Demmzy15:
If that's the case, all Saudi men should be gays then!

AlBaqir:


# That's western law not God's. Allah give conditions to His before implementation of punishment. Don't overlook that.

Empiree:
Answering tintingz, with respect to gays in saudi. Writer says further.

So clearly, they don't even talk about "homogene" bcus it doesn't seem to exist. Homosexual in Arabia is caused as a result of EXTREME SEPARATION. Got this? .

ikupakuti:


Yeah! Extreme segregation is one of the major factor. There is an hadith (I‘ll find it) where the holy prophet (saw) related the story of a certain people to that effect. Thats why its so rampant in boarding schools, prisons etc.

Empiree:
And what makes you think those scientists are not pro gay just as much as the Christian is accused of being anti LGBT?

AlBaqir:


# That's another topic on its own. However, in my view, here's it:

* God and His actions is all good completely.

* Evil does not exist as an entity. What we term evil is the rejection of good which the entire universe centre on. For example, if you keep by the law of gravity, you continue to enjoy good. The moment you break that law (rejected it), you break yourself or die.


* Quran says, "God do not wrong man, it is man who (used to) wrong himself". In another ayah, it is said, " corruption on the earth and sea is as a result of man's handiwork, and they shall taste from their handiwork ". Studies have shown that 75% of death are man's handiwork. Here we might ask about flood, tsunami, earthquake etc. While these are natural " disasters" as we termed it, man trigger it sometimes by trying to break the laws of nature.

* Satan: You think if there is no Satan, man cannot commit sins or evil? Man is capable to commit whatever by his freewill. Satan is like man with intellect and freewill. He decided to go against his Lord. However, Satan can only invite to what is bad but cannot compel to do the act.

# Trials and tests: these are not evil. They are designed to make us good better, outward and inward.

# Like I said its surely another topic on its own.

tintingz:
There are Christian scientists that does not go against giving gays their rights(even if they hold the position that there is no gay gene) but that Dr. Paul R. McHugh is well known to be the only anti-gay right.

Empiree:
how did you even manage to think like this.

tintingz:
Why not give us scientific research from Quran and hadith that conclude homosexual is not genetic? provide experiments from those books not some imaginary claims. Not everyone has a barbaric thinking like you folks.

Demmzy15:
No be you accept that conclusion. There are many factors that causes some men to see themselves as gays and segregation isn't one of them.

When a child is born, for the first 2 years of his life, he gets the attention of his mom mostly. After this, he begins to get attention of his father. A situation whereby his dad doesn't give him this attention tends to affect him, this is why there's a wisdom behind man and woman getting married and bringing up the child!

Empiree:
..

MrOlai:


Albaqir wants to smuggle homosexuality into Qur'an here!

Allah(SWT) is talking about something completely different, he(Albaqir) is relating the verse to homosexuality!

Beware of Albaqir! He is an agent of destruction!

Demmzy15:
No be you accept that conclusion. There are many factors that causes some men to see themselves as gays and segregation isn't one of them.

When a child is born, for the first 2 years of his life, he gets the attention of his mom mostly. After this, he begins to get attention of his father. A situation whereby his dad doesn't give him this attention tends to affect him, this is why there's a wisdom behind man and woman getting married and bringing up the child!

udatso:


As for you Alba.qir, ikup.akuti, mr.olai newn.as and other brothers have already concluded this in their earlier posts. They have given more than enough. You should know by now that your argument for gays holds no water. If you think Allah didn't make all consideration before giving this hadd, you can take it up with Him.

Your statement about umar (R. A) without concrete evidence passes a very stern message why every true believer should run away from you.

udatso:

I have told those who cared to listen. The earlier you run from him, the better

udatso:

If you were a mu'min, you would have understood that it's not about genetics. It's about what Allah has decreed so to hell with genetics if it opposes Allah. You really don't get it. Allah in His infinite mercies considers all(past present and future) before giving His judgements. Are you more knowledgeable than Allah?
If you claim to be then I can only pray for you, if you arent, then stop talking about genetics Opposing established Laws by Allah. It's about time you stop this madness. Even a Christian wouldn't challenge God's knowledge.

AlBaqir:


# Em.piree, two question please.


You brought up a factor that/that can affect someone to be attracted to gay'ism/lesbianism; extreme separation of men and women. Note, I agree to this because I have seen practical examples myself.


Now, in your own opinion, should these affected people be taken out and beheaded (or whatever punishment is prescribed) as one hadith says, "once you see them, kill them" or they deserve a chance to live whereby the cause of their predicament be remove and proper rehabilitation should be given to them?


# Second, you gave us a bit of your storyline. Add that your story to the extreme stories in the link I asked you guys to read (an Egyptian and Iranian). Don't you think if not because of the fear of God, and perhaps "Muslim society" you (and they) are/were in your case might be exactly like the worst cases of the western gay?

AlBaqir:


# Empiree, two question please.


You brought up a factor that/that can affect someone to be attracted to gay'ism/lesbianism; extreme separation of men and women. Note, I agree to this because I have seen practical examples myself.


Now, in your own opinion, should these affected people be taken out and beheaded (or whatever punishment is prescribed) as one hadith says, "once you see them, kill them" or they deserve a chance to live whereby the cause of their predicament be remove and proper rehabilitation should be given to them?


# Second, you gave us a bit of your storyline. Add that your story to the extreme stories in the link I asked you guys to read (an Egyptian and Iranian). Don't you think if not because of the fear of God, and perhaps "Muslim society" you (and they) are/were in your case might be exactly like the worst cases of the western gay?

Empiree:
First, it seems we all thinking from different angles. First, base on scripture. Second, base on society. I never for once believed they exist in Arabia until perhaps recent months. And my thought was that they are those men and women screaming for "my rights, our rights" etc. That's, those influenced by western culture. I only got to realize extreme segregation could also affect it bcus u made me remembered the lady in 2014 who was extremely separated from males by her parents and they are not even Muslim. But this is not the case largely in Western culture. West approach in effrontery to Divine Law which is what is FORBIDDEN.

West believe it their rights mentality and they took step further to legalize it and issue licences. This, ofc, crossed the line. It is this movement that tend to cook up bogus scientific evidence to back up this silly act. So this deserves to be punished bcus they do it out of gross violation of Divine Law. This is the common gay type we are talking about.

The second type that i referenced and that of Saudi, it is like a thief living in abject poverty and he steals. Sharia says to review economy situation of the accused right?. Fix his problems and it is only after this, if he persists in stealing, then, punishment is carried out. So there is due process. But it seems to me that those gays in Saudi are claiming and pushing for their "right". This is crossing the line. You can't claim your rights on something that is clearly in violation of the scripture. It like claiming your right to commit illegal intercourse whether it is consented or not. I would suggest govt relaxes segregation law. There should be moderation. We can't live btw the two extremes. West allow free mixing and we know and see many consequences of this. Extreme segregation also has its side effect.

So bottom line is, gay is Saudi appears to be claiming rights just like in the West. Hence, punishment is due. They rather go for some sort of rehab than claiming stupid rights. If they get arrested and killed by law, they are OYO

AlBaqir:




# Second, I challenge you and whoever, to bring Allah's explicit punishment (hadd) on "homosexuality". Please am sick of the people of Nuh. That is an entire qawm, and it took a long donkey years before Allah wiped them off when they persisted in their sin. Today, in Islamic countries, the punishment for homosexuality varies due to different ijtihad. What your hadith says is " if you caught them in the act, bring them out and kill them". Some choose beheading, some choose burning alive, some even go to the extent of passing red-hot iron via. their anus and leave them to die via bleeding (e.g Iraq), etc.

AlBaqir:



# Point of correction, and please let it sink down for the record. I do not have any argument for gay. My points is more of effeminates which I believe could lead to been gay or lesbian. I believe they need help.

# Second, I challenge you and whoever, to bring Allah's explicit punishment (hadd) on "homosexuality". Please am sick of the people of Nuh. That is an entire qawm, and it took a long donkey years before Allah wiped them off when they persisted in their sin. Today, in Islamic countries, the punishment for homosexuality varies due to different ijtihad. What your hadith says is " if you caught them in the act, bring them out and kill them". Some choose beheading, some choose burning alive, some even go to the extent of passing red-hot iron via. their anus and leave them to die via bleeding (e.g Iraq), etc.

Today, I as an individual still challenge you all on stoning to death where the accused will be buried half-way to the waist, tied up and stoned to death. Qur'an mentions punishment for Zina, where's your "stoning to death"?

# As per your beloved Umar Ibn al-Khattab, you should never be the one asking me evidence. Not you. Have you finished your research yet on our little last dialogue where you pull away for time to research?

I remember how " shut up" all of you were when I posted the way Umar used to treat female slaves, they dare not wearing hijab, and they walk in his yard serving guest with their hairs and breas.t waggling. These are your ahadith not mine. Yet, the diehard among you will try to defend what is not. Wallahi you don't want to see records I have on your beloved master Umar.

# Okay, you assumed they are fools with no aql?

tintingz:
Saudi Arabia laws(sharia) is the cause of creating homosexuality in their country if extreme separation is the factor and they are killing homos on what they caused. Irony.

tintingz:
Lol, So what about homosexual among animals? What makes some animals gays?

Science have found genes that could be gay gene, and not only that, gender dysporia is also a disorder that gays are facing, how does "Allah" give cure for them? Are harmaphrodites opposed by Allah creation? Who created them? You need to be logical when you wanna argue with me, you can't just give some imaginary claims that a god has given a law against homos.

Killing gay is the solution? Is it part of Allah's law to kill gays? Oh sorry he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of gay pratice why didn't the merciful all-knowing god destroy ancient Greeks that practice gay?

Don't be surprise when all scientists agreed there is gay gene in the future, I wanna see how you folks will react, people once taught abiku(child death) is a curse from some entity until scientists revealed the genetic cause .

Your religious book need to give scientific evidence to prove there is no gay gene.

AlBaqir:



# I never ever remember where I made mention of western gay or their right. Those are what you guys keep on assuming just like you are assuming the sexual acts of homos instead of individuals and factor that caused it (effeminates). Please, you guys should stop assuming and do not put what people did not say in his name. That's cruel. Only shameless engage in that.{

Empiree:
I think you missed the point though. Islamic govts do have right to implement punishment. There was no set of rule for them in the time of Nabi nuh(as). Allah wiped them off the face of the earth was an indication that is fasad. Fasad is something that not only corrupts but destroys. Should the islamic countries leave them alone until punishment comes where both involved and those who do not pay the price?.

Empiree:

Claim that there is no precise punishment for homosexual is quite lame. Quran is silent on the issue does not in any way makes it halal. Homosexual is anti-procreation and spread of more diseases. It is fvking disgusting. And i have cited hadith which speaks of destruction of arabs should there be prevalence of evil. That evil is manifest in Arab world today and it is not only gay by the way. So expect destructions of them which is around the corner. The worst part is that if they are silly enough to legalize it.

Empiree:
ofc, this should first approach for anyone bcus the nonsense emerged from their to begin with. So you cant really blame us. It is not a practice known in the muslim world. As you could see when they raised the issue with Africans, they were faced with very strong backlash. So you made it sound like you condone the practice initially.


How old is the practice up north?

AlBaqir:



# Nobody is talking of Islamic government leaving them alone.The factor and cause of that evil acts need proper identification, and solution should be established.

# By now, you ought to have get the underlined out of your head. Please stop making such statements. You as a person, why do you reject "stoning to death"? Was it not because it can't be found in the Qur'an? And what you believed in [flogging] is less in punishment than "stoning" which hadith established. Homosexuality is worse than Zina. Any punishment for it is in controversial hadiths just like stoning.

AlBaqir:


# Says who? It is the fear of sharia that surpress them coming public. Turkey is a Muslim country, they don't use sharia. They record highest homosexual relationships in Muslim world. Most of homos that ran away from Saudi, Iran, etc are fleeing to Turkey. Muslims, wake up. We need scientists of high repute, psychologist, psychiatrists, etc to present serious problems to the Mullahs, and via it fatwas should be established.

AlBaqir:


# All those salafs interpretations are their own understanding. None of them quoted Nabi. And they did that based on what they know and what they see. That's why they themselves do not have a uniform interpretations. Unfortunately, none of them made mention of effeminates (male) which I made mention of. You don't see them attracted to women. These people have tendency of becoming gay.

AlBaqir:



# Point of correction, and please let it sink down for the record. I do not have any argument for gay. My points is more of effeminates which I believe could lead to been gay or lesbian. I believe they need help.


# Second, I challenge you and whoever, to bring Allah's explicit punishment (hadd) on "homosexuality". Please am sick of the people of Nuh. That is an entire qawm, and it took a long donkey years before Allah wiped them off when they persisted in their sin. Today, in Islamic countries, the punishment for homosexuality varies due to different ijtihad. What your hadith says is " if you caught them in the act, bring them out and kill them". Some choose beheading, some choose burning alive, some even go to the extent of passing red-hot iron via. their anus and leave them to die via bleeding (e.g Iraq), etc.


Today, I as an individual still challenge you all on stoning to death where the accused will be buried half-way to the waist, tied up and stoned to death. Qur'an mentions punishment for Zina, where's your "stoning to death"?


# As per your beloved Umar Ibn al-Khattab, you should never be the one asking me evidence. Not you. Have you finished your research yet on our little last dialogue where you pull away for time to research? I remember how " shut up" all of you were when I posted the way Umar used to treat female slaves, they dare not wearing hijab, and they walk in his yard serving guest with their hairs and breas.t waggling. These are your ahadith not mine. Yet, the diehard among you will try to defend what is not. Wallahi you don't want to see records I have on your beloved master Umar.

udatso:

So, has it gotten to a point where we now compare our moralities with that of animals?

Are hermaphrodites gays? And here is someone who wants to talk logic.

Oh mine is to take what Allah has decreed. I am not here to defend his laws to you and neither is He answerable to you. You not okay with the laws, take it up with him. And by the way why didn't you answer my questions?

Did Islam teach such? I also want to see how you will react when scientist reveal that there is no gay gene.

Maybe to an atheist. The last time I checked, you still identified yourself as a Muslim