I currently have 2 100Ah batteries which I use with my 1.4 kva sukam inverter. I am thinking of buying 2 additional 260Ah or 200 Ah batteries. However, I have some worries.
How can I maintain 2 separate battery banks with the same inverter without having to connect and disconnect wires and terminals every time air want to change over? Are there any solutions eg similar to a knife or changeover switch.
Can the Sukam inverter with 13A charging current effectively charge 2 of the 260Ah batteries connected in series?

If it can't effectively charge the batteries, which 3 stage intelligent battery charger and of what rating will you recommend?

feasy1:

7200W , wow that is massive, hope to move up to that level one day. I bet you could add Air Conditioner to the load if need be, the energy harnessed from the sun should take care of that most especially during the day, that could come handy in the dry season
For instance, I have tested 1 1HP AC with my 3KW set up during the day and the system just harnessed the needed energy from the PV stepping up the instantenous KWs.

feasy1,

under normal conditions you are very correct. 7,200w appears to be a lot but the emphasis here is on nameplate. i have since learnt that in solar, things are not always what they appear to be.

like i explained to a good member of this forum some time ago, i started my array build up with supposedly 'sharp' solar panels which i later found out to be not as original as i thought they were. also, most of the panels i bought with stamped 200w were not actually outputting their stated power, not so much because of the sub-optimal roof installation angles (although i think that also contributes a lot) but mainly because they were not original. so, i suspect a lot of those earlier sharp panels i installed were most likely 120w or at most 150w panels disguised as 200w.

what i have been doing of late is to make up for this shortfall - very much like 'damage control'. actually, i was faced with a choice of either starting completely from scratch by using original sharp panels or just adding to my existing array to boost up their output. obviously, i chose the second option.

so, in effect my supposedly 7,200w may just be a little bit around 5,000w in reality after discounting the sub-standard early sharp panels and the non-optimal roof installation angles.

George_D:

feasy1,

under normal conditions you are very correct. 7,200w appears to be a lot but the emphasis here is on nameplate. i have since learnt that in solar, things are not always what they appear to be.

like i explained to a good member of this forum some time ago, i started my array build up with supposedly 'sharp' solar panels which i later found out to be not as original as i thought they were. also, most of the panels i bought with stamped 200w were not actually outputting their stated power, not so much because of the sub-optimal roof installation angles (although i think that also contributes a lot) but mainly because they were not original. so, i suspect a lot of those earlier sharp panels i installed were most likely 120w or at most 150w panels disguised as 200w.

what i have been doing of late is to make up for this shortfall - very much like 'damage control'. actually, i was faced with a choice of either starting completely from scratch by using original sharp panels or just adding to my existing array to boost up their output. obviously, i chose the second option.

so, in effect my supposedly 7,200w may just be a little bit around 5,000w in reality after discounting the sub-standard early sharp panels and the non-optimal roof installation angles.

All join, Oga na Master...

George_D:

feasy1,

under normal conditions you are very correct. 7,200w appears to be a lot but the emphasis here is on nameplate. i have since learnt that in solar, things are not always what they appear to be.

like i explained to a good member of this forum some time ago, i started my array build up with supposedly 'sharp' solar panels which i later found out to be not as original as i thought they were. also, most of the panels i bought with stamped 200w were not actually outputting their stated power, not so much because of the sub-optimal roof installation angles (although i think that also contributes a lot) but mainly because they were not original. so, i suspect a lot of those earlier sharp panels i installed were most likely 120w or at most 150w panels disguised as 200w.

what i have been doing of late is to make up for this shortfall - very much like 'damage control'. actually, i was faced with a choice of either starting completely from scratch by using original sharp panels or just adding to my existing array to boost up their output. obviously, i chose the second option.

so, in effect my supposedly 7,200w may just be a little bit around 5,000w in reality after discounting the sub-standard early sharp panels and the non-optimal roof installation angles.

George_D, you've obviously gone for the right choice, those panels will still be harnessing albeit not up to the nameplate spec, that was the price you paid for breaking the myth, others are hitting the ground running thanks to your experience and support on the forum.

Good Talk,

my oga G, "others are hitting the ground running thanks to your experience and support on the forum"... very important talk... i have not been hear for too long, but from what i have read from post 1, you are wealth to this forum.. keep the Flag flying..

my take

feasy1:

George_D, you've obviously gone for the right choice, those panels will still be harnessing albeit not up to the nameplate spec, that was the price you paid for breaking the myth, others are hitting the ground running thanks to your experience and support on the forum.

George_D:

feasy1,

under normal conditions you are very correct. 7,200w appears to be a lot but the emphasis here is on nameplate. i have since learnt that in solar, things are not always what they appear to be.

like i explained to a good member of this forum some time ago, i started my array build up with supposedly 'sharp' solar panels which i later found out to be not as original as i thought they were. also, most of the panels i bought with stamped 200w were not actually outputting their stated power, not so much because of the sub-optimal roof installation angles (although i think that also contributes a lot) but mainly because they were not original. so, i suspect a lot of those earlier sharp panels i installed were most likely 120w or at most 150w panels disguised as 200w.

what i have been doing of late is to make up for this shortfall - very much like 'damage control'. actually, i was faced with a choice of either starting completely from scratch by using original sharp panels or just adding to my existing array to boost up their output. obviously, i chose the second option.

so, in effect my supposedly 7,200w may just be a little bit around 5,000w in reality after discounting the sub-standard early sharp panels and the n[b]on-optimal roof installation angles[/b].

I am very sure your harvest will shoot up if you adjust the inclination of your panels. I suggest you make aluminium frames to prop up the panels.
I noticed this difference in my last installation where I strictly aligned in E-W with just a slight tilt to south.
The 5250watts polycrystalline harvests averagely double what the 3360watts monocrystalline array produces. The only reason I can find is just the non-optimal inclination of the 3360watts array which is tilted towards SE.

dsunmade: I currently have 2 100Ah batteries which I use with my 1.4 kva sukam inverter. I am thinking of buying 2 additional 260Ah or 200 Ah batteries. However, I have some worries.
How can I maintain 2 separate battery banks with the same inverter without having to connect and disconnect wires and terminals every time air want to change over? Are there any solutions eg similar to a knife or changeover switch.
Can the Sukam inverter with 13A charging current effectively charge 2 of the 260Ah batteries connected in series?

If it can't effectively charge the batteries, which 3 stage intelligent battery charger and of what rating will you recommend?

first of all, all my comments below are subject to correction by the experts:

a little more info should help. What size battery bank does your inverter charge (in volts). I guess its 24 volts and you have you current 100amp batteries connected in series. If that's the case all you have to do us connect the new batteries in series too and them connect to the old battery bank in parallel (+ve to +ve and vice versa). Obviously the time the new combined batteries will take to charge will be longer. In addition I hope your not adding batteries due to a reduced standby time of the current battery bank. This isn't good practice as the old batteries will reduce lifespan of the new batteries significantly.

there is no need for a changeover as the banks though separate will be connected in parallel to the inverter. So from the inverters point of view its all just one battery bank. Also ensure your batteries don't go below 40% of their capacity for long life.

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Guru's in d house I have an offer for a tristar mppt solar charge controller 60 amps for 125,000.00 and d meter display for 20,000.00. Are dy r good bargain or could I still get it cheaper? Kindly advise

if the tristar is original..then that's about the price Its sold on amazon plus like 5 - 10% profit..i think its an ok deal.....

I bought the display $106 on amazon

How do u ship things bought on Amazon?

totalgreen,
feasy1,
akanniade,

thanks for all the kind words. i'm sure i will get more power than i'm getting now if only i can
change the orientation of the panels but then that will be very difficult to achieve on the roof.

TotalGreen: No.
for a 48volt system, it should be
3 panels in series strings of 4 (12 panels)

Thanks Uncle TotalG, but wont that give me 104.4volts Vmax and 29.88A Imax since my specs are:

Output power = 260W
Vmp=34.8V
Imp=7.47amp
Voc=44V
Isc=8.09amp
I understand from the pix below that may be ok (because the MPPT will regulate the charging votlage and current based on the connected battery bank, but my fear now is on that battery bank side. from this image, does this mean i'll have (260watt x 12) divided by 48V = 65Amps current on the battery side? Its only a 45 amp MPPT controller o. Will energy be waisting?

Thanks All

hi,
for mppt connection, you have to step up the vdc so the mppt controller can step down the vdc and increase current when the sun rises and when it sets. At the peak mppt and the regular controller work the same aprox.

Yes from what see you need to get 60amps mppt, cause at peak u should get about 60amps(if and only if your panel name plate is original, this is where u know if you have bought a bad panel or not - my oga George... correct?)

no matter how you connect it, you will loose power, so its better to at least maximize(3 panels in series strings of 4) the use of the mppt first.

thanks

fikfik:

Thanks Uncle TotalG, but wont that give me 104.4volts Vmax and 29.88A Imax since my specs are:

Output power = 260W
Vmp=34.8V
Imp=7.47amp
Voc=44V
Isc=8.09amp
I understand from the pix below that may be ok (because the MPPT will regulate the charging votlage and current based on the connected battery bank, but my fear now is on that battery bank side. from this image, does this mean i'll have (260watt x 12) divided by 48V = 65Amps current on the battery side? Its only a 45 amp MPPT controller o. Will energy be waisting?

Thanks All

If you had a choice of the following makes of 200 Ah AGM batteries at the same price, which one will you take:
Fullriver, Ritar and Zenith as well as A Victron gel battery which is slightly more expensive?

Any one in the house who specializes in UPS repair?

Got a BEST POWER 16kva UPS to service.

Please holla at me

Thanks.

Pls, can anybody in the house help me out, I have a UPS 650va I just converted to serve as an inverter with a battery of 12v 200 amp. I presume the ups cannot charge the battery so I need an external charger in line with the discussion so far. I don't know how it looks and where to possibly get it. The Buzz sound of the ups is disturbing I don't know how to disable it, I am also considering putting à cooling fan, don't know how to go about all these. Pls I need help.

Saib4Jesus: Pls, can anybody in the house help me out, I have a UPS 650va I just converted to serve as an inverter with a battery of 12v 200 amp. I presume the ups cannot charge the battery so I need an external charger in line with the discussion so far. I don't know how it looks and where to possibly get it. The Buzz sound of the ups is disturbing I don't know how to disable it, I am also considering putting à cooling fan, don't know how to go about all these. Pls I need help.

You obviously need a qualified expert to help you fix those things. I am not sure you will still be able to do those things you requested by yourself even if you are told what to do.

Do not forget also that there are some dangerous voltages in the ups (220Vac), you really need to be sure before you open the ups up.

Bros, how many or much solar panels would I need to power my 12v/200ah solar battery? And in case I get three more how many (number of panels and naira equivalent) would I need to power them ?

George_D:

feasy1,

under normal conditions you are very correct. 7,200w appears to be a lot but the emphasis here is on nameplate. i have since learnt that in solar, things are not always what they appear to be.

like i explained to a good member of this forum some time ago, i started my array build up with supposedly 'sharp' solar panels which i later found out to be not as original as i thought they were. also, most of the panels i bought with stamped 200w were not actually outputting their stated power, not so much because of the sub-optimal roof installation angles (although i think that also contributes a lot) but mainly because they were not original. so, i suspect a lot of those earlier sharp panels i installed were most likely 120w or at most 150w panels disguised as 200w.

what i have been doing of late is to make up for this shortfall - very much like 'damage control'. actually, i was faced with a choice of either starting completely from scratch by using original sharp panels or just adding to my existing array to boost up their output. obviously, i chose the second option.

so, in effect my supposedly 7,200w may just be a little bit around 5,000w in reality after discounting the sub-standard early sharp panels and the non-optimal roof installation angles.

Hi George D, its rather unfortunate what we get in our market esp alaba international. I was lucky a frnd in kD warned me before i went to lagos in march this yr and thought me some useful tips of evaluating panels:
1) Most panels are overrated using a different sticker with higher wattage e.g a 160watts panel labelled as 200 or 230watts
2) Always count the number cells on the panel as thats gives an idea for the watts
3) There are 3 categories of cells on most panels in the market- 1.1V, 2.2V(most common form) and 3.3V cells.
4) An 80watts panel will have 36cells of 2.2V, 130watts has 60 , 160watts has 72(mostly arranged as 12rows by 6columns,though arrangement may differ per manufacurer)
5) The sizes of each cell type will be posted after comfirming from my array whn i get home.though i can tell frm my little experience whn i see one.
6) The overall frame size can be used in conjunction with the number of cells on the panel to give a reasonable estimate of wattage. Though it comes with experience n caution using frame size as there are pitfalls with frame size.
7) For example, a 160watts panel if rectangular will measure 62inches by 32inches with 72cells.

George_D:
7,200w appears to be a lot but the emphasis here is on nameplate. i have since learnt that in solar, things are not always what they appear to be.
also, most of the panels i bought with stamped 200w were not actually outputting their stated power. so, i suspect a lot of those earlier sharp panels i installed were most likely 120w or at most 150w panels disguised as 200w.
so, in effect my supposedly 7,200w may just be a little bit around 5,000w in reality.

TotalGreen: hi,
for mppt connection, you have to step up the vdc so the mppt controller can step down the vdc and increase current when the sun rises and when it sets. At the peak mppt and the regular controller work the same aprox.

Yes from what see you need to get 60amps mppt, cause at peak u should get about 60amps(if and only if your panel name plate is original, this is where u know if you have bought a bad panel or not - my oga George... correct?)

no matter how you connect it, you will loose power, so its better to at least maximize(3 panels in series strings of 4) the use of the mppt first.

thanks

totalgreen,
when it comes to mppt configuration for solar panels, the 3 by 3 rule is not cast in stone. the most important thing to bear in mind is the vmp of the combined panels in relation to your charge controller voltage efficiency benchmarks. that is why it is always very important to read up documentations for any product you use. depending on the charge controller's operating voltage range, you may even have to combine up to four panels in some cases (especially for those panels that have very low vmp). in the same vein, you may only need to combine 2 panels when using high voltage panels.
if you check your tristar mppt 60 oem documentation (page 62), you'll notice from the voltage efficiency curve that you actually get about 99 percent conversion efficiency at 52v vmp. anything after 98v vmp, you may be just wasting precious power. i believe different controllers have their own unique best operating vmp range and it is very important to ascertain this compared to the specs of your panels.
some time ago, i experimented with the 3 by 3 configuration for my back facing solar panels and after a couple of months, i was forced to revert back to my 2 by 2 formation as i discovered that my high voltage solar panels far exceeded the recommended best operating vmp range for the tristar 48v system settings and i was just losing power daily if i stuck to that configuration.

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/library/TSMPPT.IOM.EN.04.pdf

fikfik,

please take note of the above explanation. from your diagram, i'm thinking that your best bet is to stick to a two by two config.

life707: Hi George D, its rather unfortunate what we get in our market esp alaba international. I was lucky a frnd in kD warned me before i went to lagos in march this yr and thought me some useful tips of evaluating panels:
1) Most panels are overrated using a different sticker with higher wattage e.g a 160watts panel labelled as 200 or 230watts
2) Always count the number cells on the panel as thats gives an idea for the watts
3) There are 3 categories of cells on most panels in the market- 1.1V, 2.2V(most common form) and 3.3V cells.
4) An 80watts panel will have 36cells of 2.2V, 130watts has 60 , 160watts has 72(mostly arranged as 12rows by 6columns,though arrangement may differ per manufacurer)
5) The sizes of each cell type will be posted after comfirming from my array whn i get home.though i can tell frm my little experience whn i see one.
6) The overall frame size can be used in conjunction with the number of cells on the panel to give a reasonable estimate of wattage. Though it comes with experience n caution using frame size as there are pitfalls with frame size.
7) For example, a 160watts panel if rectangular will measure 62inches by 32inches with 72cells.

life707,

you are very correct. its a shame the length people will go just to make money.
anyway, we learn everyday.
thanks!

Saib4Jesus: Pls, can anybody in the house help me out, I have a UPS 650va I just converted to serve as an inverter with a battery of 12v 200 amp. I presume the ups cannot charge the battery so I need an external charger in line with the discussion so far. I don't know how it looks and where to possibly get it. The Buzz sound of the ups is disturbing I don't know how to disable it, I am also considering putting à cooling fan, don't know how to go about all these. Pls I need help.

For the charger, look for a switch mode charger. You may need to search well, cos the linear charger is more common.
The switch mode charger is generally transformerless, lighter and less bulky than the linear type. Also the linear charger sold in Nigerian market has no a.c line regulation, I.e if your nepa is not 220v you need a stabilizer otherwise you get erratic d.c output.
The linear charger in Nigerian market usually has no charge regulation I.e it may overcharge your battery if you don't off it manually.
Lastly your beeper can be desoldered. Just get a soldering iron and a little lead. The beeper is cylindrical and black about 1cm diameter.

my Oga G, u have spoken well, very correct.
but from his panels info below, 34.8v x 2 is just 69.6V, and this is at peak, he will need to add one more panel to get 104.4V just a little above "anything after 98v vmp, you may be just wasting precious power"....from my experience(cause his panel info i close to mine), the panels just spikes 100V ..... my oga hence my recommendations.

Output power = 260W
***** Vmp=34.8V *****
Imp=7.47amp
Voc=44V
Isc=8.09amp

i think this link is still active " http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/strings/calc.php " or " http://www.se-renbu.com/support/xwsizing/disclaimer_SE.aspx "

George_D:

totalgreen,
when it comes to mppt configuration for solar panels, the 3 by 3 rule is not cast in stone. the most important thing to bear in mind is the vmp of the combined panels in relation to your charge controller voltage efficiency benchmarks. that is why it is always very important to read up documentations for any product you use. depending on the charge controller's operating voltage range, you may even have to combine up to four panels in some cases (especially for those panels that have very low vmp). in the same vein, you may only need to combine 2 panels when using high voltage panels.
if you check your tristar mppt 60 oem documentation (page 62), you'll notice from the voltage efficiency curve that you actually get about 99 percent conversion efficiency at 52v vmp. anything after 98v vmp, you may be just wasting precious power. i believe different controllers have their own unique best operating vmp range and it is very important to ascertain this compared to the specs of your panels.
some time ago, i experimented with the 3 by 3 configuration for my back facing solar panels and after a couple of months, i was forced to revert back to my 2 by 2 formation as i discovered that my high voltage solar panels far exceeded the recommended best operating vmp range for the tristar 48v system settings and i was just losing power daily if i stuck to that configuration.

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/library/TSMPPT.IOM.EN.04.pdf

hello totalgreen,

i've gone through those links and i think they are very helpful.
when i started out installing my panels, i was very enthusiastic on the prospect of the 3 by 3 wiring config
and i was a foremost crusader in that regards. however, my real world experiment with my back facing panels
was rather disappointing. looking back, there may have been other factors that played into their dismal
performance but when i reverted back to my old 2 by 2 set up, their performance jumped up astronomically.

the foregoing really points out the need for everyone to carry out real world output tests on their solar
panels in order to determine best configurations as relating to their charge controller oem recommendations.
it may be counter productive to just follow stated nameplate values.

true talk my oga g.

George_D: hello totalgreen,

i've gone through those links and i think they are very helpful.
when i started out installing my panels, i was very enthusiastic on the prospect of the 3 by 3 wiring config
and i was a foremost crusader in that regards. however, my real world experiment with my back facing panels
was rather disappointing. looking back, there may have been other factors that played into their dismal
performance but when i reverted back to my old 2 by 2 set up, their performance jumped up astronomically.

the foregoing really points out the need for everyone to carry out real world output tests on their solar
panels in order to determine best configurations as relating to their charge controller oem recommendations.
it may be counter productive to just follow stated nameplate values.

TotalGreen: true talk my oga g.

totalgreen,
going by my experience with those 'sharp' sub-standard panels, i think that should more or less explain
why i got very poor performance when connected in threes. the more reason why we must have a reliable
way of monitoring our actual module output. one of the best ways to do this is through the charge controller.
that is why i always get uneasy when peeps install charge controllers having no displays (or meters). how do
you know what power is being produced by your panels? how do you even determine your total array capacity
vs nameplate values? those led blinking lights don't tell you nothing besides assuring you that the controller
is being powered. i ran my tristar charge controller for almost 2 yrs without the display meter and it was
like driving a car without a dashboard. it was terrible! when i eventually installed a meter, it was like a
bind man seeing for the first time. what a relief!

so, my advice for all is to always make sure any charge controller we decide to use has a means of displaying
all relevant parameters. don't rely on those blinking led bulbs alone as they could be very unreliable!

just my take.

true talk my brother. infact my nxt upgrade go hear am. it is worth d extra to know what is cooking up d roof

my people, kai i dont seems to get DC VOLT, DC AMP digital 2 in 1 panel meter in kd

EMERGENCY

When connecting the morning star MPPT, my technician connected the battery sensory to the batt bank first before connecting to the charge controller. When passign the wire (used UTP CAT6 twisted cable about 0.2mm) through the hole to plug into the charge controller the +ve touched the common negative in the charge controller for a tenth of a second with a small spark. After connecting everthing, now my charge controller wont show the green flashing light when turn on the bettery breaker. Have comfirmed 53.5Volts at the charge controller battery bank terminals.

Is my charge controller fried, just because of that small spark wow, this is very sad for me... Please what are your thoughts?

well most likely, i had that issue and i think if you look back to my post, you would see what happened to mine, so painful cause they are not cheap at all.

fikfik: EMERGENCY

When connecting the morning star MPPT, my technician connected the battery sensory to the batt bank first before connecting to the charge controller. When passign the wire (used UTP CAT6 twisted cable about 0.5mm) through the hole to plug into the charge controller the +ve touched the common negative in the charge controller for a tenth of a second with a small spark. After connecting everthing, now my charge controller wont show the green flashing light when turn on the bettery breaker. Have comfirmed 53.5Volts at the charge controller battery bank terminals.

Is my charge controller fried, just because of that small spark wow, this is very sad for me... Please what are your thoughts?