Syncan:


When Ignorance speaks, it's not difficult to recognize. The Gospel you wrest to your own destruction, the church preserved and preached it to your heathen fathers. The bible you misinterpret; the Church "Your Idolaters" compiled and told you it is God's word.

UjSizzle:
It's unnecessary arguments like this that makes me weep for the church. When Christ prayed for unity among the saints in John 17, I'm certain he did not intend for it to become a denominational battle.

You all need to let go of denominational Christianity. Stop boasting about your doctrines and church and centuries old traditions, and start boasting about Christ himself and his finished work.

Y'all are exhausting. I don't even know how many of the people arguing here are yet to detach themselves from their parent's apron and know God for themselves. When you do, then you'll stop making blanket statements like "I'm a [insert denomination] till I die." You will genuinely begin to understand what the apostle was talking about in Romans 8:28-30 and Christ in John15:16.

Stop glorifying your denomination above God. It's an ignorant and stupid act.

Youdondeymad:
A free thinker is someone who thinks for him/herself,they don't accept what pastor,daddy and mommy told them about the origins of the universe.They ask questions and think deeply,they believe that the affairs of human beings should be governed not by faith in the supernatural but by a reliance on reason and evidence adduced from the natural world.I have modified the former post,check it.


3

Syncan:


That is where your error lies. A book comprising of writings the Church gathered together after 300 years, and told you it contains inspired word of God, is now your foundation of truth, yet the book itself tells you that the Church instead is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3:15. Aren't you ignorant?

omojeesu:


(I)1 Timothy 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The 'house of God' = 'the church'

The 'church' (is) of (i. e. belongs to) THE LIVING GOD, WHO is the pillar and ground (foundation) of the truth.

God is the pillar and ground (base, basis) of the Truth.

Jesus says, He is '....the Truth'.
The Bible says, 'Thy word is Truth'.
It also says in John 3:33: He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is TRUE.

(II) Back up your assertion that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth with other scriptures.

(III) You're yet to give me a Bible scripture justifying canonisation of saints.

(IV) I am a saint since I got born again.

(V) By your comment, you've proved me right that you guys place your religion, tradition and institution ABOVE THE WORD OF GOD, EVEN GOD (Because the Word of God is God).

The Church is the assembly of saints saved by grace with all their imperfections.

omojeesu:


(I)1 Timothy 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The 'house of God' = 'the church'

The 'church' (is) of (i. e. belongs to) THE LIVING GOD, WHO is the pillar and ground (foundation) of the truth.

God is the pillar and ground (base, basis) of the Truth.

Jesus says, He is '....the Truth'.
The Bible says, 'Thy word is Truth'.
It also says in John 3:33: He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is TRUE.

(II) Back up your assertion that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth with other scriptures.

(III) You're yet to give me a Bible scripture justifying canonisation of saints.

(IV) I am a saint since I got born again.

(V) By your comment, you've proved me right that you guys place your religion, tradition and institution ABOVE THE WORD OF GOD, EVEN GOD (Because the Word of God is God).

The Church is the assembly of saints saved by grace with all their imperfections.

Syncan:


Do you see as you are making your own commandment different from God's? Where did God say in his Commandment "Except I tell you to", which other of the ten commandment did God contradict, as you now claim He contradicted His own commandment in the case of the ark and the the bronze serpent, hence He changes His laws. Note how you portray God as one that Changes his precepts, Our God's commandments are all of them sure, they stand firm for ever and ever Psalm 111:7-8. You are wresting scripture to your destruction, when you don't know something or you get confused, simply ask nicely and you'll receive knowledge.

Syncan:



Just think of the way someone had to be knighted before you use Sir for him, while Sir is still a respectful form of address used for men. If you can understand this example, it will be clear to you.

JMAN05:


nothing like knight in the bible. So i dont understand.

Ontarget:

This is not about God contradicting himself. God didn't contradict himself. God is the one who made the laws, so the laws doesn't apply to him. The laws are made for us his subjects to follow. So God has the right to do anything even if it is contrary to the law he gave us.

JMAN05:


nothing like knight in the bible. So i dont understand.

Mujaheeeden:
I see you being made a saint before Mother Theresa

2dugged:
if that happens, I deserve it,after all no human is more prefect than the other, if a mere mortal can determine who is a saint, I too have the right to declare myself a saint

Syncan:



1. Ignorance isn't something you boast with,I am not here to teach you how to read English. Find out the use of coma in a sentence and read again that passage. You can actually remove "which is the church of the living God" and still have a complete sentence.... The pillar and foundation of truth is the Church, arguing over this doesn't do you good. But am not here to teach you how to read English.

2. Jesus Established the church himself and the gates of hell will never overcome it Matt.16:18, to the church he promised the Holy spirit which will lead her members "into all truth" Jn.16:12-13. Since you agree and wrote above that Jesus is the truth, Note now therefore that Jesus told the Church "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" Luke 10:16 I could go on and on.

3. First, what do you understand by canonization of saints. Secondly, show me a single passage that says everything the church does must be found written in the bible (that the church compiled and canonized).

4. I do not doubt you at all. However words in English-and indeed many other languages- do often have more than one application. I am sure the word "Saint" does too. You can thank me for teaching you this.

5. In as much as this is a false accusation based on limited knowledge, you should go back and read the bible we gave you; for it is written thus Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 2Thess.2:15

I have no problem with your definition of the church, but you must add this "who preach one gospel, profess one baptism, under one shepherd Eph.4:5, and traced to the apostles Matt.16:18.

omojeesu:


Go on with you religion. Your images, your rosaries, your purgatory, papacy, mariolatory, apparitions, etc, etc not found in the Bible you 'gave us'.

Good luck. Eternity awaits!

Jesus is Lord!

Syncan:


This is exactly how fundamentalists reason, that's why they kill people in the name of God.

Nofuckgiven:

You are really a big fool! So you don't do harvest in your church? Is it only in Catholic church they do harvest?? Your brain is really paining you!! Even during harvest no one forces anyone to make donations. To even make it easier,pledges are even made which are paid overtime. Some people take up to a year to pay their pledges(more like installmentally)because they are not forced to do it!

Ontarget:

You have gone beyond the scope of the subject at hand.

xxxtedyxxx:


[s]lol...so my post really pained you? see how you just justified how stupid you can be. I don't do harvest in my church? what kind of slowpoke are you? what's so hard to understand that the concept of gambling and useless donations during harvest is wrong? did I say it's only catholic churches that do harvest? mumu. Your understanding is really impaired. keep justifying your gambling and foolish donations in the house of God.

The basic concept remains the same. All the donations/tithe/offering are just different ways to an end- to milk the congregation.
[/s]

Lilimax:
Otito diri Jeso na ndu ebebe Amen. Otito diri Jeso na ndu ebebe Amen. I remember those days...

Nofuckgiven:

Utter nonsense and trash of the highest order.
You are the one who is most pained. Is it your donations? Stingy fool!! Are you richer than those who you claim are being milked?? At least,it was not forced with some verses in the Bible that are used in these new generation churches to make people pay tithes and other donations. You can keep hating till you die but the Catholic church would always stand not due to any other thing but their benevolence and charity!! They give back more than they take from the society! Obviously,you are a stupid atheist like the others who deceive themselves daily on religious thread here. You can keep wallowing in your self denial,that is your stupid and fucki.ng business but I and others who chose to donate do so out of our own freewill without been coerced with anything!!
For your mind you actually sound enlightened!! Just go and die,you lack spiritual insight!! After when you have nightmares,you still scream Jesus! Hypocritical being!!

xxxtedyxxx:


[s]blah blah....Complete gibberish.

You don take am personal?

oloshi....

so other chuches don't go charity?

Get Lost.... slowpoke

Nofuckgiven:
[/s]
Product of a Leaking Condom= worthless piece of trash!! You are as good as a decayed lump of faeces I am done with this loser! Leave trash for LAWMA!

easymancfc:


ALL CHRISTIANS ARE SAINTS, BUT SOME CAN FALL AWAY AND RELINQUISH THAT TITLE SO UNTIL YOU'RE ACTUALLY IN HEAVEN YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY BE DECLARED A SAINT....

JMAN05:


Is this a church thing, and not scripture?

I mean, it is true people who showed faith initially can on the way lose faith. In fact, many won't succeed in being saved. That's true. The scripture even shows that the first shall be the last, and that the love of the greater number will cool off, but Jesus knowing all these still uses saint for Christians while still on earth. Don't you think that there isn't a need for all that declaration since Jesus himself understands that some will lose the race? We cant say that he made a mistake wit d use of dt term dt we can correct. Can we?

Secondly, how do u know who went to heaven? Do we know that more than Jesus ?

Syncan:


The scripture belongs to the Church. Keep looking for Jesus's mistake, you're on a long thing my brother. You're just arguing with yourself, saint means holy one. It is used for God's people here on earth to indicate their aspiration to perfection, their willingness to live a holy life and a reflection of their state on receiving the merits of Christ sacrifice through baptism. It doesnt remove the fact that heaven is still the eternal abode of these earthly saints among whom some may fall. Those in heaven cannot fall, they are at the summit of holiness, Even scripture called heaven the place of the "just made perfect" Heb.12:23. Hence no one deserves the name Holy one/ Saint more than them. People on earth even acknowledge this in their speech as we've often hear people say " Am not a saint..."and they are very right.

How the church knows who went to heaven? Jesus is the head of the Church, He also reigns in heaven as king. Am amazed you could consider this something impossible for Jesus to reveal, who while on earth himself revealed Abraham as not being in a place of suffering.

JMAN05:


Syncan, you are basically stretching the issue as if its a quarrel. I do not reject the fact that some on earth could turn bad after being saints and that for someone to make heaven, it means his sainthood is quite established than any who likely may fail. However, Jesus knows all these and he assigns those on earth as saints, not when they die. Ones addressed as saints on earth are faithful ones, not those who have deviated and had to be disfellowshiped. So why declare saint when they go to heaven as if they were anything less while on earth. We shouldnt put the word "saint" in degrees. The scripture didnt use it that way. IF you are referred as saint by the bible, you are a saint. God and Jesus knew humans were imperfect before He used the word on them.

Making a special declaration of sainthood, will be contra to God's view. Now, when I see people use saint as if it refers to someone in heaven, you then see the wrong message this practice has caused. Some or even many would no longer know how Jesus, our Leader, used and wants the term to be used. Dont you see that challenge?

Phil 1:1
Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus,
To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons
NIV

1 Cor 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

As in all the congregations of the saints,
NIV

Syncan:


Its no quarrel at all o, just that when you guys try everything to disparage the Church, you simply miss the point. Jesus appointed twelve apostles, the appostles elected Mattias to replace Judas Ischariot Acts1:23, the names of the twelve are written in heaven as seen in Rev.21:14. However St. Paul still used the name apostle in referring to himself 1Cor.15:9. He was not one of the twelve appointed by Jesus while on earth, neither was he elected by the apostles. So is it that when you name the twelve appostles, you now confuse yourself with Paul, or God is now a God of disorder for that reason. See how hard you're working to say the church is wrong for calling holy ones in heaven saints because it was used for those on earth, I just tire for you folks.

italo:


Is JMAN05 saying that Christians who die holy cease to become saints at death?

Or is he saying they continue to be saints but the Church is wrong to say they are saints?

I dont get these people o