BUTONEDAY: George_D,

I am crawling slowly to where we want to be. My GEL battery bank is now @ 530 amps/ 96 volts, while my alternate AGM bank is 400amps/48 volts. I am looking forward to increasing the number of panels very soon.

When the men are talking...did i hear 530Amps @ 96Volts?

Oga George, salutations and congratulations on your latest upgrade.
I am planning to add 1Kw solar array to my system later in the year, i will surely holla you for your Suntech source.
I remember when i was silently comparing my 24V charging current to your setup but my understanding got corrected after i switched to the 48V battery system.

TotalGreen:

Replied

ok. seen it.

About charging current, i agree wit total green based on my personal experience. I had my inverter repaired at luminous office 2 weeks ago. On getting back home, i discovered my battery gets full quicker than before and i was happy. Few days later i discovered my battery drains faster than before. Which means the chasing current of the inverter is too high as my 310ah 24v charges in less than 5hrs. I had to revert to the old inverter which takes God knows time to get full(may be 20hrs) now my batteries drains slowly. So for solar installations always consider charging current with respect to ur battery bank and load requirement. Note when there clouds are clear my batteries get full quicker and stay on float mode till it gets dark and discharges slower too.

yes. Correct

pdozie:

@TotalGreen. Thanks. But I really don't get the connection yet. The battery bank has a +ve & a -ve terminal. Should I run one cable each from +ve terminal of the two controllers to the battery bank +ve and do same for the -ve terminal of the bank?

@George, many thanks for the insight on the battery input toggle switch

Hi house, I jst wanna find out whether dere is a limit in battery to what an inverter can take, like what is the limit for a 2KVA inverter (assuming there is a limit)...right now I have 2 batteries wich r 200AH each, finkin' of doubling it, & mayb even doubling that again in d future. Thanks

hi,

no limit, just takes longer to charge.

dimdim001: Hi house, I jst wanna find out whether dere is a limit in battery to what an inverter can take, like what is the limit for a 2KVA inverter (assuming there is a limit)...right now I have 2 batteries wich r 200AH each, finkin' of doubling it, & mayb even doubling that again in d future. Thanks

A word of caution again for folks planning to increase their battery banks.

The additional batteries should be same brand and model and these additions should be done not more than 6 months after the first installations.

Adding different battery types and models will eventually kill the battery bank faster.

BUTONEDAY: George_D,

I am crawling slowly to where we want to be. My GEL battery bank is now @ 530 amps/ 96 volts, while my alternate AGM bank is 400amps/48 volts. I am looking forward to increasing the number of panels very soon.

bros,

a combined total of 930ah is not bad at all. what you need do next is to contact vitus.

he's been offering me some sweet suntech deals lately which i find hard to refuse as evident from

my seemingly frequent upgrades.

fikfik: anyone using saturn batteries? They any good.? want to buy some for 47,000 each

Uncle George, i see you cut -outs are the type used for AC installations. I remeber a post somewhere that states there may be arching if you use AC type cutouts/fuses. Is it true?

Thanks

fikfik,

those cutout fuses can be used both for ac and dc currents without any problems.

if you go back and check the posts you're referring to, i was talking about circuit
breakers (cb) which are different from cut out fuses. under no condition should you use
circuit breakers meant for ac on a dc circuit like an inverter for instance. always use
dc certified types so as to avoid problem of arching and fire out break.

hope this clarifies?

bodejohn:

When the men are talking...did i hear 530Amps @ 96Volts?

Oga George, salutations and congratulations on your latest upgrade.
I am planning to add 1Kw solar array to my system later in the year, i will surely holla you for your Suntech source.
I remember when i was silently comparing my 24V charging current to your setup but my understanding got corrected after i switched to the 48V battery system.

bodejohn,

thanks. i'm always ready whenever you are.

Hi everyone. Does this installation make sense? the short side of the panels is facing south and slightly tilted (incliaation in that are if 0.2), but the made the panels touch at an angle (the "V" like shape) whereas they should touch to form a straight line. hope this wont affect performance too much. FYI, its on a slab in between 2 roofs becasue there is a car park on the ground.

[img][/img]

It will harvest more if both are tilted south.

fikfik,

exactly. akanniade is right.

besides, this is a very poor installation as in time to come the panels will tend to gather a lot of
dust/debris in the v - shaped spot. not good for optimal solar harvest at all.

abunafiu,
totalgreen,

i would differ slightly on the issue of charging current mentioned above.

before the advent of agms and gel cells, it used to be that lead-acid batteries were limited
greatly by the amount of charge each cell could receive. the major draw back was heat generated
during the reverse chemical reaction process inside the cells. the greater the amount of current flowing
into the cells, the greater the heat generated. if this exceeds a particular threshold the cells risk being
damaged. that is why in early days, you see charging specifications in the range of 5c, i.e 5 percent
of battery capacity (measured at the 20hr rate). thus if you're charging a battery of 200ah, the maximum
charging current you're allowed to use is just 4 amps!

then came the agms and gell cells with their modern battery architecture and advanced charging regimes.
these batteries are specially built to withstand heavy charging currents in some cases up to 50 percent
capacity! thus, depending on the manufacturer and brand, it may not be strange to see charging specs of
up to 50c and above. what this means is that if you were to charge the same 200ah battery which is agm,
you could increase your charging current to about 100 amps without damaging the battery!

as a matter of fact, modern agms thrive on heavy charging current and not the other way round. research
actually suggests that charging modern agms with very little charge currents does more harm than good to
the batteries in the long run.

so, except your batteries are ordinary sealed lead acid batteries, you may look at increasing your charge
current to reduce your battery charge times without fear of damaging them. again, original agms or gell
cells have no problem with heavy charging currents.

George_D:

fikfik,

those cutout fuses can be used both for ac and dc currents without any problems.

if you go back and check the posts you're referring to, i was talking about circuit
breakers (cb) which are different from cut out fuses. under no condition should you use
circuit breakers meant for ac on a dc circuit like an inverter for instance. always use
dc certified types so as to avoid problem of arching and fire out break.

hope this clarifies?

Yes, thanks Uncle G. but I also remeber a pix from akiannade (or someone's) installation where he used breakers on both the +ve and -ve lines from battery bank to charge controller. youe cut outs are only on the +ve lines and you tied -ve directly. Whats best practice on this (without being wasteful)?

@all
Concerning the combiner (for hybrid charging systems), what are the things to note here. I see Uncel g's and compare it with the recent one from feasy1's but it seems he just connected everything to inverter wihtout really using a combiner (pls correct me if wrong) which seems neater but is it the right thing to do. Please advise me on rules for cable length in this whole multi-charging system too.

Thanks!

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Genus Inverter 12v 800va Pure Sinewave @ 27k

Emerson Module Chargers 24v & 48v @ 15k each

PWM Charge Controllers @ various types of power starlight,, Multi Power & Tripplite Inverters @ give away prices........ CALL 08135031951 NOW

. . Pls whats ur shop address. Whats d make of ur solar panels?.

Goodday all being silently following this thread and I must say I am really impressed with the information gleaned. Being a learner please gurus in d house wanted yr thots/advice on ds hybrid installation:
1. 3.5 kva su kam inverter
2.4 12v 260ah Zenith batteries
3. 5 280w Suntech panels
4. Tristar mppt controller 60amps
How best would I get d maximum output from d panels or wld I need 2 increase dm? Also installer is saying dt thin film panels of 90w has a better efficiency dn poly or mono panels and is suggesting dt we go for ten 90w thin film panels? Your advice would be highly appreciated.

hi,
this is strictly my view.
u setup is cool, u just need to add one more panel, i am assuming the 3.5kva is a 48volt system.
for 48volt the "Tristar mppt controller 60amps", u need to connect the panels in multiple of 3's, so u need 6panels, but a total of 12(3x4)panels should fill up your "Tristar mppt controller 60amps" finally before you buy a new one.

i dont share the same view on "thin film panels of 90w has a better efficiency dn poly or mono panels".. but thats just my take.. i would advice you browse the internet and you get your answers on this, not just one installer telling you what someone else probably had told him without backing... hope i dont sound hash.

just that with solar i always advice you start on the correct technical foundation..

DUNKA: Goodday all being silently following this thread and I must say I am really impressed with the information gleaned. Being a learner please gurus in d house wanted yr thots/advice on ds hybrid installation:
1. 3.5 kva su kam inverter
2.4 12v 260ah Zenith batteries
3. 5 280w Suntech panels
4. Tristar mppt controller 60amps
How best would I get d maximum output from d panels or wld I need 2 increase dm? Also installer is saying dt thin film panels of 90w has a better efficiency dn poly or mono panels and is suggesting dt we go for ten 90w thin film panels? Your advice would be highly appreciated.

this is a copy and paste below, there is more about this on the web.

Mono-, Poly-, Thin Film: What’s the Difference?

When researching solar photovoltaic panels you will probably see references to the materials that make up the wafers. Panels will not only be classified by their rated power output, but also by the wafer or cell material. Silicon is the main element in almost every panel on the market. However, the formation of the silicon determines its characteristics. Most wafers are made from either Monocrystalline or Polycrystalline silicon. Both are made from the element, but their molecular structures are slightly different. Amorphous silicon, commonly known as Thin Film, is a different beast all together and is also common, especially in commercial applications. Hopefully the following lists can help shed some light on the differences, pros and cons of these three materials and help you decide which one should you choose for your application

The newest of the technologies mentioned
Created using a process that makes sheets that can be rolled out like carpeting
Less efficient in the standard testing conditions than mono- or poly- crystalline
The cheapest of all the mentioned technologies, but because of the lower efficiency only cost effective if used for very large projects.
The most heat tolerant of all the mentioned materials. In fact, some studies show that efficiencies for thin film rise in high temperatures.
As this is a newer product, most installations are no more than 10 years old making its longevity and durability unknown.

Monocrystalline:

Oldest of the 3 technologies. The first solar cells ever made were monocrystalline
Molecular structure is formed from a single crystal (patterns throughout the structure will be identical)
Formed in a cylindrical mold and cut like slices off a loaf of bread. These cuts are squared off so wafers are usually squares with rounded corners.
Most expensive of the 3 materials.
The uniformity in the crystalline structure makes this the most efficient of the 3 materials under testing conditions.
Extremely durable technology. Many of the first cells ever made (in the late 1950s and 1960s) are still working today.
The least heat tolerant of the 3 materials. This means that panels made using monocrystalline wafers are subject to greater loss of power output in temperatures above 70 degrees.

Polycrystalline:

Most common for residential application.
Molecular structure built from more than one crystalline material.
Formed in square molds and cut like slices off a loaf of bread
Less expensive than monocrystalline cells but more expensive than thin film
Currently the most cost effective material for residential application
Slightly less efficient that monocrystalline cells, but new technologies are closing this gap.
Extremely durable technology. Many of the modules are still operating after 30 years
More heat tolerant than their monocrystalline counterparts but still have a slight drop in power output in extreme temperatures

Thin film (Amorphous Silicon):

The newest of the technologies mentioned
Created using a process that makes sheets that can be rolled out like carpeting
Less efficient in the standard testing conditions than mono- or poly- crystalline
The cheapest of all the mentioned technologies, but because of the lower efficiency only cost effective if used for very large projects.
The most heat tolerant of all the mentioned materials. In fact, some studies show that efficiencies for thin film rise in high temperatures.
As this is a newer product, most installations are no more than 10 years old making its longevity and durability unknown.

DUNKA: Goodday all being silently following this thread and I must say I am really impressed with the information gleaned. Being a learner please gurus in d house wanted yr thots/advice on ds hybrid installation:
1. 3.5 kva su kam inverter
2.4 12v 260ah Zenith batteries
3. 5 280w Suntech panels
4. Tristar mppt controller 60amps
How best would I get d maximum output from d panels or wld I need 2 increase dm? Also installer is saying dt thin film panels of 90w has a better efficiency dn poly or mono panels and is suggesting dt we go for ten 90w thin film panels? Your advice would be highly appreciated.

Pls, I need some assistance. I have a 3kva 24V Prostar inverter and it seems the fan cooler is no longer working thus making the inverter hot during charging. Apart from that, it works perfectly okay. I have decided not to use it till i get a solution from this honourable house. What can be done since my installer is no more? Any help is appreciable.

Talibanis: Pls, I need some assistance. I have a 3kva 24V Prostar inverter and it seems the fan cooler is no longer working thus making the inverter hot during charging. Apart from that, it works perfectly okay. I have decided not to use it till i get a solution from this honourable house. What can be done since my installer is no more? Any help is appreciable.

Google for prostar distributors in nigeria. If you find any, take it there. if there is none, just open it up and take a look at the fan, maybe something is stuck in between the fins. Most ivnerters do a short self test when first switched on, so you can test it like that. use a mutilmeter to test thevoltage going to the fan too (could be an AC or DC fan, most likely DC). if there's power, then try to change the fam with a similar one. you can get one from a computer desktop power pack of similar size.

Goodluck!!

Talibanis: Pls, I need some assistance. I have a 3kva 24V Prostar inverter and it seems the fan cooler is no longer working thus making the inverter hot during charging. Apart from that, it works perfectly okay. I have decided not to use it till i get a solution from this honourable house. What can be done since my installer is no more? Any help is appreciable.

Thank God you discovered early enough. I suggest you get a qualified technician since ur installer is no more. If you have little electronics experience, you can open the inverter and see whats harp ur self. Dont be suprised it could be just dust blocking the fan. Your best bet is to get a qualified person.

TotalGreen: hi,
this is strictly my view.
u setup is cool, u just need to add one more panel, i am assuming the 3.5kva is a 48volt system.
for 48volt the "Tristar mppt controller 60amps", u need to connect the panels in multiple of 3's, so u need 6panels, but a total of 12(3x4)panels should fill up your "Tristar mppt controller 60amps" finally before you buy a new one.

i dont share the same view on "thin film panels of 90w has a better efficiency dn poly or mono panels".. but thats just my take.. i would advice you browse the internet and you get your answers on this, not just one installer telling you what someone else probably had told him without backing... hope i dont sound hash.

just that with solar i always advice you start on the correct technical foundation..

Thanks a million. You gurus really the best.

TotalGreen: this is a copy and paste below, there is more about this on the web.

Mono-, Poly-, Thin Film: What’s the Difference?

When researching solar photovoltaic panels you will probably see references to the materials that make up the wafers. Panels will not only be classified by their rated power output, but also by the wafer or cell material. Silicon is the main element in almost every panel on the market. However, the formation of the silicon determines its characteristics. Most wafers are made from either Monocrystalline or Polycrystalline silicon. Both are made from the element, but their molecular structures are slightly different. Amorphous silicon, commonly known as Thin Film, is a different beast all together and is also common, especially in commercial applications. Hopefully the following lists can help shed some light on the differences, pros and cons of these three materials and help you decide which one should you choose for your application

The newest of the technologies mentioned
Created using a process that makes sheets that can be rolled out like carpeting
Less efficient in the standard testing conditions than mono- or poly- crystalline
The cheapest of all the mentioned technologies, but because of the lower efficiency only cost effective if used for very large projects.
The most heat tolerant of all the mentioned materials. In fact, some studies show that efficiencies for thin film rise in high temperatures.
As this is a newer product, most installations are no more than 10 years old making its longevity and durability unknown.

Monocrystalline:

Oldest of the 3 technologies. The first solar cells ever made were monocrystalline
Molecular structure is formed from a single crystal (patterns throughout the structure will be identical)
Formed in a cylindrical mold and cut like slices off a loaf of bread. These cuts are squared off so wafers are usually squares with rounded corners.
Most expensive of the 3 materials.
The uniformity in the crystalline structure makes this the most efficient of the 3 materials under testing conditions.
Extremely durable technology. Many of the first cells ever made (in the late 1950s and 1960s) are still working today.
The least heat tolerant of the 3 materials. This means that panels made using monocrystalline wafers are subject to greater loss of power output in temperatures above 70 degrees.

Polycrystalline:

Most common for residential application.
Molecular structure built from more than one crystalline material.
Formed in square molds and cut like slices off a loaf of bread
Less expensive than monocrystalline cells but more expensive than thin film
Currently the most cost effective material for residential application
Slightly less efficient that monocrystalline cells, but new technologies are closing this gap.
Extremely durable technology. Many of the modules are still operating after 30 years
More heat tolerant than their monocrystalline counterparts but still have a slight drop in power output in extreme temperatures

Thin film (Amorphous Silicon):

The newest of the technologies mentioned
Created using a process that makes sheets that can be rolled out like carpeting
Less efficient in the standard testing conditions than mono- or poly- crystalline
The cheapest of all the mentioned technologies, but because of the lower efficiency only cost effective if used for very large projects.
The most heat tolerant of all the mentioned materials. In fact, some studies show that efficiencies for thin film rise in high temperatures.
As this is a newer product, most installations are no more than 10 years old making its longevity and durability unknown.

Thank you for d informative write up

[quote author=abunafiu]. . Ikeja n Alaba sales outlet precisely ... Simply call now

fikfik:

Yes, thanks Uncle G. but I also remeber a pix from akiannade (or someone's) installation where he used breakers on both the +ve and -ve lines from battery bank to charge controller. youe cut outs are only on the +ve lines and you tied -ve directly. Whats best practice on this (without being wasteful)?

@all
Concerning the combiner (for hybrid charging systems), what are the things to note here. I see Uncel g's and compare it with the recent one from feasy1's but it seems he just connected everything to inverter wihtout really using a combiner (pls correct me if wrong) which seems neater but is it the right thing to do. Please advise me on rules for cable length in this whole multi-charging system too.

Thanks!

fikfik,

wiring dc circuits is a little bit different from ac. while in alternating current circuits (ac) the current changes direction every half a second, in direct current circuits (dc) the current travels in only one direction, i.e from positive to negative. therefore, when installing circuit breakers or cut-out fuses as the case may be, you generally install only on the positive side of the circuit for dc. there is really no need to install breakers on the negative side since current travels only from positive to negative. on ac circuits however, you must install at both ends since the current reverses directions every split second.

hope this clarifies?

about my wiring method, i must admit its not the neatest you can find around but that being the case it really shows how a hybrid circuit should be wired. remember though that this is a diy initiative as compared to others who enlist the services of professionals to do their job.

ok, the combiner was introduced to tie in all charging currents coming from either the inverter and charge controller such that each string of batteries receive their own fair share of charge. that way, you eliminate the common failings of parallel battery banks which happens when some batteries don't get enough charge or are discharged more deeply compared to others. in such cases, premature battery death is usually the result.

going forward, it is my intention to re-arrange my wiring and give it a more professional look. this will be addressed in my next upgrade.

for cable lengths, the rule of thumb is to always install your inverter and charge controller as close to the battery bank as practically possible. the longer the distance, the more likelihood for voltage drop and power lose. two feet or less for inverter and battery is what you should remember.

Oga George, to add to your comments about the dc circuit breakers, there are some models that are actually made with two poles, that is, one pole for the positive and the second side for the negative.

But these models usually come with polarity. If the polarity is reversed, the dc voltage will not be passesd through to the load or connected equipment.

Some of the ac circuit breakers in the market are rated for both ac and dc power although the voltage and power that the circuit breaker can handle in dc is much lower than ac.

DUNKA: Goodday all being silently following this thread and I must say I am really impressed with the information gleaned. Being a learner please gurus in d house wanted yr thots/advice on ds hybrid installation:
1. 3.5 kva su kam inverter
2.4 12v 260ah Zenith batteries
3. 5 280w Suntech panels
4. Tristar mppt controller 60amps
How best would I get d maximum output from d panels or wld I need 2 increase dm? Also installer is saying dt thin film panels of 90w has a better efficiency dn poly or mono panels and is suggesting dt we go for ten 90w thin film panels? Your advice would be highly appreciated.

@ DUNKA,

What is the cost of the 280W Suntech Panels?

George_D:

fikfik,

wiring dc circuits is a little bit different from ac. while in alternating current circuits (ac) the current changes direction every half a second, in direct current circuits (dc) the current travels in only one direction, i.e from positive to negative. therefore, when installing circuit breakers or cut-out fuses as the case may be, you generally install only on the positive side of the circuit for dc. there is really no need to install breakers on the negative side since current travels only from positive to negative. on ac circuits however, you must install at both ends since the current reverses directions every split second.

hope this clarifies?

about my wiring method, i must admit its not the neatest you can find around but that being the case it really shows how a hybrid circuit should be wired. remember though that this is a diy initiative as compared to others who enlist the services of professionals to do their job.

ok, the combiner was introduced to tie in all charging currents coming from either the inverter and charge controller such that each string of batteries receive their own fair share of charge. that way, you eliminate the common failings of parallel battery banks which happens when some batteries don't get enough charge or are discharged more deeply compared to others. in such cases, premature battery death is usually the result.

going forward, it is my intention to re-arrange my wiring and give it a more professional look. this will be addressed in my next upgrade.

for cable lengths, the rule of thumb is to always install your inverter and charge controller as close to the battery bank as practically possible. the longer the distance, the more likelihood for voltage drop and power lose. two feet or less for inverter and battery is what you should remember.

Thanks Uncle George and uncle Bode.

Concerning cable length again. should i maintain the same cable length from the battery banks (2 x 48volts) to the combiner? One bank is close to the combiner while the other isnt that close (but not that far too). Should I use lthe longer cable length on the one cose to the combiner too?

I also need advise on location. i live in a small block of 4 flats and have my inverter and one battery bank in the dining section of my living room. I'm want to add the combiner in the rear balcony (same wall as dining section) and another 48V battery bank. What are your thoughts on this. For security purposes too, should i put the combiner outside on the balcony (we live upstairs) or inside?

thanks!

BUTONEDAY:

@ DUNKA,

What is the cost of the 280W Suntech Panels?

I got a quote of 70, 000.00 per panel from Mr. VITUS when i called him on d phone. gurus kindly advise if dt is a good price or can I get better.

BUTONEDAY:

@ DUNKA,

What is the cost of the 280W Suntech Panels?

I got a quote of 70, 000.00 per panel from Mr. VITUS when i called him on d phone. gurus kindly advise if dt is a good price or can I get a better deal.