indeed Abbey i agree with you, it is not too much of an[i] uphill [/i] task

I agree with you dear. It is that feeling of emptiness in every ungodly person inspite of all of lifes 'pleasures' that God wants to occupy with his love and presence.

donnie:

I agree with you dear. It is that feeling of emptiness in every ungodly person inspite of all of lifes 'pleasures' that God wants to occupy with his love and presence.

this requires an incorrect assumption that people who don't believe in God have some "emptiness" in their lives

allonym:

this requires an incorrect assumption that people who don't believe in God have some "emptiness" in their lives

I am very empty... empty stomach, empty wallet, ...
There's a fix for that though

nferyn:

I am very empty... empty stomach, empty wallet, ...
There's a fix for that though

lol you know what i meant. . .

Maybe I should start a church of my own (as a fix, I mean)

sup nyfern we meet again, lol what made me think that u dont believe in God after them abortion tingz.
hey do u believe me we evolved, there are scientifical evidences to prove that God exists that he made u and i. wanna tlak more abt it holla back. im alwayz open to ppl who dont believe in da existence of God

Belief in the supernatural is diametrically opposed to logical reasoning since it cannot be verified scientifically. It takes a lot of candour however to announce your lack of belief, especially in such an overwhelmingly spiritually inclined society as Nigeria. You are regarded like a pariah just for broaching the topic.

There are so many versions of spirituality and religious deity-based beliefs, be it monotheic ones like christianity, islam and judaism, or polytheic ones such as hinduism, buddhism and the hundreds of variant traditional African beliefs. It boggles the mind to contemplate which one out of these various religions is the right one.

Also, the premises on which the beliefs are based are outrageous and far-fetched were one to measure them through basic scientific analysis. Any self respecting scientist and non-self delusional and intelligent observer is sure to draw the conclusion that there is no scientific basis for postulating the existence of the supernatural, not to mention adducing our existence to the will of such precepts.

Having said this as a scientist, the question lingers though, if there is no scientific evidence of the supernatural, how then do we explain our being and consciousness, and ability to ponder our very existence? Any good scientist would argue however that the fact that there is no evidence does not completely rule out the non-existence of the supernatural, no matter how highly improbable it is. It however also does not warrant subscribing to the simplistic and fantastic argument put forth by the various popular main stream religions. It simply means we as intelligent beings should continue to seek scientific answers to the mysteries that surround us. Perhaps if we understand the four basic forces of nature, namely, a) the weak nuclear forces, b) the strong nuclear forces, c) gravity and d) electromagnetism and how they relate through a Grand Unifying Theory, we stand a better chance of understanding the universe and perhaps the mind of "God."

Welcome Mr. Bassey,

Another physicist in the house, aren't you?
Indeed spirituality and religion are not synonymous. Our being and consciousness do have rational scientific explanations - although our understanding of them is far from complete.

Good popular scientific introductions to consciousnes are:
How The Mind Works, Steven Pinker
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393318486/qid=1136628297/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8137714-3567327?n=507846&s=books&v=glance
The Blank Slate, Steven Pinker
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142003344/qid=1136628297/sr=8-6/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i6_xgl14/102-8137714-3567327?n=507846&s=books&v=glance
[i]Freedom Evolves, Daniel C. Dennet[/i
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142003840/qid=1136628371/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-8137714-3567327?n=507846&s=books&v=glance]

panthress:

sup nyfern we meet again, what made me think that u don't believe in God after them abortion tingz.
hey do u believe me we evolved, there are scientifical evidences to prove that God exists that he made u and i. want to tlak more about it holla back. im alwayz open to people who don't believe in da existence of God

Hi there,
Join the crowd. I've been asking all those wonderful people of Nairaland for just that. None have been able to provide anything that can be considered proof or somewhat conclusive evidence (actually, proof does not exist in the empirical sciences, only evidence). Now, maybe you could be the first person on this planet to prove the existence of a supreme being. I would be happy to entertain you with my ungodly ways (don't worry, I'm not dangerous, I've been happily married to a wonderful Christian for 8 years now)

lol ok well my first question for u who created u?
ps if usay urparents thru sex. explain who created ur first line of generations?

panthress:

ok well my first question for u who created u?
ps if usay urparents through sex. explain who created your first line of generations?

Why ask me a question? You were going to bring me proof of God's existence. Anyway, I will try to answer your somewhat vague question. Please, if the answer is not sufficient, try to rephrase, because your choice of words is not really helping to clarify your intent.

1. I nor my forebears were created. We are the result of millions of years of asexual reproduction, followed by millions of years of sexual reproduction, working on living organisms. The process by which the changes in these organisms came is called evolution. Evolution is both a fact and a theory.
Let me quote biologist Lewontin:
It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun.

Now, the mechanisms by which the fact of evolution took place is another matter. The fact of evolution is best explained by the Theory of Evolution (or what is known in modern Biology as the modern synthesis). Douglas J. Futuym puts it as follows:

A few words need to be said about the "theory of evolution," which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved "facthood" as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled "New evidence for evolution;" it simply has not been an issue for a century.

A good introduction in evolutionary biology (there is no other) can be found on these sites:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

so u think we evolved from monkeyz, so why iz it still here
note
pls dont type so much stuff in one message

panthress:

note
please don't type so much stuff in one message

If you are willing to learn, you will have to go through some intellectual effort. This includes reading all these spun out posts.

panthress:

so u think we evolved from monkeyz, so why iz it still here

We did [b]not [/b]evolve from any currently living monkey. We do share a common ancestor with apes, monkeys, mammals, fish, ... with all multi-cellular life on earth.

Let me ask you another question:
If many Americans and Australians are descended from Europeans, why are there still Europeans around?

I will try and put this together in a short form as it has shown that many people particularly Nigerians believe whatever their where told my their colonial masters. I will not go down to the theory of evolution as it is for the wise to understand the work of God.

Furthermore, our colonial master said that Ibo’s were the least advanced (No offence) when they came that the most advanced culture were the Hausa that is why the left the government with then after independence.

However, this is the colonial judgment base on the fact that civilization was base on political hierarchy, example they had Emir, community language in written form and they use money not trade by bather. This politics was the defining moment for western world. Romans were the strongest world power and brutal. They even use humans as gladiator in the coliseum fight. Many Romans rebelled and hope for Messiah as they called it. I will write again.

hmm, americans r british, they did not evolve or somethin they juz moved there, the reel americans r da native indians n cherokee n pplz like that.
ppl say we evolve from monkeys, if humans date back to a longggggggggg time ago, not quite sure when and cant be arsed to check. monkeys shld be dead from now and their shld be somethin to show that we evolved from em.

panthress:

hmm, americans r british, they did not evolve or somethin they juz moved there, the reel americans r da native indians n cherokee n pplz like that.
people say we evolve from monkeys, if humans date back to a longggggggggg time ago, not quite sure when and can't be bothered to check. monkeys shld be dead from now and their shld be somethin to show that we evolved from em.

he said that the "monkeys" we evolved from ARE dead - all currently living monkeys evolved from those "monkeys" as well.

nferyn:

Let me quote biologist Lewontin:
It is time for students of the evolutionary process, especially those who have been misquoted and used by the creationists, to state clearly that evolution is a fact, not theory, and that what is at issue within biology are questions of details of the process and the relative importance of different mechanisms of evolution. It is a fact that the earth with liquid water, is more than 3.6 billion years old. It is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least half of that period and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. It is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. There were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. It is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. There used to be dinosaurs and Pithecanthropus, and there are none now. It is a fact that all living forms come from previous living forms. Therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. Birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans. No person who pretends to any understanding of the natural world can deny these facts any more than she or he can deny that the earth is round, rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun.

in Chrisitianity, it is often debated what a 'day' to God is. God created Earth and all living creatures in 7 days. But what if each of those 'days' was millions of years long? Considering this option, it would all still make sense. No, there were no birds or mamals 150 milion years ago, because that was before the day God created them. As to why forms of the past are no longer living, there could be millons of reasons. God didn't ask Dinasours to go with Noah, when there was the flood. Maybe God distroyed them, and Didn't think it was important enough to put in the bible. Maybe they couldn't adapt to something new in their enviornment, and so they died. There are millions of possible reasons. It doesn't mean that evolution is a fact. Just a possibility.

allonym:

he said that the "monkeys" we evolved from ARE dead - all currently living monkeys evolved from those "monkeys" as well.

what r those monkeys called and why arent there bones n shit and dude what do u belive in God or u an atheist?

AbbeyMarie:

in Chrisitianity, it is often debated what a 'day' to God is. God created Earth and all living creatures in 7 days. But what if each of those 'days' was millions of years long? Considering this option, it would all still make sense. No, there were no birds or mamals 150 milion years ago, because that was before the day God created them. As to why forms of the past are no longer living, there could be millons of reasons. God didn't ask Dinasours to go with Noah, when there was the flood. Maybe God distroyed them, and Didn't think it was important enough to put in the bible. Maybe they couldn't adapt to something new in their enviornment, and so they died. There are millions of possible reasons. It doesn't mean that evolution is a fact. Just a possibility.

God created us on da 6th day, noah took everyyyyyyyy animal, male n female species inside the ark.
Evolution is not a possibility it is not a fact, we never evolved

panthress:

God created us on da 6th day, noah took everyyyyyyyy animal, male n female species inside the ark.
Evolution is not a possibility it is not a fact, we never evolved

yeah, i know... i just didn't feel like making more conflict... guess it didn't work. LMAO!

Many of these people that rebelled, over centuries prefecture a religion and anticipated the coming of Jesus Christ as we hope today that he will come again.  When Caesar knew of it he assembled his men to kill every male son in the city and Christ supposedly escape to Egypt where he grow up.

Egypt was ally to Rome and had technologies no one had today.  They master all sort of voodoo with high priest telling them what to do.  With letters from many prophets i.e. “Letter to the Galatians, Philippines etc.”  Persuading other countries to join the movement of the Romans brutal regime. All these were documented in a series of shown last summer on BBC by group of scientist, archaeologies and religious researchers.  I am sorry I do not have links to show you.  But you find out by calling BBC (Discovery Channel) and ask about the making of the bible.

panthress:

God created us on da 6th day, noah took everyyyyyyyy animal, male n female species inside the ark.
Evolution is not a possibility it is not a fact, we never evolved

panthress:

what r those monkeys called and why arent there bones n rubbish and dude what do u believe in God or u an atheist?

Well, archaeologists have found bones of australopithecines, "Lucy" being one of the most well known examples, Cro-Magnons, and other prehistoric humans - that is what some of the "monkeys" have been called. Beyond homo erectus, we have not found that much fossil evidence - it is really far into the past. . . and the chances of us finding this evidence is very slim.

However, where is your proof of Noah's ark? You cannot even show me a piece of it, I can direct you to where you can view the remains of "Lucy".

panthress:

God created us on da 6th day, noah took everyyyyyyyy animal, male n female species inside the ark.
Evolution is not a possibility it is not a fact, we never evolved

On the 6th day of what? Some people claim it was six 24 hour days, others claim a few hundred million years. . . If you will claim a few hundred million years or some other number to MATCH what scientists predict about evolution, that is tantamount to suggesting evolution is correct. . and God just happened to be "watching" over it or guiding it. Essentially, they are attempting to coopt evolution and use it as a tool of God.

For those who claim six 24 hour days . . . if God is so awesome and powerful, why did it take more than and infinitesimally small amount of time for him to do it. If I had all power in my hands and I'm perfect, why would I spend time to do anything? Its not like I'm going to make a mistake.

I can guess a reply to this:

God's thought are not our thoughts, his ways are not our ways, we cannot presume to even understand them.

Of course, this is after ppl have spent many posts telling me exactly what God thinks and how he does things.

To cut the story, Christianity is a big political regime that over millennia that has translated in modern faith.

Can someone answer this question for me?  Before earth there was God, before God what was it?

In my understanding we have Solar system, which sustain our nine planets.  We have Galaxy, which our solar system is among it.  It takes 100 billion Solar Systems to make Galaxy, our own Galaxy is called the Milky way Galaxy.  We have billion billon billion billon Galaxies in our universe.  (the word universe was used to mean the whole spacetime continuum in which we exist, together with all the energy and matter within it. Attempts to understand the universe in this sense, on the largest possible scales, are made in cosmology, a science that has grown from physics and astronomy).  Scientist are theorising that they could be more than one universe.  Now tell me did God create all this in one day?

Someone created this topic, made two other posts and since then, we've not heard from her. Isn't that funny?

allonym:

However, where is your proof of Noah's ark? You cannot even show me a piece of it

Man, you're confusing me. You call yourself a Christian, yet to look for ways to disprove God's existence?
Anyway, Noah's ark has been found by archaeologists.

This is my theory about God. I believe in Omnipotent that we call God. But I just don't believe the bible. Many things there are misleading and are open for debate. This is because men wrote bible.

God created existence and existence create some many things. If God knows everything and what we do, then we are nothing but a simple computer program that has to do what he has been told (Programmed) to do. So God cannot know everything.

Someone that said God create us in his image and likeness should expanded on that, because if he does why hind away from us?

panthress:

hmm, americans r british, they did not evolve or somethin they juz moved there, the reel americans r da native indians n cherokee n pplz like that.
people say we evolve from monkeys, if humans date back to a longggggggggg time ago, not quite sure when and can't be bothered to check. monkeys shld be dead from now and their shld be somethin to show that we evolved from em.

If you cannot be bothered to check, then I'm done trying to explain basic science to you. Either you choose to be ignorant or you choose to educate yourself. It's quite obvious which path you have chosen. If you want me to reply to any of your questions about evolution, first check out the links I provided before and then ask specific questions.

Evidence for evolution:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Evidence for Human evolution (somethin to show that we evolved from em):
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

Come with your proof for the existence of God and you'll have my ear.

panthress:

God created us on da 6th day, noah took everyyyyyyyy animal, male n female species inside the ark.
Evolution is not a possibility it is not a fact, we never evolved

Says the authority ... of what exactly? .... based on what evidence exactly?

Ignorance reigns supreme in your universe, that's quite obvious.

goodguy:

Anyway, Noah's ark has been found by archaeologists.

No it hasn't been found , these so called findings were hoaxes.

The story about Noah and his ark, is complete and utter balony. It is physically impossible for such a thing to ever have happened.

panthress:

God created us on da 6th day, noah took everyyyyyyyy animal, male n female species inside the ark.
Evolution is not a possibility it is not a fact, we never evolved

AbbeyMarie link=topic=3833.msg159813#msg159813 date=1136660584:

yeah, i know... i just didn't feel like making more conflict... guess it didn't work. LMAO!

What exactly are you trying to say here?