinka:


Immaturity in display: can't you discuss intelligently without being offensive?

I'm not being offensive. It is stupidity to say that a Catholic must be a Roman. I'm describing your opinion accurately.

Mcowubaba:


U say I get small Brain, my own better.

You are a brainwashed Sycophant and an Idol worshipper.

I keep giving you logical explanations, u keep dodging and blabbing up and down.

You keep making incoherent points and arguments.
So all those prayers (hail holy queen, memorare, holy rosary etc) were created by me, it's not in your yeye doctrine, nd no be your yeye Church leaders/founders write the doctrine

All those statues and sculptures of Mary was bought by me, no be your Reverend Fathers and Bishops dey buy them, put for a their various parishes.

You can only keep deluding yourself.
It would be stupid for me to keep arguing with you.
I'm done replying you... Go fuvk yourself

Proverbs 26:4
New Living Translation
Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are
I don't want to become a fool. So bye bye

All those dont mean we worship Mary as God. Just like protestants kneeling to Oyedepo praying to him and buying images of him dont mean they worship him as God.

You cannot force a deity on group of people. Let the people be the one to tell you who they worship.

Was Joshua worshipping the Ark or its images in that last pic?

Are those people in the pics worshipping a book made of paper and ink?

You need to do a course on using your brain.

Ubenedictus:
The thread has finally been derailed

They have to derail it na.

When we have seen that all their claims are based on fictitious sources.

The who brought up the Orthodox Church has seen that it even validates the Catholic Church.

The one who brought up Councils of Carthage and Trent has seen that it proves the Church compiled the Bible and didnt remove anything in 1548.

italo:


I'm not being offensive. It is stupidity to say that a Catholic must be a Roman. I'm describing your opinion accurately.

You are!

easymancfc:


Actually they do.. Original protestants do.. like the Lutherans, some Presbyterians and Methodists

"Original Protestants" ....ha ha ha ha

Thank God I am not protesting against anyone. I would have been a counterfeit Protester

DoctorAlien:
More blows to your erroneous beliefs, easymancfc:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." Psa. 115:17

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psa. 6:5

"For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth." Isa. 38:18

It seems GOD knew that many people will misinterpret the message He would pass through Peter and erroneously claim that Christ went to preach to spirits of dead people, and so He spoke through Isaiah that dead people cannot hope for GOD's truth. Now if that is the case that the dead cannot hope for GOD's truth, How could it be that Jesus went to preach this truth to dead people?

Using old testament to prove wrong what the new testament has proved right... I JUST PITY YOU...

KEEP ON HOLDING ON TO YOUR FALSE OLD TESTAMENT ADVENTIST BELIEF...

BECAUSE JOHN, PETER, PAUL, AND THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS DONT SHARE THAT VIEW...

ALL THE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES I HAVE GIVEN ARE QUITE CLEAR FOR ALL TO SEE,

PETER SAID CHRIST WENT TO PREACH TO SOULS IN PRISON,
HEBREW SAYS HE LEAD THOSE SOULS WHEN HE ASCENDED AND HE TALKS ABOUTS SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT IN HEAVEN AND A CLOUD OF WITNESSES

JOHN TALKS ABOUT 24 ELDERS WITH THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN, THE MARTYRS UNDER THE ALTAR, THE GREAT MULTITUDE

PAUL SAYS BEEN ABSENT FROM THE BODY IS TO BE WITH CHRIST

KEEP HOLDING ON TO OLD TESTAMENT THINGS...

I WILL HOLD ON TO NEW TESTAMENT REVELATION...

YOU CAN'T PROVE THE NEW TESTAMENT WRONG WITH THE OLD TESTAMENT..

.

shadeyinka:


"Original Protestants" ....ha ha ha ha

Thank God I am not protesting against anyone. I would have been a counterfeit Protester

Lol.. Martin Luther and his companions protested and they never rejected the title protestants... we may use it a little generally, but the point is that most other denominations that came after that broke out from Luther and his colleagues Churches... So in a sense, they are protestants atleast by association..

DoctorAlien:
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccl. 9:10

... there is no knowledge in the grave, GOD tells us. Paul himself tells us the manner in which we will be with the Lord(see 1 Thess. 4:16-17). How can that statement "and so shall we ever be with the Lord" make sense if Paul has been with the Lord before His second coming? The problem lies in the version from which you quoted, which twisted what Paul was really saying in Phil. 1:21-24.

Moreover, Christ said that He will come again to take His people to Himself, so that they can be where He is. Christ does not say that His people will go to Him at death. Paul agrees too in 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

You are wasting your time bro. These people's sheer ignorance and blindness of everything biblical, and even lacking of commonsense is really a heartbreak. It is no surprise anyway. All they know is to chant "Hail Mary".

Imagine such argument like "Mary didn't live in a tent". What foolishness! For goodness sake, a "tent" is simply a house! (1 Kings 12:16). Are these people saying that Mary their god didn't live in a house?

You've really tried, and I commend your efforts. As for me, I'm with the scriptural admonition that "all foolish arguments must be avoided".

Splinz:


You are wasting your time bro. These people's sheer ignorance and blindness of everything biblical, and even lacking of commonsense is really a heartbreak. It is no surprise anyway. All they know is to chant "Hail Mary".

Imagine such argument like "Mary didn't live in a tent". What foolishness! For goodness sake, a "tent" is simply a house! (1 Kings 12:16). Are these people saying that Mary their god didn't live in a house?

You've really tried, and I commend your efforts. As for me, I'm with the scriptural admonition that "all foolish arguments must be avoided".

See who is talking about ignorance...

Tent doesn't always mean a house, though it can be a temporary dwelling tent are also used in worship for keeping the ark etc...

We know Mary didn't live in a tent... so concerning the context of Judges 5 Mary is not a tent woman...

BESIDES THAT THE GREATNESS OF A PERSON IS SEEN IN WHAT THEY DID
WHICH PURPOSE IS GREATER THEN

KILLING SISERA OR GIVING BIRTH TO AND RAISING JESUS CHRIST....
We don't need your errors, keep you Sabbath worship and soul sleep to yourselves

DoctorAlien:


1 Thess. 4:16 says the "dead in Christ" will rise when Christ returns, not bodies. How can a soul be in Heaven and bodies resurrect when Christ comes back? The soul is not separate from the body.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
New International Version
and the dust returns to the ground it came
from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. You need to read the bible more.

The bible says that after you die, you body goes to dust but you SPIRIT goes back to God.

On the last day God will raise the body from the dust and put back the spirit.

Ubenedictus:
Ecclesiastes 12:7
New International Version
and the dust returns to the ground it came
from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. You need to read the bible more.

The bible says that after you die, you body goes to dust but you SPIRIT goes back to God.

On the last day God will raise the body from the dust and put back the spirit.

I want to correct the first mistake you made: the Bible doesn't call it "my" or "your" spirit; it calls it "the" spirit. The spirit belongs to GOD.

What then is that spirit? We can be sure that it is not a conscious being. The spirit that returns to GOD is simply the breath of life which He gave in Genesis 2:7. That spirit + body = soul, Gen. 2:7 tells us.

"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of GOD is in my nostrils;" Job 27:3

Job points out that the spirit of GOD is in His nostrils. Surely the spirit is not a conscious being, because the only thing in our nostrils is breath.

DoctorAlien:


Gen. 2:7 KJV defines "soul" as a combination of body and breath of life. Therefore SOUL = BODY + BREATH.

Just like GOD said the blood of Abel was crying unto Him out of the ground, the things which these men suffered demand justice.

hehehe

You are cherry picking are you aware d bible also translates soul as dead body?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead (nephesh, psuche) among his people" (Lev. 21:1).

DoctorAlien:


I want to correct the first mistake you made: the Bible doesn't call it "my" or "your" spirit; it calls it "the" spirit. The spirit belongs to GOD.

What then is that spirit? We can be sure that it is not a conscious being. The spirit that returns to GOD is simply the breath of life which He gave in Genesis 2:7. That spirit + body = soul, Gen. 2:7 tells us.

"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of GOD is in my nostrils;" Job 27:3

Job points out that the spirit of GOD is in His nostrils. Surely the spirit is not a conscious being, because the only thing in our nostrils is breath.

if you want to do that gynastics/ the bible also calls the soul a dead body.
"Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead (nephesh, psuche" (Num. 5:2)

Ubenedictus:
hehehe

You are cherry picking are you aware d bible also translates soul as dead body?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead (nephesh, psuche) among his people" (Lev. 21:1).

Surely the soul can die. A soul is simply a life. Isn't it very clear from Gen. 2:7 that a soul is not a sort of thing that escapes the body when a person dies?

The Bible calls fishes and animals souls too. Does it mean that they have a conscious form which exits their body at death?

DoctorAlien:


I want to correct the first mistake you made: the Bible doesn't call it "my" or "your" spirit; it calls it "the" spirit. The spirit belongs to GOD.

What then is that spirit? We can be sure that it is not a conscious being. The spirit that returns to GOD is simply the breath of life which He gave in Genesis 2:7. That spirit + body = soul, Gen. 2:7 tells us.

"All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of GOD is in my nostrils;" Job 27:3

Job points out that the spirit of GOD is in His nostrils. Surely the spirit is not a conscious being, because the only thing in our nostrils is breath.

faulty interpretation of old testament again...

Hebrews 12:23 talks about us coming to spirits of just men made perfect... how can we come to "breath" that has no consciousness...

1 Peter 3 again talks about Christ preaching to spirits in prison... was he preaching to "breath" that has no consciousness...

stole twisting scripture around.. you have no case...

DoctorAlien:


Surely the soul can die. A soul is simply a life. Isn't it very clear from Gen. 2:7 that a soul is not a sort of thing that escapes the body when a person dies?

The Bible calls fishes and animals souls too. Does it mean that they have a conscious form which exits their body at death?

Question for you...
what happens if a person dies in an explosion is his soul also blown to pieces with his body since they can't be separated... do the pieces of guts and bones and blood contain smaller pieces of the soul in them...

what if a person is eaten by a shark, is his soul eaten with the flesh too, when the shark defecates, is the soul part of the faeces too.. since they can't be separated...

THE HUMAN SOUL CANNOT DIE BECAUSE IT COMES DIRECTLY FROM GOD, THE HUMAN SOUL IS IMMORTAL, DEATH OR SECOND DEATH FOR THE SOUL IS ETERNAL DAMNATION...
NOT CEASING FROM EXISTENCE..

DoctorAlien:


Gen. 2:7 KJV defines "soul" as a combination of body and breath of life. Therefore SOUL = BODY + BREATH.

Just like GOD said the blood of Abel was crying unto Him out of the ground, the things which these men suffered demand justice.

actually you are wrong, the bible calls a dead body that has no breath a soul, and an soul can be alive without the body.
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (psuche): but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul (psuche) and body in hell" (Mat. 10:28)

Splinz:


You are wasting your time bro. These people's sheer ignorance and blindness of everything biblical, and even lacking of commonsense is really a heartbreak. It is no surprise anyway. All they know is to chant "Hail Mary".

Blame God for that. He is the one who first said "Hail Mary," through his Angel.

Splinz:

Imagine such argument like "Mary didn't live in a tent". What foolishness! For goodness sake, a "tent" is simply a house! (1 Kings 12:16). Are these people saying that Mary their god didn't live in a house?

Not "a tent." Mary wasnt in "THE TENT." Mary, the Mother of God, never lived in the tent in Judges 5.

easymancfc:


Question for you...
what happens if a person dies in an explosion is his soul also blown to pieces with his body since they can't be separated... do the pieces of guts and bones and blood contain smaller pieces of the soul in them...

what if a person is eaten by a shark, is his soul eaten with the flesh too, when the shark defecates, is the soul part of the faeces too.. since they can't be separated...

Your questions assume a premise: that the soul is different from the body. Gen. 2:7 tells that soul = body + breath. So, when a person is blown to pieces, the spirit(breath) which GOD gave returns to Him, while the body returns to dust.