I didn't drop that to generate an argument or stir up antagonist from different quarters. I said what is on my mind and i never said if i believed it or not.

So Nice2have,its just a catholic doctrine

oh i see

yeah i know its a catholic doctrine, i hope you are not offended by my post, sometimes i have a weird sense of humor

I sometimes have a weird sence of imagination

mosaic2:

the Bible was written by man, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit..it's not just stuff that they came up with off the top of their heads. that's why even though the Bible was written over a long period of time and by many authors, all the prophecies made are the same throughout and do not contradict one other

If the bible was written by man, then they could be making up parts of it. It is easy to make things consistent. If you have copy of the bible up to Leviticus, and you are writing Numbers, you just read all of the previous stuff and make sure you don't contradict anything that is aleady there. How do you think people write book series where there are hundreds of books in the series?

mosaic2:

we all get replies if we believe enough and have faith--we just have to wait for the right time. we usually think all hope is gone and that God is not listening to us when we ask for something and we don't get it, but that's only because we don't know what He knows, because our knowledge is so limited, so what we think of as being the right place and time for a sign or an answer might not be the right time at all.

See, that is the problem, faith. What is the definition of faith, a belief in something you cannot prove. A belief in something for which nobody can verify its existence. If I must believe God exists by FAITH, then shouldn't I be able to believe in anything else by FAITH too? Why is it that God has a monopoly on faith? There is no textbook definiton of faith which says it can only be used for God.

Further more, if the only way I can know that God exists is by having faith, wouldn't that mean that for a vast number of people, God doesn't exist. If he only exists for people that believe in him, wouldn't that relegate God to being something like the aliens that supposed crashlanded on earth in Roswell, New Mexico (USA)? There are groups of people who are convinced it happened, the rest of the world asks for proof, and they cannot come up with anything other than "the government is hiding the truth".

GOD is nature.. Heaven and Hell is a state of mind.. think about the most happiest moment of your life when things are going great you have money your at peace with your thinking pattern you happy that is the Heaven part of life.. Think of the bad times when your not content, sad you have all these negative thoughts in your head. you can not get rid of that thinking pattern... that is the Hell part, that burning in fire hot wata ect what ever you want to call it.... The devil is the negative part or the human and the positive is the good side of human.. God is the force that keep things going.. we are all sparks of ?GOD don't be afraid to tell yourself that... that is not to say you don't believe in yourself or something great.. if we can open our mind and not limit yourself to what men right we can be much smarter... Think about it

SCATTA-UNA:

GOD is nature.. Heaven and Hell is a state of mind.. think about the most happiest moment of your life when things are going great you have money your at peace with your thinking pattern you happy that is the Heaven part of life.. Think of the bad times when your not content, sad you have all these negative thoughts in your head. you can not get rid of that thinking pattern... that is the Hell part, that burning in fire hot wata ect what ever you want to call it.... The devil is the negative part or the human and the positive is the good side of human.. God is the force that keep things going.. we are all sparks of ?GOD don't be afraid to tell yourself that... that is not to say you don't believe in yourself or something great.. if we can open our mind and not limit yourself to what men right we can be much smarter... Think about it

So I can change the words heaven, hell, and God in your post to be dark side, light side, and the force. And your post could be a speech being given to some jedi cadets.

(this implicitly means that there are multiple interpretations of states of being, you didn't indicate anything which really separates you from a jedi).

Hey Guys! I think it's past your bed time!

there r so many things that make us belive in God simple things of life the very fact hat we wake up is a miracle but most people want to see such things like the partin of the red sea which even if they saw they'll think science has some thing to do with it.and why does every 1 condem the roman catholic church most of u have never attended a mass but yet u condem what's practised in a church u've never set foot in.something i've noticed people tend to condem what's rite.

The great nature, the cause of existence, the force that propells the universe, the spirit deep within the life of all that live, the source of life, You can feel it in the air we breath, and see IT in the sun that shine in the sky, the soil that produce plants and fruits of the season, the energy the produces light and. We feel the supernatural presence but we are just too small to see the entirety of IT.

From the day we were born, we began to search for something, something that is within but seam missen, near and far at the same time that something is GOD

IT has been given different names in different cultures and people have made different images to describe it.

allonym:

If the bible was written by man, then they could be making up parts of it...It is easy to make things consistent. If you have copy of the bible up to Leviticus, and you are writing Numbers, you just read all of the previous stuff and make sure you don't contradict anything that is aleady there.

by man through the Holy Spirit. man was completely inspired by the word of God, they didn't make up any of it.  and who says that the writers of the New Testament had copies of the sections of the Old Testament?

Further more, if the only way I can know that God exists is by having faith, wouldn't that mean that for a vast number of people, God doesn't exist.

God exists whether people choose to believe in Him or not

"mosaic2":

God exists whether people choose to believe in Him or not

We all know that even the scientist, that God exist.  The question is how do you define God?  The Religious way? Or the Scientist way?

By the way, I like your name Mosaic, it reminds me one of the first web browsers before Netscape came out.

thank you

mosaic2:

by man through the Holy Spirit. man was completely inspired by the word of God, they didn't make up any of it.

How do you know this? Nobody can know for sure? So, you have to BELIEVE in this, just as you believe in God. The whole thing is self sustaining.

mosaic2:
and who says that the writers of the New Testament had copies of the sections of the Old Testament?

Who says they didnt?

allonym:

How do you know this? Nobody can know for sure? So, you have to BELIEVE in this, just as you believe in God. The whole thing is self sustaining.
Who says they didnt?

Allonym, you dont have to believe the bible is the word of God, you dont have to believe there is a God either, what is important is for you to have heard at sometime the truth, and you argued it and rejected it.

of course the writers of the new testament have access to scripts from the old testament, they use it in their worship in the temples and synagogues.

That's right dear... preach it!

nicetohave:

Allonym, you don't have to believe the bible is the word of God, you don't have to believe there is a God either, what is important is for you to have heard at sometime the truth, and you argued it and rejected it.

of course the writers of the new testament have access to scripts from the old testament, they use it in their worship in the temples and synagogues.

Of course, this is under the assumption that you are actually bearing truth and not lies.

Truth is able to stand on its own. You don't need any convincing to understand it. Truth does not deceive. So, if I am unconvinced, that suggests there is some untruth in your message.

How can somene who does not know truth attempt to define truth?

How can a blind man attempt to describe light?

2 Corinthians 4:3-4

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

@ donnie

And what kind of epistemiological foundations does your version of the truth have? It's only self-referential I suspect and because of that a closed system that does not allow external questioning. Of course, then you need to look into the merits of said system at predicting the workings of the natural world. It seems that your system is a little bit off the mark in that regard.

All those bogus words will not cover up the fact that you are blind to truth, reality, which is beyond the senses, from which all else that is seen derive their existence.

donnie:

All those bogus words will not cover up the fact that you are blind to truth, reality, which is beyond the senses, from which all else that is seen derive their existence.

Is that all you can offer, donnie? You are just making a claim that cannot be investigated. I would rather say it's the little purple monsters inhabiting the moon that cause all this. They are there, they are just so clever that they hide every time we try to observe them. Prove me wrong. My claim to truth is just as valid as yours. The only difference is that your claim is supported by tradition.

I would rather say it's the little purple monsters inhabiting the moon that cause all this. They are there, they are just so clever that they hide every time we try to observe them.

No, it's the Holy Coconut! *Rolling on the floor with laughter!*

Is it just me, or am i really smelling burning flesh?? lol

4-1-94ever:

Is it just me, or am i really smelling burning flesh??

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen

Seun:

No, it's the Holy Coconut! *Rolling on the floor with laughter!*

holy coconut?

hi everybody i'd just thought id put in my two cents. I am a christian i guess, I beleive in the bible and creation and stuff, so that could be tons of religons but i sum it up under christianity i guess because that is closest to what i believe heh. these are strictly my opinion and im no scholar or proffesor, this is just what i think about God and the Bible. I am also not a good debator so don't expect to get any replys out of me.
most people always wonder why God "makes" good people suffer with diseases and whatever. In the Bible God created the world as perfect, when Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying god he punished them by allowing diseases,pain,suffering, etc. . So if you want to blame somebody blame Adam and Eve.

Also people wonder why God allows wars, rape, and murder. Basically God gives man the ability to make a choice. Its not that he is allowing evil people to do evil things but he is allowing evil people to have their own mind and make a choice. otherwise we would all be mindless robots walking around doing everything God wants.

as far as evolution goes i don't really believe in it. All things evolve but i don't think to such a great extent to where man evolved from piles of goo. over time man has evolved from wearing sheep skins to building cars and sky scrapers, so thats proof of some type of evolution, but i sill don't think we evolved from amoebas. they say we are related to monkeys because we look the same, well then i could just say im related to will smith because i look like him, sadly. but we all are kind of related to each other based on creation so who knows on that one eh?

some people don't like to believe in God becuase they don't like the fact that he punishes you, if you don't follow him you go to hell!! you sin without repenting you go to hell! well that happens everywhere. you steal something you go to jail, you kill someone you go to jail, you run over cats then use their bodies as door mats you get in trouble with the old lady across the street!!

some people say that the Bible was just thought up by a bunch of bored boys over the past couple thousand years, seriously the Bible was written over a time span of 1500 years, you really think that each one of the authors in the Bible was like "Oh heres a peice of the old testament written 300 years ago, I think ill add on to it just for the hell of it!", come on!! the Bible was written by man, but had to be inspired by God,

as far a cussing goes, i really do not see it as a sin. the Lord says do not let anything unholy come from your mouth, but i do not see cussing as unholy. I do however see using the Lords name in vain as a sin, ex: (Jesus Christ! God damn it!) but as far as f**k, s**t, a**, or b****. simply words that man has tweeked into using offensively. I use these words around my friends or family, but not around peole who i might offend. It is simply society saying these are "bad" words rather than the christian faith. but, monkey see monkey do.

and heres an intresting thought, everyone knows about the flood right? most people don't believe it exists and all that, but there have been fossils found in high mountain ranges of sharks, whales, and other animals not indigenous to those areas.

so thats my two cents, just what i think anyways. as far as that list stating all the quotes from famous people that denied God, i think its a bad example to use because i'm pretty sure that has happened to lots of people and then again not happened to lots of people. if you boys don't believe in God then fine, I'll pray for you. just remember what happens if your wrong, we'll all see in the end.

Kerby:

hi everybody i'd just thought id put in my two cents. I am a christian i guess, I beleive in the bible and creation and stuff, so that could be tons of religons but i sum it up under christianity i guess because that is closest to what i believe heh. these are strictly my opinion and im no scholar or proffesor, this is just what i think about God and the Bible. I am also not a good debator so don't expect to get any replys out of me.
most people always wonder why God "makes" good people suffer with diseases and whatever. In the Bible God created the world as perfect, when Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying god he punished them by allowing diseases,pain,suffering, etc. . So if you want to blame somebody blame Adam and Eve.

That makes absolutely no sense, especially if the Adam and Eve tale is taken as a literal account. Why blame Adam and Eve for a situation that was clearly staged by an omniscient being? Beside, what is the sense in punishing evey descendant of Adam and Eve, especially as the descendents had nothing to do with Adam and Eve's "sin"?

as far as evolution goes i don't really believe in it. All things evolve but i don't think to such a great extent to where man evolved from piles of goo.

From piles of goo? Never heard that evolutionary theory before, care to expand on that a little?

over time man has evolved from wearing sheep skins to building cars and sky scrapers, so thats proof of some type of evolution, but i sill don't think we evolved from amoebas.

First, going from sheepskin etc, is not evolution (at least not biological, which is what you're talking about); also the evidence does suggest that we share a common ancestor.

they say we are related to monkeys because we look the same,

No they don't. They say we are related to monkeys, great apes, etc, because that' what the evidence shows.

well then i could just say im related to will smith because i look like him, sadly.

You are related to Will Smith though.

but we all are kind of related to each other based on creation so who knows on that one eh?

What kind of creation are you talking about?

some people don't like to believe in God becuase they don't like the fact that he punishes you, if you don't follow him you go to hell!! you sin without repenting you go to hell! well that happens everywhere. you steal something you go to jail, you kill someone you go to jail, you run over cats then use their bodies as door mats you get in trouble with the old lady across the street!!

, and some don't believe in the christian God for a myriad of other reasons. However, it does seem odd to me that a supposedly omnibenevolent and omniscient God has no problem with damning the vast majority of his beloved creatures, to an infinite punishment for finite "sins", with some of the sins no more than believing in a theology not promoted by the christian God.

some people say that the Bible was just thought up by a bunch of bored boys over the past couple thousand years, seriously the Bible was written over a time span of 1500 years, you really think that each one of the authors in the Bible was like "Oh heres a peice of the old testament written 300 years ago, I think ill add on to it just for the hell of it!", come on!! the Bible was written by man, but had to be inspired by God,

probably more apt to say that the Bible was put together by a council of people who decided what was Godly, and disregarded many writings they felt were anti what they thought christianity was about, hell they even rejected some of the other writings of those they already included in their cannon.

and heres an intresting thought, everyone knows about the flood right? most people don't believe it exists and all that, but there have been fossils found in high mountain ranges of sharks, whales, and other animals not indigenous to those areas.

Balderdash! By the way, the world wide flood concept has been falsified for centuries, and it was first falsified by a group comprising of mostly christians.

sorry i wasn't clear on some parts, im not very good at this sort of thing, just saying what i think . but heres a website that might be able to help you guys understand more what I'm trying to say. and no im not related to will smith lol!!!!


http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/index.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

Kerby:

sorry i wasn't clear on some parts, im not very good at this sort of thing, just saying what i think . but heres a website that might be able to help you boys understand more what I'm trying to say. and no im not related to will smith !!!!


http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/index.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

Actually, no matter which you subscribe to, evolution or creation (as in the bible) you will still be related to will smith.

For you not to be related to will smith would mean you are not a descendant of Adam , . and you never mentioned anything about God creating a whole other set of people, . .and I've never seen that in the bible.

Kerby:

sorry i wasn't clear on some parts, im not very good at this sort of thing, just saying what i think . but heres a website that might be able to help you boys understand more what I'm trying to say. and no im not related to will smith !!!!


http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/index.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

BTW, that website is full of crap.

So, they mention a couple things where the bible and science agree and expect me to look at it and say "oh wow. . . science doesn't contradict the bible at all".

Of course, there is no mention of Methuselah and his contradiction with science. . . or the resurrection and how it has never been duplicated. . .or supported by science. . .

Come on, how do you expect someone to take something so clearly biased seriously?

Kerby:

sorry i wasn't clear on some parts, im not very good at this sort of thing, just saying what i think . but heres a website that might be able to help you boys understand more what I'm trying to say. and no im not related to will smith !!!!


http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/index.shtml

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml

Of all the unholy cesspools of filthy creationist ignorance, halftruth, and outright lies, you had to pick that one. Where to start? I'll just radomly pick parts, because I can't possibly refute a website with so much.

All of the well-known fossils believed to be missing links for humans come from Pleistocene layers. These include Australopithecus (dated perhaps 500,000 years ago in the Gunz-Mindel Interglacial), Peking man and Java man (in between), and Neanderthal man (dated less than 100,000 years ago—the time of the Wurm glaciation)

Disregarding the misnomer of claiming bona-fide transitionals are "missing links", I find it hilarious that they've included Neandethals as possible human ancestors, when anyone who knows at least the basics of the the theory of evolution and paleontology, would know that human ancestors drove neanderthals to extintion.

Investigating the scientific literature reveals that all these proposed ”missing links” are either very humanlike with a trace of some apelike characteristic, or very apelike with a trace of some human characteristic. There is nothing really in between (where you would expect a “real” transitional species).

One has to ask then, what they expect a "real transitional"(tm) to look like. Besides, many of the transitionals don't just have a "trace, ", for example, homo erectus fossils like Turkana boy, has a human torso, and a clearly apelike head.

Most people do not know that most rock layers are “dated” by the fossils they contain. Scientists will choose a special reference fossil called an “index fossil.” Then they assume (based on the phylogenetic tree) that the “simple” index fossils were the oldest. Finding one of these “oldest” index fossils in a layer identifies that layer as the “oldest.”

This is an example of what I like to call lying for Jesus, the above bovine fecal matter gives the impression that geologists, paleontologists etc, are all incompetent, dishonest people, and this is clearly not the case.

The truth is, rock layers/fossils are sometimes initially dated by a well known fossil, however, it is more often than not, cross checked using other dating methods, dating methods that coincidentally collaborate the date.

One article [2] reveals that the fossils of normal birds have been found in older rock strata than Archaeopteryx. Therefore, either Archaeopteryx is not a transitional fossil (since birds already existed at the same time and there was nothing to “transition” into) or rock strata can not be accurately dated. If either of these is correct (and one must be) Archaeopteryx loses its value as a transitional species.

Normal birds, what are those? Anyway, this is clearly an attempt to obfuscate the truth (hardly surprising). Archaeopteryx is not suggested to be the ancestor of modern birds, however it is a transitional between dinosaurs-bird. Also, "Archie" isn't the only dinosaur-bird transitional, others include: Jeholornis prima, Changchengornis hengdaoziensis, etc.

Archaeopteryx probably could not fly, since it does not have a keeled sternum (breast bone) which all flying birds (and even bats) need to have. Of course, being a transitional species, Archaeopteryx did not have to fly. Yet, if it did not fly, what was the purpose of its feathers?* Since it either flew or it did not—and there are problems with both cases—one or the other removes the support that Archaeopteryx was a valid transitional species.

Wow, the banal inanity of the above really is breath taking, they were so close, yet so far. Ostriches, Emus etc, all have wings too, I guess their wings are illusions planted by the EAC. For your information, if anything the fact that archie couldn't fly, gives more credence that the evolution of feathers was not for flight.

p.s. Bats don't have feathers but can fly, weird no?

At this point I really don't feel like continuing, so I say pick one or two things you believe falsifies evolution, and I'll attempt to answer them.

Nferyn,

Talking about your purple monsters,

If you are realy convinced about their reality, then hold unto it. Dont just talk it; live it, think it, dream it. At least, believe in and stand for something. Not just 'against' something or against some thought, but believe in and stand for something. Influence today's world and its people by your beliefs and corresponding action.

A belief you are ready to die for, a belief worth living for. Then we could look up to you as a success and one that should be a role model for many.

KAG:

pick one or two things you believe falsifies evolution, and I'll attempt to answer them.

Bumpity.